Student worker in Chinese iPhone factory explains why manufacturing jobs aren't coming back to to US

[workinclasszero]

Student who worked in Chinese iPhone factory explains why manufacturing jobs aren't coming back to the U.S.
NYU Wagner student Dejian Zeng spent last summer building iPhones for Pegatron
Zeng's trip was organized by NYU and China Labor Watch
Zeng said he doesn't think it'll be possible to manufacture iPhones by hand in the US
Todd Haselton | @robotodd 33 Mins Ago

Zeng walked CNBC through his decision to spend six weeks in a factory working 12 hours shifts Monday through Saturday, mostly during the night, and what he discovered along the way.


Now that he's seen how a Chinese iPhone factory operates, Zeng doesn't believe that Apple or other companies will be able to build competitive factories in the U.S., no matter what politicians want them to do.

"The first thing I can think of from a labor perspective is that the wages are unacceptable for American workers. So, in the factories, I was getting paid about 3100 yuan, or $450, per month. I don't think American workers can accept those kind of wages based on living conditions and prices here," Zeng said.

"Even if they relocate factories to the U.S. they'd replace workers with robots," Zeng said. He said Pegatron already uses robots to apply cameras to iPhones, and to drop batteries into the devices. Robots, Zeng said, are more precise than human workers, and precision is particularly important for those two components.

The only reason human labor is still used, he believes, is because it's cheaper in some cases.

"We are using labor in China instead of a machine because labor is cheaper than maintaining machines. If you relocate factories to the States you need to think of how to manage the workers," Zeng explained.

Meanwhile, Zeng also said that factories are starting to appear in other countries where human labor costs are even cheaper than in China.

"China is developing. Prices for food and housing are increasing, so you have to increase wages accordingly. The government set minimum wages, and wages are going up, so [the] cost for labor is going up. Other places like Bangladesh, the wages are really low. They're shutting down factories in China and moving to where labor costs are lower. Factories used to be in America, then they moved to China, and now they're moving over to Vietnam and Bangladesh."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/30/iphone-factory-observer-why-trump-cant-bring-manufacturing-jobs-back.html

[HoneyBadger]

1. Eventually all manufacturing will move to Africa in the quest for slave like labor rates

When I worked in the Border Zone, NAFTA workers got well under $50/week for 6 days of work. This included housing, transportation, health care and food. A good enough package that it attracted quality workers from the entire country. Mexico had health care for all, but even the factory workers did not trust it. Food in the factory was damn good.

The other thing about running a plant away from the US is that you can hire and fire as you wish.

Once China gets shut out of manufacturing jobs, they are going to revolt.

[workinclasszero]

4. Free trade has always been a race to the bottom IMO

It will end in slavery, robots, world revolution or a guaranteed living wage and health care for all.

The vulture capitalists can take their pick.

[TheFrenchRazor]

37. precisely; there is absolutely no other outcome for free trade. it is not "good for everybody." nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. No. Binary thinking.

"All manufacturing"

Most manufacturing will be done by robots in the future. Robots work best in countries like Germany and Scandinavia where education is valued and the work force is skilled. Lots will be done in the USA, by robots.

[HoneyBadger]

10. Build it and they will come

It is easier to develop an infrastructure from scratch with government that is hungry for it. Once upon a time made in Japan meant low quality. Not anymore.

[Xipe Totec]

11. Robots don't eat burgers

When all products are produced by robots, who will buy those products? With what wages?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Yes, it is a major social change that can be & MUST be anticipated & PLANNED for.

Wealth and income inequality is a huge problem already, and it will get worse before it gets better.

The coming changes of robots and AI (sometimes AI on its own) will make huge changes in society whether we are ready or not. They are coming and pandering to coal miners in Pennsylvania is not going to stop it.

We should be ready and we can be ready.

[Xipe Totec]

22. Hard to visualize a society where capital and labor are meaningless concepts.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. Hard, because they will never be meaningless and never should be meaningless. . . nt

[Xipe Totec]

42. ...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. Universal Basic Income does not make capital or labor "meaningless". . . . . . nt

[Xipe Totec]

44. How does labor remain meaningful when there is none? nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. There will always be labor & capital. To believe otherwise is to believe in a ridiculous fantasy. nt

[Xipe Totec]

46. what a thought terminating clich nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

47. Actually, the all-or-nothing belief in it becoming meaningless is where your thought terminated.

You are indulging in a binary-thinking fallacy.

Not even the video, which is a good one, makes your all-or-nothing claim.
No serious person backing Universal Basic Income, which is a good idea, makes your claim.

For one thing, there will be people need to debug the machines. And when there are machines to debug the machines, there will be people needed to debug the debugging machines.

If you think there will arrive a day when there will never be a need for labor, read the "The Machine Stops", a short story by E.M. Forster of "A Room with a View" and "A Passage to India" fame.

[Yavin4]

20. That's why China is spending billions to develop infrastructure in Africa.

You need roads, bridges, airports, ports, etc. to move items around.

[Adrahil]

31. Why do you think...

China is investing so much in East Africa. Cheap labor.

[HoneyBadger]

2. And it does not just apply to manufacturing

Once Americans realize that Skyping a $30k Indian doctor is faster and more convenient that waiting in a room full of coughing people for a lower quality $300k US doctor, that is all she wrote.

[workinclasszero]

12. There is already dental and medical tourism

See here: http://www.medicaltourismassociation.com/en/medical-tourism-faq-s.html

[Lee-Lee]

3. Even if they come here and use automated assembly lines

People have to build those machines. People have to program those machines. People have to maintain and repair those machines. People have to operate those machines.

So even if the machine replaces 10 people doing a step in the process, it took several people to build it, a software engineer to program it and adapt the programming every time a change is made, a person to operate the machine and people on every shift to maintain and repair the machine.

You are replacing 10 full time low skill jobs with 2 full time higher skilled jobs (operation and maintenance) and economic impact on many other jobs (building the machine, programming it). Plus the building physically located here will need to be built and maintained by Americans, will need power generated in the US, will need supplies delivered to it and finished product taken away by Americans.

Even if we get the jobs back here in an automated robot heavy facility that still creates lots of jobs. Just because it won't be as many as if everything is done by hand doesn't make it any less a good idea.

[workinclasszero]

5. Until those high paid skilled Americans train their low paid no benefits H-1B replacements

The republican capitalists are one step ahead of you friend.

[onlyadream]

6. They'll make the job requirements so impossible

They will be justified. This is a big problem.

[Orrex]

7. This is the fundamental and unavoidable goal of capitalism (nt)

[not fooled]

9. Yes

And the fundamental problem for U.S. workers. The problem is capitalism itself. And, despite decades of propaganda trying to con Americans into believing that they are capitalists, the vast, vast majority are workers. Only a tiny percent are true capitalists who benefit from policies that drive the majority of the population into unemployment and poverty.

[workinclasszero]

14. And yet...every working class voting republican...

...votes like they have a billion dollars in the bank.

Go figure.

That's where the racism and dominunist theocracy comes into play I think.

[Orrex]

18. Yes, they imagine that the "darkie" will take their honest, hard-earned American billions

[workinclasszero]

19. Right

The Koch bros, Drumpf and brother Pat Robertson must get a huge laugh out of these fucking idiots I bet.

[Mosby]

13. this is why we need fair trade/tariffs

[TheFrenchRazor]

38. correct; there is no way around it. nt

[Kablooie]

15. Robots will replace workers but they will also be cheaper to maintain in other countries.

As long as other countries are willing to work for less than Americans, jobs won't come back here.

[workinclasszero]

16. Hell there's already countries willing to work for less than the Chinese

per the article so where does that leave the eager for a middle class life American iphone factory worker?

Walmart greeter? McDonald burger flipper?

[dogandturtlemom]

21. Taxes

What is ignored is that these same phones are sold here in the US for $500-700 each at huge profit, for which Apple pays a pittance. We on the other hand are paying substantial sales tax for these, as well as subsidizing Apple with our own tax payments.

[workinclasszero]

23. Yeah I wonder what the markup on an iphone is?

It must be huge!

[Mosby]

36. Right now Apple's net profit is 21%

And they are sitting on almost 61 billion in cash, most of which is offshored.

[BSdetect]

40. Its more like 210 billion.

[Yavin4]

24. The demand side of global trade always gets overlooked.

You can buy an iPhone whenever you want for around $500. That's not possible without global trade in particular, Chinese mfg. Until robots can build the phone entirely without people, those jobs cannot come back to the U.S.

I'm sorry, but the post-WWII economy of the 1950s where you could get a middle class union paying job with less than a high school education is never going to happen again.

[workinclasszero]

25. Well if that's true then there is no hope for liberal democracy in America

Who is a young working class kid going to support and vote for?

The lying demagogue, neo nazi republican promising to turn back the clock and bring back, say, coal mining jobs that pay 50 grand plus and bennies or the truthful democratic candidate that says, sorry folks that's just the way it is?

We are doomed if these conditions are not radically changed soon. Full on fascism will be voted in and engulf this country, you can bet on that!

[Yavin4]

28. Look to Germany for the answer

You need a higher skill level in order to get middle class paying jobs. I'm not talking just about college, but you need higher level trade schools. An auto mechanic today is more like an IT technician than a grease monkey.

A wise leader tells the people this truth and pushes for programs that train workers for the jobs that do pay a middle class wage.

[TheFrenchRazor]

39. even that won't matter unless there is some kind of wage control; even the "good jobs" will pay

barely more than poverty wages, for the very few lucky enough to have them.

[HoneyBadger]

27. 50 years ago there was no Made in Mexico

Now they are up there with China. It is unsustainable so long as it is wage driven and wages keep going up. The decline of the US manufacturing industry will be mimicked by China and Mexico soon enough. Hope they enjoy their baby boomer economy while they can.

http://latinvex.com/mobile/article.aspx?id=808

[Yavin4]

30. Manufacturing is not in decline in America.

What is in decline is the number of and wages for low skilled mfg jobs. We have this tendency to equate mfg jobs with low skilled work, but that's not the case. Today's mfg jobs require a higher skill level than most office jobs.

[HoneyBadger]

34. That is what is meant by decline

A decline in the share of total employment attributable to manufacturing. I.e. a career.

[tammywammy]

41. I work in a manufacturing facility.

The sheer number of people involved predicting a more technology advanced product today is much less than previous generation products 20-30-40 years ago. Robotics for some to ensure accuracy and precision, and changes in the overall manufacturing process.

The people working the line today are more advanced than hey we're fore previous generations of products. Period. This is not low skill hammer in a rivet anymore.

[Maraya1969]

29. This is why the CEO's of Verison and T Mobile make 25 Million together!!!

These CEO's and top executives need to be shamed. I believe this is is a big reason why they need slave labor.

When you look at their salary page they don't list people who actually put their phones together. It's all sales people etc

[Initech]

32. Employers don't care.

Politicians can talk all the shit they want to about job, but they never say what kinds of jobs, or what the wages and working conditions will be like. All they see is the numbers. People being employed looks good for the GOP.

But in reality the employers don't care. They want cheap labor that meets the bare minimum working conditions in order to maximize that sweet, sweet profit. And the workers start getting restless? They'll fire everybody and replace them with machines.

[Sculpin Beauregard]

33. UNION FACTORY JOBS FROM THE POST WAR ERA TO THE 1980s ARE NOT COMING BACK!!!

Those days are gone!! They are gone forever!!

[Buckeyeblue]

35. The people who worked those jobs hated them

And encouraged their children to go to college so they wouldn't have to work those jobs. And they knew that with automation, those jobs were diminishing.