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H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:51 AM Jan 2020

"Juicy Fruit"

For many people, “Juicy Fruit” was the most memorable line of the 1975 movie, “One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.” The movie made the general message of the 1962 novel accessible. Author Ken Kesey, who had voluntarily taken LSD and mescaline as part of the infamous government “mind control” studies known as MK Ultra, had made an insightful statement on how society exercises control over the thinking of the general population.

So how, one might ask, might this 45-year old flick relate to the impeachment trial? Or is simply the incoherent ranting of an aging YIPPIE! Who chewed too much nicotine gum during the eleven hours of televised trial hearings yesterday? Perhaps all of the above? Or is Mitch McConnell actually nothing if not a character based upon the dehydrated corpse of Nurse Ratched? How can we be sure?

I think that the most important line of the movie comes from near the end. Randle Patrick “Mac” McMurphy has attempted to lift a huge stone sink, to throw through a window to allow the gang of inmates to escape the institution. But when he was not able to accomplish this goal, a couple others who do not really want to escape begin to mutter about the foolishness of Mac's attempt.

It is then that McMurphy says, “At least I tried.”

In the end, Will Sampson's character, “Chief” – Kesey's metaphor for the real America – lifts the sink, breaks out, and runs to freedom.

It may be that Nurse McConnell will prevent justice from being delivered in the Senate trial. His gang of republicans are clearly far too institutionalized to think for themselves, much less act as individual human beings. Time will tell. But one thing is for sure: Adam Schiff and others are doing a hell of a job.

At least they are trying. And, worst case scenario, if they cannot break through the corruption, the real America will do so come November.

67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Juicy Fruit" (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2020 OP
Beautiful analogy, H2O man. cilla4progress Jan 2020 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #27
K&R Docreed2003 Jan 2020 #2
Click on the "View DU Journal" icon next to H2O Man's number of posts. CrispyQ Jan 2020 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Jan 2020 #29
Wow...incredible Docreed2003 Jan 2020 #32
Some of the police H2O Man Jan 2020 #33
Oh I think you should definitely do that! Docreed2003 Jan 2020 #53
Last night, H2O Man Jan 2020 #65
That's really profound... 2naSalit Jan 2020 #4
Oh, I definitely agree! H2O Man Jan 2020 #30
Indeed. 2naSalit Jan 2020 #35
Thank you H2O Man! 7wo7rees Jan 2020 #5
Thanks, 7wo7rees! H2O Man Jan 2020 #31
As long as this Senate is in control, we once again have CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #6
I hear you, CaptYossarian Greybnk48 Jan 2020 #9
Those people who don't vote because "both parties are the same"-- CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #10
I'm reminded of H2O Man Jan 2020 #34
Excellent point. Great quote too. CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #51
Trump is H2O Man Jan 2020 #64
Well said. H2O Man Jan 2020 #37
When I was working, I made adequate money. Instead of planning to get deathly ill CaptYossarian Jan 2020 #52
Perfect analogy! Greybnk48 Jan 2020 #7
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #38
Love the way you express yourself. +1 BeckyDem Jan 2020 #8
Thanks! H2O Man Jan 2020 #39
Great movie, great analogy Bayard Jan 2020 #11
Thanks, Bayard! H2O Man Jan 2020 #40
Brilliant malaise Jan 2020 #12
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man Jan 2020 #41
Funny, I had the exact same though this morning... johnnyplankton Jan 2020 #13
Very good! H2O Man Jan 2020 #42
Excellent post. Thank you. n/t LuckyCharms Jan 2020 #14
Thanks, LuckyCharms! H2O Man Jan 2020 #43
Kick dalton99a Jan 2020 #15
Perfect! H2O Man Jan 2020 #44
"But one thing is for sure: Adam Schiff and others are doing a hell of a job." saidsimplesimon Jan 2020 #16
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #45
Kicking with thanks Hekate Jan 2020 #17
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #46
Spot on H20 Man! gademocrat7 Jan 2020 #18
Thanks, gademocrat7! H2O Man Jan 2020 #47
Totally spot on johnnyfins Jan 2020 #19
Thanks! H2O Man Jan 2020 #48
I wish I had a smidge of confidence in the real America. NoMoreRepugs Jan 2020 #20
There are a lot H2O Man Jan 2020 #49
Yes. Kings grant governance. Americans create it. nolabear Jan 2020 #21
Exactly! H2O Man Jan 2020 #50
A line that relates to Trump Bob Loblaw Jan 2020 #22
Mac was not H2O Man Jan 2020 #54
That was Danny DeVito, right? Bob Loblaw Jan 2020 #62
Here it is: H2O Man Jan 2020 #63
Excellent analogy. mountain grammy Jan 2020 #23
It was a great book & movie! H2O Man Jan 2020 #55
Come November 3rd, let's FLUSH THE TURDS. DinahMoeHum Jan 2020 #24
Yes! H2O Man Jan 2020 #56
After the Senate acquits, I'd like to see someone like Randall Patrick McMurphy ... Martin Eden Jan 2020 #25
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #57
The Republicans will own it Martin Eden Jan 2020 #61
🇺🇸 nt voteearlyvoteoften Jan 2020 #26
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #58
I'm at variance with your opinion. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #28
Not really. H2O Man Jan 2020 #59
You got it. nt coti Jan 2020 #36
Thanks, coti! H2O Man Jan 2020 #60
We need a break-out from the evil nurse's control. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #66
The impeachment trial H2O Man Jan 2020 #67

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
27. Thank you!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:43 PM
Jan 2020

I've got to say that I am so impressed with Adam Schiff. All of our team is outstanding, and I'm happy as can be with them. But Adam Schiff continues to amaze me.

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
2. K&R
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:03 PM
Jan 2020

Excellent perspective, as always, H20 man.

FYI...I've been meaning to comment on a thread of yours from a few weeks ago in which you told another wonderfully applicable Hurricane Carter story. Sadly, I've lost it. All that to say, I really appreciate your perspective and your posts during this tumultuous time.

CrispyQ

(36,225 posts)
3. Click on the "View DU Journal" icon next to H2O Man's number of posts.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:09 PM
Jan 2020

It's the 2nd one. It will take you to his journal page.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
29. Thanks!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:08 PM
Jan 2020

I had to go pay a couple of bills, and was thinking about your comment on Rubin. Now, this might sound like the long arm of coincidence, wrenching itself out of socket, but .... I was thinking about in April of 1974. But before I get to one night (I can't think of the specific date off hand), I should provide a little background.

In the months before, Rubin had told me that tensions were growing in a dangerous way in the prison. An inmate, for example, had been scalded to death by a broken pipe in solitary, which angered inmates. Rubin told me the environment was similar to that when, shortly after Attica, there was a riot. Rubin was recognized for protecting the warden and an injured guard.

I told him to step forward, and take control before a riot took place. He liked that, so he ran for the president/director of the inmates' "union." He won, which surprised the administration, so they attempted to block the results. But he went from hermit to director, and soon was helping make positive changes.

Rubin got inmates from the various gangs to turn in their weapons to him; he in turn delivered them to the administration. Soon sociologists, state politicians, and others were coming to the prison to meet with Rubin. Then, shortly after Muhammad Ali said he was coming to the prison for a boxing exhibition with Carter, to highlight his case, the administration took action. This episode is detailed in the beginning of the movie "The Hurricane," where 50 guards removed him, and delivered him to the Vroom Psychiatric Center for what was known as the "criminally insane" at that time.

A Princeton University professor named Sykes had studied Trenton State Prison in the late 1950s, and had recommended that those inmates recognized as leaders in the general population be placed in solitary confinement, or "exiled" to other institutions if necessary. "Just as the Deep South served as a dumping-ground for particularly troublesome slaves before the Civil War," he wrote, "so too can the mental hospital serve as a dumping ground for maximum security prison."

The letters from his isolation cell at Vroom were different than the previously typed ones. These were hand-written. I remember how they tortured my friend. But, in the end, Rubin sued in federal court, and his award paid for the private investigator who eventually identified who the actual gunmen were back in that Patterson bar. And it wasn't Rubin. (One of the two would admit to the crime years later.)

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
32. Wow...incredible
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:30 PM
Jan 2020

So much to unpack, but it's incredible to me that what was such an awful experience for him could be turned around and ultimately lead to identifying the real killer. Wow. I can't help but think about the line from the song "Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten foot cell"...can't imagine the type of perseverance he must have had.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
33. Some of the police
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:51 PM
Jan 2020

had been investigating the two men who were the actual killers. They believed the vicious murders were part of an on-going conflict between two groups of organized crime competing for control of vice in the city. As it turned out, those investigators were correct. But they investigation was cut short, when the department head started to obsess on Rubin and John Artis -- even though two of the victims had said it was not them. Indeed, one of the victims was able to identify the gunmen, but unfortunately died within a month of the shootings.

I've got so much of the case materials here -- along with letters from Rubin, John, and others -- that at times I think I should write a book.

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
53. Oh I think you should definitely do that!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 07:21 PM
Jan 2020

You have a knack for storytelling, and would provide such a great perspective having actually known Rubin.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
65. Last night,
Thu Jan 23, 2020, 03:18 PM
Jan 2020

I started going through some of the files I have from my 40+ years friendship with Rubin. I just may start an outline.

2naSalit

(86,048 posts)
4. That's really profound...
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:11 PM
Jan 2020

in good way.

I read the book before watching the movie years later. I have to say that it was the first movie I had ever seen which was so true to the book that it resembled my mind's eye version very closely. I never thought that was possible until then.

I agree with your comparison but I think there's a lot more detail to what we are seeing in the "trial" right now.

I think the intent of the House Managers is to expose to the public everything and forcing votes that will bite these guys in the * until and beyond November. On top of that, I think Ms. Pelosi has directed the crafting of these actions such that there is no questioning the sentiment of the electorate through the rest of the year. And I suspect citizen actions to increase through the warm months, I just hope it isn't too ugly. The point of this manner of presentation goes around the obstructions in giving the info to the public and fashioning widespread opinion that is sure to be overwhelmingly ready to overturn all R seats in the country by November. It's the only way we can make the ousting of an ogre work without a civil war.

But that's just my take on things this morning, that could change some by tomorrow morning!

Very thoughtful and thought provoking concept!


H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
30. Oh, I definitely agree!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:12 PM
Jan 2020

If there is any chance of convicting Trump in the Senate, I think that Adam Schiff is threading that needle. I think it's possible ....but not as likely as republicans failing to uphold their oath.

No matter what is the outcome, this trial is one for the history books.

2naSalit

(86,048 posts)
35. Indeed.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:57 PM
Jan 2020

There's a chance but I won't hold my breath. If we are going to get rid of him via election, we need to campaign for paper ballots everywhere asap to ensure the results.

All I can do is watch in horror right now, though.

Our history is now.

7wo7rees

(5,128 posts)
5. Thank you H2O Man!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jan 2020

Great post.
I hope we can ditch the saltpeter for good and get back to our lives in 2021.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
31. Thanks, 7wo7rees!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:17 PM
Jan 2020

Trump was sorely wounded when the House impeached him. The Democrats are inflicting more severe damage in this trial. Should Trump survive, we will batter him and his republican apologists come November. No doubt in my mind.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
6. As long as this Senate is in control, we once again have
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:19 PM
Jan 2020

Taxation Without Representation.

Right now, I'm without a Congressman, since Sean Duffy quit after his 9th ballplayer, er, child was born with a heart defect. That doesn't really matter, since he didn't do anything I would approve of or say anything I would agree with.

Being a lifelong and registered Democrat, I'm sure he would stick any of the letters I would have written to him right into the shredder. The same is true for Senator Moe-Ron Johnson. We're stuck with him until 2023.

My Disability pittance prevents me from sending these Republican rodents an attention-getting check, so I'm doubly screwed. But you should see the ridiculous campaign ads from the two nut jobs vying to replace Duffy. The frontrunner is actually shoveling manure, while the underdog is salivating over how great Trump is and firing off a shotgun.

As usual, the two Democrats in the race don't have enough nickels to rub together to afford TV ads or don't think it matters in such a drastically gerrymandered district. Again, I'm screwed.

Thank God for Senator Tammy Baldwin or my head would explode.

Greybnk48

(10,148 posts)
9. I hear you, CaptYossarian
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:28 PM
Jan 2020

We're in the Dark Ages in Wisconsin right now. I will add Gov. Evers to the "thank God " list, even thought he's in a street fight with the Fitzgerald/Vos brain-dead trust.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
10. Those people who don't vote because "both parties are the same"--
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:51 PM
Jan 2020

need to be smacked around.

If the differences aren't that obvious to them, maybe we can't trust them to make the right decision either. If they're that stupid, they'll just pick one-syllable names like Trump, Pence, Bush, Dole, and Kemp.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
34. I'm reminded of
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:54 PM
Jan 2020

Malcolm X's teaching: if you want people to act differently, you must first help them to think differently. When they think differently, they reach the level of understanding that requires them to act differently.

It can, of course, be mighty frustrating. If Trump asn't cured the disease of "they are all the same," I'm not sure what could.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
51. Excellent point. Great quote too.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 06:21 PM
Jan 2020

Asking Trump to cure the disease is like asking Typhoid Mary to do the same.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
37. Well said.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 04:42 PM
Jan 2020

My district was represented by Claudia Tenney, surely one of the most toxic republicans of recent times. A horrible human being.

I'm poor again, myself. Grew up poorer, so I developed some survival skills. But it can wear one down with the constant grinding. So I have limited funds to invest in any campaign. This is distinct from my experience in a period of life was I was temporarily wealthy (by my standards). And so I feel bad when a number of Democrats that I've donated to before ask for money.

What I do have is time. So I invest time and energy in those campaigns that I hope I can do the most good. It might be as simple as coordinating with a campaign for letters-to-the-editor, or going door-to-door.

CaptYossarian

(6,448 posts)
52. When I was working, I made adequate money. Instead of planning to get deathly ill
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 06:31 PM
Jan 2020

and "retiring" at age 50, I thought my good health would last forever. My disposable income was invested in saving the world.

At that time, I belonged to three environmental groups and three human rights groups. Behind me is a framed document that says I'm on the SPLC Wall of Fame for my generous contributions.

But because of about 20 prescriptions per day and 3 rides per week for medical & P/T appointments, I can't save the world anymore--even though these are as dire as straits as the world has ever seen.

That's why I blow off steam here.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
39. Thanks!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 04:48 PM
Jan 2020

Getting Trump out of office is my #1 goal at this time. One of my nephews just stopped by to visit me, and he was saying that he can't believe anyone could possibly support Trump at this point. We watched some of the trial coverage, and it seems obvious that he's as guilty as sin ....so his supporters simply do not care.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
40. Thanks, Bayard!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 04:50 PM
Jan 2020

I haven't watched the movie in some time. Maybe I'll get it out late tonight. (One year, I got two copies as Christmas presents!)

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
41. Thanks, Buddy!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 04:52 PM
Jan 2020

At least Louise Fletcher was a talented actress, and a nice person besides. Mitch? What a shit stain.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
16. "But one thing is for sure: Adam Schiff and others are doing a hell of a job."
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 01:13 PM
Jan 2020

As always, your posts are enlightening and "juicy fruit" for my eyes and mind. Thank you

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
48. Thanks!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 05:45 PM
Jan 2020

That is the quote! I appreciate you sharing it. It has been a while since I watched it, though I suspect I might be watching it late tonight.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,257 posts)
20. I wish I had a smidge of confidence in the real America.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 01:50 PM
Jan 2020

There are so many goobers and gomers in the red states making up the majority of the electoral college vote that I see NO path to victory.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
49. There are a lot
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 05:49 PM
Jan 2020

of people who support Trump, no doubt. I think many of them simply hate that which they consider "the government." That's really not surprising, I suppose.

But I think we are in good shape to beat them in 2020. The 2018 mid-terms were positive. Trump will be weaker in November, if he lasts that long. And he'll be a ball & chain on other republicans.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
21. Yes. Kings grant governance. Americans create it.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:00 PM
Jan 2020

Sometimes Americans are fools and want their lives granted them rather than face how hard it is to create what they want.

But I think we outnumber them. I think for the most part we’re Chief, and sometimes McMurphy. You’re right. They ARE America, not the frightened pets who take abuse for safety’s sake.

VOTE. And TALK to the complacent. Lift them up and scare them just enough so they feel mad but not powerless. We can do this. If I’m going to be a fool I’m going to be a righteous one!

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
50. Exactly!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 05:53 PM
Jan 2020

Really well said. Thank you for this!

I think that about 50% of potential voters do not participate in elections. We need to help them see the very real connections between their daily lives and "politics." That isn't easy. But it can be done.

Bob Loblaw

(1,900 posts)
22. A line that relates to Trump
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:21 PM
Jan 2020

When Mac is talking to the psychiatrist about his prior offenses and the topic of his sleeping with an underaged girl comes up he says, "She was 15 goin' on 35. Know what I mean Doc?"

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
54. Mac was not
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:35 PM
Jan 2020

an entirely likeable character, in that sense. But unlike Trump, he had a good side. We've never seen Trump take his White House staff on a fishing trip. I have an image of Stephen Miller tasting a bait fish's eye now!

Martin Eden

(12,802 posts)
25. After the Senate acquits, I'd like to see someone like Randall Patrick McMurphy ...
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:37 PM
Jan 2020

... do a running narrative of a guilty verdict with Trump being forcibly removed from the White House -- just like the scene in the movie when Nurse Ratched refused to turn on the TV for the World Series.

Mac did such a superb job describing the action on the field, getting everyone excited and cheering like they really could see it unfold.

It was an act of defiant spirit, and determination to RESIST.

We need to hold onto that spirit and determination through the November election, and beyond.


Then, at long last, we truly will have something to cheer about.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
57. Thank you!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:42 PM
Jan 2020

Well said! I like that! A lot!

From everything I'm seeing, the trial will inflict much more damage on Trump in the public's mind. I think that Adam Sciff is destroying Trump -- and exposing the republicans who support him.

If found "not guilty," will Trump be even more outrageous until November? Of course. And the republicans will own it.

Martin Eden

(12,802 posts)
61. The Republicans will own it
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:10 PM
Jan 2020

They richly deserve to be tarnished with the orange stench for the rest of their political lives.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
28. I'm at variance with your opinion.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:52 PM
Jan 2020

NOW is the time for removal. November will be too late. Why? An unchained Trump will be working night and day to cheat a win out of the next election. He will have no restrictions. He will know that impeachment means nothing. He’ll simply roll past any subpoenas and Court Orders. He’ll comply with no oversight attempts. He’ll solicit election assistance from any and all foreign sources, he’ll tamper with voting machines, and he’ll even attempt control over polling organizations. All of this will likely happen because of the alternatives for Trump. A loss would be a colossal one. He’ll lose all of his money, real estate, and power. He’ll be charged with multiple felonies.

So he has to win at any cost.

November will be too late. Trump will have consolidated his dictatorial powers by then and will control the election.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
59. Not really.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:55 PM
Jan 2020

No variance there at all. I know this is the time to remove him. But I also am aware that it is not likely to happen. I'm confident that you would agree that the republicans in the Senate are unlikely to join with Democrats in the numbers needed for a conviction. So, the question is: What then?

Obviously, if Trump isn't convicted by the Senate, he will continue to lie, cheat, break laws, and try to cheat in the November election. No thinking person doubts that. It's a given. Thus, again: What then?

I boxed in literally hundreds of bouts. This included against a number of dirty fighters. More, some of the dirtest were in their home town, so the referee wasn't going to stop then. I had a choice. I could worry about all the horrible things my opponent might do -- based on what he had already done. Or I could beat the fucking daylights out of him. Leave him a quivering pile of bloodied flesh on the ring apron. I always found the second option superior. Always. And as old as I am now, I still feel that way ....especially about politics.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,024 posts)
66. We need a break-out from the evil nurse's control.
Thu Jan 23, 2020, 03:31 PM
Jan 2020

The only trouble is that the Republicans worship wealth and power, due partly to brainwashing since the '80s, and see themselves better off to follow the orders of their superiors. They fear the punishment of the oligarchs they've courted and grown.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
67. The impeachment trial
Thu Jan 23, 2020, 03:37 PM
Jan 2020

should make it hard for those republican Senators supporting Trump to win re-election in numbers that I believe will result in our taking control in the 2020 elections. I'm not saying that it will be easy, by any means. Part of my day thus far has been studying where republican "dark money" is currently being invested, though at this time, my focus is on House races. It is indeed ugly.

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