Obama is vulnerable on gun rights.

[SteveM]

For some time I and many others have pointed to Obama's position on guns: banning sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. Some say this position is not sourced; others said it is true. After some searching, here it is: http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?old=true&can_id=BS030017&npatform_id=69#7
This reveals Obama's position as indicated on the 1998 Illinois Legislative National Political Awareness Test, July 2, 1998. There is NO qualifier as to type of semi-auto, such as hunting, target, etc.

[derby378]

1. I would wager that most current Democratic candidates ARE vulnerable here

I think someone pointed out that Obama exempted hunting firearms in that ILNPAT, but I'd have to look it up.

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) would have been the least vulnerable candidate by far, had he declared a run in '08. He voted against the crime bill in 1994 and against reauthorization of the semi-auto ban in 2004.

Bill Richardson and Al Gore are the great unknowns at this point - Gore because his position on gun legislation has changed dramatically over the years, and Richardson because he's a relative newcomer to the national scene.

[SteveM]

2. The Vote-Smart site has NO qualifiers as to semi-auto type.

Obama may have changed his views, but this one is on record and is the most extreme anti-gun position of any of the candidates I have so far encountered. I will be looking at Richardson's record -- his is much more pro-2A, I have been told. I also saw a "hunting" gun qualifier on one posting, but that was for a later Vote-Smart test. NOTE: the latest Vote-Smart test was not responded to by Obama and was so noted in red letters.

[SteveM]

4. "Hunting" because that showed up as a qualifier.

A later National Political Awareness Test used the hunting qualifier. Not much of a difference to some, but in the interests of being accurate, I highlighted the distinction between this latest test and the earlier which had no qualifier. The purpose of this and other postings I have made is to get supporters of their candidates to engage their guy/gal EARLY so that they might overhaul their viewpoints; we all can change.

[derby378]

5. Way ahead of you...

I've got what appears to be Al Gore's private office address, and my letter's on the way to his desk. :hi:

[Boo Boo]

3. Hunting? Target? Let's not forget that the majority of pistols

sold for self defense are semi-automatic. Or, is he just addressing rifles?

Non-starter with me. Won't vote for a gun-banner.

[MaineProgressive]

6. I hope you guys are wrong

I've been supporting Obama as the only credible alternative to Hillary (whom I am not that excited about). If Obama is anti-gun, that's a big problem for me. I'll have to look into this more. Maybe John Edwards is the only choice. What's his position on gun control?

[benEzra]

7. Edwards left the campaign trail on Super Tuesday

to vote for what would have been the most sweeping gun ban in U.S. history (S.1431), had it passed; would have banned all civilian shotguns holding more than 5 shells, all pistols and rifles holding more than 10 rounds, rifles with handgrips that stick out, plus some of the most popular rifles in the country by name (Ruger mini-14, M1 carbine, AR-15, etc. etc.)

HOWEVER, I corresponded with him on the issue (he was my Senator, I'm in NC) and he had no idea what the ban actually covered; he was voting based on what he thought it covered.

I think Edwards' main problem on the gun issue is gullibility, stemming from ignorance of Federal firearms law, of guns, and of gun-owner demographics. Obama may be more idealogically committed to the issue, but I'm not sure.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

8. The Position is Not on Guns but Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles

There is a distinction. Let's hope he is making it and that he is supporting a ban on semi-automatic assault rifles.

[slackmaster]

9. Cited source says "all forms of semi-automatic weapons"

Not assault, not rifles.

[benEzra]

10. Only if you want a repeat of November 1994.

The Position is Not on Guns but Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles There is a distinction. Let's hope he is making it and that he is supporting a ban on semi-automatic assault rifles.

OK, half of all guns, then, depending on your definition of "semiautomatic assault rifle" (sic). That's still not going to fly.

"Semiautomatic assault weapons":




Ruger mini-14 Ranch Rifle



Benelli Steadygrip turkey hunting shotgun



Hammerli European competition target pistol, .22 caliber



preban Marlin Model 60 squirrel hunting rifle, .22 caliber



Smith & Wesson 3913 Ladysmith, 9x19mm




The first three guns above would be banned by H.R.1022; the fourth is a 5-year felony in New Jersey, and the fifth would have been banned as an "assault weapon" by Brady II due to its 8-round magazine.

Merely raising prices on replacement magazines for pistols in '94, and requiring civilian AR-15's to have fake adjustable stocks instead of real ones, cost the House and Senate, the '00 presidency (via TN and WV, never mind FL), and hurt Kerry/Edwards badly in '04. And for WHAT, since rifles are rarely used in crimes anyway, per the FBI.

Howard Dean has the right idea: enforce current Federal and state law regarding background checks, possession, and use, and leave further restrictions up to the states. California-style gun bans will NOT fly nationally, never mind UK/Austrialia-style confiscation.

[Turbo Teg]

31. There's no such thing as a semi-automatic "assualt rifle"

By definition an assualt rifle is a select fire weapon. Semi auto onlys are not select fire. If there is a ban on these Semi-auto rifles, hopefully it will ban them for police use aswell. There needs to be no exceptions for police officers, or departments. They should only have what normal civilians can have. As if we can't have it then they don't need it.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

11. Vulnerable?

I suspect he'll pick up more than a few votes for his posiiton.

[Turbo Teg]

32. And loose, many, many, many

many, more votes. Probably around 60 million or so.

[Paladin]

12. Move Along, Folks. Nothing New Here.

Just the usual batch of agents provocatures from DU's Gun Dungeon, kicking their quadrennial trashing of Democratic presidential hopefuls into high gear, once again. They did it to Gore, they did it to Kerry, and they'll certainly do it to whoever our nominee is, this time around. All for the mortal sin of not supporting the same gun policies being pimped by Dick Cheney, Ann Coulter, Ted Nugent, and all the other members of the notorious "Even A Stopped Clock Is Right Twice A Day" gang......

[benEzra]

13. Ummm...a ban-guns proponent resurrected this thread (it's from Februrary)...

the last post in this original thread was my May 9th post, I think. Way to kick it to the top of the list, though.

[Paladin]

14. Kick This, Mr. Methinks

Ummm....since when is the duration of a thread so important? I started a favorite short stories thread in the DU "Books-Fiction" Forum in May of 2005, and it's still active. And given your endless, feverish postings hereabouts, I think you'd slap a pro-gun message on a Dead Sea Scroll if you thought you could get away with it.

The age of this thread has nothing to do with my comments in post #12. Real-world Democrats need to know the depths to which you guncentrics will sink in trashing Democratic candidates who don't adhere to your right-wing firearms policies....

[benEzra]

15. Thoughts...

Look, I was a member of the John Kerry forum (now Common Ground Common Sense) a long time, long before the election. I NEVER trashed Senator Kerry, but I did try to get the campaign to THINK about the ramifications of their gun-rights-for-hunters-only position as it relates to gun-owner demographics, in light of the fact that half of gunnies are Dems and indies. I knew how it would go over, and I was right.

The party tried your approach of running hard on a ban-more-guns platform for a decade (1994 through 2004, longer if you count the Dukakis campaign in '88 that was a precursor of things to come), and it bombed in Middle America. The party leadership dropped it after the '04 loss, and we regained the House and Senate in '06, thanks in part to pro-RKBA candidates, and in part to the national party's assurances that NO new gun bans would be in the cards, including the much-hated AWB.

I understand how much you hate nonhunting guns, and those of us who own them. But pushing bans on the lawful purchase and ownership of popular civilian guns is bad for the party, and bad for Dem candidates, nationally. I'm trying to head that off.

Disagree with that contention all you want, but don't pretend that anybody who opposes running on a ban-more position is "trashing Democrats." Adopting the DLC ban-more agenda in the early '90s was what trashed the Dem trifecta in the first place (don't forget who controlled the House, the Senate, AND the presidency until the Feinstein ban went down). The ban-more-guns agenda is a dead end outside of a small handful of anti-gun states, and the sooner candidates recognize that, and understand that the gun issue is NOT about hunting whatsoever, the better for the party.

John Edwards has recently moderated his position on the issue, and is no longer advocating a protruding handgrip/magazine ban, but rather is talking about criminal gun possession and trafficking. That shift away from "let's see what popular guns we can ban" to "let's see what common ground we can find on getting guns out of criminal hands" is good for the party, and I hope to see it continue.

[Paladin]

16. Musings

If you want to exempt yourself from the DU Gun Dungeon's history of ugly treatment of Democratic office seekers, be my guest. DUers are free to access the archives and confirm things for themselves. The fact is that DU gun militants savaged John Kerry during the 2004 campaign. They enthusiastically joined Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and the NRA in mocking Kerry for that well-known goose hunt---even though Kerry has more experience with guns, both recreational and(God knows)militarily---than Dubya ever dreamed of. The militants also smeared Kerry over the way he was holding a gun in a photograph---really, I'm not making this up. And after this tidal wave of insults directed at a Democrat, you people clammed up and said comparatively little about a genuinely evil Republican, after he put a load of birdshot into a hunting companion's face and tried to cover the incident up. There were literally dozens of lively DU threads about the Cheney incident; I read all of them, and our resident gun bunch's contribution to them was negligible. Just goes to show the loathsome place in which you can end up as a result of radicalized, single-issue politics. Absolutely shameful. And we're fixing to go through the whole process again.

And as far as my supposedly hating you and your guns---don't flatter yourself. I am saddened by the effect that your sort and your preference for pistols and clunky, military-style weapons have had on the shooting sports; I think there is ample proof that you've rendered a once respectable activity more coarse, juvenile, violence-prone, and certainly more right wing. As I never tire of pointing out: the shooting sports were once represented by Ernest Hemingway, and now it's Ted Nugent; "Field & Stream" has been replaced by "Combat Pistol Death Quarterly" or something equally lurid. But I don't hate you. Quite frankly, you're not worth the effort......

[derby378]

17. Remember the words of Obi-wan Kenobi...

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

And, if I remember correctly, Obi-wan was no big fan of guns, either. Had a fondness for lightsabers.

Now exiting geek mode...

[Paladin]

18. Always Nice When An Opponent Proves Your Point

See my comment about the current crop of gun activists having rendered the shooting sports more juvenile. Down in the DU Gungeon, the maturity level on threads dealing with assault-style rifles is about the same as of a group of 13-year-old boys huddled around their first copy of "Playboy"......

[Turbo Teg]

33. YUP. That's us.

Sometimes we have to bring down the maturity level so some of the anti-gun ilk can understand us. Usually comon sense doesn't work, and I have a feeling anti gun people can't read either. If they could, they would be able to comprehend what the BOR says!

[dtremaine]

19. Democrats on gun control

I am a gun owner first and a moderate second. I have not yet seen a democrat candidate that is pro-gun on record. I hear them give lip service to gun owners, but check out their voting record. I hear people refer to the AWB as it does not effect me so it's ok. That is the furthest from reality. I never owned a semi-auto gun except a Ruger 10-22. This is because I reload and don't like chasing my brass. That is until 1989 when California passed their own AWB. From that day forward I started to buy as many as I could, rifles, shotguns, and handguns. This time around the democrats chose Obama. He has the worse voting record of any democrat President in history. Just because they stop using it as a platform position, does not change their beliefs.
Don

[drlefty]

20. Guns

Obama is right on time with respect to guns. It is high time that these instruments of death and destruction were banned, made illegal and removed from the grips of their bitter right wing owners. We don't need guns in this country...that time has passed. We don't need to hunt...we have grocery stores for those who insist upon consuming the flesh of other sentient beings. We have police, national guard and (god knows!) a huge military...so we don't need guns to defend ourselves. Get off the gun kick.

[samuraiguppy]

21. message deleted nt

[Eyal]

22. Looking for a PAC supporting Obama

Hi all,

I have recently created a short film supporting Obama. The film was created in Israel and it's meant to convince Jewish voters in general, and specifically in Florida, to vote for him. I am looking for a PAC's web site to post the film on. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Eyal

[drlefty]

23. So What?

Can't someone take a principled stand against the proliferation of these instruments of death and horror? I can't wait for the day when our Democratic leaders finally take the courageous step of eliminating all firearms from our society and I think a great many people out there (especially here on DU) feel as I do. Acts of courage and principle do not always constitute political liabilities.

[TheCML]

24. Its ironic that you are so anti gun

But yet you have a Che Guevara avatar. Actually I find it really funny. I also find it crazy that in this day and age you trust the same wiretapping, Katrina screwing up, government for all your protection needs. Im sorry but as a Democrat I want more freedom, not less. I find it usually only takes one incident of victimization for the anti gun crowd to be converted. Because if you think that guy coming in your window or door is going to wait 20 minutes for the Police to get there, you are sadly mistaken.

[paulthomson]

25. Well of course

When they don't have to even come close to telling the truth, it's pretty easy to just make sh*t up.

[anryboig]

26. Obama said in last speach that he will be president

Meanwhile, Obama said in last speach that he will be president: http://doiop.com/Obama-and-his-plan (full video 25min) If many times loudly say something, it will come true)))

[tucsonlib]

28. Hi. Welcome to DU.

Your link doesn't work and your last sentence makes no sense. That's what the "Preview" feature is for. Still time for you to edit!
But welcome aboard anyway........

[tucsonlib]

27. Bottom Line...

Politically, I would place myself slightly to the left of Bernie Sanders. I'm also a gun owner. On the list of critical issues affecting how I vote, gun control doesn't even make the top 20. Obama's not going to confiscate any one's guns. Trust me. Even McCain wouldn't try something that stupid. And if Obama wants to limit the capacity of my magazines to 10 rounds, should I freak out? It would be a stupid and ineffectual law, but it wouldn't cause me to feel any less "Free", or weaken my "Right to Bear Arms" in any meaningful way. And when you consider how Bush and Company have already trashed the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments, well......
So, bottom line, you can't reason with or convert the single-issue voter, whether their pet bugaboo is gun control, abortion or gay marriage. They just don't seem to care if the Republicans rob them of their money, their jobs, their homes or their civil rights....Jest so long as the gumment keeps their hands offa mah guns!!
So why should we pander to the Hopelessly Ignorant?

Screw 'em.

[Turbo Teg]

34. Well, if it's no big deal,

Why does everyone keep trying to take away my AR-15 and magazines? Can't they just say screw it, and let us keep our stuff? Then everyone would be happy!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Well, there goes the angry white male vote.

:sarcasm:

[fourvahl]

30. I have found other evidence

I like this site.. I think they do a good job at researching and this is what they had to say about Obama and NRA accusations about Obama...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/national-rifle-association/

[melanie1]

35. inspiring video on obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6y3fUcfVIk

[nidancricket]

36. thoughts

No one is really going to be thinking about gun rights on the forth.

I think the economy is the lead issue today. Maybe Iraq