Are protesters using the term Zionist in place of Jew in an effort not to sound anti-semitic?

[ripcord]

You have to admit that Zionist are entering the camp sounds much better than Jews are entering the camp. But how exactly can they tell by looking who supports the Zionist movement?

[elleng]

1. That's a fair assessment, imo.

I tend to avoid both terms, and would avoid the issue entirely if I could do so, in good conscience.

[Prairie Gates]

2. Ay yay yay

[Eko]

3. Maybe, maybe not.

There was not enough information on that to come to a conclusion either way. How can they tell by looking? Maybe they know of that person, or they were carrying a sign or something. Once again not enough information on that to come to a conclusion either way.

[ripcord]

5. That is a fair point that they might know the person

[Eko]

6. Or they could just be anti-semitic assholes.

Just not enough info.

[ripcord]

7. I thought I read that the person was identified by a piece of jewelry

[Mossfern]

8. It was a Magen David

That would identify the person as Jewish, not as a Zionist.

[Eko]

10. If so then the person would prob be anti-Semitic.

Can you share where you heard this please?

[Mossfern]

11. It was from an article I posted the other day

I'll look for the link and post it here on edit.

[Eko]

13. Thanks

[Mossfern]

14. Here it is

better in a post of its own.


https://www.allsides.com/news/2024-04-23-1319/education-unreality-columbia-s-liberated-zone

It was an article in the Atlantic

As the crowd draws closer, Schwalb and her friends pivot and leave. Even the next morning, she’s baffled at how they were targeted. Save for a friend who wore a Star of David necklace, none wore identifying clothing. “Maybe,” she says, “they smelled the Zionists on us.”

[Eko]

15. The person who said that is Jessica Schwalb.

You can go to the archive of the article here. https://archive.is/20240426025404/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/columbia-university-protests-palestine/678159/ and is a Freelance Reporter and Documentarian who is also a student there. It seems her posts on twitter favor a hard right viewpoint on the situation where she re-posted such things as "Anti-American Congresswoman Ilhan Omar" and "Let’s stop referring the insurrection underway on our university campuses as Pro Palestinian protests. They are not pro Palestinian. They are anti-Jewish and anti-American. What you see are Pro Hamas operatives exploiting gullible students." and posted "How about you donate this surplus of food to Gaza not Ivy League students. They order catering, have a variety of cigarettes (Newports or Marlboros?) & walk to Joe’s Coffee barefoot to get their $7 latte." I think they have an idea of who she was in the first place and she is definitely against the protests. Zionist? Kinda seems that way.

[betsuni]

17. Schwalb is right, the creepy "chanting like automatons" at a few other students to repel them is freaky.

If they're that scared, they should do what Dr. Van Helsing did in "Dracula," make a magic holy circle so the vampires can't get in.

[Mossfern]

25. So you are assuming that she was lying when she said that the only ID was a Magen David?

One of the leaders of the protest could have walked up to her and her companions and politely asked them to leave. It doesn't seem that her or the people she was with were threatening anyone in any way.

The intimidating behavior of the "hive" was way over the top. What did they think she was going to do? Write about them?

[Eko]

44. No, I am assuming that they knew who she was.

[Eko]

9. I had not heard that.

Can you share where you heard it from if possible?

[Ms. Toad]

4. Both sides are mischaracterizing the other to gain political favor. n/t

[LexVegas]

12. Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. nt

[Shermanator]

16. Not all Jews are Zionists

And I think they equate Zionism with Jewish nationalism with nationalism meaning separating your own nation's interests from the interests of other nations and the international community.

[tritsofme]

18. If you believe Israel has a right to exist, I hate to break it you, you're a Zionist.

If you think the Jewish state should be eliminated, you are an anti-Zionist.

It’s actually pretty simple.

[elleng]

21. Wrong.

Wrong.

[Mossfern]

26. Usually when someone says "wrong"

they give the correct answer.

[SoFlaBro]

39. Or they just wander around like they have the fucking moral goddamn high ground telling people how "wrong" they are.

[ripcord]

36. Not wrong

[tritsofme]

46. Nope, let me clarify. What I said is 100% correct. If you think Israel has a right to exist, you are a Zionist. Period.

[sir pball]

48. Yes, you are wrong!

I know Wiki isn't exactly a Reliable Primary Source but it's certainly a good starting point.

"The common denominator among all modern Zionists is a claim to Palestine, a land traditionally known in Jewish writings as the Land of Israel ("Eretz Israel&quot as a national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for Jewish national self-determination."

Now, there's a lot of different types of Zionism, not all of which share the armed-expansionist-colonialist philosophy of Revisionist Zionism and Likud, but that's a conversation for after you've learned what basic Zionism is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism

[betsuni]

19. Yes.

[sarisataka]

20. Absolutely

[LeftInTX]

22. I felt the guy that got banned from Columbia was using it in place of "white people".

However, when white people use it, they are referring to Israel, the media, corporate elites and Jews.

The word Zion is interesting: It rhymes with "lion" (which means strength), but with the Z it sounds even more powerful. Therefore it can be used as a slur against people that are perceived to be powerful. Instead of "those white people are ruining everything", maybe "those Zionists are ruining everything" just sounds flashier?

And in this context, it is also combined with a slur another groups of powerful people: cops
https://www.jns.org/activists-call-jews-zionist-pigs-at-berkeley-council-meeting/

[betsuni]

24. Atlantic article, group LionLez: "White Jewish people are today and always have been oppressors of all brown people."

Some are really trying to make this happen.

[W_HAMILTON]

23. I'm very much a layperson when it comes to this, but...

...yes, that's exactly how I view it.

And I'm sure a lot of others do as well.

[marble falls]

27. I'm confused: are these antisemite?

https://www.myjewishlearning.com › article › ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist
Ultra-Orthodox & Anti-Zionist | My Jewish Learning
The anti-Zionist world-view of the ultra-Orthodox groups Neturei Karta and Satmar Hasidism perceives Zionism and the estab­lishment of the State of Israel as an anti-messianic act, conceived and born from sin. These groups vigorously deny the very legiti­macy of the collective political return to the Holy Land

[Mossfern]

29. You're using a small extremist sect

to prove your point?

[marble falls]

30. And you broad brush paint all antizionists as antisemites. Now then: are antizionist Jews antisemetic? ...

... Are you sure only ultra conservative Jews are the only Jews who are antizionist?

[Mossfern]

31. Did I say that?

Please explain to me what to you an anti-Zionist is, what an anti-Zionist believes.
We can start the conversation from there.

What do you believe a Zionist is in present day terms, not historically.
After all this is 2024, not 1948.

[Mossfern]

32. I don't know.

Can you provide some information?

One can be a Zionist and still be against the current government of Israel and their actions as expressed in the anti Netanyahu marches in Israel.

[LexVegas]

37. There are people that dig up pictures of black people waving the stars and bars...

to try to show the flag isn't racist. There is no arguing with it. It's pointless.

[Mossfern]

38. False equivalency...

Israeli protesters against Likud.

[LexVegas]

41. Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. nt

[NickB79]

45. About as relevant as Michael the Black Man at Trump rallies

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_the_Black_Man

Or Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks.

[MistakenLamb]

50. read what they think should happen to Goyim before you cheer them

[DFW]

28. They had specially polarized glasses made just for that purpose

Put them on, and you can instantly tell who is a “Zionist” and who is not.

[sop]

33. Hardline Likudnik might be more accurate than Zionist.

It's a form of revisionist Zionism that emphasizes a national security policy based on strong military force and the principle of aggressive preventive action to any potential attacks on State of Israel. Likudniks are reluctant to negotiate with neighbors whom they believe continue to seek the destruction of the Jewish state. Netenyahu is the chairman of the Likud party.

[comradebillyboy]

34. So how many "Hardline Likudniks" are undergrads at Colombia?

[sop]

35. Not many I would guess.

[ismnotwasm]

40. Yes

I was watch a Jewish organization ad on anti-semitism on TikTok. The comments were horrific.

[RandiFan1290]

42. No

[mcar]

43. "Zionist" appears to be akin to "antifa"

How do you tell if one is one?

[LeftInTX]

47. The term "Zionism", "Zionist" etc was banned by our local university's protest.

Also the terms "Israel" and chanting "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" were prohibited due because they qualified as "antisemitic hate speech."

Allowing the use of Israel in a pro Palestinian protest, obviously would have been a negative connotation of Israel

They also were forbidden to chant in Arabic. I guess there were fears of "death to America"...LOL

[MistakenLamb]

49. the person allegedly had a magen David necklace that's their identifier

visibly being Jewish

[JohnSJ]

51. Yes. Zionism is support for the existence of the Jewish State of Israel. It is NOT against a two state solution,

or a separate Palestinian state.

Hamas on the other hand is not only against a Jewish state of Israel, but the elimination of all Jews from the world.

Hamas is a branch from the Muslim Brotherhood, the group responsible for the murder of Sadat, and countless acts of terrorism.