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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:14 PM
Original message
"Native-American leaders call for probe into shooting death"
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012804180_williams04m.html

Calling the fatal shooting of a First Nations carver by a Seattle police officer unjustified, Native-American and Canadian First Nations leaders gathered at a news conference Friday to demand a full investigation into the shooting death, as well as changes in the department.

Afterward, several local groups decided to plan a protest for Sept. 10, but haven't yet decided on a location or time.

John T. Williams, 50, a member of the Nuu-Chah-Nulth Dititdaht First Nations people on Vancouver Island, was killed by Officer Ian Birk near downtown Monday afternoon. Birk saw Williams with a knife and repeatedly ordered him to drop it just before shooting Williams four times from a distance of nine to 10 feet, according to Seattle police.

~~~

Others declared the matter is far from over. "We are not a people of a romantic past, nor are we a people of an irrelevant present, and we are not going to allow this to be swept under the rug," said Randy Lewis, a leader of the United Indians of All Tribes Foundation in Seattle.

"I knew John very well; he did not have a violent or aggressive bone in his body, nor could he move fast enough to be a threat to anybody. The only thing he could be a threat to is a piece of yellow cedar, maybe."



I did not know John Williams. And yet I did. I didn't know his name, but once I saw his picture, I recognized him. I have seen him often downtown. Sometimes he just nodded hello in passing. Sometimes he asked for money and sometimes I gave him a dollar or two. Always, whether just in passing, whether he asked for money or not and whether I gave him some or not, he smiled and said a few words of thanks or just hello or good day.


Info from an early report:

Seattle police officer fatally shoots man armed with knife

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012764459_copshooting31m.html
Originally published August 30, 2010 at 4:54 PM | Page modified August 31, 2010 at 12:58 PM


A Seattle police officer fatally shot a man Monday afternoon after he ignored orders to drop a knife and advanced toward the officer, police said.

Police spokeswoman Renee Witt said the officer was driving his patrol car south on Boren Avenue near Howell Street about 4:15 p.m. when he saw a man holding a knife who was seated on a short wall on the northwest corner of the intersection. The man appeared to be whittling a piece of wood, Witt said.

The officer, who thought the man was acting strangely, stopped his patrol car and got out, Witt said.

The man stood up and advanced toward the officer, ignoring several "loud commands" to stop and drop the knife, Witt said.


Two items of note there. The officer's account would soon change and the wood John was holding.
Here's an example of what John could do with a piece of wood and a carving knife:


Here's the link if you wish to see the larger version:
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/09/john_williams_native_american.php

Take a good look at this miniature totem pole. (Click to zoom in.) Notice the depth of the relief, the vivid colors and the intricate detail on the wings and faces. About two feet high, it's the kind of exceptional work that could sell for as much as $300 at downtown's Ye Olde Curiosity Shop, which liked the totem pole so much that the store decided to keep it instead. And it was done by John T. Williams, the Native American shot Monday by a police officer.

Ye Olde Curiousity Shop had been buying Williams' work for years, owner Andy James told SW this morning. In fact, James said that the store has bought from the Williams' family---famous carvers family from the Nitinaht tribe in British Columbia--for more than 100 years. James says he knew Williams' father, Ray, a fine carver, now deceased. James also stocks a selection of work from Williams' brother Rick.



The police car recorded audio and partial video of the incident. Neither have yet been released.
And the account changed rapidly from John being seated to him crossing the street:



http://www.seattlepi.com/local/426004_police01.html

Birk, on patrol from West Precinct, was driving south on Boren Avenue. At Howell Avenue, Birk stopped at a red light and saw Williams crossing with a board westbound in a crosswalk.

The officer could see Williams had a knife and was doing something to the board. "What he was doing we're not quite sure," Metz said. "But he was definitely doing something with this knife.

~~~

"You could hear the officer tell the man three times to drop the knife," Metz said of the audio recorded by the in-car camera. "The officer yelled these commands, and these commands were heard by some of the witnesses interviewed as well."

Police say Williams, standing about nine feet away, refused the officer's orders and Birk fired the four rounds from his service weapon.

"That man did turn toward the officer. As far as whether or not the man lunged, we're still in the process of trying to get that information clarified," Metz said. "We're in the process of interviewing all the witnesses in the area, including the officer, and hoping to get that information very soon."




Police have been asking for other witnesses to come forward.

There have been some witness reports:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012769201_copshooting01m.html

Amber Maurina, 28, said she was driving home Monday afternoon from a doctor's appointment and was stopped at a red light at Boren and Howell. She said she was facing north on Boren and saw the officer stop his patrol car, which was facing south on Boren, and get out.

Maurina said a tall, scruffy-looking man was standing with his back to her. She said she never saw the man's hands but thought he might be urinating or fumbling around in a fanny pack. Maurina said she watched the officer approach the man and saw him mouthing something to the man, who did not appear to respond.

"His body stance did not look threatening at all," she said of the man. "I could only see the gentleman's back, and he didn't look aggressive at all. He didn't even look up at the officer."

The officer approached the man, but was still "at least two car-lengths" away, Maurina said, when she heard the officer say, "Hey, hey, hey," followed by gunshots.

"I watched him kind of slowly, sort of gracefully and elegantly, fall to the ground," Maurina said of the man. "From what I saw, it did not look right."



The Times additionally reported that this witness contacted the Times stating that Williams may not have "realized the officer was trying to get his attention."

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Times-Man-shot-by-officer-was-armed-with-a-3-inch-blade-101926398.html

"When I heard that story, I was really upset because it was just total counter to what I witnessed," said Thomas. He says Williams was walking away from the officer.
"The cop then fired three shots," said Thomas. "One had to go in the side and the others had to go in the guy's back 'cause the guy never did turn around. He never approached the cop. Never saw his hands. Never saw a knife. He may have looked back at the cop, but he didn't do anything threatening."
Witness Gregory Reese says he did see Williams turn, but he didn't think Williams was a threat to the officer.
"He just turned around and the cop shot him. That's all I saw. It was really quick," said Reese.



I wonder how much the eye witness accounts had to do with the change from the first police report.

Was it close or from 9 feet away? Did John hear or understand or even notice the demands?

Important questions, especially since from many accounts John was deaf in at least one ear, had cognitive issues and had difficulty walking. He also struggled with alcoholism and poverty. And he has faced charges before, mostly public indecency and lewd conduct.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012784234_copshooting02m.html

A man fatally shot by a Seattle police officer after being ordered to drop a knife often had difficulty hearing and understanding what was said to him, say people who knew him.
"He struggled with a lot things. He had a long history of homelessness and a long history of drinking, and he suffered with some profound cognitive challenges from that," said Nicole Macri, a spokeswoman for the Downtown Emergency Services Center (DESC), which runs 1811 Eastlake, a home for long-term alcoholics where Williams had lived off and on for the past several years.

Williams had returned to the home two weeks ago after being convicted of a felony for exposing himself to a staff member in May 2009. Macri said the employee had welcomed him back, reinforcing the perception held by Macri and others at DESC that Williams posed no threat.

Many more accounts from people who knew him in that article, including:
"I can definitely see a scenario where John had been drinking and it is taking him a while to focus exactly on what is going on; I could see him tripping more than I could see him lunging."


Having seen John walking, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

I know this is long and even with that I haven't done the best job of explaining or even raising all the questions I have about this, about training on disability response, on cultural awareness, on deescalation of situations, on poverty and homelessness in America , on the history of interactions between tribal members and the police.

What I do want to say is:
Rest in Peace, John.
You will be missed.



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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh my
this is not good. Another example of how far apart the police are from the people who live in the city. This also is a reason why police should be OUT of their cars and walking a beat. A cop in a regular beat would have gotten to know this man and realized he was not a threat. Another thing, why wouldn't the taser be used first? :shrug:
I live in Everett, where at least two citizens have been killed by police shootings in the last year or so. In both cases, like this one, they appear to have been unprovoked and unnecessary. So sad...........
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And if they are too new to know the people and the area, they should be
with a partner who does.

I saw a report that the officer did not have a taser.

I don't know why that would be.

And I want to hear more about protocol for officers taking into account that someone might be deaf, have vision issues or be on medication or have been drinking.

I'm seeing nothing about that.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. This is how cops treat people with disabilities--even if they are little old
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 03:51 PM by tblue37
blind/deaf ladies who can't hear them make demands:
Cops Waste Blind Geezer
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf?/base/news/1082807738251705.xml

Thursday, April 29 @ 09:07PM CDT
Steve Duin

She was 71 years old. She was blind. She needed her 94-year-old mother to come to her rescue.

And in the middle of the dogfight -- in which Eunice Crowder was pepper-sprayed, Tasered and knocked to the ground by Portland's courageous men in blue -- the poor woman's fake right eye popped out of its socket and was bouncing around in the dirt.

How vicious and ugly can the Portland police get? Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner. This 2003 case is so blatant, the use of force so excessive, the threat of liability so intimidating that the city just approved a $145,000 settlement.

But all those gung-ho fans of the cops can relax. Nothing has changed. Nothing will upset the status quo.

The cops aren't apologizing.

The cops aren't embarrassed.

The cops haven't been disciplined.

And the cops are still insisting, to the bitter end, that they "reasonably believed" this blind ol' bat was a threat to their safety and macho culture.

Eunice Crowder, you see, didn't follow orders. Eunice was uncooperative. Worried a city employee was hauling away a family heirloom, a 90-year-old red toy wagon, she had the nerve to feel her way toward the trailer in which her yard debris was being tossed.

Enter the police. Eunice, who is hard of hearing, ignored the calls of Officers Robert Miller and Eric Zajac to leave the trailer. When she tried, unsuccessfully, to bite the hands that were laid on her, she was knocked to the ground.

When she kicked out at the cops, she was pepper-sprayed in the face with such force that her prosthetic marble eye was dislodged. As she lay on her stomach, she was Tased four times with Zajac's electric stun gun.

And when Nellie Scott, Eunice's 94-year-old mother, tried to rinse out her daughter's eye with water from a two-quart Tupperware bowl, what does Miller do? According to Ernie Warren Jr., Eunice's lawyer, the cop pushed Nellie up against a fence and accused her of planning to use the water as a weapon.

Paranoia runs deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid . . .

Afraid and belligerent. "Cops have changed," Warren said. "When I grew up, they weren't people who huddled together and their only friends were the cops. You had access to them all the time. You weren't afraid of them."

What did Police Chief Derrick Foxworth have to say about the case? "This did not turn out the way we wanted it to turn out," Foxworth said Friday. "Looking back, and I know the officers feel this as well, they may have done something differently. We would have wanted the minimal amount of force to have been used. But I feel we need to recognize Ms. Crowder has some responsibility. She contributed to the situation."

Granted. But Eunice was 71. She was blind. That probably explains why a judge threw out all charges against her and why the city, in a stone-cold panic, settled ASAP.

"This was like fighting Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder," Warren said. "It wasn't a fair fight."

No, but it was another excuse to haul out the usual code words about the cops' "reasonable" belief that they were justified to use a "reasonable amount of force to defend themselves."

If you have a different definition of "reasonable," you just don't understand the Portland police. You need to remember the words of Robert King, head of the police union, defending Officer Jason Sery in the March shooting of James Jahar Perez:

"What sets us apart from people like most of you is that you'll never face a situation in your job where -- in less than 10 seconds -- the routine can turn to truly life-threatening," King wrote. "When that happens to us, when we have to make that ultimate split-second decision, we don't just ask for your understanding, we ask for your support."

She was 71 years old. She was blind. She was lucky, I guess, that these cops -- set apart from people like most of us -- didn't make the usual split-second decision and draw their guns.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. This needs to change
When she kicked out at the cops, she was pepper-sprayed in the face with such force that her prosthetic marble eye was dislodged. As she lay on her stomach, she was Tased four times with Zajac's electric stun gun.


There's no excuse - NONE - for anything like this to happen. Horrific that it happened at all and the reaction, trying to deny and justify it makes it all the more likely that something similar will happen again. They need to look at these events, learn from them, face up to the problems in training and attitude these show, implement training and impose penalties when such egregious violations occur.

Is the motto still not "Protect and serve" ?

Who was protected here?

Who was served?



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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent post
This is so tragic.
How have we gotten to the point where such a man is assassinated by the local police. Why was this cop so ignorant?
Years ago I worked in a shop on First Ave of all places. Lots of street people who did not fit the mold and the police KNEW them and just kept tabs on them. Their differences made their lives difficult but they did not pose a threat to others.
Decent training would have taught that cop to recognize he was dealing with someone who was likely intoxicated and may have cognitive challenges. He needs to be fired.

For John - Vince Gill's song - Go Rest High on that Mountain - peace.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It's a post I very much wish I didn't need to make
You've brought up the issues much more succinctly than I have and what you said is spot on.

Once I saw the picture, I recognized him immediately. I would think a downtown officer should as well.

I even saw him recently down at the park at Pike Place. He was seated near a young man who was carving small totem poles. I now wonder if he was teaching him.

Concur that the cop should be fired.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. k&r. Killed while whittling by police who didn't know what they were doing
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yep, and then tried to justify/cover it up
with his first story.

The wood in his hand was a pretty good indicator of what he was doing with the knife.

Apparently the knife was also in legal size limits.

I do applaud the witnesses for coming forward. I think they made a difference.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. ah damnit..
another innocent dies due to an itchy trigger finger. Bless him and thanks for bringing this to our attention.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. And all this happened only a couple of blocks from the police station
If nothing else, why didn't the officer call for assistance?


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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rest in peace Mr. Williams.
Maybe it's my own cultural belief coming through here but I think it is insane that almost every law enforcement officer in the United States is armed. A lot of private security guards are armed too... crazy - in my own opinion!

Yes, law enforcement does need to have access to and trained specialists in the use of firearms... but a great law enforcement officer has a good pair of eyes, access to "modern" communication equipment, and excellent people skills. I know this isn't Mayberry any more, but America isn't the Wild West anymore either.

It is clear to me John Williams was needlessly shot to death by the law enforcement officer in question. Had the law enforcement officer not been armed, he'd most likely call for backup if he perceived an actual threat.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I appreciate your perspective on this
You make excellent points.

As I noted in another response, the police station was close by. If the officer had reached for his radio rather than his gun, John Williams would likely be alive today.

Thank you from across the pond.

:hi:
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. So sad.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. "Questions raised after 5 police killings in 1 week"
Five people have died this week in violent confrontations with police in the Puget Sound region - and some people now are asking why there isn't a less deadly way of dealing with aggressive suspects.
~~~
In fact, more and more voices are asking why officers can't find a less deadly way of responding to individuals who pose a perceived threat to public safety. They wonder why officers always "shoot to kill."

"Shoot them in the arm, shoot them in the shoulder, shoot them in the leg," says Bob Aitkin of Tacoma. "Just to slow them down - to stop them. But I don't think they have to take their lives."



Very sad.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Movie stuff.
"Shoot them in the arm, shoot them in the shoulder, shoot them in the leg," says Bob Aitkin of Tacoma. "Just to slow them down - to stop them. But I don't think they have to take their lives."

Do things that way and you get more dead people, not less.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't necessarily think that's the best solution either
As I noted earlier in the thread, I think better training is vital, particularly in deescalation, use of appropriate force and understanding of disability and cultural issues and how they can impact communication.

And some of those 5 (now 6) shootings may have been justified.

But I don't think all of them were and I do think re-examination of procedure and re-evaluation of training are seriously needed.

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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. You're right.
Training and procedure should be constantly evaluated and updated.

But the reason LEOs shoot to kill and shoot center mass is for their safety and the safety of people around them.

But the path to that moment needs to be seriously examined.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "the path to that moment needs to be seriously examined"
That is a powerful statement and one I absolutely agree with.



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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. kicked
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Thanks slampoet
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here are some people who *did* know him. Nothing but good comments.
Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 08:12 PM by Hannah Bell
Shawn Marshall says:

I knew John Trouble. He was a happy and gentle person, never threatening. I work on broadway at an coffee cart. And saw John often on the street showing off his wood carving. Maybe if your going to walk the streets as an officer of the law, you should get to know your nieghbors better. Have a backbone and dont point a gun at everything you dont understand.


karla m says:

i knew john too -- i work for the agency that provided his services (case management, housing, etc.). he was a sweet and gentle spirit dealing with life the best way he knew how. i am so torn between being very sad and very angry. our clients die too soon for a number of reasons (drug overdose, neglect of health, hard living), but this was COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE. @ matt - everything you said was absolutely right on the money. that cop had at least 10 better options, the best of which was to leave the guy alone. @ shawn - you've brought up the whole problem -- the police DON'T walk the streets (they sit in their steel and glass bubble) and they don't know or care to know about their neighbors. @ luke - thank you. that helps.


Norman D. Drynock says:

I know the Williams Carvers, John was always giving helpful advise as I learned to carve wood from his cousin Frank Williams, they all shared their knowlege. I am of the Nlakap amx Nation in B.C. Johns sisters are great carvers like their brothers, I am with you all in my prayers. I lived on the streets of Seattle for about 11 years, witnessed them giving money to those whoe needed it 'more than themselves'. I now have a BSW Degree and full time job in Whitehorse YT. My experience of living on the streets, meeting people like the Williams family helped me get my BSW and Employment. I still carve to keep my Spirit balanced within myself. I was just looking up totem poles and seen headline 'Carver John Williams Shot by Police While holding Knife' Sadness, most of my friends from the streets have gone Home with the ancestors, too many violently. To the Williams Family,I pray you all grieve in a healthy strong way together. I am so greatful for you sharing your knowlege of carving with me. I now carve wood, anlter, horn, Mamoth Tusk ivory, metal, and stone because of your generosity. That police officer failed to protect and serve, instead he destroyed the opportunity for some one else like me to learn from John, May his wood chips in the land of ancestors keep the sun burning for us he left behind, so we can always have a warm ray of hope that the world can be a better place for our children.


http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/08/man_shot_and_killed_by_police.php




and here's the dangerous cop-scaring blade: 7 cm, less than 3 inches.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. That fits with my impressions of him
Something I would add.

In addition to being friendly, he always struck me as being frail.

He was a bit unsteady, and not just the unsteadiness from alcohol, but the unsteadiness that can come with age and/or mobility issues.

This is a tragedy and we must keep raising our voices.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. all but one item on his record were misdemeanors. "public indecency" = peeing in the alley.
the fact that he was allowed to return to the facility where he'd "exposed himself" to a staffer tells me he wasn't perceived as a threat & that the "exposure" may have been something as innocuous as leaving his dick hanging out when he went to the front desk to pick up his mail, or trying to pee in the lobby when he was drunk.

That was his only felony, and typically they don't let felons return to the scene of their felony -- unless they're not dangerous and the offense wasn't dangerous.

He wasn't a perv, which is what some of the coverage seems to be trying to make a case for.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Absolutely agree with you
which is why I posted the segment from that article. I wanted to counter that from the start.

It shows that the people at the facility did not feel threatened by him and welcomed him back.

So many of the articles just had numbers in them, rather than the important information that these were misdemeanors.
We're of the same mind that with the lack of public restrooms in Seattle and bias against people who are homeless using even those, some of that "lewd" behavior was simply him taking a pee in an alley. I'm glad you brought that up. I thought it, but didn't post it, and it's important for people to know, especially if they aren't familiar with Seattle.




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galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Within 21 feet of a cop with a knife, not smart.
drop it. IMMEDIATELY, because a manslaughter charge doesn't amount to a hill of beans to your family.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. The knife was *legal*, do you get it? He was carving a piece of *wood*.
Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 09:40 PM by Hannah Bell
with a 7 cm blade. Legal in seattle.

not only that, the police have *retracted* their original story about the victim lunging at the officer because *all the witnesses disputed it*.
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galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. I do get it. I react to what is, not what should be.
I'm not saying its right, or defending the cop.

But in any conflict, and any encounter with the police should be considered "contact" or at least a low level conflict, the object is always to break that contact with your safety intact.

So I will restate, anyone within 21 feet of a uniformed police officer in the US, carrying anything resembling a knife, needs to take steps to clear that weapon from his control as soon as possible, and in plain view. All the criminal charges in the world won't make your family miss you any less.

Oh, and cops are NOT trained to take knives away from people they contact. To them a knife=gun=hand grenade. Deadly force is the only option, ILO a taser.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. He may not have even heard the demand
or may have somewhat heard it too late.

And as Hannah also noted he was engaged in a legal activity with legal equipment in Seattle.

There was no complaint that day against him and no apparent reason as come out for the officer to have even approached him.

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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
28. So sad on so many levels


Human madness (the cop's, not John's)

May you join all your relations John

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. .
:hug:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Just thinking about John this am


with sadness




a :hug: back atcha





and a :kick: for the beloved artist



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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I've been thinking about this poem a lot lately
LOST

Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you
Are not lost. Wherever you are is called Here,
And you must treat it as a powerful stranger,
Must ask permission to know it and be known.
The forest breathes. Listen. It answers,
I have made this place around you.
If you leave it, you may come back again, saying Here.
No two trees are the same to Raven.
No two branches are the same to Wren.
If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you,
You are surely lost. Stand still. The forest knows
Where you are. You must let it find you.

- DAVID WAGGONER -
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Let it find you


That's a profound way to approach nature, rather than thinking we "find" it.

I like to think artists like John let the wood "find" the art that they create.

His death is a loss to us all.

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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
30. Native carvers are a common sight in Seattle
I have bought works from several amazing carvers who I discovered whittling on totems while sitting on park benches or at bus stops. I am sure I admired Mr. Williams' work before. I have found these native street artists deserving of respect for their skills. They are proud individuals who keep the old traditions alive in their craft. Some had problems with alcohol, others maybe no real place to call home, but not one ever treated me disrespectfully or in a threatening manner when I have stopped to admire their work. These are proud people whose way of life was destroyed. They cling to the old ways in a modern world. They remind us that Seattle has not come that far from its frontier roots.

The Seattle Police Dept. needs to learn how to respect cultural differences. This man was senselessly gunned down by a trigger-happy rookie cop. A veteran cop with some insight into the community he serves would have known an Indian carver was not a threat.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. A very common sight
It's just last week that I saw John Williams at Steinbrueck Park sitting near a young man who was carving totems. As I said in another post, I wonder now if he was teaching him and passing down the craft.
Like you, I have never been treated disrespectfully or felt the least bit threatened. This is an integral part of the culture and community here and police should be trained to understand that.


The ACLU has chimed in and makes good points in its letter to the SPD.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/09/08/aclu-slams-spd-city-hall-for-cops-killing-of-john-t-williams
September 7, 2010
Mayor Mike McGinn
Chief of Police John Diaz
Members of the Seattle City Council

Re: An Open Letter calling for a change in the mindset and training of the SPD

Dear leaders of the City of Seattle:

The tragic killing by a Seattle police officer of a Native American wood carver as he walked through his neighborhood is part of a string of disturbing incidents in which police officers used force in questonable circumstances.

The pattern of violence must stop. Seattle’s leaders must step up to create some basic changes—a new set of approaches, expectations, and daily practices in the Seattle Police Department. Change is imperative to encourage improved decision-making by officers, more trust from community members, and safer communities for all Seattleites.

In a democracy, police officers are delegated great powers by the people they serve to enforce our laws. With that power comes great responsibility—including the responsibility to use force only when clearly necessary.

Too often, officers have overreacted or escalated incidents when the subject is an individual of color, disabled, homeless or, otherwise “different.” We fear that the drive for so-called “civility” laws has created a mindset that our streets need to be rid of “undesirable” people. It sends a message to officers that some people are suspect because of their appearance and manner and should be removed from public view to make others “feel” safer.

This mindset must change. Partly it is a matter of training. Officers must be trained to understand that “appearing different” doesn’t automatically make a person a safety risk. Officers must assess safety threats based on objective facts rather than outward appearance. And officers must learn and use effective de-escalation techniques to diffuse tense situations without resorting to force.

Both the basic training provided by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission and the training provided specifically to Seattle police recruits must be reevaluated to ensure that officers learn the skills needed to protect all of the people of Seattle.

But for good training to be effective, it must be continuously reinforced. From the Chief of Police to the sergeants on the street, the message must be clear that that officers are sworn to fight crime, not people.

Mr. Williams was a brother, a son, a friend to many, a talented artist, and a valued human being—far more than just “a homeless man.” The police officer is also a valued human being—and one given the difficult and dangerous responsibility of judging when to use deadly force to keep us all safe.

The Seattle Police Department needs the leadership, de-escalation training, and cross-cultural skills that will help minimize the chances of fatal street encounters. A change in approach will improve public safety for all in our community and make the police department more effective in carrying out its important mission.

Sincerely,

Kathleen Taylor
Executive Director
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
32. don't give up, don't give in
nt
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Right there with you
Edited on Fri Sep-10-10 09:28 PM by suffragette
NGU
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