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BREAKING: New indictment against Paul Manafort and Rick Gates (Original Post) MelissaB Feb 2018 OP
I thought all of this stuff was sealed! Ilsa Feb 2018 #1
Yes, maybe what they were talking about yesterday - The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #3
Indictment by GJ today, was not under seal unc70 Feb 2018 #13
Wow. The under-seal stuff must be the Ilsa Feb 2018 #16
Who knows? unc70 Feb 2018 #18
This is worth reading. I'm just sayin'. MelissaB Feb 2018 #2
In total, more than $75,000,000 flowed through the offshore accounts. MelissaB Feb 2018 #4
Coming up on MSNBC with Nicolle Wallace. nt Ilsa Feb 2018 #5
WaPo article BumRushDaShow Feb 2018 #6
Income Tax Returns? HipChick Feb 2018 #7
32 counts of Tax Evasion, Money Launderin' and Bank Fraud. Manafort's gotta flip or die in prison. MelissaB Feb 2018 #8
I hope Gates has the same opportunity. It's a longer lifespan. Screw him. dem4decades Feb 2018 #17
Does he? Wont Trump just pardon him? davekriss Feb 2018 #37
so...Gates not pleading guilty and cooperating? barbtries Feb 2018 #9
This is GJ in Virginia - other indictment is DC GJ Justice Feb 2018 #10
Thank you MelissaB once again!! I have been patiently awaiting todays BAD NEWS FOR Leghorn21 Feb 2018 #11
This is truly horrible news, guys NewsCenter28 Feb 2018 #12
Well damn, 28. And I was bouncing with joy...but, well, I shall keep the faith that Mr. Schneiderman Leghorn21 Feb 2018 #23
Do not panic. Gates might be hesitating. This will help him decide in Mueller's favor. Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2018 #27
I'm disappointed, too, but it doesn't mean the articles were all lies. pnwmom Feb 2018 #30
Why would they protect him when they are up against the worst? smirkymonkey Feb 2018 #31
Take a fall, then get pardoned ... aggiesal Feb 2018 #41
Maybe they figure they got nothing to lose. C Moon Feb 2018 #32
So neither of these guys are willing to spill the beans?? Docreed2003 Feb 2018 #14
That's why state charges are so important NewsCenter28 Feb 2018 #19
Maybe they're afraid of Russian mob retribution against them or their families. n/t pnwmom Feb 2018 #29
Very true... Docreed2003 Feb 2018 #34
Another possibility is that during his Queen for a Day (proffer session) Gates lied, pnwmom Feb 2018 #36
They could agree to do a Sammy the Bull and disappear. mobeau69 Feb 2018 #40
Honest Question: Books_Tea_Alone Feb 2018 #15
Reason #1 to avoid business dealings with the Russian Mob NightWatcher Feb 2018 #21
Russia has a long record of poisoning people who pose a threat to Putin. procon Feb 2018 #22
If they truly cared for their families.... Generic Brad Feb 2018 #24
mannafort might be more afraid of putin than muehler, but.... getagrip_already Feb 2018 #33
sweet, lyrical, and poetic BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #20
And Boom! BumRushDaShow Feb 2018 #25
This is Low Hanging Fruit for Mueller Ccarmona Feb 2018 #26
they dont care, maybe they made a deal that trump would pardon them AlexSFCA Feb 2018 #28
could this be why Gates' attorney left/got fired today? yonder Feb 2018 #35
The Apprentice will tweet: Hassler Feb 2018 #38
How to crack a nut, by Bob Mueller. Historic NY Feb 2018 #39
Maybe Mueller making a statement to Manafort That bluestarone Feb 2018 #42

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
3. Yes, maybe what they were talking about yesterday -
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:39 PM
Feb 2018

a document in the case that was just filed but was still sealed.

unc70

(6,095 posts)
13. Indictment by GJ today, was not under seal
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:52 PM
Feb 2018

This indictment is from the Grand Jury today. That would indicate that the filing yesterday is something different.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
16. Wow. The under-seal stuff must be the
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:54 PM
Feb 2018

"We helped Trump help russia throw the election and trump is a traitor."

BumRushDaShow

(127,327 posts)
6. WaPo article
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:40 PM
Feb 2018
Special counsel Mueller files new charges in Manafort, Gates case

By Devlin Barrett and Spencer S. Hsu February 22 at 4:27 PM

New charges were filed Thursday against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business partner, ratcheting up the legal pressure on them as they prepare for a trial later this year.

A new indictment has long been expected in special counsel Robert S. Mueller IIIs prosecution of Manafort and his right-hand man, Rick Gates, on fraud and money laundering charges. Manafort served as President Trumps campaign chairman from June to August 2016. Gates also served as a top official on Trumps campaign. The new indictment contains 32 counts, including tax charges.

The filing Thursday comes at a time of significant uncertainty in the case about when a trial might happen, or even who the defense lawyers will be. Last week, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson criticized both sides for what she called unacceptable delays in a case which still doesnt have a trial date set.

Manafort and Gates were hit with a 12-count indictment in October the first criminal charges in Muellers probe of Russian interference with the 2016 election. That indictment focused not on events in the 2016 race but financial transactions involving work by Manafort and Gates for a Ukrainian political party, and their failure to notify U.S. authorities that they were allegedly acting as lobbyists for a foreign government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-mueller-files-new-charges-in-manafort-gates-case/2018/02/22/7db99c9c-1716-11e8-8b08-027a6ccb38eb_story.html

MelissaB

(16,420 posts)
8. 32 counts of Tax Evasion, Money Launderin' and Bank Fraud. Manafort's gotta flip or die in prison.
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:42 PM
Feb 2018

BOOM x 32! 32, count 'em, 32 counts of Tax Evasion, Money Launderin' and Bank Fraud. Manafort's gotta flip or die in prison. - Tea Pain

Leghorn21

(13,520 posts)
11. Thank you MelissaB once again!! I have been patiently awaiting todays BAD NEWS FOR
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:47 PM
Feb 2018

MANAFORT blurb and MY OH MY, what a delicious blurb it is!!






NewsCenter28

(1,835 posts)
12. This is truly horrible news, guys
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:52 PM
Feb 2018

It is downright awful, actually. This means that the Rick Gates plea deal articles were all lies and that Gates and Manafort are willing to throw away their lives for Trump. Without Gates or Manafort's testimony, the SC investigation ain't going nowhere. Wonder why Gates' minions spread the falsehood that he was copping a plea?

I don't care if Gates or Manafort go to jail. I want Trump and his mob out and frog-marched. These indictments mean that goal has taken a giant step backwards.

I think AG Schneiderman has to nail Manafort and Gates on state charges now to bring Manafort and Gates to the table and to their knees.

Fuckity fuck!

Leghorn21

(13,520 posts)
23. Well damn, 28. And I was bouncing with joy...but, well, I shall keep the faith that Mr. Schneiderman
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 06:01 PM
Feb 2018

will skillfully deliver some goods to us, and...and that maybe Mr. Mueller doesn’t need these fuckheads to deliver the king of fuckheads to us...

Seriously, can’t Flynn help us out here?
Isn’t Jared in deep shit?

Well, no need to reply, I shall scramble about to try to gain a better understanding here as I meanwhile keep the faith-

Thank you -

Oy.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,790 posts)
27. Do not panic. Gates might be hesitating. This will help him decide in Mueller's favor.
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:01 PM
Feb 2018

Without real news about what's going on behind the scenes, you have jumped to a conclusion and are now stating it and treating it as if your conclusion is an established fact. No. It is not. Far from it.

Relax. Tamp down your speculation and maintain a calm open mind.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
30. I'm disappointed, too, but it doesn't mean the articles were all lies.
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:23 PM
Feb 2018

It could mean that Gates DID have his proffer session (Queen for a Day interview), but he lied in the course of it, and Mueller called the very favorable deal off.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
31. Why would they protect him when they are up against the worst?
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:24 PM
Feb 2018

What could possibly be motivating them to spare that crooked old fool at their own expense? I don't get it.

C Moon

(12,188 posts)
32. Maybe they figure they got nothing to lose.
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:31 PM
Feb 2018

Hoping Trump and Pence become supreme rulers, and they'll be set free. They gotta know a fuck of a lot more than us, about how deep this goes.

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
14. So neither of these guys are willing to spill the beans??
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:53 PM
Feb 2018

Must be some terrible shit they’re hiding, that or Trump has sent the message that he’ll pardon them.

NewsCenter28

(1,835 posts)
19. That's why state charges are so important
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:55 PM
Feb 2018

You are correct, yes. If AG Schneiderman nails them hard, they can't count on their precious pardon from the fascist Nazi in the W.H. anymore.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
36. Another possibility is that during his Queen for a Day (proffer session) Gates lied,
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:49 PM
Feb 2018

and Mueller called off the deal.

If Gates attempts to negotiate another plea deal, the next deal won't be as good as the first -- and he can't lie.

As it is now, if he goes to trial, anything he said during the proffer can be used against him. And if his testimony at trial differs from what he said in the proffer, new charges can be pressed for lying.

Books_Tea_Alone

(253 posts)
15. Honest Question:
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:54 PM
Feb 2018

What if neither Manafort or Gates cooperate or flip? Yes I understand they are facing years in prison but Russian mob may be threatening their families if they sing. As I understand Gates has a wife and four young children- he may be contemplating life in prison to remain quiet and save them from harm? Same for Manafort's children. Is this a possibility?

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
21. Reason #1 to avoid business dealings with the Russian Mob
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 06:00 PM
Feb 2018

They played stupid games and are about to win stupid prizes.

They'll die in prison.

procon

(15,805 posts)
22. Russia has a long record of poisoning people who pose a threat to Putin.
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 06:01 PM
Feb 2018

It would not be at all surprising if Russian agents have contacted both of these guys, reminding them of how vulnerable their families are if they spill the beans.

getagrip_already

(14,251 posts)
33. mannafort might be more afraid of putin than muehler, but....
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:32 PM
Feb 2018

It sounds like gates has already gone through with a profer; his "queen for a day" testimony.

That means he has already spilled his guts, and regardless of whether he follows through on it, muehler knows everything he knew. It's too late for him to back out.

Mannafort on the other hand, is using a different calculation.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
20. sweet, lyrical, and poetic
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 05:56 PM
Feb 2018

bank fraud, tax scams, and throw in money laundering. We knew it, now Trump knows we know it. His fucking RW loser Trumpeteers

I suppose he could be inking up his exoneration/pardon pen, but I don't care. The poo is hitting the fan with ever increasing speed.

 

Ccarmona

(1,180 posts)
26. This is Low Hanging Fruit for Mueller
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 06:43 PM
Feb 2018

He is showing the rest of the conspirators that he is looking at everything. This was the “paper” case that we knew was out there.

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
28. they dont care, maybe they made a deal that trump would pardon them
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 07:19 PM
Feb 2018

in his pardon he will say the charges are politically motivated therefore pardon. Autoritarian rule is no joke.

bluestarone

(16,722 posts)
42. Maybe Mueller making a statement to Manafort That
Thu Feb 22, 2018, 08:39 PM
Feb 2018

We got you on Charges tRUMPY CAN'T pardon?? Just saying

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