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Is genocide an overstatement for what's happening in America under Trump? (Original Post) True Dough Oct 2018 OP
Currently, an overstatement Downtown Hound Oct 2018 #1
Yes, it is an overstatement of the worst kind... RHMerriman Oct 2018 #2
Seems to me that some of those activities are being done by the U.S. at the southern border. yardwork Oct 2018 #7
Over the top alarmist rhetoric and willful mis-statement of legally-defined terminology is RHMerriman Oct 2018 #14
+1 grantcart Oct 2018 #18
Yes, by any definition, it would tragically deny genocide Hortensis Oct 2018 #28
Overstatement - CIVIL COLD WAR would be a better term. DinahMoeHum Oct 2018 #3
I see the first stage being accomplished. violetpastille Oct 2018 #4
Except there's no "Mexican" DNA ancestry... RHMerriman Oct 2018 #6
Right. violetpastille Oct 2018 #13
Okay... RHMerriman Oct 2018 #15
Sure. violetpastille Oct 2018 #24
Fair enough RHMerriman Oct 2018 #26
Look at #4. Trump and his minions routinely speak of their enemies as vermin. yardwork Oct 2018 #5
Rhetoric, however bigoted, is not genocide; genocide is a crime defined by international law RHMerriman Oct 2018 #8
Children are being forcibly separated from their families by the U.S. government at the border. yardwork Oct 2018 #11
There's room for diversity of opinion here True Dough Oct 2018 #17
Shutting down debate? Hardly. Advocating for truthful and accurate use of language? RHMerriman Oct 2018 #20
That's right, hardly! True Dough Oct 2018 #22
Or what, exactly? RHMerriman Oct 2018 #25
I've read it many times; that's why I posted it... RHMerriman Oct 2018 #19
Hard to say... regnaD kciN Oct 2018 #9
massive overstatement Takket Oct 2018 #10
Been there, done that. Look at this land's first people. McCamy Taylor Oct 2018 #12
Only stage 9 is technically genocide meadowlander Oct 2018 #16
Try reading some world news for a change. milestogo Oct 2018 #21
True that... RHMerriman Oct 2018 #23
Not only a gross overstatement, GulfCoast66 Oct 2018 #27
Overstatement. Turin_C3PO Oct 2018 #29
Yes. guillaumeb Oct 2018 #30
Ordinarily I would steer clear of a thread dewsgirl Oct 2018 #31
We can't let it get this far... True Dough Oct 2018 #32
Suicide beats all other statistics, car crashes, opioid overdoeses, obesity deaths, smoking lindysalsagal Oct 2018 #33
Not an overstatement. LuckyCharms Oct 2018 #34
We can't rule it out, LuckyCharms True Dough Oct 2018 #35

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
1. Currently, an overstatement
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:47 PM
Oct 2018

But, if we don't nip what's happening in the bud now, then one day in the not-too-distant future it might not be.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
2. Yes, it is an overstatement of the worst kind...
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:48 PM
Oct 2018

Words have meaning, and hyperbole accomplishes nothing but robbing them of those meanings.

Grow up.

Legal definition of genocide
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."


Source:
[link:http://www.un.org/ar/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf|]

yardwork

(61,416 posts)
7. Seems to me that some of those activities are being done by the U.S. at the southern border.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:54 PM
Oct 2018

I'd be careful about dismissing what's happening and telling people to "grow up."

Some pretty smart people are worried. Read Tim Snyder's books.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
14. Over the top alarmist rhetoric and willful mis-statement of legally-defined terminology is
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:03 PM
Oct 2018

Over the top alarmist rhetoric and willful mis-statement of legally-defined terminology is what demagogues do, not clear-eyed realists and patriots.

In other words, don't try to out-trump the Trumpists.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Yes, by any definition, it would tragically deny genocide
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:50 PM
Oct 2018

for what it is, which would serves only potential monsters and their dreadful followers.

Please note the last item. Language is extremely powerful societal defense, not just something to be corrupted by self serving minds, including to be weaponized by those of evil intent.

violetpastille

(1,483 posts)
4. I see the first stage being accomplished.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:51 PM
Oct 2018

As for number 2:

Every time I see one of those 23andme commercials I mutter to myself.

"Anybody who knows for sure they have Mexican ancestry needs to stay far, far away from that shit."



RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
6. Except there's no "Mexican" DNA ancestry...
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:53 PM
Oct 2018

Someone with ancestors from Mexico will (likely) have a mix of European, Native American, African, and/or Asian ancestry, same as almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

violetpastille

(1,483 posts)
13. Right.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:03 PM
Oct 2018

We don't disagree.

But if the worst case scenario comes to pass and there was a flag on "especially high percentage of Native American" yeah.

Maybe later. Not now. That money can go a lot of other places.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
15. Okay...
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:05 PM
Oct 2018

Okay ... not trying to be argumentative, but we (Democrats) are supposed to be the reality-based community.

violetpastille

(1,483 posts)
24. Sure.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:27 PM
Oct 2018

I'm not trying to argue with you either. I'm just typing.

I am a registered Democrat. I vote a straight ticket.

And I also don't trust the Trump administration as far as I can throw them. I'm also eyeing those big jars of peanut butter.

I'm not all CT, but why take an unforced risk?

yardwork

(61,416 posts)
5. Look at #4. Trump and his minions routinely speak of their enemies as vermin.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:52 PM
Oct 2018

We're not at genocide yet but this is absolutely how it begins.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
8. Rhetoric, however bigoted, is not genocide; genocide is a crime defined by international law
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:55 PM
Oct 2018

Rhetoric, however bigoted, is not genocide; genocide is a crime defined by international law.

yardwork

(61,416 posts)
11. Children are being forcibly separated from their families by the U.S. government at the border.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:58 PM
Oct 2018

Thousands of these children, some as young as infants, have been flown secretly to other cities where they are being "fostered" by evangelical Christian adoption agencies contracted by our government.

Read the final line in your post above where you quote the definition.

True Dough

(17,091 posts)
17. There's room for diversity of opinion here
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:08 PM
Oct 2018

Just because the poster above you wants to shut the conversation down doesn't mean he will succeed. I don't believe we're witnessing genocide today, but we could be on that road. Gotta keep our eyes open and keep speaking out against the hate-fueled actions of the reich-wing.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
20. Shutting down debate? Hardly. Advocating for truthful and accurate use of language?
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:12 PM
Oct 2018

Shutting down debate? Hardly. Advocating for truthful and accurate use of language?

Always.

If that offends you, too bad.

You want to use legal language? Use it accurately.

True Dough

(17,091 posts)
22. That's right, hardly!
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:22 PM
Oct 2018

You'll notice my OP was a question. You've stated your opinion, repeatedly. Move on.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
19. I've read it many times; that's why I posted it...
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:09 PM
Oct 2018

As brutal as the current administration's policies regarding families that apply for refugee status at the US-Mexico border are, they are not genocide by any stretch of the imagination, and to state such is foolish.

Application for asylum in the United States is an overt act by the asylum seeker; there is no coercion.

Words have meanings; abandoning those meanings does nothing to further rational debate.

regnaD kciN

(26,035 posts)
9. Hard to say...
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:55 PM
Oct 2018

Right now, we could be in the earliest stages of what could become genocide. Or it might be that the signs that concern us may peter out to nothing. One thjng’s for sure: the chances of it becoming genocide are far greater if the current crop of Republicans remain in power after this November (and 2020).

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
12. Been there, done that. Look at this land's first people.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:59 PM
Oct 2018

Trump did not start the genocide. He is just bringing it back.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
21. Try reading some world news for a change.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 05:21 PM
Oct 2018

Genocide is currently happening in several countries. Not the US>

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
31. Ordinarily I would steer clear of a thread
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 09:07 PM
Oct 2018

like this. That being said we have no idea what is actually happening in those camps, only what they want us to see for the most part. I am not saying they are committing genocide at this time. I can't help but fear, there are those amongst ICE, CBP, etc. that wouldn't hesitate to follow orders directing them to do just that. I also think if this administration thought they could get away with it, they would do it in a heartbeat.

lindysalsagal

(20,440 posts)
33. Suicide beats all other statistics, car crashes, opioid overdoeses, obesity deaths, smoking
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 10:04 PM
Oct 2018

Those numbers are staggaring, without any politics....

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
34. Not an overstatement.
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 10:08 PM
Oct 2018

Genocide involves more that the actual killing, as your OP states. If you view genocide as a series of steps, then we are indeed experiencing genocide.

True Dough

(17,091 posts)
35. We can't rule it out, LuckyCharms
Sat Oct 27, 2018, 10:14 PM
Oct 2018

It is alarming how we seem to be moving steadily in that direction. We must remain vigilant.

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