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OK I give up. Please tell me what Pelosi's master plan is. I just don't get it (that she resists (Original Post) triron May 2019 OP
It's that old 1000-dimensional chess. DavidDvorkin May 2019 #1
She's not giving him what he wants. Irishxs May 2019 #2
She never did say that Impeachment is off the table... Wounded Bear May 2019 #3
"Waterboarding Trump in public" is a great analogy! Hekate May 2019 #28
I know, right? NJCher May 2019 #39
+1000. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #56
One possible scenario... First Speaker May 2019 #4
8 MILLION stories. Kurtis Blow Chin music May 2019 #13
one problem would be low info voters thinking Pence deserves a chance treestar May 2019 #58
Get all the evidence she can. edbermac May 2019 #5
If they impeach without a huge groundswell, then dems will possibly lose applegrove May 2019 #6
I've been antsy about all this, needless to say. Having 'itchy britches' as it were. sprinkleeninow May 2019 #7
It's above my pay grade. Turin_C3PO May 2019 #8
Yes and above most here!! We must trust our dem leaders, not blindly but because they Thekaspervote May 2019 #23
You saw today what happened. drray23 May 2019 #9
Exactly. There needs to be support. Not just in the House bitterross May 2019 #18
Well said ... Nixon delivered the "I am not a crook" speech in November, 1973... RHMerriman May 2019 #19
Bot!! Daddyleg May 2019 #10
Welcome to DU. what do you like on your pizza? irisblue May 2019 #16
Oh, sure, he should be "impeahced" already! We can't afford to make sure it goes properly! Judi Lynn May 2019 #21
Hah. Ellipsis May 2019 #30
MIRT! Hekate May 2019 #32
Project much? FM123 May 2019 #54
Ok. But you won't like it. GulfCoast66 May 2019 #11
ITA. And I do not understand why it is so hard for spooky3 May 2019 #20
Blood Thirsty Rage. Xolodno May 2019 #31
It's been ages since I've read The Art of War herding cats May 2019 #34
+1 Love Sun Tzu... mitch96 May 2019 #59
Time is on her side Ellipsis May 2019 #12
It's the same thing as comedy, sports, or music... world wide wally May 2019 #14
In so many ways. The Republicans know that. Hortensis May 2019 #50
Your comment makes me think we are all closer to each other's positions Generic Other May 2019 #62
Yes. We all want Trump and all the rest to face justice Hortensis May 2019 #63
I don't think it hurts to have people yelling for Trump's head Generic Other May 2019 #65
:) Well, huge external threats do have a way of Hortensis May 2019 #66
Impeachment!! Then what? Trump gloating he wins because the Senate won't convict redstateblues May 2019 #15
Post removed Post removed May 2019 #17
No Congress should impeach a President... dchill May 2019 #22
She is letting Trump dig his own hole randr May 2019 #24
Shoes continue to drop. moondust May 2019 #25
This thread is helpful. CaptainTruth May 2019 #26
Very helpful. Thanks. emmaverybo May 2019 #40
She's letting him dig his own grave. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #27
A Post in the Greatest Section Used a Matador Analogy dlk May 2019 #29
Until the polling numbers change, nothing is changing donkeypoofed May 2019 #33
46% is 8% higher than nixon post Saturday Night Massacre, there's no cogent political uponit7771 May 2019 #45
Pelosi's resistance to impeachment ... NanceGreggs May 2019 #35
Two words: "Stacked Jury" Jake Stern May 2019 #36
She believes there will be more support for impeachment from the country in wasupaloopa May 2019 #37
+1 uponit7771 May 2019 #46
Inpeachment will be DOA when it moves to the Senate. dem in texas May 2019 #38
Brian Lehrer interviewed a Post reporter srobertss May 2019 #41
It's not that hard to understand really. It would be the OnDoutside May 2019 #42
They absolutely must impeach, but... Mike Nelson May 2019 #43
it is boiling over just fine quaker bill May 2019 #44
Because when he's then exonerated by the Senate he wins re-election in a snap Recursion May 2019 #47
The Speaker knows what she's doing. Good cop, bad cop. Independent vote. lindysalsagal May 2019 #48
I only wish you'd give up. Hortensis May 2019 #49
Who wants another government shutdown? nitpicker May 2019 #51
She's already said many times. 2020. That's the entire plan. Kurt V. May 2019 #52
Win the 2020 election and not lose the house.we elected moderates in 18. Demsrule86 May 2019 #53
Even if they could build a rock solid case against Trump Buckeyeblue May 2019 #55
Your question is rhetorical. You just want to invite participants to pile on your anger at Pelosi. ehrnst May 2019 #57
Waiting for high tide SlogginThroughIt May 2019 #60
"preparing the ground for the GOP to abandon him" mitch96 May 2019 #61
They're doing an impeachment inquiry without giving trump the impeachment word he can weaponize and Fullduplexxx May 2019 #64

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
3. She never did say that Impeachment is off the table...
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:27 PM
May 2019

The investigations continue. Everything they learn and show to the public pisses Trump off more and more.

Drip, drip, drip...

It's like we're waterboarding Trump in public and we're gradually doing that which he fears the most, exposing his inadequacies for all to see.

Congress keeps on keeping on while Trump basically demonstrates why he shouldn't be where he is.

NJCher

(35,435 posts)
39. I know, right?
Thu May 23, 2019, 01:39 AM
May 2019

Sometimes you just need a good metaphor and this one is so apropos.


A laundry scrub board would have been good, too:

“Out, out, damned spot!”

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
4. One possible scenario...
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:28 PM
May 2019

...that she *knows*, more-or-less, just what's coming down the pike regarding Trump and his crimes, especially the money laundering, which I've always felt is the biggest danger to him. And, knowing this, she's setting the stage, slowly, but carefully. Letting him hang himself in the meantime, and preparing the ground for the GOP to abandon him, which it will if/when he becomes *too* much of a liability to them, thereby setting up Pence as the "unifier" who will save the country, ala Ford in 1974. This is just one possibility. There are 8,000,000 scenarios in the Naked City...this has been one of them.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
58. one problem would be low info voters thinking Pence deserves a chance
Thu May 23, 2019, 08:04 AM
May 2019

at a term that is more than a few months long.

applegrove

(118,022 posts)
6. If they impeach without a huge groundswell, then dems will possibly lose
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:29 PM
May 2019

those Democratic red state house members. She wants to keep the house.

sprinkleeninow

(20,136 posts)
7. I've been antsy about all this, needless to say. Having 'itchy britches' as it were.
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:32 PM
May 2019

Feeling much more better about this week's unfolding events than ever b4.

My hope is that she's letting them stew in their own juice as the saying goes.

I have a feelin' in my bones this will really keep unfolding leading to more and more desperation shown by especially you-know-who.

.

Turin_C3PO

(13,650 posts)
8. It's above my pay grade.
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:33 PM
May 2019

But I have to trust that Pelosi knows what she’s doing. So far she’s done an excellent job of getting under the Toddler Tyrant’s skin and that alone is worth something.

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
23. Yes and above most here!! We must trust our dem leaders, not blindly but because they
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:17 AM
May 2019

Have proven time and again without any doubt they have our best interests at heart

drray23

(7,587 posts)
9. You saw today what happened.
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:35 PM
May 2019

She is generating a groundswell of support for impeachment . Courts are starting to rule in favor of Congress and she is taunting trump . He is going crazy and compromising himself even more. It is slowly turning public opinion and I think, some members of Congress as well.

Soon we will reach the point where Pelosi will be able to go along with impeachment (probably starting with inquiry) without any backslash. At this stage, the GOP wont be able to keep stonewalling because of their voters demanding otherwise.

If you look at Nixon's situation, he started with the support of his party and the public. Slowly but surely thg, it eroded after multiple subpoenas and culminated with the release of these tapes. By then, his own party had abandoned him.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
18. Exactly. There needs to be support. Not just in the House
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:59 PM
May 2019

The Judiciary branch is now providing a lot of support. The more they rule against Trump, the more she can say it is not just a partisan battle of her against Trump.

That is very important. These rulings need to keep coming in to prove he's wrong and dirty.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
19. Well said ... Nixon delivered the "I am not a crook" speech in November, 1973...
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:04 AM
May 2019


Well said ... Nixon delivered the "I am not a crook" speech in November, 1973... he resigned less than nine months later.

"I don't do coverups" in May, 2019 ... using the Nixon precedent, he'll resign in February, 2020, although given how deep in the cesspool his ratings are, he may go sooner.

I could see him running to Moscow on the Trump jet, honestly; his default move when faced by a real threat (after his father passed away, of course) is to walk way from the table; the settlement in the Trump University case being the obvious example.



Judi Lynn

(160,219 posts)
21. Oh, sure, he should be "impeahced" already! We can't afford to make sure it goes properly!
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:10 AM
May 2019

Too much strain on people with short attention spans.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
11. Ok. But you won't like it.
Wed May 22, 2019, 11:37 PM
May 2019

She knows Impeachment without conviction gives Trump a win. And may well cost us 2020.

But that anyone prone to changing their minds now, and there are not many, will be just as likely to change them due to continued drip, drip of incriminating information.

But that is not the main reason. Far from it.

If we keep doing what we are doing, trump will become more and more unhinged. Till by election time the vast majority will be motivated for a major change.

If on the other hand, we impeach. Which will take months, and with McTurtle the trial will take longer, within 6 months if the election trump will be found not guilty.

And the winds will go out of the sails of the opposition like you have never seen. Trump will be vindicated and most likely win re-election.

That is why I do not support impeachment. Just continual investigation and presidential chaos.



spooky3

(34,303 posts)
20. ITA. And I do not understand why it is so hard for
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:06 AM
May 2019

Some people, including Joy Reid, to understand that without the Senate votes, Pelosi must follow a different strategy.

Xolodno

(6,341 posts)
31. Blood Thirsty Rage.
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:29 AM
May 2019

Some would do well to read Sun Tzu's the Art of War.

Victorious Warriors win first then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

herding cats

(19,549 posts)
34. It's been ages since I've read The Art of War
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:37 AM
May 2019

But that one philosophy has been a guideline for much in my life.

mitch96

(13,822 posts)
59. +1 Love Sun Tzu...
Thu May 23, 2019, 09:30 AM
May 2019

His ideas are used a lot in business.
Attack their weak point while directing them to your strong point..
She is directing him to show all his weakness before her attack...
m

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
50. In so many ways. The Republicans know that.
Thu May 23, 2019, 06:03 AM
May 2019

Attention to impeachment proceedings occurring at the wrong time would severely impair our presidential and other candidates' ability to get our Democratic Party messages out. They'd get blown away in the storm of controversy.

Whereas Trump's "approval," dipping now, especially among conservative indies, is expected to soar during impeachment/removal proceedings. Nixon won reelection in the middle of Watergate with a 49-state sweep. So...timing!

New poll: 73% say Mueller should testify, 20% no.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
62. Your comment makes me think we are all closer to each other's positions
Thu May 23, 2019, 10:34 AM
May 2019

than I realized. Those calling for Impeachment may sound like they are demanding an instant action that ends his presidency, but I think most who think this is the route we should be taking realize that the process is slow and cumbersome. We have all the time in the world to lay out the crimes, call the witnesses, question, investigate, televise hearings. Either way, Impeachment hearings or regular Congressional investigations, Trump's problems are NOT going to go away.

If the timing is the issue, Pelosi knows how to drag out the time. What we should not do is let Trump off the hook.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
63. Yes. We all want Trump and all the rest to face justice
Thu May 23, 2019, 10:53 AM
May 2019

and pay for what they're doing. And we want Trump out of office, though some worry more about Pence.

Certainly Pelosi and the rest of our Democratic leadership know they have huge duties not to let corrupt Republicans turn our democracy into a fascistic kleptocracy. They have to stop what the Republicans are doing. They have to get enough power in 2020 to stop them from doing it again and worse. And they have to restore confidence and stability to America. All giant moral and existential imperatives.

It's the Republicans who are desperately trying to run the clock, though. The swift (relatively) movement of these last few things through the courts is a very bad indicator for them.

Pelosi and team are not dragging it out at all, rather doing what needs to be done as swiftly as possible so our eggs will all be lined up when they need to be. But they are of course working with a number of critical, differing time factors.

If it weren't for the elections coming up, most of the opposition being reported wouldn't be happening. But people needing to get reelected, and those needing caucuses to lead, including Pelosi, must worry about that. If we lose in 2020, that could signal game over for our democracy. If we impeach in a way and at a time that'd empower them...could be the same.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
65. I don't think it hurts to have people yelling for Trump's head
Thu May 23, 2019, 11:34 AM
May 2019

It strengthens Congress. Sometimes we need diplomacy. Sometimes we need a mob.

In the end, no matter what page we are on, we just need to get rid of the menace.

Response to triron (Original post)

dchill

(38,324 posts)
22. No Congress should impeach a President...
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:14 AM
May 2019

Until it's time. Like Paul Masson. She's concocting a slow-cooker impeachment stew recipe that will be absolutely delicious when it's ready.

randr

(12,408 posts)
24. She is letting Trump dig his own hole
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:19 AM
May 2019

Slowly Republicans will start calling for impeachment rather than falling in the hole with him

donkeypoofed

(2,187 posts)
33. Until the polling numbers change, nothing is changing
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:35 AM
May 2019

46% is not enough. When it hits 60%'ish, then things could change. She has to nurse the public along slowly on this. Remember, most of them don't give a shit because they're worried about their own stuff.

I think Nancy is a Master and that "she's got this".

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
45. 46% is 8% higher than nixon post Saturday Night Massacre, there's no cogent political
Thu May 23, 2019, 04:55 AM
May 2019

... reason not to impeach outside of timing.

NONE ...

all the rest of the reasons are half truths or just plane false.

Pelosi is playing the drip drip correctly but in the end there should be impeachment

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
35. Pelosi's resistance to impeachment ...
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:45 AM
May 2019

… has been greatly exaggerated by pundits in the media.

Her statements have been very measured, and deliberately imprecise. We’ve heard things like “if such-and-such should happen” or “we’re not there yet”. That sounds to me like a woman who understands exactly how the road ahead is best navigated.

She knows where Trump’s buttons are – and one by one, she’s pushing every single one of them. She’s handing him so much rope, he can’t twist it into a noose around his neck fast enough.

When all is said and done, Nancy knows she needs the Party and the People behind her.

She’s not dragging her feet – she’s biding her time.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
36. Two words: "Stacked Jury"
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:50 AM
May 2019

The Senate is the jury and requires 67 votes to remove Trump. You can bet right now that every Republican will vote against removal and quite possibly at least one Dem, Joe Manchin, who represents one of the most Trump loving states in the Union.

That's like putting a mob boss on trial and having 8 of the 12 jurors being members of his crime family and associates. In other words it ain't gonna happen.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
37. She believes there will be more support for impeachment from the country in
Thu May 23, 2019, 12:56 AM
May 2019

the near future if the committees continue to do their work while the Dems pass legislation.

dem in texas

(2,672 posts)
38. Inpeachment will be DOA when it moves to the Senate.
Thu May 23, 2019, 01:05 AM
May 2019

Nancy is keeping Trump in a tizzy and she has him right where she wants him. She will drag it out and more bad news such as releasing his tax returns and forcing his staff to testify will continue. The impeachment can't go anywhere until the Repubs in the Senate decide he has to go.

If the Repubs in the Senate stand behind Trump, the House Dems will keep on having hearings until the 2020 election. By then American will be so disgusted with him that he will be voted out of office.



srobertss

(261 posts)
41. Brian Lehrer interviewed a Post reporter
Thu May 23, 2019, 02:07 AM
May 2019

Here. https://www.wnyc.org/story/democrats-skirmish-over-impeachment

I found it interesting. One point is that if they begin impeachment inquiries they need to let the White House have a chance to cross examine. But the biggest point was you take the chance of red state Dems losing. I’m hoping they’ll find evidence of some behavior, maybe financial, that would make his obstruction seem more serious to the public.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
42. It's not that hard to understand really. It would be the
Thu May 23, 2019, 02:20 AM
May 2019

equivalent of lemmings rushing over the cliff to go headlong into impeachment, without handholding the public through all that Trump has done. Trump and Republicans want all this done quickly, when they can then kill it in the Senate, but it is far better for Dems to expose the full unredacted Mueller report, with all the obstruction and Russian contact, one dirty step at a time.

Mike Nelson

(9,903 posts)
43. They absolutely must impeach, but...
Thu May 23, 2019, 02:37 AM
May 2019

… timing is everything. I think this has to be played carefully. On one extreme, it's done early and Crooked Donald runs on his being found "innocent" by the Senate... possibly, then, Democrats lose everything in 2020. Imagine the next four years of judges. There will be no laws left to charge Crooked Donald with anything… On the other extreme, we have President Pence - running as a calm, no-drama incumbent.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
44. it is boiling over just fine
Thu May 23, 2019, 02:57 AM
May 2019

no need to turn the burner up at the moment. If there is any sign of cooling, it can be done.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
47. Because when he's then exonerated by the Senate he wins re-election in a snap
Thu May 23, 2019, 05:02 AM
May 2019

Do you guys even think about what you're saying?

lindysalsagal

(20,444 posts)
48. The Speaker knows what she's doing. Good cop, bad cop. Independent vote.
Thu May 23, 2019, 05:29 AM
May 2019

The public doesn't want a rash woman in contrast to an idiot man. She's playing by the book, playing the long game. Taking her oath seriously.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
49. I only wish you'd give up.
Thu May 23, 2019, 05:44 AM
May 2019

It's pretty much all been said. But I'll throw in that two federal judges just ruled that congress has the right to investigate the president as part of its removal powers. That's new.

One would think those and other recent developments would clue some in that they weren't aware of and/or didn't bother to understand what is happening and why.

For sure, no matter how anxious and angry we are about Trump and the Republicans, and no matter how much antipathy a few might have toward the Democratic leadership, and Nancy specifically, impeachment is a huge moral and practical national issue and should not be used like a pile of rocks to throw at pictures of the very people whose actions are terrifying Trump.

AP: ... yet advisers have found that the president constantly talks about it ("the I-word" ), often veering there mid-conversation to express worry or frustration at the prospect. Though ..,. those around him think it may be the best thing that could happen to his reelection campaign.)

nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
51. Who wants another government shutdown?
Thu May 23, 2019, 06:21 AM
May 2019

In my opinion, if the Dems rush headlong into impeachment, the only bills that would be passed would be the defense authorization and appropriation bills. That would further fuel the fires of "get rid of those stupid Dems" in 2020.

Buckeyeblue

(5,491 posts)
55. Even if they could build a rock solid case against Trump
Thu May 23, 2019, 07:10 AM
May 2019

I think at this point, the Republicans would say, the people should decide in 2020. So keeping him on edge in public may be a better move.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
57. Your question is rhetorical. You just want to invite participants to pile on your anger at Pelosi.
Thu May 23, 2019, 08:01 AM
May 2019
 

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
60. Waiting for high tide
Thu May 23, 2019, 09:33 AM
May 2019

For all of us we are already at a fever pitch. She is waiting for the general public to catch that fever. Also it would be a good idea to get the issue started in the primaries so that it can be discussed and pushed out in the airwaves v ia coverage of that. As of right now they will just drown it out. It is coming whether they have started calling these hearings and investigations impeachment or not. That ball is already rolling.

mitch96

(13,822 posts)
61. "preparing the ground for the GOP to abandon him"
Thu May 23, 2019, 09:36 AM
May 2019

To me this is imperative if an impeachment will work. Otherwise just wait for 2020 and a overwhelming defeat of the orange shitstain. So overwhelming that he can't claim voter fraud.
A big blue wave like before... VOTE HIM OUT...
m

Fullduplexxx

(7,818 posts)
64. They're doing an impeachment inquiry without giving trump the impeachment word he can weaponize and
Thu May 23, 2019, 10:56 AM
May 2019

Use against us

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