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rgbecker

(4,806 posts)
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 09:00 AM Apr 2018

RE: Starbucks: I was a juror at a Trespassing Trial.

I was a juror for a trespassing trial. Here’s what happened: Local known jerk was in a tavern, sitting at the bar, not ordering anything and watching pool game. No testimony of talking, yelling, fighting or any other un-social behavior. Owner doesn’t like him. Called police and told them he was trespassing. Cops arrested him and threw him in jail. We went to the juror’s room. I told everyone I wasn’t going convict the guy no matter what. I said that if a business opens up, asking the public to come in and spend their time and money at their place, they had to accept everyone regardless of their reputation unless that person misbehaved or was notified with a posted sign they weren’t allowed and for what reason. (This was done at other local establishments, listing fighters, bad check writers etc.) As it turned out, everyone there agreed, even the one juror that seemed to know about prior problems the jerk had with local businesses etc. We returned to the court to deliver our not guilty verdict. The judge was somewhat visibly surprised and immediately called the DA and Attorneys to the bench. We were dismissed and that was that. Oh, and by the way, the Jerk was African American as was the one person who had knowledge of prior behavior. I mentioned to that juror that she needed to tell the courts officer that she had knowledge of the defendant and that she really shouldn’t be talking about prior behavior to the jurors, but no body seemed much concerned about that.

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RE: Starbucks: I was a juror at a Trespassing Trial. (Original Post) rgbecker Apr 2018 OP
Kicking this to give West Coasters a view. n/t rgbecker Apr 2018 #1
Should be seen malaise Apr 2018 #2
If you're going to lecture another juror about their responsibility mythology Apr 2018 #3
Exactly Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #5
A juror has a lot of power if they are willing use it. rgbecker Apr 2018 #6
There is no violation of Oath here fescuerescue Apr 2018 #7
Thank you EffieBlack Apr 2018 #8
What a crock of BS. NutmegYankee Apr 2018 #9
Why do you even think we have juries? kcr Apr 2018 #19
Cops exist to protect property and hunt down people escaping slavery. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2018 #4
Just out of curiosity.. Kentonio Apr 2018 #10
As I remember, the owner told him to leave, when he didn't leave, he called the cops. rgbecker Apr 2018 #13
If he wasnt buying anything and the owner asked him to leave, then how is that not trespassing? Kentonio Apr 2018 #17
The Judge was surprised because you guys got it wrong. Captain Stern Apr 2018 #11
I may have said that but the law states simply that some trespasses if he is on the property without rgbecker Apr 2018 #14
Internet lawyers internetting. kcr Apr 2018 #20
Trespassing bluecollar2 Apr 2018 #12
This! rgbecker Apr 2018 #15
You should have used the bathroom bluecollar2 Apr 2018 #16
I would have just for the fun of it.... rgbecker Apr 2018 #18
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
3. If you're going to lecture another juror about their responsibility
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 03:58 PM
Apr 2018

perhaps you should make sure you aren't violating the oath you took as a juror to deliver a verdict based on the law, not your own personal feelings on what the law should be.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
5. Exactly
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 04:14 PM
Apr 2018

By totally disregarding the law and ruling in the exact opposite of what the law said you pretty much ignored the oath you took.

rgbecker

(4,806 posts)
6. A juror has a lot of power if they are willing use it.
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 06:52 PM
Apr 2018

I didn't lecture anyone about their responsibility, I simply stated how I would vote and why. They could have voted opposite and caused the trial to be declared a mistrial. I think it would be hard to convict of trespassing without a posted limit, showing where the trespasser passes into an area prohibited. How is one to know if he is not a member of the special club that is allowed while others, seeming also to be members of the public, unknown to the owner, are not arrested? Is it possible that at one minute one is a welcome member of the public and the next, a trespasser without any change in behavior and without exhibiting any behavior different from the public members not charged with trespassing? Clearly its up to the jury to determine what this so called trespassing charge really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification_in_the_United_States

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
7. There is no violation of Oath here
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 11:08 PM
Apr 2018

Jurors have the absolute right to invoke the totality of their being and not convict for any reason, including a belief that the charge is a miscarriage of justice despite being a violation of the letter of the law.

It's -why- we have a jury of peers system.

Google jury nullification.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
8. Thank you
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 11:19 PM
Apr 2018

I can’t believe the extent to which Democrats are defending the indefensible.

We have so far to go in this country.

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
9. What a crock of BS.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:07 AM
Apr 2018

Part of the reason for Jury trials is so that jurors can serve as another check on unjust laws. If a jury feels that a law is unjust, it can acquit anyone accused of it and effectively render it unenforceable.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
19. Why do you even think we have juries?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:46 PM
Apr 2018

The OP did exactly what they were supposed to for the reasons juries were set up in the first place.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
10. Just out of curiosity..
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 05:06 AM
Apr 2018

Had the owner asked them to leave and they'd refused? Or did the owner just immediately jump to calling the cops simply because the guy was sitting there without ordering?

rgbecker

(4,806 posts)
13. As I remember, the owner told him to leave, when he didn't leave, he called the cops.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:26 PM
Apr 2018

Once again: No posting about having to buy anything, no testimony that he did anything anyone else was not doing. No posting that he wasn't allowed in the place because of previous issues.

Even places that post "no shirt, no shoes, no service" don't usually call cops unless there is some behavior that offends other customers or something

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
17. If he wasnt buying anything and the owner asked him to leave, then how is that not trespassing?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:22 PM
Apr 2018

The owner is running a business not a social club surely? Those are seats that could be used by paying customers.

Captain Stern

(2,197 posts)
11. The Judge was surprised because you guys got it wrong.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:58 AM
Apr 2018

You, yourself, said:

"I said that if a business opens up, asking the public to come in and spend their time and money at their place, they had to accept everyone regardless of their reputation unless that person misbehaved or was notified with a posted sign they weren’t allowed and for what reason."



You said the guy wasn't ordering anything, so obviously he wasn't spending his time and money in the business, like he was supposed to.

rgbecker

(4,806 posts)
14. I may have said that but the law states simply that some trespasses if he is on the property without
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:31 PM
Apr 2018

owner's permission. I think it was up to me to determine if he had permission to be on the property and I think if a business opens the doors to the public, then he has to take whatever comes in. I'm not defending miss behavior and there was none in this case. Many people go to taverns, pubs, coffee shops simply to go. If businesses don't want that, they have to initiate a cover charge or something.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
20. Internet lawyers internetting.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:54 PM
Apr 2018

They are clueless as usual. There's nothing wrong with the way you voted. It's the whole reason we have a jury system.

bluecollar2

(3,622 posts)
12. Trespassing
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:48 AM
Apr 2018

Is entering a property without permission.

You open your doors you are giving permission for people to enter.

Absent a "no loitering" or other signage indicating an expectation of a commercial transaction in exchange for entry I agree with you.

I enter businesses all the time and leave without buying anything.

bluecollar2

(3,622 posts)
16. You should have used the bathroom
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:10 PM
Apr 2018

While you were there.

I'd bet the mortgage nobody would have said anything.

rgbecker

(4,806 posts)
18. I would have just for the fun of it....
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 01:47 PM
Apr 2018

But I thought I heard sirens and I got the hell outta there! My two minutes were up! LOL!

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