General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo let me tell you what an IRS agent told me today in my dental chair...
Please...no jokes....LOL.
HE was telling me that he was figuring out his taxes for the coming year, and looked at the tables of withholding and figured out how much they would hold and how much he would get back as a refund based upon his proposed deductions and to his horror, after all he is an accountant, he found that he would owe a fair amount of money still to IRS. Now apparently, IRS employees are not permitted to owe large amounts of money to the government so he did some quick thinking and realized THAT THE WITHHOLDING TABLES HAD BEEN CHANGED BUT THE BRACKETS WERE NOT. This means that yes, you do get more money in your paycheck but at the end of the year you're gonna owe it to IRS and more.
He said that in February, when people get their W-2's they're gonna stroke out when they see their tax bill after they do the forms. Of course, that's after the midterms so the Republicans don't give a damn at that point. After all, they'll be making fun of Speaker Pelosi and possibly even Majority Leader Schumer at that point so it won't mean much....
Baitball Blogger
(46,573 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)Isn't it nice that folks won't even know until after the Midterms.
Qutzupalotl
(14,230 posts)immediately on taking the majority, never mind that that would be impossible. Lovely gift from Donnie.
JoeOtterbein
(7,697 posts)I was at my dentist today and he was ranting about Trump (he knows I'm a solid Dem) and the Rethulicans and their "so-called tax break" the whole time he was trying to find where the pain in my tooth was coming from. He hit me with a "cold" test thing and I almost jumped out of my chair! He really made me laugh though when I saw his little Trump-bird toy with a toy "wall" in front of it on his desk.
Good to know there is more than one solid Dem dentist around!
mikeysnot
(4,755 posts)you just mirrored me and my dentist two weeks ago....
My dumb ass dentist is still a trumper, but he know I do not talk politics with dumb ass trump supporters...
I gave it up in 2005 with bush supporters. Made one mistake with my bro in law since.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)office when I discovered he's a Disposable. Plenty of dentists around here, no need to take chances on a crazy one. These are the kind of people who make Marathon Man seem entirely plausible.
renate
(13,776 posts)Either way, this could be huge. How has the DNC missed this?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Would know that republicans were literally writing things into the margins minutes before votes and did not give democrats copies to review. Plus, pretty much 100% of Dems voted against whatever bill that came to a vote, even if republicans refused to allow review of what was being voted on.
But I guess it is still vogue to blame democrats for somehow missing stuff when they were completely sidelined by thugs that had a majority's porogative and no intention of practicing democracy. Please vote and help give democrats a majority instead of finding any reason to blame them, even when they have no blame.
renate
(13,776 posts)This seems like a very important thing to let voters know about before the election, but I hadn't heard anything along these lines. I was just wondering whether the DNC had any plans to get this information in front of voters before the election.
I certainly wasn't blaming Democrats in Congress who all did everything they possibly could to stop this, and I certainly intend to vote. I won't take offense and will just assume that I misinterpreted your post as you seem to have misinterpreted mine.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)The press rarely catches them in a lie when they do it. Headlines for online articles live off of being clickbaits. Once things are finally fact-checked, it's onto the next travesty. Dems will undoubtedly be blamed for this. Because the repugs will have their rhetoric taking over the so called "Liberal media" airways.
Kablooie
(18,571 posts)Voters are more willing to believe lies than truth so Republicans are winning over and over again.
(Let's hope that this is a temporary condition though.)
itcfish
(1,828 posts)They missed it. I remember reading about what your IRS friend said.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)And that's why the Billionaire Tax Cut is unpopular now. Most folks know there's something fishy about it; they just don't realize the full impact yet.
study war no more
(73 posts)Don't you remember during the Bush years? I think it was $300 extra dollars. People were proclaiming how much they could do with this 'bonus' but it turned out to be an 'advance' on their tax return. Shocker!
KT2000
(20,544 posts)will spin this one - it must be the Dem's fault.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)So they will put on their MAGA hats, jump on their tractors and into their longhaul rigs and come to Washington to blame democrats for the shafting that republicans they helped elect gave them.
Mr.Bill
(24,103 posts)Trump is out there saying they are going to do a big tax cut for the middle class. You know, just like the last time was supposed to be. Honest. For sure this time.
BigGermanGuy
(131 posts)dems get control as the economy is tanking and policies reps voted on take place.
then the right points to the dems and say "things were fine till you showed up!"
rinse, repeat.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,010 posts)so that employees would see bigger checks? There was a lot of criticism that the re-calculations were going to result in shocked taxpayers in 2019. But they did it anyway.
I've made adjustments and warned my some of my co-workers, but I'm sure they will still be surprised that after years of looker forward to refunds, they suddenly are trying to figure out how to pay more.
spooky3
(34,302 posts)We're in a state hurt by the capping of the state and local tax deductions.
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)RE-upped my witholding to what it was before.
Told everyone who was listening to do the same.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Vinca
(50,168 posts)never been especially clear if all our deductions remain. Guess we'll find out in a few months. I'm living with the assumption we'll be screwed since we're far, far away from the 1%.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There are still some things that you can do over the next two months and when you are preparing your returns early next year to blunt the impact. You may want to plan on filing for the longest extension that you qualify for to allow you to average out cash outlays into a future quarter (with the adjustment that you make in what remains of this year taken into account).
7962
(11,841 posts)I send in whatever number I think will work out at the end of the year.
Vinca
(50,168 posts)than we did last year, but I found the tax law as applied to self-employed people very confusing.
Make7
(8,543 posts)The brackets on taxable income did have some changes.
Source
Changes to standard and allowable deductions complicates the withholding calculations.
For most people, I think their total tax owed will be lower - although if withholdings from paychecks were excessive, they may get a smaller refund/owe more at the end of the year. Not sure what the brackets have to do with that for most people. It seems the exact opposite would be true if withholding issues were caused by the bracket levels remaining unchanged. Perhaps I'm just looking at it wrong.
Kensan
(179 posts)The bracket tables can let you calculate your total tax liability. You need the Circular E withholding tables to see how much tax is withheld from your paycheck. Thats where allowances and frequency of pay periods factor in.
Your dentist is discovering the withholding amounts were reduced intentionally, so that take home pay would be slightly more. It creates a short term stimulus since people have a little extra spending money, and those at the lower income scales will end up spending it.
There will be plenty of surprises next April 15 between the changes to itemized deductions for some and the reduced withholding for others. This last tax cut bill was an absolute piece of garbage. Worked fantastic for real estate investors. I wonder how that happened?
llmart
(15,499 posts)but if you are single and your taxable income is less than $9,525 you should freakin' NOT have to pay any taxes!
7962
(11,841 posts)"Total income" is everything you made, "taxable income" is whats left after deductions. I've seen people who make 6 figures have 20k In taxable income.
Thats how so many families end up paying NO income tax; the deductions reduce their taxable income to 0. A married couple has to make over 24000 just to START at zero.
llmart
(15,499 posts)over the years most deductions have been eliminated. I would think that most single people don't have that many deductions.
FBaggins
(26,695 posts)The brackets are already published and are definitely lower.
What is true is that for many taxpayers, the change in withholding is larger than their eventual change in taxes owed... so there will be millions with smaller returns or more owed come filing time.
PCIntern
(25,343 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Some deductions that people used to take were modified or eliminated by the tax bill. The impact of that will be felt at filing time.
Anyone that own their own business and normally meet with an accountant once per year, may want to pay for a meeting like this week. The exceptions are people whose business spins off excess cash on a regular basis (there are some like that).
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... hit a lot of people big time.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It will result in a massive shock to the economy.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)they have the "I got mine so fuck you" attitude
jmowreader
(50,447 posts)SharonAnn
(13,766 posts)I said "no",let's see how things come out this first year of the tax changes.
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Rebl2
(13,303 posts)in the last few months that folks will be in a big surprise next tax season, but I thought it was because they werent having enough taken out of their paycheck for taxes. Am I correct about this? We found that out this year after hubby retired last year. His former employer wasnt taking out enough for taxes, so weve been playing catch-up this year.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)The new tax cuts eliminated the personal exemption while temporarily doubling the standard deduction. In the rush to put whatever extra money a taxpayer might get to show up in paychecks, the whole W-4 withholding form had to be re-jiggered. It was the IRS' best guess at what your withholding would/should be.
I won't be the least bit surprised if people end up owing or not getting much of a refund this year.
George II
(67,782 posts)....(I know, you said no jokes, sorry!)
I told people right after the "tax cut" that the withholding was being reduced but it will all be paid back in taxes at the end of the year.
They even played with the Standard Deduction and Personal Exemptions.
In 2017 the Standard Deduction was $12,700 and the Personal Exemption was $4,050 for each person in the household.
They boasted that the Standard Deduction would be doubled, but it only went up to $24,000 (NOT $25,400). But they neglected to point out that the Personal Exemption was being eliminated (among other things)
Last year for a family of four, the Standard Deduction and Personal Exemptions were $28,900. This year it's only $24,000 - $4,900 less.
They're doing it with smoke and mirrors and a fancy two-step.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Even though the law was passed on a partisan basis as where Democrats were not allowed to add amendments.
enid602
(8,524 posts)Much is being said about the fact that trumps tax cuts to the Uber rich and large corporations create such huge deficits that Medicare, Medicaid and SS might soon be history. Its interesting to note that with the new tax law, the huge amounts that seniors will pay for health care wont even be tax deductible to the extent that they were before. The deduction for medical expenses is being phased out!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Was in the Dntal chair.
smb
(3,452 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)The post and comments have been extremely informative
I also read that families with 3 or more children will be hurt but I dont know if thats true in the final version of the bill.
johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)My taxes are going up. Meanwhile billionaires get millions extra. Most grotesque tax scam in history.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)Did you know that some business travel reimbursement is now considered taxable income? There's lots of crazy shit like that in the new law.
johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)This is a horrible tax bill. It needs to be repealed.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)a bunch of business expenses and on and on and on.
Thunderbeast
(3,380 posts)With high property and state income taxes, the SALT limits will expose more income to taxation. With the loss of personal exemption, the tax liability will be significantly higher than last year even with lower rates.
superpatriotman
(6,232 posts)I would love proof of this anecdote
PCIntern
(25,343 posts)superpatriotman
(6,232 posts)Let me clarify:
I kick posts that interest me and of which I would like further discussion.
There are professionals here who often provide great insight and background or which I do not have.
Thanks for the post, I look forward to following it.
PCIntern
(25,343 posts)I was surprised by your retort. No offense taken
Yavin4
(35,355 posts)Anything negative that happens it will be the fault of Democrats.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Remember, this was a tax giveaway to the rich.
The rich don't care much about withholding tables or even weekly paychecks. They also don't care much about a refund check so that they can buy a big screen tv (or other large purchase) like many of us do. The wealthy -always- owe money at the end of the year.
They DO care about the tax brackets and quarterly payments however.
It's been awhile since I've read the tax bill, however I don't believe it even address withholding tables (those are delegated to the IRS to maintain). The tax bill address tax brackets and tax rates.
wishstar
(5,267 posts)I felt in the dark but suspicious of the automatic raise that occurred last January, so I increased my withholding so hopefully I won't owe very much. I prefer to owe a little and not get a refund. My friend's tax preparer told her to not expect as big a refund in April as she usually gets back as she is someone who loves a huge refund.
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)With his $300 Tax cut. Turned out to be a loan. You had to pay it back when you filed your taxes.
When will people get smart? The tax cuts to the wealthy are permanant this time. Bushs expired after 10 years.
RobinA
(9,877 posts)that's when I learned how to change my withholding at my current job. Did it again this time and had to relearn it all over again.
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Me they already got a big tax cut. I reminded them that was last year, the bill had not taken effect yet! People are so dumb!
kairos12
(12,817 posts)dhol82
(9,351 posts)I will have my Real estate taxes capped and that will be a big hit.
In addition to having been hit for AMT because I prepaid this years tax, my accountant put me on a quarterly prepayment schedule.
Not amused.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)trump is trying to give the impression that the tax cut gave money to people other than the 1% There will be some upset people next year. My taxes will go up
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)But the responses eliminated any desire to laugh. I mean, we all know this is going on, but it at least was next year, only next year's almost here.
DarleenMB
(408 posts)My tax preparer informed me that, if everything remained exactly the same, I would owe an additional $2,000 next year.
avebury
(10,946 posts)with the withholding tables to make people think that they are getting more from the "tax cut" then they really are. The intentionally withheld too little all year long. This info came out months ago. A lot of people will get hosed at tax time if they haven't been paying attention and preparing for it.
I have been watching my pay check and periodically calculate what I will actually owe, based upon my income. I increased by withholding back in February. I actually will get a really nice refund. I got a raise this year an my raise went into my Medical Health Care Savings Account and State/Federal taxes. My actual take home pay actually went down. Thank God for the HSCA because I am facing hefty dental bills at some time in the future and I am pouring as much pre-tax $ into the account as I can to be ready when the time comes.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Wait until the Trumpers find out.
As for me, I am retired, so I know which bracket and what tax rate for that bracket I'll fall into. So no surprises (I hope).
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Something you saved taxes on will come due,then bingo,you get hit.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)SURPRISE!
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Figured this out?. Even so, often wondered why I never hear of anyone who gets withholding actually raving about anything. Everyone else going into next April going in blind....not knowing the affect of not itemizing with changed deductions.
Freddie
(9,231 posts)Sent the whole company an email about this when the tables changed. TWO people besides myself increased their withholding. Wont they be surprised.
PCIntern
(25,343 posts)Chemisse
(30,793 posts)I just can't remember which president it happened under.
kwijybo
(220 posts)They are all a bunch of (ex) engineers, mathematicians, etc.