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Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
Fri May 1, 2020, 10:17 AM May 2020

There is no "Gotcha" contradiction in Biden's stance regarding "believing" women who come forward

Both Joe and Mika tried so hard on Morning Joe today to prove that Biden was guilty of a double standard because of his public comments about Dr. Ford's testimony at the Kavenaugh hearings. Here is what Biden said then that they think supposedly traps him in a contradiction:

“For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts, whether or not it’s been made worse or better over time,”

Epic fail for Joe and Mika. The truth is staring them in the face but they refuse to look it in the eye. It's found in the words: "start off with the presumption" In scientific terms that is called a hypothesis, a preliminary assumption that then must be tested to see if it holds up under scrutiny. It is the rationale for investigating, not the conclusion of an investigation. Scientists don't establish facts through plausible conjecture. They use plausible conjecture ( a hypothesis) to justify making the effort needed to investigate whether it actually pans out in reality. Frequently a hypothesis proves to be correct. Often it does not.

Joe Biden believed then (at the Kavenaugh hearing) and he still believes today as an article or personal conviction that a woman who submits herself to the glare of national publicity by making an allegation of sexual misconduct against a prominent man deserves to be taken seriously. Being taken seriously means to conduct an investigation that searches for evidence supporting her allegation. But "presuming" that "at least the essence of what she's talking about is real" is a starting point, not a final resolution. It doesn't establish anything without evidence to support it.

In Tara Reade's case it is fair to assume that Joe Biden has first hand knowledge whether or not her allegations are true. He doesn't need any investigation to determine the truth, he already knows the truth. Why should he pretend that, when all is said and done, "the essence of what she's talking about is real" in this case if he knows for a fact that it isn't? Joe Biden is not telling anyone not to take Reide's allegations seriously, he is not condemning anyone for wanting to determine the facts. He welcomes a fair investigation. But it would be nonsensical for Biden to pretend that he doesn't know whether Tara Reide is telling the truth regarding him. Joe Biden doesn't need to investigate to find out what he already knows.

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There is no "Gotcha" contradiction in Biden's stance regarding "believing" women who come forward (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo May 2020 OP
Well stated still_one May 2020 #1
+100000 K&R Demsrule86 May 2020 #2
K&R Just_Vote_Dem May 2020 #3
He did well and Mika did not land any punches, though she really tried. Joe fully understands Ninga May 2020 #4
Well said. K&R crickets May 2020 #5
+1, believe women isn't the end of the matter its the beginning and her line of questioning was as uponit7771 May 2020 #6
Sound Points, Sir The Magistrate May 2020 #7

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
4. He did well and Mika did not land any punches, though she really tried. Joe fully understands
Fri May 1, 2020, 10:51 AM
May 2020

that truth is found in consistency and not wavering when scrutinized. Tara Reade, by her own words, is a liar.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
6. +1, believe women isn't the end of the matter its the beginning and her line of questioning was as
Fri May 1, 2020, 11:39 AM
May 2020

... if all Biden said believe women and that its.

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
7. Sound Points, Sir
Fri May 1, 2020, 11:41 AM
May 2020

Believing Trump and Kavanaugh and Moore guilty does not require lending the slightest credence to these 'charges' by Reade.

Finding a charge made by one person to be credible does not require lending credence to a charge some other person raises. Charges of criminal behavior should be assessed individually, and the credibility of the person making the charge, as well as the credibility of the charge itself, must be weighed.

Some claim falsely it does, that all accusations should necessarily be viewed as equal in weight. It is true that persons subjected to sexual assault sometimes take their time to come forward. It is also true people will often wait to launch a lie till the time seems right.

In the case of charges against Trump, Moore, and Kavanaugh, the persons laying the accusations are solid and credible, as are the accusations they make. They are not solitary accusers, in each instance there were multiple people coming forward. In each instance the accusations were consistent with known behavior, from the well documented media circus of 'Trump, the playboy', to what everyone knows is common behavior at beer-bash jock parties of the sort Kavanaugh himself documented attending, to the foul odor of pious fraud Moore has always reeked of, in his extreme denunciation of perversion in others. which so often betrays a guilty secret trying to break out in confession.

Reade has not just altered her claims over recent years, but has made them more extreme as each version failed to excite much attention. That is not a pattern of a truthful person, coming forward after a lapse of years, but the pattern of a calculating liar who is seeking to find what level of charge it will take to win notoriety, and damage the target of the lie. Even more telling is that when Reade finally swore out a police complaint, she omitted to include the name of the person she accuses. If someone will not swear to a charge under penalty of perjury, there is no reason whatever to believe that person making the charge when not under oath. Note that none of this makes reference to the well-evidenced flakiness of Reade, which opens the possibility she is simply a fabulist, or to her adherence to Putin and Russia, or to the obvious axes to grind which every person promoting her story has. These are, however, things which damage her credibility further.

It should be noted, too, that hypocrisy is dead as a charge of any weight in political life. No one is, and no one ought to be, deterred by a charge of hypocrisy from pressing the line best suited to the political needs of the present day. Well-meaning, good-hearted people who tend to the left need to learn not to allow their better natures to be taken advantage of by vicious scum on the right, and splinterest wreckers on the far left, who enlist them in their charges against figures of the center left, by exhorting them to 'be consistent' and telling them 'don't be hypocrites'. The proper response to attempts at this is a hearty "Fuck off! Nobody cares what a rancid piece of dogshit like you thinks!" Or words to that effect....

Only attack the enemy, the christo-fascist right.

Never, ever, attack people who are on your side.


If you want one quick reason why the right wing wields power well out of proportion to the popularity of its policies, it is that they adhere to this rule, and we on the left do not.


"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."

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