Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in detention center

[David__77]

…

They paint a picture of a facility where doctors sometimes amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot.

…

“(The beatings) were not done to gather intelligence. They were done out of revenge,” said another whistleblower. “It was punishment for what they (the Palestinians) did on October 7 and punishment for behavior in the camp.”

…

The law permits the military to detain people for 45 days without an arrest warrant, after which they must be transferred to Israel’s formal prison system (IPS), where over 9,000 Palestinians are being held in conditions that rights groups say have drastically deteriorated since October 7. Two Palestinian prisoners associations said last week that 18 Palestinians – including leading Gaza surgeon Dr. Adnan al-Bursh – had died in Israeli custody over the course of the war.

…

For those who repeatedly breached the prohibition on speaking and moving, the punishment became more severe. Israeli guards would sometimes take a prisoner to an area outside the enclosure and beat him aggressively, according to two whistleblowers and al-Ran. A whistleblower who worked as a guard said he saw a man emerge from a beating with his teeth, and some bones, apparently broken.

…

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html

[Lonestarblue]

1. Israel's treatment of Palestinian prisoners sounds much like Nazi Germany.

Even before October 7, Israel had thousands of Palestinians in prison, many of them never even having a trial. Israel imprisons children for throwing rocks at IDF soldiers who are harassing and murdering protesters and leaves them there for years. I know there are good people in Israel but the country has been taken over by their own right-wing MAGA crowd. I shudder to think how this all ends.

[LuvLoogie]

3. The Israeli Right is its mainstream, its foundation.

I imagine that there have been many hopeful liberals that emigrated to Israel, but it seems that Israel has been trending progressively rightward since the killing of Rabin. Joe Biden can't follow Netanyahu into this abyss. The majority of Israelis have consistently chosen Netanyahu and this rightward trend. His callous arrogance left the Israelis vulnerable to his hubris. A boot on the neck and bulldozers, backed by overwhelming military might has been the effective policy, and the Israelis seem to want to continue this, with or without Netanyahu. The voices that want the land are the loudest and most indulged it seems.

And God just refilled his popcorn.

[womanofthehills]

73. CNN recreated the brutal scene

From descriptions by Israeli whistleblowers

https://youtube.com/shorts/jjcFxRsfUyw?si=zaQ7BiCNZWWNDgtC

[atreides1]

2. And?

I expect someone to justify these actions...with the magic word Hamas!

[onecaliberal]

9. They will be along.

[sarisataka]

11. Sort of how any mistreatment of Jews,

Mass rape or antisemitism anywhere in the world is justified with "Gaza" and a slew of dubious statistics?

Do you find it strange that I can say, such treatment of prisoners is wrong but,...





Nothing. It is wrong and I need not draw any comparison or parallel. No past or current action justifies these alleged crimes.

It should be fully investigated (hopefully by a new Israeli government) and any involved with such acts punished fully. Including any in the current government who have allowed such acts to happen.

[Cha]

71. Rec.. TY

[iemanja]

46. It violates the Geneva Convention

Remember that?

[Passages]

4. B'Tselem has been documenting IDF-Israeli gov. abuses for a long time.

https://www.btselem.org/


Breaking the Silence has as well, former IDF.
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

[3Hotdogs]

7. How many 7 story buildings does Tel Aviv have?

And not ok at Abu Ghraib but good against Hamas --- but just like A.G., these victims are suspects and not proven terrorists.

[Passages]

10. I don't know how many. The process has to go forward, interviews/investigations.

We'll see, the human rights groups among others, do honest work.

[AZLD4Candidate]

5. I guess the people who are anti-Israel now have their excuse to say "well, Hamas just does what those genocidal mad men

in Israel to. Taking hostages, murdering them, torturing them. . .meh. Raping them. . .meh. Israel is even worse."

I keep saying Israel is the most evil country on the planet.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

24. Or, and this may come as a shock, but the people here unhapppy with Israel

think that BOTH Hamas AND Israel are bad actors in this scenario.

But we get a lot of "war sucks" and "What about 10/7" when we point out that in addition to Hamas being a terrorist organization, the colonizers in Israel have killed 10s of thousands of innocents because of 10/7 which seems both overkill and genocide.

[sarisataka]

26. "colonizers"

that was one of the points used by the rape denialists who claim it was all Jewish propaganda. 'White European colonizers have a history of lying' so claims of rape cannot be believed until verified on an individual basis by non-Jews (because Jews lie).

[Cuthbert Allgood]

28. *checks my post*

Nope. Didn't say that or even imply it.

Specifically what I DID say though, was that I don't believe the government of Israel run by Trump's fascist bestie. That's a weird side for people to be on here. You see, I can think that the average citizen of Israel is likely a wonderful person who has nothing to do with the government and that Jewish people in other countries are also not to blame for what the government of Israel is going. While thinking that, I can also know that Bebe is a fucking fascist nightmare that wants all Palestinians to be gone. Because he's basically said that and is doing everything he can to make it possible. Amazing how the human brain can hold all those thoughts at one.

So stop with the "you're racist" bullshit. Not what I said. Not what I meant. I've been very clear with what I mean.

[sarisataka]

32. Check again...

the colonizers in Israel

I did not say "you're racist". I pointed out you are using the same terminology, that Jews in Israel are colonizers.

As for the current government in Israel, I have often been critical of it and advocated for change to allow the possibility of peace. I do not believe the current one wants any peace agreement.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

43. Are we pretending that Israel aren't colonizers?

Because they absolutely are. Like Israeli sociologists have said that. They came into a regions, claimed rights to the land, claimed those currently on the land didn't have rights to the land, and displaced them. And continued to displace them. How is this not something we all know?

[sarisataka]

44. If you are speaking of the illegal settlements

In the West Bank I would agree.

To blanket all Jews in Israel as colonizers ignores the many Jews that were living in the region pre-'47 and feeds the myth that Israel Jews are white Europeans.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

47. The country of Israel is like a textbook example of settler colonialism.

I'm not talking about some random citizen of Israel in 2024. Israel, the country, is a colonizer. But, yeah, they continue, as a country, to be colonizer with their expansion of settlements into Palestinian land. Plenty of people argue that that's not a bug but a feature.

[sarisataka]

49. How does that mesh

With UN Resolution 181(II)? The word colony, nor any variation on it, appears in the document.

[obamanut2012]

30. Where did the poster state any of that?

[sarisataka]

33. Where did I say the poster said any of that?

I noted they are using the same term for Israeli Jews, colonizers, as the denialists.

[obamanut2012]

39. Oh stop, you know what you did

[sarisataka]

41. So I didn't say that

Thank you

I will not stop pointing out pejorative language regardless of whom it is directed towards.

[obamanut2012]

51. You know what you did

[Celerity]

34. Hamas mass raping's a war crime, yet you said you used language that implied you were going to rape another man's wife

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218934640#post21

One time at Nogales, the guy got in my face and screamed at me "you will tell me where you live." I calmly responded "in about an hour part of my will be living in your wife's pussy."

Dismaying to see that on DU.

[obamanut2012]

40. JFC I cannot believe that post

Wow. I cannot believe it was allowed to stand. Threatening to rape a man's wife should be bannable.

[Voltaire2]

52. sometimes it is a good thing that the truly awful things posted here don't disappear.

[Sky Jewels]

61. Jesus.

That is all kinds of fucked up.

[Chainfire]

35. I wonder if you believe that one sin justifies the other?

Or do you just deny that the government of Israel is mistreating prisoners?

[IronLionZion]

38. Instead of competing over who is more brutally violent

how about who is trying to work out a peaceful solution for the future? So far, it sounds like nobody wants peace.

[AZLD4Candidate]

42. No Oct 7th. No war. That simply. No Pearl Harbor. No war.

Can't have a peaceful solution when one side is dedicated to the other's destruction.

Hamas wants to eradicate Israel and can't. Israel could eradicate the Palestinians but won't.

Isn't it amazing that Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt didn't attack Israel and nothing has happened to them? Makes you wonder why Oct 7th has been forgotten.

Oh, I know the reason but if I say, people won't like it.

Israel wants to be left alone. Notice there wasn't anything like war up until Oct 6th.

[IronLionZion]

50. Egypt and Jordan have had peaceful relations with Israel for over 4 decades

Peace is possible if people give it a chance

[AZLD4Candidate]

70. Then get Hamas to not attack Israel anymore. Peace isn't a one way street.

[Celerity]

55. They wouldn't be doing military-protected fascist RW settler West Bank illegal land grabs as OFFICIAL STATE POLICY if so

Israel wants to be left alone.

[Oopsie Daisy]

6. Hamas propaganda.

[David__77]

8. The Israeli whistleblowers are with Hamas? Or CNN?

[Orrex]

16. Everyone who doesn't praise Netanyahu's murderous campaign is a Hamas propagandist

And an antisemite, as well.

Haven't you heard?

[obamanut2012]

20. wth

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. Might just be me, but between whistleblowers and Trump's fascist bestie,

I'll go with the whistleblowers.

[flying_wahini]

12. The time for Arguing who is on the right side is OVER. Israel has lost and just doesn't know it yet.

You can kill a whole country of people but it won’t make you correct or a hero.

[AZLD4Candidate]

14. Prove they are doing that without using numbers provide by the Hamas led Gaza government please.

[Orrex]

57. Exactly who TF do you think you are to demand proof?

Oh, wait. You're the one who mused about committing rape:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218934640#post21

So maybe you should stop pretending that you have standing to demand anything from anyone.

[obamanut2012]

60. I was shocked to see his post about raping a man's wife wasn't hidden

That used to get you banned from here.

[Orrex]

66. I agree. Others have been summarily banned for much less.

It's probably worth taking a screen shot of that horrible post, so that it can be cited later if he pulls the Dirty Delete.

[Celerity]

82. I did upthread, early, in a reply to them.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218937443#post34

[Orrex]

85. Thank you again

[Celerity]

86. YW.

[Hekate]

65. That's pretty raw and aggressive, all right. I missed that.

[Orrex]

67. Thanks to Celerity for handling it in real time and for citing it here in this thread

As is so often true, Maya Angelou said it best:
“When people show you who they are, believe them.”

[Hekate]

68. Yes

[womanofthehills]

74. I reported it as I'm sure others did

And the jury let it stand?????

Totally disgusting post!!

[Hekate]

94. If you alert again it takes you to a comment form to let the Admins know what you think...

You won’t necessarily see the result, but it gives the Admins a heads-up.

[malaise]

13. But Hamas

Ah well!

[Orrex]

18. Some here are calling for a full census of dead Palestinians

Otherwise they aren't dead, apparently.

[IronLionZion]

23. Some here think the real problem is not enough have died

[Mossfern]

53. Please provide documentation of that allegation

I have not seen anything like that.

[IronLionZion]

64. It's hardly a war when it's a densely populated walled in area with no escape

there's no avoiding civilians dying when bombing such a place. People who want to continue this strategy are wanting more people to die. That includes aid workers and hostages, many have died already.

[Mossfern]

69. So then....

maybe Hamas should not have instigated the war and retreated to a densely populated area.
No? What response do you think that Israel should have taken to the 10/7 provocation?

What concrete measures do you think that Israel needs to take to defend itself from attacks.
Yes, I do think (personally as I don't speak for anyone else) that the illegal settlements in the West Bank should be dismantled and attacks by zealot settlers on Palestinians there should be prosecuted.

[obamanut2012]

21. Right here in this thread, Malaise

[Orrex]

27. They have only two cards to play, and they play them endlessly

1. "It's all Hamas' fault"/"You're pro-Hamas"

2. "Criticism of Netanyahu is antisemitic"/"You're antisemitic"

Ad infinitum.

[obamanut2012]

31. Or What about October 7?

And if you say, how does that negate Gaza? HAMAS HAMAS HAMAS

My God.

[iemanja]

45. Don't forget "raze all of Gaza"

"and let Hamas rule over the rubble." That was a real winner.
It's all the more chilling since Gaza is filled with rubble as is, but it's not enough to satisfy some.

[Mossfern]

54. Neither have I seen any posts like this

please provide a link or documentation.

[Orrex]

58. I have personally been so accused a number of times, thanks.

And IDGAF if you believe it or not, because your opinion means less than nothing to me.

Tell you what, I'll pull the move that one of Bibi's cheerleaders has pulled repeatedly: prove that no one has made those accusations.

If it's good enough for a fan of civilian slaughter, then it should suffice here, too.

[obamanut2012]

59. I stand 100% with you on this

I have been accused of this, too, many times.

[Mossfern]

63. Accused of what?

[obamanut2012]

92. Lol

[Celerity]

88. #metoo

[David__77]

78. It is good to study those spokespersons' tactics.

[iemanja]

72. Look through the posts in this thread

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18922916

[Mossfern]

75. OK, I read the enitre thread (again)

and I didn't see posts like that.

Can you please link to a post that specifically does this?
I did spend quite of bit of time looking for it, and would appreciate you just doing that.

[iemanja]

76. Much of the thread

says that pro-Palestinian protestors by their very nature are anti-semetic. It says it comes from a deep anti-semetism that the article claims prevades academia. You claimed to have never seen any allegation that concern for Palestinian lives = anti=semetism, when it fact the allegation is common.

One of the respondents says the protests come from "jew hating."

[Mossfern]

77. Can you link to that particular post?

I would say that some of the protests come from Jew hating, but many are merely misinformed and manipulated. Please don't tell me that you see no Jew hating at these protests.

[iemanja]

79. Here

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18923541

Are the Israelis who protests informed and manipulated as well? I don't suppose it occurs to you that some people on the planet are actually capable of caring about human life, even if it's Palestinian?

[Mossfern]

81. Actually I do feel a *bit* of latent Jew hating as well

I don't know, it could be that I'm a bit more sensitive to this as I'm Jewish - there is the feeling that there are some who think that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself. Growing up with family tales of oppression and violence would explain that sensitivity. With the world against you just for existing and no place to go when things may get really bad (as our history proves), the threat of the only place to turn to (Israel) to not exist is an existential threat to Jewish people.

The blood of the victims on 10/7 had not even yet clotted before there were crowds on the street against Israel even before it had responded to the attack. People celebrating the murder and torture of one's "people" is traumatizing. Those killed or taken hostage on that day were not combatants - as a matter of fact, many were supporters of the Palestinian cause.

Posters who are criticizing with acerbic remarks about Israel's initial response who have not supplied any reasonable alternative of[ ways for Israel to protect itself instead of the current course of action are not helpful. Using hyperbole in claiming "Genocide" doesn't help.

Eradicating Hamas does not equal the call to kill all Palestinians. The inference that Israelis are targeting women and children is a biased assumption - while there is no condemnation of Hamas'
intention of destroying all of Israel and killing all Jews.

I don't see condemnation of protesters shouting "Go back to Poland" to Jewish students from those who are of the anti-Israel pro-Palestinian persuasion.

As far as the Israelis who protest in Israel - I support them 100%. Of course they are well informed - they are living the horror.

Please don't conflate defense of Israel with defense of Netanyahu or Likud .

Maybe I misunderstood your post?

[iemanja]

83. I find the hostage taking and attacks on Oct 7 horrific

and I grieve for those lives and those families who have no idea the condition of their loved ones. Defending one's homeland does not mean wiping Gaza off the face of the map, as seems to be Netanyahu's goal. To defend the war is to defend Netanyahu's execution of that war. It is that which is the problem, not that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself and take out Hamas fighters. The problem lies in the mass destruction of Gaza, the killings of many more civilians than Hamas fighters in Gaza, and the Israeli right's seizure of the opportunity to take more land and kill people in the West Bank.

So you say the protests are the result of propaganda, yet you also say defense of Israel is not the same as support of Likud. Yet you insist we support Netayahu's execution of that war. I do not. And I do not believe I am subject to propaganda. I don't like to see death and destruction, and I believe both Israeli and Palestinian lives have value. Everyone doesn't seem to feel the same way.

And yes, some of the protestors are complete, anti-semetic assholes, but that doesn't mean they all are and that the protests by nature are illegitimate.

[Mossfern]

87. Nowhere did I say that I support wiping Gaza off the face of the map!

Did you even understand my response?
Nowhere do you acknowledge that Hamas is in any way responsible for the destruction in Gaza.
It's been said infinitum that if Hamas would surrender and return the Israeli hostages that the war would be over. Why do you put the onus on Israel when it is Hamas that instigated the war?
If Hamas doesn't want the death of innocent Palestinians, then they wouldn't fight amongst them.

Hamas hides among innocent Gazan civilians and families - has even admitted that they use the blood of Palestinians as propaganda weapons - yet somehow some people just don't believe them.

This is just frustrating.

[iemanja]

89. Hamas is responsible for its actions

for taking the hostages, keeping the hostages, and the attacks on oct 7 and since. Netanyahu is responsible for HOW he has executed the war. You want to absolve the Israeli government of responsibility for its own actions. That doesn't work.

[Mossfern]

90. Where did I absolve the Israeli government of it's actions?

Is this some sort of alternative uinverse?

[iemanja]

93. Verbatim

Nowhere do you acknowledge that Hamas is in any way responsible for the destruction in Gaza.
It's been said infinitum that if Hamas would surrender and return the Israeli hostages that the war would be over. Why do you put the onus on Israel when it is Hamas that instigated the war?

[iemanja]

80. Continuing my response above

Israelis who oppose the war: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-31-2024-2dfbc154409ae6160b4e594b1b346e13

This must be the kind of propaganda that has brainwashed them. https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18887167

Imagine seeing that level of destruction and actually caring! It's like they are human or something.

[Mossfern]

62. Post number?

[Chainfire]

36. Indeed...

[BannonsLiver]

48. "Freedom fighters against the evil west just like Mandela"

[IronLionZion]

15. Doesn't look like that conflict has many "good guys", just bad guys all around.

As if we don't already have too many brutal extremists in this world.

[haele]

17. Switch to Darfur. It's way worse. Both sides tribal conflicts, with genocide ,rapes, famine...

But both sides are considered equally ignorant, savage African tribes (just another indigenous conflict somewhere that doesn't matter), so I guess it just doesn't have the same urgency as a supposedly modern Western culture being attacked a bunch of backwards Tribal goat herders who hate them for their education and wealth or something like that.
Face it, no one "who matters" cares about violence against people of color wherever it is. Especially if they're sitting on top of natural resources wealthier countries and warlords want to control access to.

We ignore African problems at our environmental and socio-political peril.
If Israel did not have so many ties to European culture - or frankly, Christian history - would the Western world really care?
Without those cultural ties, would Israelis and Palestinians be considered as important to care about as other endangered ethnic groups like Sikhs or Uyghars?

Haele

[IronLionZion]

22. Israel doesn't have much natural resources and limited farmable land

that conflict is at it's most simplest: Jews from everywhere in the world want a homeland in the holy land. People who already live there don't want to leave.

Yeah Darfur is really bad so the west doesn't have much interest in it. Tigray is another one with some interest here in the DC area since we have tons of Ethiopian Americans.

Nigeria is an interesting one in that we all know Boko Haram is bad news but Nigerians don't like the US military presence there.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. The cruelty is the point.

[Goddessartist]

29. Not surprised

at all. Mass graves as well with clear signs of torture. Dehumanization of an entire people. It's all on Israel. The 'most moral army'.

[David__77]

56. The dehumanization is striking.

[leftstreet]

91. +1

[Chainfire]

37. There is simply no way to justify torturing prisoners, therefore

you must deny or deflect. The argument doesn't need to meet any standards of truthfulness or compassion, but just to be consistent and passionate in the defense. That kind of argument only impresses the faithful. The rest of us see right through it.

[Iggo]

84. Calling it a war crime is antisemitic, though.

(Straps on whataboutism-retardant nard protection…)

[red dog 1]

95. K&R

Thanks for posting.