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Mon Oct 28, 2019, 11:03 AM

A good article in the Guardian - Make no mistake - Medicare for All would cut taxes for most

Americans.

It is hard to get this point across in a 30 second sound bite, especially with our corporate media. I got this link from my friend the philosophy gardener. A good read.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/25/medicare-for-all-taxes-saez-zucman?CMP=Share iOSApp Other

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Reply A good article in the Guardian - Make no mistake - Medicare for All would cut taxes for most (Original post)
c-rational Oct 2019 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2019 #1
paleotn Oct 2019 #2
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2019 #4
paleotn Oct 2019 #3
Yavin4 Oct 2019 #5

Response to c-rational (Original post)

Mon Oct 28, 2019, 11:11 AM

1. The article calls health insurance premiums taxes, which they are not.

Countries that provide health care with government funds also tend to have very high taxes. Obviously the citizens of those countries are willing to accept high taxes in exchange for these benefits (and most high-income tax European countries also have VATs, which we do not), but getting around that reality by calling insurance premiums paid to private insurers taxes and claiming our tax bill would be therefore lower if we didn't have to pay those premiums isn't honest. If you explain it in terms of how much we'd be out of pocket - higher taxes in exchange for lower or no insurance premiums - that's an honest, factual argument, and people can decide whether they want to make that tradeoff. Pretending insurance premiums are taxes that would be eliminated under some kind of MFA system isn't.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:13 PM

2. No, it's completely honest

Out go is out go no matter what you call it...taxes, premiums, etc. The amount of out go will be less for the vast, vast majority of Americans, with the cost shifted more towards those with higher incomes. Those with far more skin in the game than the poor. Also, overall costs are lower without the profit motive. You want to make a profit? Fine. Go make it off something other than treatment to keep kids from fucking dying.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:24 PM

4. That's not the point. Outgo is important but if you tell people

their taxes won't go up and then they do, it looks pretty lame to say, "Well, we meant total outgo, not taxes taxes. See? You don't have to pay insurance premiums any more!" And how will they answer when faced with the point that insurance premiums are basically voluntary - people can choose their coverage - but government taxes are not? Maybe some people would rather have the option of voluntary private insurance. Personally, I think a single-payer system is the better way to do it, but voters need to be told what the true cost will be with respect to how much they will have to hand over to the IRS every year (at all income levels) vs. not paying premiums to a private insurer. Medicare, by the way, does charge premiums and there are copays. Would those be factored in as well?

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Response to c-rational (Original post)

Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:16 PM

3. Wonderful article

Made in such a way even a fucking trumper can comprehend. Maybe....

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Response to c-rational (Original post)

Mon Oct 28, 2019, 12:33 PM

5. Americans have been indoctrinated to hate taxes and government.

Yet, taxes and government are the best tools to improve everyone's quality of life. Many people stay in shitty jobs just because of the health care benefits instead of pursuing something that they want. I'm in that boat. I would love to leave my shitty job, but paying for health insurance on my own is cost prohibitive.

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