General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums(Doing A Corsi) About Viruses, the Vagal Nerve and a COVID Hypothesis
Sorry, doing a Corsi (citing a link to my own post from last week) due to at that time it was a hypothesis, however I have now found a link about how viruses can damage the vagus nerve. I want to raise awareness of this potential line of COVID research.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213365783
The new info is here.
Check out this link
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0196070901276650
To describe a condition that occurs following an upper respiratory illness, which represents injury to various branches of the vagus nerve. Patients with this condition may present with breathy dysphonia, vocal fatigue, effortful phonation, odynophonia, cough, globus, and/or dysphagia, lasting long after resolution of the acute viral illness. The patterns of symptoms and findings in this condition are consistent with the hypothesis that viral infection causes or triggers vagal dysfunction. This so-called postviral vagal neuropathy (PVVN) appears to have similarities with other postviral neuropathic disorders, such as glossopharyngeal neuralgia and Bell's palsy.
As I posted in the OP above, do enough damage to the vagus nerve at the cervical (throat) level to lab animals and they animals quickly develop pulmonary congestion and die. According to the article above, milder degrees of damage can impair swallowing leading to aspiration which can cause pneumonia.
Meaning that viral damage to the vagus nerve has been documented (in the past with other viruses)
This type of nerve injury would explain why people who don't seem too sick suddenly crash and burn with fluid filled/stiff lungs. I have also heard anecdotal reports from ER doctors that patients with COVID have tachycardia out of proportion to their degree of illness. Vagal nerve damage might cause tachycardia.
I really think it is time for the neurologists to step in and investigate the neurological effects of COVID more thoroughly.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)TY for posting!
Have you read Dr. Porges' Polyvegal theory (autism)?
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)It is not a study (yet). However two patients were treated with vagal nerve stimulation for COVID and here is the result.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ner.13172
Abstract:
"Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‐19), caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2), is a pandemic with no specific therapeutic agents and substantial mortality, and finding new treatments is critical. Most cases are mild, but a significant minority of patients develop moderate to severe respiratory symptoms, with the most severe cases requiring intensive care and/or ventilator support. This respiratory compromise appears to be due to a hyperimmune reaction, often called a cytokine storm. Vagus nerve stimulation has been demonstrated to block production of cytokines in sepsis and other medical conditions. We hypothesize that non‐invasive vagus nerve stimulation (nVNS) might provide clinical benefits in patients with respiratory symptoms similar to those associated with COVID‐19.
Materials and Methods
Information on two case reports was obtained via email correspondence and phone interviews with the patients.
Results
Both patients reported clinically meaningful benefits from nVNS therapy. In Case 1, the patient used nVNS to expedite symptomatic recovery at home after hospital discharge and was able to discontinue use of opioid and cough suppressant medications. In Case 2, the patient experienced immediate and consistent relief from symptoms of chest tightness and shortness of breath, as well as an improved ability to clear his lungs.
Conclusions
Preliminary observations and a strong scientific foundation suggest that nVNS might provide clinical benefits in patients with COVID‐19 via multiple mechanisms."
ananda
(28,783 posts)The word vagus stems from the Latin word for wandering, a testament to the nerves uniqueness as the most extensive and most wide-ranging cranial nerve. The vagus nerve originates in the brain stem and extends to multiple organs, including the heart, lungs, spleen, liver, stomach, and kidneys.
.....
What does the vagus nerve do?
The primary functions of the vagus nerve break into four categories, including:
[1] Parasympathetic: Responsible for the operation of the digestive tract, heart rate, and respiration.
[2] Special sensory: Provides the sensations of taste from behind the back of the tongue.
[3] Sensory: Operating specific mechanisms of the abdomen, heart, lung, and throat.
[4] Motor: Enabling the movement of neck muscles, enabling speech and swallowing.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Nicotine plays a role in the cholinergic system that may be impaired in COVID.
https://nemertes.lis.upatras.gr/jspui/handle/10889/13431
Abstract:
"
COVID-19 is a disease caused by a novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. On March 23 we presented evidence of a low prevalence of smoking among hospitalized patients with COVID-19 in China, and we were the first to establish the hypothesis that nicotine may be beneficial for COVID-19 and should be evaluated in clinical trials due to its anti-inflammatory properties. While in many cases the disease is mild, severe COVID-19 is characterized by a hyper-inflammatory response, commonly called cytokine storm, and is characterized by the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines that may lead to Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome and death. The cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway is an important immune-regulating system mediated by nAChRs that can control inflammation and function as an immunomodulator through a bi-directional communication between the immune and nervous systems. The clinical manifestations of cytokine storm observed in COVID-19 could be linked to a dysfunction of the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway. At the same time, several patients experience neurological symptoms that could be explained by the invasion of the virus to the terminal area of afferent vagus fibers or the origin of the efferent vagus fibers, further dysregulation the inflammatory response. Anosmia has been experienced by several patients, a phenomenon that has been observed in patients with Parkinsons disease and is caused by impaired cholinergic transmission. Thromboembolic complications, activation of platelets and endothelial damage with increased vascular permeability indicate ineffective control by the nicotinic cholinergic system. Considering that most of the manifestations of COVID-19 are linked to impairment of the nAChRs, we make the hypothesis that COVID-19 may be a disease of the nicotinic cholinergic system. We present regions with four or five amino acids homology between the SARS-CoV-2 and several neurotoxin molecules which act as competitive inhibitors in nAChRs. We propose that nicotine could be used therapeutically and should be urgently evaluated in clinical trials.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Hugin
(32,778 posts)overstimulating mine.
Yeah. Look into it! Now!
crickets
(25,896 posts)planetc
(7,718 posts)What I mean is, what are the side effects of nicotine on non-addicts? Are there side effects? Are they severe? My impression of the medical response to CO-19 is that "novel" treatments are being tried if there is any reasonable chance they might benefit the patient. New patients are being turned on their sides or prone in an attempt to improve their breathing without resort to a ventilator. I suppose what I'm talking about is turning already sick patients into experimental test subjects. But I can see some problems: if you're already having great difficulty breathing, are you going to be able to concentrate on giving your informed consent?
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)the receptors which are involved in the many functions of the vagus nerve. I will try to do some research and see.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Link here
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04341415
Estimated to have results in June.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)There are lots of external vagus nerve simulators out there. However, if you want to increase your vagal tone (meaning that you reduce your adrenergic or fight or slight tone) without spending hundreds of dollars here is how you do it:
It is all about your breathing. If you breathe quickly and spend a lot more time breathing in than breathing out, you are stimulating your fight or flight autonomic system. Your heart rate will go up. Your peripheral perfusion will go down. Your hands and feet will feel cold. You will feel nervous.
If, on the other hand, you slow down your breathing and especially if you breathe in quickly through your mouth filling your entire lung (that means letting your abdominal muscle relax since full lungs will cause the abdomen to protrude) and then breathe out through your nose very slowly and very steadily to the count of 8 to 10, you will notice after 5-7 breaths that heart rate goes down and your hands and feet warm up. If you have migraine headaches or cluster headaches, you will also notice a change in your headache. It may feel a little bit worse for a few seconds due to more blood flow to the inflammed areas making them more sensitive,but if you do not tense up and instead ride out that slight increase in pain, your migraine or cluster headache will get better.
Exercise also increases vagal tone. That is why athletes will typically have lower resting heart rates.
If you just can;t seem to get the breathing right, I suggest yoga. You can go online to find videos that show yoga breathing exercises.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Women have vaso-vagal spells also known as "hot flashes". Could these episodes of flushing and increased perfusion make up from otherwise impaired perfusion?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00152/full?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.kz%2Fnews