"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten us in to, Dubya."

[Mythsaje]

A lot of people are criticizing the Democrats for not have a coherent message about Iraq. Should we stay or should we go? Either way there's rough seas ahead. Or would that be rough sand? Anyway... The question shouldn't be, at this moment, whether the Dems should advocate staying or leaving, but whether the Dems should be pointing out HOW we got there in the first place.

"Iraq was never a threat...and they damn well knew it. Now we're there and don't have the faintest idea how to extricate ourselves. The President says "stay the course," but doesn't tell us what "stay the course" means.

"What the heck are we doing there in the first place? Because they were a threat? We know that wasn't true. We REALLY need to figure out why we were led into war against them. At first it was because Saddam was a threat, he was trying to get WMDs. Maybe he already HAD WMDs. Then it was just because he was a crazy lunatic jerk and we needed to get rid of him. Then it was to bring Democracy to the Middle East.

"Why are we there? Well, frankly, because our President and his advisors decided we needed to be. And that decision has killed over 2300 hundred American men and women so far, with who knows how many more to come. And what has it gained us? A ballooning deficit, the disdain of most of the rest of the world, and a lot of pissed-off Arabs.

"This wasn't OUR idea, though we were arm-twisted and 'misled' into it. Sure, we've got egg on our faces now. We were neo-conned.

"Do we need to get out of Iraq? We sure do. And as soon as we figure out how to do it without creating a bigger mess in the process, without causing even more innocent people to suffer for our arrogance, we'll be leaving.

"Just remember. We may look as though we went along with the plan, but we didn't write the plan and we didn't really know what the plan was. We still don't. But we know what the plan wasn't. It wasn't smart and it wasn't rational.

"So are we to blame? Partially. And we'll accept that. But we'll also accept that we have a responsibility to try to fix our mistake. To fix a mistake, you have to first acknowledge you made one. That's one thing you're not hearing from the President or the Republicans in general. They want to pretend that there wasn't a mistake. It's a Pee-Wee Herman moment for them. They're looking at the whole mess and saying, "we meant to do that."

"If they did, we've got even bigger problems than we realized."

[yurbud]

1. two things: even as Bushies presented, Iraq couldn't be a threat

and Democrats should be demanding the REAL reasons they were so hot to go into Iraq to defuse the bullshit war on terror and have a real debate on the costs and benefits of controlling other contries natural resources.

[opihimoimoi]

2. BushCo's Lies are bearing fruit...all nasty and sour tasting...something

like CROW

Our Dems could do very well with your post...they did not plan this thing...

One of the real Heros in this mess is John Murtha...others include Helen Thomas, Molly Ivans, Jon Stewart, Al Frankin, and many many others

[Arkansas Granny]

3. Why are we there? I'll tell you what I think.

Bush saw that 9/11 had given him the highest poll ratings in history and that appealed to his ego. When he saw that his ratings were starting to slide he had to do something. Since he couldn't count on another big terrorist attack he had to take matters into his own hands. The "war on terror" had been good to him and he had wanted to get Saddam for a long time, so why not wrap the two up together and run with it.

Well, we all know what happened next. Declare an enemy, whip up the base to a fever pitch and then go invade Iraq to "save the Amurikan people" and off he went. And those poll numbers went back up, not as high as before, but they spiked again. Unfortunately, with no plan for doing anything other that kicking Saddam's ass, it all fell apart.

So here we are, 3 years later, with the same people in power and Bush's ratings dropping like a stone. What do you think will happen first? Another LIHOP or MIHOP terrorist attack or will we declare war on Iran. The rhetoric we hear today about Iran is eerily reminiscent of the lies and misrepresentations we heard about Iraq.

This man scares me to death.

[Mythsaje]

4. Oh, absolutely...

I'm just tired of the "should I stay or should I go" prevaricating amongst the Dems, including the people here. We need to turn the focus back on why we're there in the first place, rather than arguing about whether we should stay or get out. I'd LOVE to see us making the great escape, but I know that's problematic on a number of levels. We need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and turn up the flames beneath the feet of those responsible for the debacle.

[yurbud]

6. yep--would we still have access to the oil?

[yurbud]

5. Do you think the wealthy and large corporations would let him do that if..

they didn't think it was in their interests?

Somebody has to profit. The pieces were in place before Bush got into office.

He will probably end up being expendable like Nixon.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. The wealthy and large corporations control Bush completely.

In the case of Iraq, Bush's desires coincided with those of PNAC and they have used him as a willing tool. He is just the window dressing they use to realize their objectives.

They couldn't get Clinton to do as they wanted, so Bush was groomed to run for (and ultimately be appointed to) the Presidency. If you haven't already done so, go to the PNAC website and read the letter they wrote Clinton in 1998:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

It's practically a blueprint for Bush's policies and actions. If you look at the names at the bottom, you can see who has orchestrated the war in Iraq.

[yurbud]

8. yep

[annabanana]

9. All fine frames Mythsaje... We should use them often

and LOUDLY!! They are simple, to the point, and (as an extra added bonus) TRUE

on edit: recommended
(needs gross updating)

[Mythsaje]

12. And what do you know...

that's a perfect graphic to go along with it. :D

[johnaries]

10. "Pee-Wee Herman moment"! That's PERFECT!

Mind if I borrow it - and shout it to the rooftops?
:toast:

[Mythsaje]

11. Be my guest...

I got a chuckle out of writing it. :)

[mitchtv]

15. isn't that Laurel and Hardy?

another fine mess you've gotten us into

[Neil Lisst]

13. Good topic. I propose ...

I think Democrats have to find a unifying theme and then explain differences as reflective of the nation's split.

WE BELIEVE AMERICA SHOULD BRING ITS TROOPS IN IRAQ HOME.

AS WITH AMERICANS, WE SOMETIMES DIFFER ON WHEN.

1 NOW,
or
2 LATER THIS YEAR

[Wafture]

14. another fine mess!