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Mon May 21, 2018, 04:13 PM

Can Americans ditch guns the way we ditched cigarettes?

Not that long ago, cigarettes were completely woven into American culture. The Marlboro Man, posters telling us that “more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette,” even the armrests on planes and all our cars were designed for smokers.

And now? Not so much. Can it work like that with guns?

Because after another horrific school shooting — eight students and two teachers massacred at Santa Fe High School outside Houston on Friday — we are nearly out of fresh ideas.

“I know some have strong feelings about gun rights but I want you to know I’ve hit rock bottom and I am not interested in your views as it pertains to this issue,” Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo wrote in a Facebook post. “Please do not post anything about guns aren’t the problem, and there’s little we can do.” The only relief in sight is the end of the school year. How’s that for a solution?



Whole Column by Petula Dvorak here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/can-americans-ditch-guns-the-way-we-ditched-cigarettes/2018/05/21/c5394db0-5cfd-11e8-b2b8-08a538d9dbd6_story.html?utm_term=.3d502f4df6f9&wpisrc=nl_buzz&wpmm=1

22 replies, 1325 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can Americans ditch guns the way we ditched cigarettes? (Original post)
FSogol May 2018 OP
Aristus May 2018 #1
FSogol May 2018 #3
TreasonousBastard May 2018 #5
aikoaiko May 2018 #2
lame54 May 2018 #4
Scurrilous May 2018 #8
TimeSnowDemos May 2018 #6
DBoon May 2018 #7
Dave Starsky May 2018 #9
unc70 May 2018 #15
Dave Starsky May 2018 #16
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #20
samir.g May 2018 #10
Stuart G May 2018 #11
onenote May 2018 #12
NickB79 May 2018 #22
hunter May 2018 #13
demosincebirth May 2018 #14
scarytomcat May 2018 #17
Raine May 2018 #18
Hekate May 2018 #19
llmart May 2018 #21

Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:16 PM

1. I'm thinking that will be the only way it's going to happen.

Absent legislation, make guns so socially unacceptable that no one wants to buy them anymore.

As with cigarettes, it's likely going to take decades of unrelenting effort. The pushback is too strong. Southerners are still trying to 'win' the Civil War'. Libertarian nut-bags are convinced they can win an uprising against the evuhl gubmint. The weak and the insecure are convinced that owning a gun makes them sexually irresistable Rambos.

We have a lot to do. Let's get started.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #1)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:20 PM

3. Agreed. n/t

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Response to Aristus (Reply #1)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:38 PM

5. Agreed that's the only way it will happen, but it won't happen quite the same way...

unlike tobacco, guns are actually useful. Target shooting is a more or less harmless hobby. Shooting rabid raccoons, rats, rattlesnakes, and tonight's dinner is generally accepted. And, I must admit, a well-crafted firearm from a talented gunsmith is something to be admired. Pretty much a work of art.

It's shooting people that's the problem. And the NRA with its obscene refusal to stop the propaganda, or to seriously help solve the problem.

I think we are seeing the change, though. Schoolkids on TV saying their biggest fears are about being shot-- this is destroying childhood as we knew it and the kids and their parents are getting the message. I expect some day to see these open carry assholes walking down the street armed to the teeth and getting mobbed by kids and their parents.

Like Nazis, we'll never get rid of the diehards, but they can be relegated to the fringe and despised by the rest of us.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:20 PM

2. There are a lot of differences between American use of tobacco and guns



But I do think gun ownership will continue to fade away from most households.

Anti gun politics dominated from 1968 to 1994 and then progun politics dominated from 1995 to now. It’s seems like it’s about to swing back to Antigua. Politics.

Through all these swings fewer household have guns.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:23 PM

4. No indoor shooting

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Response to lame54 (Reply #4)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:41 PM

8. LOL

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:38 PM

6. No

 

Americans have no long history of coming to their senses, and an extremely long history of being easily manipulated by propaganda. As long as half the politicians and media is saying guns are good, the notion that they are not will not be anything like universal.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:40 PM

7. yes

The fewer guns the better

I also think a lot of the issue isn't just the guns, it is a culture that romanticizes gun use. The rugged individual fighting for justice ' just them and their trusty firearm.

When gun owning becomes socially suspect, you will see fewer of the wrong person using a gun for the wrong reason.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:53 PM

9. That's an excellent question, but no... for now.

The Centers for Disease Control, which investigates and reports on the epidemiology of public health matters, including those which threaten or end life, has been expressly forbidden from studying or reporting on gun violence. So nobody's going to do anything about it.

Until we get a whole new government not enthralled to Russia and the NRA.

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Response to Dave Starsky (Reply #9)

Mon May 21, 2018, 06:19 PM

15. Wasn't that restriction lifted recently?

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Response to unc70 (Reply #15)

Mon May 21, 2018, 06:35 PM

16. No, it was not.

The CDC can research the causes of gun deaths and dismemberments, but they can't make any recommendations having anything to do with access to guns, even if easy access to guns is the direct cause of the problem.

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Response to Dave Starsky (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2018, 08:46 PM

20. Actually there never was a ban on research, only on advocacy

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=206002

https://www.google.com/search?q=1996+dickey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

The wikipedia link:
The amendment was introduced after lobbying by the National Rifle Association in response to their perceived bias in a 1993 study by Arthur Kellermann that found that guns in the home were associated with an increased risk of homicide in the home, as well as other CDC funded studies and efforts.

That month, a spokeswoman for the agency, Courtney Lenard, told the Washington Post that "It is possible for us to conduct firearm-related research within the context of our efforts to address youth violence, domestic violence, sexual violence, and suicide. But our resources are very limited."


The Kellerman work was deeply flawed.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 04:54 PM

10. Gun toters should be pariahs

They should have a stigma on par with pedophiles.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 05:00 PM

11. No, guns offer security.. Cigarettes may have once offered that, but no more.

Guns will continue to offer "security" IT may be false security..but security anyway.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 05:09 PM

12. Much different situations

Smoking dropped off -- and its taken a long time -- because (1) it was harmful to the people who smoked and so they quit; (2) it was harmful to people in the immediate vicinity of smokers, so businesses, restaurants etc. started banning smoking; and (3) advertising was restricted.

The role of the government was most significant when it came to advertising. It was important with regard to second hand smoke, but it took businesses deciding they were better off accommodating non-smokers than smokers. And even the ban on advertising in and of itself was only part of the story -- it was tv and movies showing fewer depictions of smoking (and making it seem less glamorous or cool) that changed attitudes. Will tv and movies stop showing guns? Unlikely.

Gun owners don't think of guns as presenting a danger to themselves. And while some businesses can and do restrict guns from being carried on their premises, the immediate threat of those guns is perceived differently by people than the immediate impact of second hand smoke. The author of the column cites her kids freaking out a seeing someone smoking in a restaurant. Well, its not that common to see guns in restaurants. Even if open carry was banned, concealed carry would be largely unaffected.



One change that could help: non-smoking benefits people in terms of insurance; if the same was true of gun ownership, some people might decide they prefer lower insurance rates to owning a gun.

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Response to onenote (Reply #12)

Mon May 21, 2018, 09:27 PM

22. I'm trying to figure out how gun ownership currently impacts insurance rates

The only time any insurance (medical, life, car, or home) has inquired about my gun ownership status was when I bought a house 9 yr ago and State Farm offered to sell me supplemental insurance to cover gun replacement costs in case of fire or theft (not covered under regular policies).

They cared more about my fireplace than my guns.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 05:32 PM

13. Gun fetishes are disgusting.

Even without the law we can encourage friends and family to give up this filthy habit, and we can denormalize gun culture.

Two thirds of us don't care enough about guns to bother owning one.

Most gun owners have one or two guns safely locked away that they rarely think about, guns that might be decades old.

The gun fetishists know who they are. They are the most significant market for the gun manufacturers. Many own small arsenals. They often let "bad guys" live in their heads and they sometimes carry guns for "self defense."

It's sad really, like a chain smoker who can't quit.




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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 05:43 PM

14. Nope, gun nuts sleep along side their guns and caress them during the night.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 06:47 PM

17. maybe no ... most gun toters are smokers in my experience

they will never give either up

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 08:33 PM

18. NO, just NO. nt

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 08:43 PM

19. As Al Gore said of climate policy: All it takes is political will.

As all of us at DU know by now, that is a commodity in short supply in the US Congress -- until we get rid of the Repubs and any others on the NRA payroll. We need to make taki g money from the NRA as toxic as possible.

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Response to FSogol (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2018, 09:15 PM

21. Yes.

It won't be in my lifetime, but I think it will come to that. We have to do our part to ostracize the gun nuts. The old fat white guys will die off sooner rather than later.

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