Christians give Bush ultimatum to ban gay marriage

[truthpusher]

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wbush30.xml

Christians give Bush ultimatum to ban gay marriage
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
(Filed: 30/01/2005)

Conservative Christian leaders who played a key role in securing President George W Bush's re-election have given the White House an ultimatum over outlawing same-sex marriages.

(snip)

Mr Bush has said that "nothing will happen" for now on the proposed federal amendment leading to a constitutional ban on gay marriages. He did not mention the amendment in his inaugural address and the issue was not listed in the 10-point legislative agenda unveiled by Republican leaders in Congress last week.

(snip)

"We couldn't help but notice the contrast between how the President is approaching the difficult issue of social security privatisation, where the public is deeply divided, and the marriage issue, where public opinion is overwhelmingly on his side," the leaked letter said.

"Is he prepared to spend significant political capital on privatisation but reluctant to devote the same energy to preserving traditional marriage?

(snip)

"If Republicans do what they've done in the past, which is say, 'Thanks so much for putting us in power: now we don't want to talk to you any more', they will pay a serious price."

complete story:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wbush30.xml

[w4rma]

1. I'm a Christian and I don't support this hateful "ultimatum". (nt)

[truthpusher]

4. I thought the very same thing about the title...

...and I was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice....not long.

[lancdem]

12. Yes, it should be "conservative Christians"

[eagler]

90. should be neo- conservative christians

nt

[sportndandy]

93. Should be pseudo-christians Or mega-maniacal control freaks

Either way.

[Jawja]

97. Or Christo-Fascists?

I like that one.

[goddess40]

106. how about "fake" christians

real christians would be tolerant and accepting of those that are different.

[More Than A Feeling]

32. I am also a Christian, and I deem this message of hate "appalling"

[KittyWampus]

40. Maybe It Should Read Christians (Sic)

[cornfedyank]

67. maybe it should read zealot

ask them, if jesus was here now, who would be the pharisees?

[donheld]

98. Now you all understand how Muslims feel

Everytime they say muslim's call for this or that, attack one thing or another etc. There are zealots in both faiths who don't represent what true religion is all about.

[wicket]

53. amen - same here

These people do not speak for me and I'm tired of my religion being used to promote such hate.

[Zynx]

63. Same here.

I have never supported all of this gay hate.

[Tinoire]

72. Same here. Amen! n/t

[twaddler01]

75. same here...

Christian here as well, but don't support the ultimatum. They must be very conservative...

:bounce:

[phylny]

2. What "price" are they gonna pay?

Will everyone vote Democratic next time? I'd love to see it, not holding my breath.

Remember, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Heh.

[lancdem]

Exactly

Karl Rove used them to get Bush "reelected." Now that Bush is a lame duck, he doesn't have to kiss their ass anymore.

[regnaD kciN]

They could make life rough for the Repugs...

...by just staying home on election day.

If they played their cards wisely, they'd do that during the midterms. Because of the distribution of incumbents up for election, it's highly dubious that this would cause the G.O.P. to lose control of Congress, but they could cause a number of "safe" seats to be a lot tighter than they ought to be. By doing this, while at the same time making it clear that they are boycotting this election because the White House is ignoring them, they could keep the Repugs in power while putting them on notice that continued inaction on the Religious Reich agenda might seriously endanger their chances in 2008.

Of course, that still doesn't get the Republicans out of the dilemma they're in with the fundies: string them along for too long, and they'll run out of patience; actually enact their agenda, and the fundies will have no reason to come out and vote anymore, plus lots of non-fundies will defect...

[AndyTiedye]

38. The FundieFascistDominionists Own the Voting Machinez

 "committed to helping to deliver the electoral votes of Ohio to the President"
  Walden O'Dell, CEO

[Orsino]

43. They won't do that.

The fundies will still vote Republican. Oh, a handful might launch some sort of protest, but these wanna-be fascists have painted themselves into a corner. The only way the rank-and-file can participate in the political process is by voting, and they've been seduced by this apparent power they wield. They are as sports fans grown used to returning pop flies. The Republicans are the only party that pretend to give them special regard.

They'll continue to vote for the fascists most like themselves. The so-called Christian leaders' threats are empty. The party that controls the voting machines doesn't need them so much anymore.

[jdj]

76. empty threats....who is this Arlington group?

why do they think themselves powerful enough to "leak letters" as if anyone gives a shit...only elected officials can "support" Bush's SS piratization, or not, he's not up for re-election. This is beyond weird.

[dansolo]

80. They may run their own candidate

Perhaps they will try and have Roy Moore run in the Republican primary. That would be an interesting primary campaign.

[Orsino]

91. That might be their worst threat...

...but most American right-wing fundamentalists will still be too afraid of "losing" to a Democrat. The wingers in charge of the voting machines might still have to pretend to fear that.

[VirginiaDem]

96. I disagree

The split is real and the fundies truly believe what they believe. They'll support third party candidates, like the Constitutional or Reform depending on who they nominate, or stay home whether than vote for someone who they believe has betrayed them. Not all of them mind you but a fair enough chunk to put elections in doubt. They aren't backed into a corner--the party is. The fundies own the Republican party now and if the Repubs turn on them (or are seen to have turned on them), they'll walk.

The social security tidbit is interesting--there's nothing fundie about this issue. This is designed to keep the Mensheviks in the revolution--the big business-non-fundy types, who will only put up with so much social conservative engineering before they balk.

[54anickel]

56. Or start their own party. Isn't that what Robertson threatened not too

long ago, just before the elections? That'll split the Repub vote! Maybe I should champion that cause?

[jdj]

77. Yes, lets all champion this cause.

If one party splits, we can too.

We can have 4 parties, real representation, and a whole hell of a lot of politicking going on. I really believe they need a radical right party to truly represent their cause. True so-called fiscal conservatives (the "I got mine so screw you" people) would jump at the chance to divest themselves of these harpies and harpos.

[54anickel]

95. Maybe we can get 7,000 names on the ballots too?...n/t

[Flammable Materials]

24. It should be "Christian Nationalists". n/t

[DireStrike]

3. Yeah, I'm sure King George is shaking in his little boots.

[rodeodance]

7. little boots go with a little mind.

[frictionlessO]

44. ahhh was that Caligula reference intended?

I havent heard that one before and I rather like it!

[DireStrike]

100. Yes it was

Picked it up on DU, of course! :)

[Mojambo]

5. I got some bad news for them

He doesn't NEED you anymore.

So sit down, shut-up, and get your ass-fucking like the rest of us.

[lancdem]

8. Yep

This article brought a big smile to my face. Anyone who voted for Bush because they thought he was going to push for a gay marriage ban is a gullible fool who was played by Karl Rove. How's it feel to be manipulated?

[Dookus]

22. they won't catch on....

the anti-abortion nutcases haven't gotten any real action in 30 years, and they still cling to the fiction that Republicans want to outlaw abortion.

[lancdem]

23. I was thinking about that the other day

What did Reagan ever do to outlaw abortion? And abortions actually declined under Clinton, a pro-choice president. There's even a graf in the story about how the anti-abortion faction was upset at Bush's lame-ass phone call during their rally.

[Bouncy Ball]

42. Good point, Dookus

Though it does seem as if they have won enough little victories to make some serious dents.

Witness: doctors actually performing abortions have gone the way of the dodo bird in many parts of the US, which means women with fewer resources (those least prepared to raise a child, in other words) have the least access to abortion.

:shrug:

They are in the middle of very successfully shutting down Planned Parenthood in College Station/Bryan, Texas, and they aren't even a PP branch that performs abortions!

When Planned Parenthood was located in College Station, right across from the Texas A&M campus, unplanned pregnancy rates were low, STD rates were low, and A&M even had one of the lowest HIV rates among students of any university of the same size in the NATION (30,000 students).

Then the anti-choice people started ranting and raving about PP passing out condoms on campus and giving out education and information on STDs (gasp, the horror, education and information, my GOD) and PP was eventually forced to move to Bryan, where a lot of girls on campus without cars couldn't reach them and now they are in even more dire straits and about to close down. Might have already, for all I know.

[Dookus]

47. Yes

the anti-abortion people have succeeded in harrassing well enough to make it difficult for people. My point was that legislatively, precious little has been done in 30 years.

While there are the egregious examples of the late-term abortion act and some parental notification laws, these have actually had next-to-no impact on the actual numbers of abortions performed.

It has long been my belief that Republicans would be mortified at the idea of actually outlawing abortion - they NEED it as an issue and any success on this "fake" issue would prevent them from being elected to do what they REALLY want to do (basically steal everything).

In fact, I think Kerry should've pushed Bush on the abortion issue. Bush has said he does not favor overturning Roe v Wade, but you'd be hard-pressed to find many republicans who are aware of that. Kerry should've MADE Bush come out explicitly one way or the other. Kerry had nothing to lose - a clear majority of Americans favor keeping abortion legal.

[Bouncy Ball]

48. Excellent point.

In fact, I think Kerry should've pushed Bush on the abortion issue. Bush has said he does not favor overturning Roe v Wade, but you'd be hard-pressed to find many republicans who are aware of that. Kerry should've MADE Bush come out explicitly one way or the other. Kerry had nothing to lose - a clear majority of Americans favor keeping abortion legal.

In all the turmoil of the campaign season, this never occurred to me. But very good point.

And yes, legislatively, nothing has been done. I just wish poor women still had the same access they used to have. Here in Texas (I know, no shocker) we even have the state legislature cutting health care services to poor women so that they don't even have access to birth control pills, for fucking crying out loud.

:cry:

[Dookus]

50. I'm tired of

seeing Democrats on the defensive on this issue. America AGREES with us! Put the Republicans on the defensive!

[Djinn]

49. bingo

how f-ing stupid ARE these people, why would any political party give up a couple of fantastic wedge issues that pull the conservatives out to vote yet need no actual action whatsoever.

who are they going to vote for instead, Nader???

[Bluebear]

9. That's one of my favorite posts EVER!!!!!!!

[tsuki]

6. Really? And just who will they vote for...The Rev. Moon or his disciple

Jerry Falwell? Get real Xians, you have painted yourself into a box. You have no power. There is no where for you to turn but to Corporate America.

[Nitrogenica]

10. Come On * , DO IT DO IT DO IT (mocking)

The ship is sinking.

[ClassWarrior]

11. Can we say Radical RW Wedgie!??

Very cool.

NGU.

[sendero]

13. This is so funny...

... so the Religious Right is just now figuring it out? It was plain as day for years. They are every bit as stupid as I always thought they were.

And "pay a serious price"? BWwwaahahahahahaha :)

[Alpharetta]

14. "There'll be HELL to pay!" he roared

/sorry. I just like being all fundie every now and then... :)

[saltpoint]

15. I think Karl Rove is laughing in his office like a madman.

And to the gay-bashing fundies out there:

Y'all done been used.

That's how BushCo operates and you just got rode hard and put away wet.

[katinmn]

16. They were duped. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

:bounce: :toast: :-(
That's what they get.

Oh, forgot. We're paying for it, too.

[Contrary1]

68. Ditto n/t

[Straight Shooter]

17. WHAT significant political capital? WHO is overwhelmingly on his side?

These quotes indicate a serious cognitive dissonance going on.

First, 50.8 percent is not a mandate, you nitwit. (Especially for those of us who dispute even that figure.)

Second, most Americans are most definitely NOT overwhelmingly for the gay marriage amendment.

No wonder these moralizers support bush; they're as divorced from reality as he is. :eyes:

[Cats Against Frist]

33. The Republicans DO lie about anti-gay marriage support

The highest I've ever seen in a poll was 59 percent supporting the amendment, and that was by far an outlier. Most are just a shade under 50.

Republicans like to think that hovering around the majority means you have the support for a Constitutional amendment -- when a supermajority is needed to amend the Constititution. Comparable support would have to be 67 percent to justify support for an amendment.

Of course this is their wish -- to remove law from the foundation of rationality, and subject it to mob rule and the tyranny of the majority, this is why they're trying to cripple the federal courts and limit judicial review. (Unless, of course, they own the Supreme Court and the federal courts, in which case, they will try to transfer as much power to these courts as possible. Fucking hypocrite liars).

At any rate, OVER 50 percent of the American people are for civil unions.

Why can't we just have the state grant civil unions and let the churches take care of marriage? Seems reason-fucking-able enough. Too few people are willing to cling to their desire for state sanctioning and state denounciation.

[many a good man]

18. Bush** should come out and propose the "SPONGE BOB" Amendment!

A federal ban on gay marriage AND homoerotic cartoon characters.

[lancdem]

21. LOL

[ebayfool]

88. They just might demand that! LOL

The looney tunes group behind this have the very same Dobson as one of their leaders. Dobson sicced his people on Keith Olbermann for doing a piece about them going after Sponge Bob. Some of his group threatened to 'Dan Rather' him for it. Schmucks!
/snip

James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family and one of the leaders of the Arlington Group, warned of future battles.

[illflem]

19. I think anti-gay Christians are about to find out that they have

been played for their votes and bush has no intension of abolishing gay marriage.

[CO Liberal]

20. Let's Charge Bauer & Dobson With Extortion

ASAP

[DemoTex]

25. I am involved deeply in this issue through my brother (Druid Hills CC)

Here is a link to the "All Things Considered" (NPR) segment on Druid Hills Country Club on 1/26. This interview features the gay woman who is a party in the suit. My brother is the gay partner of the other party, a well-known Atlanta gay activist and lawyer.

This story broke last January in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It was a godsend. It got my brother, a very sucessful Atlanta radiologist, out of the closet with my elderly parents. My parents (mom was a teacher and dad was a professor of entomology) immediatly rallied and embraced my brother's partner. He (the partner) knew that he had "arrived" when my parents included him in their gift-list this past Christmas.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4467277

[Disturbed]

28. Fundie Fascist want what Jesus never talked about.

Jesus never commented on abortion either.

These phony christians are nothing short of moronic fascists. Yeah, I hope that they start their own party as one of their fascist leaders threatened to do so the the Rethug votes will be split. Moderate Repubs are gnashing their teeth and biting their lips but some are now coming out of the shadows and rebelling against the Bush Junta. The fizzure in the Rethug party is cracking wider.

[VegasWolf]

26. Ha Ha! Sure was a good election issue for some clowns. n/t

[Kimber Scott]

27. Seems like they're trying to cash in on some of their non-existent

politcal capital, just like Bush is.

[Deb]

29. Obviously, it is not God's will

I pray they learn to accept that.

[necso]

30. This issue (and other bitterly divisive ones)

will pop up in time to influence future (important) elections. The neocons have no use for these issues at the moment -- they have more important ones (like pounding the wedge into SS) to deal with now.

[VegasWolf]

31. What could be more awful than loving gay couples getting married? n/t

[Pegleg Thd]

34. Could it be that smirk

and pickles have learned that one of the twins is gay???

[njdemocrat106]

35. Gay Marriage is wonderful and should be made legal

I'm a Christian too, and I think gay marriage is a civil rights issue.

[Gman]

36. The fundies don't understand that

Bush's buddies's don't make any money on banning gay marriage. What's so hard to understand about that? Did they think he was really serious about banning gay marriage? What a bunch of maroons!

SUCKERS!

[bling bling]

86. You hit the nail on the head. If it does't make money

for his circle of friends, it isn't a priority (now that the election is over, that is).

[mordarlar]

37. Bush is in and has the power of our Congress and our courts....

he does not NEED the conservative base anymore. Wonder what it feels like to know you have been played. If they had asked me i could have told them he would do this. He says whatever he needs to until he is firmly placed where he chooses. Then defaults on his side of the bargain. He has done this time and again. FOOLS.

[VegasWolf]

39. SUCKERS! n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

41. THIS Christian is FOR gay people having equal rights.

And to the dude quoted in the article: the public is NOT overwhelmingly behind bush on the gay marriage issue. Not even CLOSE.

On the other hand, I will enjoy so much watching them eat each other over this. Heh heh.

[Voltaire99]

45. Who would Jesus gay-marry?

Now, it's not as if I'm urgently in favor of gay marriage, or even as if it is even any of my business. I'm only interested because when the majority seeks unfairly to control minorities, it offends my libertarian impulses.

But marriage?! Like Alexander Cockburn, I believe that gays and lesbians ought to think twice before buying into this institution. Just look what it's done to American heterosexuals! ;-)

That said, my blessing on any couple of any preference who want to take the risk. The Christians may hate you, but old Voltaire says oh, hell, go ahead--you might as well find out for yourselves. ;-)

[Cats Against Frist]

94. The more libertarian solution

is for the state not to recognize marriage, at all. Only civil contracts.

Oh, and extreme libertarians don't even believe in law-backed contracts.

[leesa]

46. I am so glad conservative christians are going to be screwed over!

They fully deserve it for their hate-filled agenda.

[VegasWolf]

51. I am definitely NOT a Christian, and for the life of me I cannot

why two people who love each other and want to spend
their lives together should not have the benefits of
marriage.

[Redstone]

52. Or they'll do what?

Not vote for him again?

It doesn't matter, you gullible fundamentalist halfwits; he's in his lame-duck second term, thanks to Rove's ability to play you for the fools you so transparently are, and he doesn't give even half of a flying fuck what you think anymore.

Didn't see that one coming, did you? Feel a little used, do you? Good.

You schmucks.

Redstone

[ruggerson]

54. Headline should read: Radical Clerics Give Bush Ultimatum

n/t

[Sugarbleus]

55. May the Ultra Conservative Xtians that helped put him into office

FEEL THE PAIN......Muahahahahahh

How does it feel to get stuffed by the (corrupt)politicians you thought were on your side???????? Maybe gawd took his "blessings" off ya for voting for the A N T I C H R I S T (you twits):evilgrin:

[jpgray]

57. That's for 06 and 08 (nt)

[TheFarseer]

58. How would banning gay marriage make Halliburton money?

Well, maybe it would save some cash on the health plan.

[NNguyenMD]

59. let the unraveling begin!!!

[NNguyenMD]

60. is it just me, or is this just an incredible opportunity we can use to our

advantage?

Bush is basically nutured without his nutcase fundie support! I say we exploit this weakness and cause as much friction as possible between the two sides.

[Colorado Blue]

62. That's what I'm thinking. I hope this "mandate" unravels

before it does too much harm. It's really a very strange collection of people with conflicting if not outright competing interests and a LOT of them are poor and likely to be hurt by Bushco's brilliant plans to raise money by hurting the poor some more.

Talk about unChristian.

Sheese.

[notadmblnd]

61. What are thye going to do?

Start a war?

[countmyvote4real]

66. Ha! Made me laugh. n/t

[mhr]

64. Watch This Video On Dominionists To Understand Our Enemy

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

More here:

http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

[aikido15]

81. I have been on this site...

Some pretty scary stuff...:scared:

[katinmn]

65. The anti-abortion contingent offered a similar demand

(will not back SS privatization unless he works to overturn RvW)

And I remember before the election, the NRA refused to endorse Bush unless and until he let the ban on assault weapons expire.

Hell -- everyone's cashing in their chips now!

Bush and Rove have painted themselves into a corner.

[aikido15]

82. Bush actually said he would...

Not seek immediate legislation. That instead he wants to promote an agenda that creates a respect for all life but women are going to have abortions, that's a fact.

I swear, if he means what he says (I don't trust him) it will be the only intelligent thing he has ever said!

[VegasWolf]

102. What bush says and what bush says ten minutes later are 3 different

things.

[Contrary1]

69. Well, there's an old saying in Tennessee...I know it's in Texas,

probably in Tennessee that says "Fooled you once, shame on you, fooled you again, shame on you, elect me and I will fool you some more, because as you have so willingly demonstrated, you can get fooled again and again and again and again..."

[PATRICK]

70. Are those loons

really still that sidetracked about the frenzy du jour or are they using it to wedge in the rest of their neglected agenda?

Too dumb to capitalize on success. Small wonder the plutocrats tire of placating them and ignore their rants and purge them occasionally.

[NAO]

71. Why don't they just threaten him with "Eternal Damnation" in Hell?

instead of threatening to withdraw support from his other agenda items. Seems like that would be a lot more scary to a 'true believer' like Brother Dubbya.

[MadisonProgressive]

73. What leverage do they have now that the election is over?

[NightOwwl]

74. Oh my god!

You mean he lied to them? He lied to get their vote?

This is a total shock to me...

NOT!

[SemperEadem]

78. Bluster, plain and simple

If Republicans do what they've done in the past, which is say, 'Thanks so much for putting us in power: now we don't want to talk to you any more', they will pay a serious price.

Like what? Join the liberal dems? Split the conservative party in half? Engineer their own political demise?

You got used like a $5 whore, so sit down and shut up until you're needed to put them in office again. NO one takes you all seriously to advance your intolerant agenda.

[aikido15]

79. Bush doesn't need them anymore....

They should give up their political agenda and be happy waiting on the "rapture" to happen.

Idiots!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

83. Damn! The show's starting early...

I don't even have my popcorn yet...

Shhh! Sit down in the front, please. It's time to watch the radical christian right get screwed.

From what I hear this is supposed to be a really funny show. ;)

[MadisonProgressive]

84. There is a God!!! The Fundies Undies are in a bunch!!

[queerart]

85. Bush Has Mounted A Tiger................

And He Can Not Get Off, For The Fear Of Being Eaten.......

He will indeed work for the zealots..... he has no choice....

Besides, in the end... It's a hobby for him to shove folks around..........

[aikido15]

87. OMG, I got a visual...

when I read your post. YUK, poor tiger!

[Clarkie1]

89. The religious right needs to start a third party n/t

[hyphenate]

92. He doesn't "need" them anymore

>>>>>>>"We couldn't help but notice the contrast between how the President is approaching the difficult issue of social security privatisation, where the public is deeply divided, and the marriage issue, where public opinion is overwhelmingly on his side," the leaked letter said.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I don't think 80% of this country cares one way or another in respect to this issue. And again, that fucker didn't get elected--the right wing took the election by multiple crimes.

And yes, many of us are deeply disturbed by the idea to initiate control of social security. And I think that some Democrats finally have the backbone to call this regime out for their very dangerous ideas. I only hope that some of the pukes will have a conscience and stop this regime from destroying everything in its path.

He's gotten what he wanted from the election--the chance to keep screwing us all. At least 52% of the people in this country will not hesitate to loudly debate almost any future policies of this shitty group. At least we hope that fear and brainwashing won't be used to break up that resolve many of us now have.

As for the radical religious right, I wish there was a way to get them to shut the fuck up in regard to governmental matters.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. Hmm, in my church, when one of the lay leaders was honored

for his years of service to the parish in various roles, they invited his partner to come up and be honored with him.

Today, our priest told the youth that they need to defend and befriend those who are outcasts in their schools, whether it's the nerds, or the people from ethnic minorities, or the GLBT youth.

Those alleged "guardians of traditional values" know they're on the losing side, and they're getting nasty.

[arwalden]

101. Haven't We Had ENOUGH Of This FAITH-BASED HATE?

When will it stop?!

[arwalden]

103. I Keep Hearing That These Aren't "True" Christians... Well Okay...

... so they aren't "true" Christians.

The logical question then becomes: Where *ARE* the "true" Christians? And if they exist in the numbers some would have us believe, why don't they loudly speak out against all this hatred and bigotry that's being done in the name of Christ?

Just asking.

[4dsc]

104. No such thing a GAY MARRIAGE

I just wish someone would tell these assholes that there's no such thing as gay marriage.. Not one state allows it thus it doesn't exist!!

[reichstag911]

105. so...

Who gives a fuck now what the religio-fascists want? Not Bush and Cheney, who were always about the money.