General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHowcum the Republicans are SO much better
Than Dems at messaging?
Ive been watching the Lincoln Project ads. Theyre terrific. Perfect actually. And yet for all the years Ive been watching Dem ads railing against the same miscreants, we have never been able to hit the nail on the head the way they can. That a Forced Retirement Senate ad is remarkable. Paced perfectly and WHAM!
When I was young my mother of blessed memory told me that it was the Coolidge Campaign that figured this all out in the beginning and they have been refining the tactics for generations.
A great Dem Ad, that of the atomic bomb going off while the little girl picked at the flower was pulled because it was too harsh. Too bad. the Republicans would have doubled down. We never learn. The Rethugs hated that MCCAIN said that OBAMA was a decent family man. This is anathema to them. It should be for us too then. Kick them when theyre down and stomp them some more after that. Nothing and no one is off limits.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)they would never be able to sell unpopular and damaging ideas to voters without their brilliant messaging and marketing skills. We would be served well recruiting some of those people into dem party to focus on negative campaigning.
PCIntern
(25,345 posts)EarlG
(21,894 posts)Essentially the Republican party is a bunch of snake oil salesmen at the top, and rubes to be fleeced at the bottom. It's why Trump was such a perfect fit for them. It's also why there's no friction between the most immoral president in history and so-called "Christian" leaders on the right. They are birds of a feather, and they recognize that in each other.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Let us prey and let us pray - a perfect marriage. Additionally lots of Dems don't like playing dirty or hating.
They'd better learn because these criminals are ruthless.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There is a guy in Florida, I forget his name, but he occasionally appears on MSNBC. He was at one time a massive republican operative in Florida, very good at it. He had a come to Jesus moment when Florida republicans were trying to disenfranchise every democratic voter that they could. He slowly became a virulent enemy of that party and actually supported Elizabeth Warren in our primary, he is backing Biden now. A guy like that would be someone that we would want to work with.
I am not so sure about Rick Wilson, at times he seems to have gotten it, but would he back the range of democratic office seekers in our party? A similar question can be asked about Steve Schmitt, to a lesser extent, I think that Steve will not be going back to the repugh, same with Nicole, I believe both them are closer to moderate democrats now.
rockfordfile
(8,682 posts)TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)they are better at calling out their own because who else would know more about it? I have no problem with scorched earth on those who most deserve it, but remember the Gandhi saying "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - at some point we have to pull back and just let them burn themselves into the ground.....
it's obvious no matter what Dump's 'advisors' tell him he doesn't listen, and if they tell him too many times he just fires them and hires more syncophants. What we have to do - like Adam Schiff and others have been - is just stay strong, keep telling the truth no matter what, and karma should take care of the rest - if everything doesn't go up in flames first.....what we really need to do though is get the true Himmlers like Miller, DeVos and Barr outta there - I'm surprised Pompeous is still there, quite honestly....
vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)Ala Russia and social media
struggle4progress
(118,039 posts)edhopper
(33,204 posts)always seems to accept the Repuke take on things. They slant their reporting with the GOP mindset. So deficits are important when we talk about stimulus or social spending, but NOT when we talk about tax cuts.
rurallib
(62,344 posts)90% of the media that is more than willing to blast their messages 24 X 7 X 365 so that their talking points become the very coin of the realm for political discussions.
Even such reputed "neutral" purveyors such as NPR most always use the Republican points as the basis for their news stories and commentaries. They frequently go to places like the Heritage Foundation for "experts" while never identifying that such places are right wing.
I live in Iowa. Any radio station I can get is right wing or NPR. I have no choice. The newspapers lean right to very right and the TV stations are all owned by out of state RW companies. The closest Lefty radio stations are in Minneapolis or Chicago.
Even the cable systems are overloaded with RW stations vs anything close to liberal (MSNBC is split) The only truly lefty cable station is Free Speech TV which few people have heard of.
So with RW sources blasting at most of us all day and the fact that most of us have very little political filtering, we tend to accept the RW crap that is thrown at us as the norm.
I was raised Catholic. We only had Catholic friends and participated in Catholic activitiesSince the only information I ever got was Catholic, I was just totally Catholic as the only way until I accidentally stumbled outside that box. That is the dilemma we have in this country. The right has such a chokehold on the media it is hard to find anything else unless a person actively seeks it.
CrispyQ
(36,225 posts)For some unfathomable reason, we dont focus enough time/money on crafting the most compelling messaging possible. We have the best story but we dont master the telling.
They have numbers (stations, etc) and they have salesmanship nailed.
I also believe theyre more motivated in the sense of being driven to action by hate than we are by love/humanity.
We should have Lakota and the sharpest marketing firms in the country honing messaging right now. Im hoping Perez and the others are on this.
CrispyQ
(36,225 posts)We've let the right frame the debate for so many decades now, we are seriously behind the eight-ball. Most of rural America has a negative opinion of democrats, thanks to over 30 years of right wing hate radio, which has gone completely unchallenged by our side. Ask rural America what republicans stand for and they will tell you the GOP is the party of God, of family values, of small government, and of fiscal conservatism. Democrats on the other hand, are godless socialists, who want to take your hard earned money and give it to uppity women for abortions and lazy minorities who don't want to work. Doesn't matter that none of that is true, they've heard it on radio for most of their lives. And now they hear it on Fox and read it on right wing hate sites.
Our side dropped the ball big time on messaging and I don't see any move to fix that oversight anytime soon. What the fuck?
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Truth hurts, and people DO NOT want to listen to it! They would rather let their Grand-Ma or Pa die and blame the Dems!!!
dalton99a
(81,065 posts)The famous Daisy Girl Ad from LBJ:
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)makes getting your message across much easier.
Having a near unlimited cash spigot, courtesy of a gaggle of millionaire and billionaire backers, allows them to hire the best spin doctors and social media maestros.
Dominating talk radio provides an unchallenged platform to get their views across.
Last but not least having religious figures promote you from the pulpit and via books and tv broadcasts helps keep the sheep in line.
Paladin
(28,202 posts)This constant, deadly refrain that Democrats can't go after Republicans because we dare not "go down to their level" is in large part why we have a scumbag like trump in the White House. Face facts: trump has given Democrats a hundred years worth of material for effective political ads and other opposition tactics---but it's not worth anything unless we utilize the rules that are currently in effect, ugly and repulsive as those rules may be.
If not now---when? If not now---why?
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)age of United, somehow Democrats are supposed to get elected without raising money...
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)I don't really disagree with you, my only point is that at some point, we become no different than them. There have been experiments with D media (AirAmerica comes to mind) but because it doesn't focus on manufactured 'crises' every minute of every day like Faux News, after a while people confuse it with NPR and just tune out and the advertising $$ go away and that's that. Look how hard NPR has to scrabble for Dump to even fund it, and it largely stays OUT of politics??
So I'd answer - 'Still now' and 'still needed', but we need the Joseph Welch's and Edward Murrow's of the world at the ready, the whole time, to keep us OUT of the corrupt morass when the time comes (and it surely will):
https://www.britannica.com/topic/McCarthyism
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Republican...they vote for the policy and the courts. Democrats need to vote blue no matter who or the GOP will continue to win.
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)They may be dismayed by Trumps actions but they will vote GOP because its the party that opposes abortion.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Once we have a nominee for any office, we either support him/her or we don't...if we don't a GOP is elected. And there are no Republicans who are better than any Democrat. Imagine if we had Pres. Obama's back in 10 and later in 14. There will be no progressive policy until we vote blue no matter who...in presidential elections, mid term elections and state elections as well.
misanthrope
(7,405 posts)Conservatives are more comfortable with authoritarianism, with deference to power, doing as told and marching in lockstep. It's just part of the psychological framework.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)samsingh
(17,571 posts)in an imperfect world. In my opinion, we'll kill ourselves over a drunkan man making a stupid pass at a girl and allow repugs to get away with violent rape and murder.
It's honestly baffling and disallusioning.
How the 'f' did repugs convince the public that John Kerry a man who volunteered to go to Viet Nam for his country was a coward, while george bush and trump who lied to get deferrals were the brave ones?
tanyev
(42,358 posts)You, the employee, are there for your shift and then you spend the rest of your time dealing with spouse, kids, bills, groceries, doctors appointmentsall the stuff of real life. Any inmates who are inclined to mess with you have all their waking hours to think of ways to make your life miserable.
I think most Democrats genuinely want to fix problems and want the country to run well for everyone. Campaigning is merely a necessary evil to put them in a position to do that. When we get a big win, like Obama winning the White House, they want to focus on getting things done. Continuing to do lots of media appearances or go after Republicans is not an effective use of time.
Republicans, on the other hand, are not interested in fixing anything. All they care about is interfering with what Democrats are trying to accomplish. They can spend all their time working on messaging and media appearances, because theyre not trying to accomplish anything else.
moose65
(3,164 posts)Republicans are great at campaigning AGAINST something, then when they win they spend their time NOT doing anything. They dont care about making the government run effectively- thats boring to them. Then when they lose control, they take their ball and go home - theyre not interested in working with Democrats at all, even on things they agree with. The best example of that is to look at how the stimulus bills (plural) have worked this year in comparison with Obamas stimulus (singular). Not a single House Republican voted for the 2009 stimulus, even though when the money was given out in their districts they bragged about it. If Obama had tried to do multiple bills, they wouldnt have voted for any of them.
In It to Win It
(8,142 posts)Republican message: We want you to share in America's prosperity. We want you to provide for your family, make more money, and build wealth!
Stupid person: I want to provide for my family, make more money, and build wealth!
Republican message: Here's how we do that... loosen some of those stringent business regulations to make it easier and less costly for you to start a business.
Stupid person: Ok, I'm down. I want it to be less costly for me to start a business!
Republican message: Let's cut taxes so that the businesses can invest more in the USA, create more high quality jobs, and raise wages and give bonuses.
Stupid person: Hell yeah! I want my raise and hopefully, I get a bonus. More people can have jobs! This is awesome!
Republican message: We should not raise the minimum wage because it would increase costs for businesses. To decrease costs, they would cut jobs or ship them overseas to cheaper labor markets.
Stupid person: I agree! I don't want my job at risk.
Republican message: That American dream is just around the corner if you work hard enough!
Real message: Work tirelessly for the wealthy and be grateful for the scraps they decide to give you.
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It's far more challenging to sell a social safety net dream.
Kid Berwyn
(14,650 posts)Buys the best megaphones. Details from the late Alex Carey, who said that the people of the US have been subjected to an unparalleled, expensive, 3/4 century long propaganda effort designed to expand corporate rights by undermining democracy and destroying the unions. Careys unique view of US history goes back to World War I and ends with the Reagan era.
https://tucradio.org/podcasts/newest-podcasts/alex-carey-corporations-and-propaganda-part-one-of-two/
And Part the 2nd:
https://tucradio.org/podcasts/newest-podcasts/alex-carey-corporations-and-propaganda-part-two-of-two/
Baltimike
(4,125 posts)Takket
(21,424 posts)Democrats are thoughtful, factual, inquisitive..... frankly we expect politicians to back stuff up and believe in watching what people do, not what they say.
Rethugs on the other hand are lemmings....... they will take whatever they are fed up until the point of it literally killing them...... so the message rethugs puts out there are easily absorbed by the 40% of the population they control.
TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)there are corrupt D's too - ask Dan Rostenkowski. Clinton's little "I feel your pain" shenanigans in the 90s would be an even bigger deal today, there's a reason he keeps a much lower profile of late. And 'machine politicians' have existed in both parties - yet we got Truman, one of our best, out of that system too. it's as much about the values and integrity of the politician, regardless of party, too.
Maybe the D's don't start every sentence with 'how can I protect the rich' or 'how can I protect Big Oil, Big Data, etc.' but there is a wide degree of perspective even between Pelosi and Warren, even between Harris and Abrams, I'm sure. that doesn't mean we can't unite to CRUSH the Talking Toupee (and get him into jail where he deserves to be) but we need to start by getting rid of DINOs too - that means Frackenlooper, that means Hoyer, etc. - it can't be just about 'the majority' when people like that undermine our cause because of too much political $$ flying around....
mnmoderatedem
(3,706 posts)thus carries more weight. We can, and do, say the same things and it is dismissed as partisan rhetoric.
Yavin4
(35,356 posts)Ads targeted to the base communicate better to a wider audience because they're clear and show strength.
Ads targeted to the other side have a muddled, unclear message.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)Drives me insane how "polite" we must be.
PCIntern
(25,345 posts)ananda
(28,782 posts)Dems have a much better message.
But it gets lost in all the rightwing howling on
our corporate fascist radio stations and tv shows.
You can blame the loss of Fairness in Media for this;
and on Citizens United.
LizBeth
(9,946 posts)media, voters and our party ourselves, who we are to be compassionate people.
PCIntern
(25,345 posts)LizBeth
(9,946 posts)You had to totally pull that out of left field to throw out that rant.
PCIntern
(25,345 posts)Just that word is not to be used in a sentence I utter where they are concerned.
JI7
(89,173 posts)whether Democrats had gone too far .
Iggo
(47,487 posts)spanone
(135,633 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)If they mistake their aim and hit below, they just view that as collateral damage done for a good cause. In a nutshell, that is the difference, we worry about hurting innocents, they don't.
betsuni
(25,127 posts)There was a "Prairie Home Companion" skit in the 90s called "Adventures in Ethics." Garrison Keillor was "the Limbaugh of the liberals," the host of a radio talk show. He'd rile up listeners by telling them that Newt Gingrich was taking funds for school lunches and using them to build nuclear weapons, had plans to put orphans in internment camps, wanted the Nazi point of view included in textbooks, that the NRA was confiscating pets to use them as targets for Neo-Nazis. Listeners would call in, furious.
His conscience started talking to him, he felt guilty, but the show was a big hit and the radio station was happy: "You can't go to war with a pocket of marshmallows."
But that would never work. Liberals don't respond to hate and fear and lies. I don't really understand the "messaging" thing. There has to be a rabbit in the hat before a magician can pull a rabbit out of the hat. You are susceptible to propaganda or you are not.
TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)say what you want about Al Franken, and yep, he paid the price for a stupid mistake - that compared to say, Bill Clinton was pretty small and overhyped in the end - but he was great at sticking it to those [bleeps] via his books and similar way before he got elected to Congress. We need more like that - like The Onion, like The Yes Men - etc. - people who stand up and skewer these POS' every time they open their mouths.
While i'm so glad the 'graduating class of Jon Stewart (Hasan, Sam Bee, John Oliver and Colbert) are sticking it to the man (and while he came later, Trevor Noah, and Jimmy Kimmel, Seth carry it too) - we still miss ol' Jon - we miss you! he had the attention of so many and you can BET he'd be in there swinging too.....Sometimes, comedians have to simply lead the way. Where is Greg Giraldo when we need him (sadly dead, RIP).
betsuni
(25,127 posts)What?
TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)meaning that Al Franken did some stupid stuff with the photos he took while on that military tour, which ultimately cost him his job - but compared to Bill Clinton cheating on his wife (more than once) and lying about Monica (thereby largely ruining her life until very, very recently) - it was pretty small potatoes - that was my point...?
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)albacore
(2,387 posts)Dems have nuanced messages. It takes a paragraph - minimum - to explain why "free" college is a good idea. It takes a couple of paragraphs to explain any complicated subject.
Repubs... since Reagan, anyway... don't read. Period.
And if they watch TeeVee... it's Fox or the like.
Stupid has become popular in the Republican leadership(?).
Republicans used to be the educated Party. Not any more.
"In 1994, 39% of those with a four-year college degree (no postgraduate experience) identified with or leaned toward the Democratic Party and 54% associated with the Republican Party. In 2017, those figures were exactly reversed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/21/as-americans-become-more-educated-the-gop-is-moving-in-the-opposite-direction/
TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)you got it...
https://www.redbubble.com/people/ampuloso/shop
albacore
(2,387 posts)But Dems CAN read, and they generally prefer the reasoned approach.
TheNewNumberTwo
(70 posts)in many ways it isn't the Dems we are trying to convince - we are trying to convince all those so-called 'independents' that only pay attention at the last minute, long enough for R lies to "convince" them, and then they can explain away their accountability later when they aren't paying attention again (Well, I never voted for THAT?!) - either have principles, or don't pretend otherwise and don't vote.....
dustyscamp
(2,221 posts)They post current event articles by rw hacks and spin the story in away to make it seem that the Liberals are actually the bad guys.
It happens a lot on subreddits like /r/Defranco which is supposed to be a nonbiased subreddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeFranco/new/