Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 12:08 PM Nov 2019

Your Smart Phone Is Working Great, Right?

But is it working smart? If you're like most smart phone users, either Apple or Android, you probably did a minimal setup on the phone when you first got it, and haven't revisited the settings since. It works, right? So why bother?

Well, the defaults in your phone may be doing things that you'd rather it didn't do. Thinks like security issues, moving data to the cloud, and much, much more. You probably have location services on all the time, and are letting your apps use those services to know where you are (to serve you better, of course). Can your apps use your camera, your microphone? Do you know? Do you care?

Maybe it's time for a step-by-step exploration of all of your phone's settings. Look at each one, as many menus deep as you can go. Don't understand what they mean? Do a Google search. Find out. Then, do the same with your apps and their settings. What are those apps doing in the background while you're using them? You need to know. You may need to shut some things off, or make them available only to specific apps.

Google Maps needs your location services to be on to be useful. But, does your favorite free game? Or is it using location services to know where you are so it can show you ads that target your area? You should know.

Anyhow, your smart phone is a useful tool. The thing to wonder about is: Who is using it as a useful tool besides yourself? You should find out.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Your Smart Phone Is Working Great, Right? (Original Post) MineralMan Nov 2019 OP
So you're saying we need to be smart about using our smart phone pandr32 Nov 2019 #1
Google records your whereabouts 24/7 if you don't change your privacy/location settings. dalton99a Nov 2019 #2
True, nosy but I know lives it has saved. Liberty Belle Nov 2019 #6
That is also how Maps know when a route is slow. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2019 #9
Only for the last 7 days. n/t aggiesal Nov 2019 #28
It's three months at least - if you choose to automatically delete dalton99a Nov 2019 #37
3-18 months ... aggiesal Nov 2019 #38
Thanks for the reminder, MineralMan. Grammy23 Nov 2019 #3
I hate iPhones and iPads ... aggiesal Nov 2019 #29
Android isn't much better. Initech Nov 2019 #39
I'm not endorsing any of these, but here are some options ... aggiesal Nov 2019 #40
I never thought it was that smart. triron Nov 2019 #4
The phone isn't really smart. It just does things the way it's set up MineralMan Nov 2019 #5
Very good points. Mine saved my Notes to the Cloud; had to shut that off! lagomorph777 Nov 2019 #7
Yes. Updates sometimes change things back to default settings. MineralMan Nov 2019 #10
Thanks, Dad Piasladic Nov 2019 #8
That's OK, Son. That's what I'm here for. MineralMan Nov 2019 #11
Thanks Piasladic Nov 2019 #12
Don't be an asshole n/t PasadenaTrudy Nov 2019 #35
Wired and a couple other outlets publish OS optimization guides Stryst Nov 2019 #13
So does my old Windows XP PC. MineralMan Nov 2019 #14
Check out Disconnect by privacy pro... Layzeebeaver Nov 2019 #15
Masterpiece: Press TheRickles Nov 2019 #16
How is having location services turned on going to harm you? LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #17
Big data can let your insurer know where you've been, how fast driving, etc. Health, car ins. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #21
That's a good point LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #25
If you get from point A to B 60 km away in under 30 min, it means you were averaging 120 kph (75 mph Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #30
Really? LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #32
You are arguing that it has to be perfect to be any good. That would be a mistake. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #33
Well, it doesn't concern me, but might concern others. MineralMan Nov 2019 #22
ha. I'm kind of glad it wasn't around back then either LiberalLovinLug Nov 2019 #26
I don't have one bucolic_frolic Nov 2019 #18
I go thru my settings carefully every week or two, especially after an "update" flying_wahini Nov 2019 #19
But, see, you have kept it far too long. You must now purchase a MineralMan Nov 2019 #23
I bought my 6s PasadenaTrudy Nov 2019 #34
I love my stupid phone. n/t TygrBright Nov 2019 #20
Yeah, I did to, for years. I had this cute Nokia tiny flip phone. MineralMan Nov 2019 #24
Too bad it's not just your phone, others are using ... aggiesal Nov 2019 #27
Don't have any TV in the bedroom, so no worries. MineralMan Nov 2019 #31
And Facebook's "inadvertent bugs" dalton99a Nov 2019 #36
I ride the bus, S.P. lets me know where the bus is. yortsed snacilbuper Nov 2019 #41
I have a flip phone. I love it, it's like Star Trek. hunter Nov 2019 #42

Liberty Belle

(9,528 posts)
6. True, nosy but I know lives it has saved.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 12:38 PM
Nov 2019

I've covered a couple stories about an elderly motorist whose car went down a ravine; he was trapped and the GPS on his phone led rescuers to him after he was reported missing. Same thing with an injured hiker.

It's not all bad, but people should know it is there and how to disabled the feature if you don't wish to be tracked.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
9. That is also how Maps know when a route is slow.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:09 PM
Nov 2019

Because they are compiling data from most people.

Also how they can tell you if a business is busy at the moment.

dalton99a

(81,086 posts)
37. It's three months at least - if you choose to automatically delete
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 11:57 AM
Nov 2019
Google says users will be able to choose how long location or web history is automatically saved to Google’s servers. You’ll be able to choose to let Google store your information from three to 18 months, and anything older than that will deleted from your Google account automatically on a rolling basis.

Google said the feature is rolling out over the coming weeks, so you might not see it yet. But you can check your Google account Activity Controls page to see if it’s available. When it is, you’ll note the new automatic deletion option under the Web & App Activity and Location History sections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/google-auto-delete-location-and-web-history-coming-soon.html

aggiesal

(8,864 posts)
38. 3-18 months ...
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 12:46 PM
Nov 2019

So I assume that would be 0-3 months or 0-18 months or anything
between 0 to 3-18 months.

Currently, you need to remember to visit Google and delete this information, or turn it off completely. But if you turn off location or web history, that can hurt your experience, as Google might not know enough about you to recommend things you might like.

What bunch of Bull $h1t.

Grammy23

(5,808 posts)
3. Thanks for the reminder, MineralMan.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 12:20 PM
Nov 2019

Often we take our electronics out of the box and do a quick set up to get started. Then we rarely go back to tweak the settings to our user needs. And security needs. I recently got a new iPad and got it set up pretty quickly in order to make it useable. I’ve gone back to check a few settings and discovered there are plenty that are already set up and I have NO IDEA what they do. So I need to do a bit of research to get better educated and make sure the settings are in my best interest — not the advertisers or Apple.

aggiesal

(8,864 posts)
29. I hate iPhones and iPads ...
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:58 PM
Nov 2019

because Apple puts apps on each that you can never remove.
I've tried to disable them, but when I reboot, apps are defaulted to start
regardless of what settings I changed.

Initech

(99,915 posts)
39. Android isn't much better.
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 12:48 PM
Nov 2019

Google and whatever carrier you decide to go with all put proprietary apps on your phones that you can't get rid of no matter how hard you try. I usually just disable most if not all notifications and they seem to go away.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
5. The phone isn't really smart. It just does things the way it's set up
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 12:34 PM
Nov 2019

to do them. Know who's smart? The company that made the phone, your cell provider, and all the apps companies. They're smart, and make maximum use of the phone's features.

Know who's not that smart? Most users, who simply accept what others have set up the phone to do. That's not always in your best interests, but it's always in the best interests of the companies who are doing the settings.

Think of your smart phone like you think of Facebook. You can use Facebook settings to control how that platform works and what you see. Most people don't bother, so they see what Facebook and advertisers want them to see. Companies take advantage of people's laziness about setting up their devices and other user settings.

You can control things, if you're willing to spend some time working on your setups.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
7. Very good points. Mine saved my Notes to the Cloud; had to shut that off!
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 12:42 PM
Nov 2019

I had already shut off most of the other intrusive crap, but after an update it started diverting my files to vaporland. Not very nice.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
10. Yes. Updates sometimes change things back to default settings.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:10 PM
Nov 2019

The phone doesn't tell you changes were made, either. Vigilance is needed.

Piasladic

(1,160 posts)
8. Thanks, Dad
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:07 PM
Nov 2019

God only knows how the Russkies and Google will get our apple/pear crumble recipes. Exploration is one thing, safety is another. Your advice is old. Yeah, Yah. it's not your phone settings..it's you.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
11. That's OK, Son. That's what I'm here for.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:12 PM
Nov 2019

Old news is new to anyone who isn't familiar with it. If you don't need the advice, that's good.

Stryst

(714 posts)
13. Wired and a couple other outlets publish OS optimization guides
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:42 PM
Nov 2019

My ten year old windows 8 box still runs great as long as I turn a bunch of needless BS off.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
14. So does my old Windows XP PC.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 01:55 PM
Nov 2019

I have it disconnected from the Internet now, but it's still there on a table next to my desk. It has my old favorite Word 2000 version on it, and I use it when i'm working on the book I'm writing, because I like Word 2000 for writing long documents.

It also has some old files on it that I'll probably never need, like ancient tax returns, etc.

However, there's a nice Windows 10 PC in front of me, with Office 365 that is constantly updated. I'd have Word 2000 on it, too, but it's no longer fully compatible with Windows 10. That computer is connected all the time, via an ethernet cable, to the router upstairs. It can also fall back instantly to wifi if necessary, or even to a 4G cell system, via a hot spot on my cell phone, although that's a rare event. It's always connected, because I'm always in need of being connected.

There's a Windows 7 laptop computer that will have to go to the computer dump soon. Microsoft is dropping security support for Windows 7, and that laptop wouldn't do well with even Windows 8, much less Windows 10. I don't care, though, I have a nifty tablet with a bluetooth keyboard and a mouse that I take with me these days. It's connected anywhere with wifi, but also has it's own Verizon 4G connection. Since I rarely work when I'm not at home, though, I'm switching over to just taking my Android phone with me. I have the cutest folding bluetooth keyboard for it that is a full size keyboard but that fits in my jacket pocket. So, I can write on my cell phone now, send the document to cloud storage and then work on it later when I get home.

Tech is amazing these days. I love it.

Layzeebeaver

(1,576 posts)
15. Check out Disconnect by privacy pro...
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:23 PM
Nov 2019

It monitors the behind the scenes connection you phone maintains. Quite interesting. Also give you the control over what connections to maintain.

Free to use or donate.

TheRickles

(2,001 posts)
16. Masterpiece: Press
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:30 PM
Nov 2019

The new PBS series "Press" touches on this issue. The 6-part mini-series is about the inner workings of a Fox-like newspaper in London, and how it competes with its more ethical rivals. One of the plot threads is about an MI5 program to use our wireless devices for surveillance. A very-well done series, with this timely warning as well.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,154 posts)
17. How is having location services turned on going to harm you?
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:43 PM
Nov 2019

I'm serious, I don't' get it. I have a cousin that is very paranoid about being tracked. So he always says "NO" to that request. He won't even give out his basic information to join message boards like this, or YouTube, etc...But that's another topic.

Tracking search and interests is more insidious on my home computer where I surf the most. I run Ghostery and turn off all tracking on Firefox.

But my phone is a tool I use, among other things, to get around. To find locations of kinds of businesses around my location. To get directions. Maybe to check the weather. All of those daily actions require my phone to know where I am. In fact to not use your location functionality greatly reduces the practicable abilities of one's phone.

What is the worst that can happen if Apple knows where I am at a particular moment? Because I just don't see how the cons outweigh the pros. I guess if I wanted to engage in some civil disobedience, covertly raise a banner, or a baby Trump, on some private property, and if I was ratted out, then the cops could get my phone to prove I was there. But in those instances, I'd hopefully remember to turn off my location tracking first.

I suppose if I were a career criminal I'd hate that feature.

Otherwise, it makes no sense to me not to use one's smart phone....well smartly.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,790 posts)
21. Big data can let your insurer know where you've been, how fast driving, etc. Health, car ins.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:50 PM
Nov 2019

You are betting you are smarter than Big Data.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,154 posts)
25. That's a good point
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:23 PM
Nov 2019

If they can take your phone and find out the speed you were moving at after an accident. Although I've never heard of that happening. But then again, if you were actually going too fast, you can't really say you were not in the wrong.

edit: I just did some Googling and I can't even find any article that says my iphone tracks my speed automatically. One has to buy an app for that. But the phone does keep a history of where you've been and when. Which you can disable. But again, the only way that is a problem is if I am involved in something illegal. or I am cheating on my wife maybe.

Health information. Well, I'm Canadian. (By your avatar I can guess you are as well?) so there is no danger of not being covered by insurance because of some kind of failure to disclose a pre-existing condition or something. I guess I'd be concerned if Apple was trying to sell that info. But I really can't believe that.

I suppose I'd be astonished how much information the police or government could pull up on me if they really wanted to. But I guess I've already conceded that in this day and age.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,790 posts)
30. If you get from point A to B 60 km away in under 30 min, it means you were averaging 120 kph (75 mph
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 04:01 PM
Nov 2019

If that repeats a few times, then they can conclude you are a speeder and risk-taker, since the highway limit is 110 kph or even 100 kph and increase your car insurance rates.

The phone does not track speed. But speed can be inferred from times and locations. That is a very simple inference, but there are much deeper ones that can be made. They don't have to take the phone. The info opted into via apps is already in the hands of Big Data.

This is why I said you may be betting you are smarter than Big Data, with the implication that would be a foolish bet.

Just as an example of data mining in operation, new thermoelectric materials were discovered. See excerpt below.

I am Canadian, but did not state it on DU until a week ago. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212657067


https://www.technologyreview.com/f/613933/ai-nlp-scientific-abstracts-material-science/
Natural-language processing has seen major advancements in recent years, thanks to the development of unsupervised machine-learning techniques that are really good at capturing the relationships between words. They count how often and how closely words are used in relation to one another, and map those relationships in a three-dimensional vector space. The patterns can then be used to predict basic analogies like “man is to king as woman is to queen,” or to construct sentences and power things like autocomplete and other predictive text systems.

New application: A group of researchers have now used this technique to munch through 3.3 million scientific abstracts published between 1922 and 2018 in journals that would likely contain materials science research. The resulting word relationships captured fundamental knowledge within the field, including the structure of the periodic table and the way chemicals’ structures relate to their properties. The paper was published in Nature last week.

Because of the technique’s ability to compute analogies, it also found a number of chemical compounds that demonstrate properties similar to those of thermoelectric materials but have not been studied as such before. The researchers believe this could be a new way to mine existing scientific literature for previously unconsidered correlations and accelerate the advancement of research in a field.

Related work: This isn’t the first time such techniques have discovered fascinating, sometimes surprising relationships in a vast amount of text. In 2017, for example, a paper published in Science found that the same technique used to process a giant corpus of text from the internet successfully reproduced historical human biases against race and gender, and even computed the ratio of men to women in different professions. These papers show how much rich information about our world is implicit in human language. Machine learning is now giving us the tools to unlock that knowledge.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,154 posts)
32. Really?
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 05:30 PM
Nov 2019

That would mean that all these things were true:
That the auto insurance companies can get access to that data. That they'd even take the time to data mine every insurance buyer on each road trip they took, to calculate and find the fastest trips you made, and then, without any real street level evidence, only the time you at A and the time you got to B, can use that mined data to legally raise your car insurance. I sure have never heard of that I think it would be illegal for insurance companies to do that.

Hey, its not that I am totally comfortable with how susceptible my phone is to data mining. I just can't think of more negatives than positives in using the phone with it knowing where I am, or even have been. If I ever decided to be a serial killer I might not be so comfortable with it, but until then, meh....

I use Ghostery, a program that blocks trackers, on my computer. But for things like my YouTube accoint, I acctually like that they make suggestions on the side bar for me based on my previous viewings and interests. Animal rescues, music reactions, and liberal YouTube shows usually come up for me. Saves me a lot of time.


The only one thing that somewhat concerns me is an extreme right wing government getting access to my internet activity, and can find out what I write on message boards like DU, or YouTube comment sections etc.. with some draconian plan of compiling a list of all the more liberal politically active citizens. But even then, until I fear they can not only do that, but can use it to attack me in some way, I don't care if they DO know I'm a lefty and have those opinions.



Bernardo de La Paz

(48,790 posts)
33. You are arguing that it has to be perfect to be any good. That would be a mistake.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 05:59 PM
Nov 2019

"all these things"
"every insurance buyer"
"each road trip"

It only has to be some buyers and some road trips. If they get samples of trip data and find sets of long trips, who is to say they can't ask for and be given more specific data. Get a hundred cases and the money adds up. Find a hundred variations on that basic idea and the money multiplies.

Like I said, I think you think you can outsmart Big Data.

Much depends on the exact wording of the agreement you click on, I suppose. If it specifies only data aggregated together anonymously, probably okay. Data "for marketing purposes only", prob ok. But I think I've seen ones that simply say something like you agree to share the captured data with "third party companies with which we have an agreement".

But there are scientific papers showing how individual data can be extracted from aggregated data even when anonymized. I remember hearing of one study of data from a supermarket, they were able to determine repeat shoppers just based on things like timings and items purchased so that the system could quickly recognize them without visual or facial recognition. (I'm not certain on particulars, but I found it very impressive not least because of its counter-intuitiveness.)

I do not think I can outsmart Big Data.

As to legality, I dunno and am not qualified, but I'd expect they could legally do that because of legal data sharing that happens between companies. They all share data with Facebook, Twitter, prob Google, all the bigs. Facebook et al share data in various degrees and forms with their "joint partners" or some such, meaning lots of companies.

Also, I think but do not know, that insurance companies have broad legal discretion to assess risk and "combat fraud".

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
22. Well, it doesn't concern me, but might concern others.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:50 PM
Nov 2019

Some parents use an app that lets them track their children's phones. Teenagers hate that, pretty much. I'm not sure how hard it is for the kid to disable it, but that's a clue in itself I suppose.

Of course the answer is a burner phone you actually take with you, while you leave the phone your parents pay for at the place where you told them you were going, or something like that. It could get confusing, though, I'd think.

I'm glad there was no such thing when I was a teenager.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,154 posts)
26. ha. I'm kind of glad it wasn't around back then either
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:26 PM
Nov 2019

But I'll bet any teenager now could disable or sabotage it in 5 minutes.

bucolic_frolic

(42,679 posts)
18. I don't have one
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:46 PM
Nov 2019

I like to get away from information flow and the internet. Sometimes it feels like 1985 all over again.

flying_wahini

(6,529 posts)
19. I go thru my settings carefully every week or two, especially after an "update"
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:47 PM
Nov 2019


Ticks me off to no end that Apple is going to stop supporting the 6S iPhone
which I have and love.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
23. But, see, you have kept it far too long. You must now purchase a
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 02:52 PM
Nov 2019

new iPhone 11. Apple has that planned obsolescence thing all figured out. When they think it's time for you to upgrade, you current phone becomes a boat anchor (or a fishing sinker).

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
24. Yeah, I did to, for years. I had this cute Nokia tiny flip phone.
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:00 PM
Nov 2019

Fit in my shirt pocket and could do phone calls, texting, and even had a 640x480 camera. Tiny little thing.

But, then, we decided to turn of our landline phone system. I was also tired of taking two tablets AND the flip phone on my trips to California to help my parents. There was no wifi where they were, so I had my Kindle Fire tablet with all my passwords to all my places in it. But it was wifi only. So, I took a cell-enabled tablet to use as a wifi hot spot, as well. Three devices. Three chargers. PITA!

So, I ordered a 5 1/2" Samsung A10e from Verizon to replace the beloved Nokia flip phone. I painstakingly set up all my websites and passwords, etc. on it. I got a super little folding keyboard for it that lets me type on a full-sized keyboard using bluetooth. It fits in my jacket pocket and holds a charge for days and days. Now, I just take my new phone with me, instead of two tablet devices.

Why didn't I set up the cell-enabled tablet with all my logins? Because it's my wife's tablet.

Anyhow, although I don't much like smart phones, I've finally reconciled myself to using just one device. The screen's too small, but is readable. I can type on it using a real keyboard, and can even use it as a wifi hotspot to talk to people's printers, so I can print out my boarding passes wherever I am.

Progress, I guess.

aggiesal

(8,864 posts)
27. Too bad it's not just your phone, others are using ...
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:54 PM
Nov 2019

Stay as far away from any Samsung Smart TV that has a camera or a microphone built in, because Samsung execs have already admitted that they secretly turn on both to spy on their customers.

Imagine that Samsung Smart TV you have in your bedroom to watch your Netflix on the built in Roku, and your partner decides to get intimate, so you turn your TV off. But you've only muted the video, the camera and microphone can still be accessed and turned on during those intimacy moments.

If the camera is on, it can be recorded. So you might appear, unbeknownst to you, on an adult site you probably never visit.

And nobody seems to care about their privacy anymore. Oh, well!

dalton99a

(81,086 posts)
36. And Facebook's "inadvertent bugs"
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 11:48 AM
Nov 2019
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/tech/facebook-app-camera-bug-trnd/index.html
Facebook bug accesses iPhone's camera while user scrolls through News Feed
By Allen Kim, CNN
Updated 4:47 PM ET, Tue November 12, 2019

hunter

(38,264 posts)
42. I have a flip phone. I love it, it's like Star Trek.
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 04:53 PM
Nov 2019

My cell phone company stopped supporting my old flip phone and paid me to take this new one, giving me a "free" phone AND a gift card because I waited until the very end of their support for my old flip phone and ignored all their messages urging me to buy a new smart phone.

My new flip phone is "smart" but not Android or Apple smart. It's operating system is KaiOS, I haven't installed any advertising supported apps on it.

When I'm traveling I bring my Chromebook. The Chromebook is also my kitchen table computer. I've had it long enough the letters are worn off some of the keys.

I have an Android tablet with a nice fold-up bluetooth keyboard but I've decided I hate it. The keyboard is great, and there are plenty of F-Droid apps that don't harass me with advertising, but the tablet form factor is just awkward and annoys me.

My expensive laptop, usually stays at home. When I travel I'm too likely to lose things or leave them in places where they get stolen. That's also why I don't buy expensive cameras any more.

I'm not sure how much spying happens with my Chromebook. I've turned the microphone and camera off. The only apps I commonly use are the browser with u-block origin, and Mado, which is a markdown text editor. I write everything in markdown.

I'm an adherent of the KISS principle (Keep it Simple Stupid!) because I'm frequently stupid.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Your Smart Phone Is Worki...