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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPa. bill would require death certificates for fertilized eggs that never implant in the uterus.
Anti-abortion lawmakers in Pennsylvania want to pass a bill that would require health providers to arrange burials or cremations for all of a person's "fetal remains," which under the lawmakers' terms, includes fertilized eggs that never implanted in the uterus.
But fertilized eggs must divide to become the ball of cells that implants in the uterus for a pregnancy to occur.
The proposed bill also means health providers would have to obtain death certificates for all fertilized, but not implanted, eggs, since in order to to obtain a burial permit, you first have to obtain a death certificate, Christine Castro, a staff attorney at the Pennsylvania-based Women's Law Project, told Vice. "The bill is written in a misleading way," she said.
If the bill, known as the "Pennsylvania Final Disposition of Fetal Remains Act," passes and isn't followed, it could result in a $50 to $300 fine or up to 30 days in prison for providers.
The problem is women, and even their doctors, can't track when or how many fertilized eggs don't implant in the uterus because those eggs typically dissolve in utero and are shed through a woman's menstrual lining every month, making them undetectable.
https://www.businessinsider.com/pennsylvania-bill-would-require-death-certificates-for-fertilized-eggs-2019-11
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Many bills are introduced. Few are passed.
Since it is impossible to detect fertilized ova that are not implanted, it's a ridiculous idea in the first place.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)might be passed by some extremist-heavy state government and at least initially result in action trying to keep an egg or fetus alive. Enormous medical bills are going to be run up as just the first indicator of what kind of costs to individuals, insurance companies and taxpayers considering fertilized eggs as people would mean. And of course females are going to be sent to prison for miscarriages and whatever. Remembering that young woman who initially was sentenced to 30 years under a law signed by Gov. Pence, later reversed.
Then more eyes will open. The satisfactions to some of persecuting unfortunates and to others romantically fighting for babies will be massively outweighed by realizations that the costs of continuing these satisfactions will be enormous to them personally, that good Christians like them are going to prison, and that it promises a future giant burden to society (i.e., them) of more often dreadfully ill children they didn't really want in the first place. And then it'll be repealed and this noise will disappear until the next era.
In this at least, libertarian, altruism-deficient billionaires are our best ally.
LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)And the penalty needs to happen during the legislative period. Something like their per diem is cut or the electricity is cut off in their office for a week. At the very least there should be sizeable article with the idiot's photo and the problem and stupidity of the person in both the state and local paper.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Republicans had a gameplan. When they won legislatures, they were going to gerrymander the shit out of districts to maintain and grow their advantage. What they didn't count on was economic growth diversifying large parts of their states, where that has happened, republicans are in retreat.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Women of all types, except for evangelicals are starting to see that they can't trust republicans with their and their daughters' wellbeing, that is why republicans are having growing problems with getting vote in inner and outer suburbs and why democrats have either flipped legislatures or have gained considerable ground and will eventually flip legislatures.
no_hypocrisy
(45,774 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)Ohiogal
(31,669 posts)Thats what they get butting up next to Ohio. The stupid, it travels.
Freddie
(9,232 posts)Hes the only thing keeping PA from turning into Alabama North.
Dagstead Bumwood
(3,528 posts)We caught it from Indiana. No, that was Kentucky, actually.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)because I was going to say now people will understand why Ohio and Pennsylvania share a border. They both have a lot of stupid law makers.
Ohiogal
(31,669 posts)At least they have a sane Governor over there.
Were stuck with a religion nut who looks like a garden gnome.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Ohiogal
(31,669 posts)I am ashamed that our state inflicted that idiot onto the nation. What a disgrace he is.
Freedomofspeech
(4,218 posts)We have West Virginia on our border. It is a nightmare.
sakabatou
(42,083 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)basic reproductive biology. Just like the idiots in Ohio don't get that ectopic pregnancies can't be re-implanted.
RainCaster
(10,691 posts)They are displaying their ignorance for all to see.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)A thoughtful politician doesn't go over well with the voters in the districts such idiots as the man that wrote that bill represent.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)I'm beginning to think this is a strategy (yep, I'm slow sometimes). They're trying to do what Trump does. Be so over-the-top crazy that we're no longer phased by anything. That way, when they propose the completely unreasonable, restrictive bills they really want, they hope we'll not notice because they don't include the crazy. Just the untenable.
thinkingagain
(905 posts)Miscarriages that happen spontaneously? Or naturally or whatever. If so is it then listed on the death certificate as an act of God?
Now a womens period is a result of. In fertilized egg
Maybe the women should sent the Congress their used tampons ( gross I know but to make a point) to them tell them its in lieu of a death certificate as nothing happened.
These people are getting more and more bizarre.
murpheeslaw
(110 posts)Shouldnt there be prosecution for wet dreams?🤪
durablend
(7,416 posts)And masturbation needs to be PUNISHED!!!!!!!
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Sez so in the Old Testament.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Even as a protest, you will likely be fined. You may even go to jail.
thinkingagain
(905 posts)It was just a moment of pure pissed off at their stupidity created my own train of not thinking clearly.
That is what is great about DU
Someone always has the voice of reason.😊
keithbvadu2
(36,369 posts)A miscarriage is an abortion.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)write an obviously insane law and it will immediately be ruled unconstitutional. The plan is to get one of them to the Supreme court where it can be ruled unconstitutional over all, but very narrowly constitutional.
That gives them the Roe override they need.
irisblue
(32,829 posts)6,533,392 females in PA per census, so guessing
6 million women times 400 cycles times an unknown number of hetrosexual coitus that occured without birth control means that a large number of women are going to get death certificates.
🙄
How TF is anyone going to keep track of that many premenopausal (primarily) hetrosexually active women?
This is some high grade BS
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)This article is a bit of creative writing that bears only a vague resemblance to the actual bill. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2019&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=1890&pn=2623
muriel_volestrangler
(101,154 posts)Here are the bill's definitions:
of a product of conception which shows no evidence of life after
the expulsion or extraction.
"Fetal remains." The fetus expelled or extracted in the case
of a fetal death.
"Unborn child." An individual organism of the species homo
sapiens from fertilization until expulsion or extraction from
its mother.
Duties of health care facilities.--Except as provided
under subsection (a), a health care facility that possesses
fetal remains shall have the following duties:
(1) Provide for the final disposition of the fetal
remains in accordance with the burial and transit permit
requirements under 28 Pa. Code Ch. 1 (relating to
(administration of vital records).
(2) Cremate or inter the fetal remains.
Individuals at home wouldn't have to inter or cremate a fertilized egg, but if any healthcare facility possesses it (an inpatient has a period?), they would have to. It doesn't specify that they have to do a microscopic examination to check for fertilized eggs, but then again, it just says "possesses", not "knowingly possesses" or similar.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)yet is nearly the entire focus of the article - which leads the reader who does not check the actual language of the bill to believe that it focuses primarily or exclusively on pre-implantation fertilized eggs.
It is clearly addressing something of sufficient size to be able to "show no evidence of life."
It is still a riduculous bill. But it should be ridiculeded from its intended coverage - treating a miscarried fetus as a child who was born and then died.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,154 posts)"its intended coverage - treating a miscarried fetus as a child who was born and then died". Their intention is clear - any fertilized egg. That's why they mention fertilisation and conception. And that means it includes (yes, the article uses the word 'includes' - it's in the opening paragraph, so no-one can believe it focuses exclusively on pre-implantation fertilized eggs) unimplanted eggs. It makes no mention of size, or miscarriage; it does mention fertilization.
And to think their intention is miscarriages is far too generous to them; miscarriages may well be mourned by the woman. It's terminations they want this to apply to, where the woman would almost certainly never want interment or cremation.
You can see they mean this to apply from the moment of conception; they want to change the state's definition of "fetal death" from "Fetal death is the expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of conception after sixteen weeks gestation, which shows no life after such expulsion or extraction" to leave out "after sixteen weeks gestation".
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Burying the remains of an early miscarriage? Good lord, who is going to pay for that? And why? What possibly is the point of that, except to make some stupid statement about terminated pregnancies--even those terminated by "God"-- must be treated like born humans?
These bills must be ridiculed and stomped on. They are meant to make women of reproductive age controlled by the government in ways no man is. And why? Because they hate women, what other reason could there be?
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)but we need to accurately represent what it is that is being ridiculed.
Pool Hall Ace
(5,849 posts)How can a death certificate be issued if there was never a birth certificate? Are they talking about a certificate of still birth?
Regardless, it is utter lunacy.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)it is the link from the article, which is also not working.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,217 posts)So that they can positively identify the remains first.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)Maybe these people should spend their time holding last rites over the toilet bowls of their fertile, female followers every month.
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)spanone
(135,636 posts)dawg day
(7,947 posts)It's not even usually obviously a miscarriage when an egg doesn't implant. Often it seems like just a late period (which is actually what it is).
The woman probably never knew she was pregnant, and in fact, she wasn't, because implantation is when the pregnancy really would start.
If the PA legislators want to take personal charge of this and sift through women's used tampons, they should say so.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)One Thursday I found out I was pregnant. On Friday, I miscarried. If I had waited one more day to take a home pregnancy test, I never would have known.
The conceptus was flushed down the toilet on toilet paper.
Turbineguy
(37,212 posts)with female members over the age of 12 would have to cough up for a funeral every 28 days per female family member.
Can the funeral industry handle that? 150 million funerals per month? That would keep over 1.6 million funeral homes in business. More if they take weekends off.
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)Or am I over-complicating this?
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Just to be on the safe side, you know. They can then decide whether or not to call in the clergy for a funeral.
Christ in a trailer hitch these people are insane. Disgusting. Misogynists. They really, really hate women.
And by now I hate them.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)The knucklehead brigade that comes up with these stupid ideas could see how many of these spontaneous abortions occur without human intervention at all. Which makes their God the author of more abortions than any humans ever could.
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)It has been a while since I took a tax class, but I believe if a woman delivers a still born or if there are complications at birth and the baby doesn't make it, and a death certificate is issued, the mother can file for a child tax credit.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,044 posts)TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Really? Is this where we are at now?
I cannot believe this shit.
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)The majority of them happen so early that the woman doesn't even know she's pregnant.
Gotta say the image of women sending their used sanitary napkins to republicans so they can find the egg is pretty funny.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)After all, it was his sperm that started the whole thing.