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PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
Sat May 30, 2020, 10:48 PM May 2020

Imagine that in 1939 you'd planned a trip to Europe next year, in 1940.

And then WWII breaks out. Obviously you won't be making that trip. And, early in 1940, you can't begin to imagine what will happen, how all this will play out. There are those who say this war won't last very long, and those who, mostly silent, understand it might last a heck of a lot longer than most people think.

Time passes. Eventually the war comes to an end. And you are still hoping you might take that trip planned so very long ago.

This is where we are now, in the beginning of 1940. We are hoping things will soon return to what they've been, and we can take that trip to Europe. But the reality is, we are now at the beginning of WWII, and we don't know how long it will last. Or how terrible it will be.

Eventually, this will come to an end. We will survive the crisis. We will be able to plan that trip to Europe. But the Europe we visit will be very different from the Europe we thought we'd visit back in 1939.

I honestly thing this metaphor is one we should stick with. Things are changing, and changing far more than we might have imagined. Europe in 1946 is very different from Europe in 1939, and that's the example we should remember.

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Imagine that in 1939 you'd planned a trip to Europe next year, in 1940. (Original Post) PoindexterOglethorpe May 2020 OP
Like someone said, not riots...revolution Karadeniz May 2020 #1
My Dad was a young student in 1950 when he visited Europe, especially Germany Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #2
Thank you for that. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2020 #3
Thanks for sharing your experience! I had a similar one in the USSR! Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #4
Thank you for your post. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2020 #7
Wow! That does sound amazing! Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #8
Thank you for that before and after pic, Rhiannon. smirkymonkey May 2020 #9
I know exactly what you mean. The history in other countries boggles the mind Rhiannon12866 May 2020 #10
My Mother's distant cousin got trapped in Italy when WWII broke out. rickford66 May 2020 #5
The Revolution is Being Televised Live Stallion May 2020 #6

Rhiannon12866

(202,979 posts)
2. My Dad was a young student in 1950 when he visited Europe, especially Germany
Sat May 30, 2020, 11:15 PM
May 2020

The damage from the war was still prevalent. When he returned there a few decades later, he most wanted to visit Munich where he said he stayed in a hotel where the first 8 floors had been burned out. And he also saw Berlin, said different Allies were in charge of the city on different days. He said you wanted to steer clear of the city when the Russians were in charge. It took them a long time to rebuild:

Munich, then and now:


PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
3. Thank you for that.
Sat May 30, 2020, 11:25 PM
May 2020

I'm somewhat younger than your dad. I first went to Europe in 1970, to England. By then, England was almost totally recovered from the war.

In 1980 I went to Europe with my brand new husband. By then almost all of the aftereffects of WWII were gone, although when we were in Poland we kept on being approached by people wanting to do illegal currency exchanges. On our very last night there, we took a chance. We were eating dinner in a nice restaurant in our hotel in Warsaw, and at the end of the evening we asked the waiter if we could possibly pay in dollars. All of a sudden, he understood English and offered us a very good exchange rate. Which we promptly took advantage of. A meal that might have cost $50.00, now was about $20.00. We felt very happy for this.

Rhiannon12866

(202,979 posts)
4. Thanks for sharing your experience! I had a similar one in the USSR!
Sat May 30, 2020, 11:41 PM
May 2020

I visited the USSR in late 1986 with my grandmother (father's mother) who was part of a peace group from NC which was making a first visit to their "sister town" high in the Caucasus Mountains. They were all senior citizens except for me and one lady about 10 years older than me, wonderful group and experienced travelers. I was allowed to join to make up the numbers.

And we encountered similar situations. We visited several major cities, there were places where they were still rebuilding from the war! They were hit especially hard. I was understandably anxious about it, but I went to please my grandmother, but I couldn't have been more wrong. When people heard us speaking English, they'd ask "Are you English?" and when we said we were American, they got all excited, wanted to engage in conversation (most spoke perfect English) and mostly wanted to know what we thought about what we'd seen. I did not encounter one hostile person at all.

We also met with several other peace groups and I still get choked up when I remember one older lady who had been a nurse during WWII. This was just before the summit in Reykjavík between Gorbachev and Reagan - and there were such hopes! This lady said "Please, when you go back, tell your president that we want peace!" I get choked up just remembering. And I mourn for those hopeful people now...

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,746 posts)
7. Thank you for your post.
Sun May 31, 2020, 12:10 AM
May 2020

I visited the USSR, as it was then, in 1976. At the time I was an airline employee, and this was an "interline tour", meaning one specifically for airline employees only. It was a wonderful world back then. My trip to the Soviet Union started in JFK. We flew from there to Helsinki, then spent the day sightseeing. That evening we were at the train station in Helsinki, where an inebriated Finn fell in love with me. Not to worry. We got on the train to Leningrad. When we arrived the next day we were supposed to go sightseeing, but we staged a small revolt, insisted we had to have the chance to at least change clothes.

So we got about a half hour at our hotel, then set off sightseeing.

The rest of the tour was amazing. I learned that if you're in the Soviet Union and you see a line of people, you should join it, because there's probably something worth purchasing at the end of the line. Oh, and the ice cream was phenomenal. And this was in the middle of winter, February.

Someday I'd love to take the Trans Siberian Railway from Vladivostok to Moscow. It's a very long journey, but I'm sure well worth it.

Oh, and my interline tour all those years ago cost $125.00. As I used to say, you can't afford to stay at home at those prices. Being an airline employee was just amazing back then.

Rhiannon12866

(202,979 posts)
8. Wow! That does sound amazing!
Sun May 31, 2020, 12:49 AM
May 2020

I have to say that I was scared witless when my grandmother asked me to go. I actually had a panic attack on the plane there (to Helsinki) and the kind Finnair flight attendant brought me up front, gave me oxygen and sat with me. I grew up believing that the Russians hated us, but nothing could have been further from the truth and the people we met couldn't have been more welcoming - and we saw the sights, too!

We went from Helsinki to Moscow, traveled to Sochi (where they held the recent Olympics) because it was the closest city to our "sister town" - Krasnaya Polyana (2 and 1/2 hours up in the Caucasus Mountains), visited Tbilisi, capital of then-Soviet Georgia (we were supposed to go to Kiev, but Chernobyl happened), and ended up in Leningrad which has to be one of the most beautiful and interesting cities in the world. We had spectacular guides, especially our Moscow guide who was with us for the entire trip and who really hit it off with our American guide, both women who spoke several languages. Our Russian guide was also the closest one to my age, LOL.

We saw everything, from Lenin's tomb and the Metro in Moscow, a 9th-century church and Petrodvorets! It really was the trip of a lifetime. And, as I said, everyone couldn't have been friendlier. All of my wonderful traveling companions are gone now, save the one younger woman. I got to know them well and we kept in touch for a long time. My grandmother even had a pen pal who she made friends with in our "sister town," an older lady, Maria, who was the official head of the Communist Party in that small town! We visited the school in that town and were met with bouquets of flowers by the children. And we visited an English class with pretty young kids, as I said, pretty much everyone spoke English. I cringe to think of what's happening there now, they deserve and hoped for so much better...

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
9. Thank you for that before and after pic, Rhiannon.
Sun May 31, 2020, 12:59 AM
May 2020

Those photos always fascinate me. I could look at them forever. It's so tragic to think about what was lost. The human life, of course, but also the history that has been erased. It's all just so sad.

Munich is a beautiful city now, but it would never be the same after the war. So many of those beautiful old, historic cities are gone, only to be replaced by modern replicas. The same for most of Europe. Not to say that I would have ever wanted Germany to win, but it always pains me to see history destroyed anywhere.

I hate war. I may be naive, but I don't see why we have to solve our problems with bombs and guns. Get the men who are responsible for the decisions into a ring and have them tear each other to bits and leave the rest of us alone.

Rhiannon12866

(202,979 posts)
10. I know exactly what you mean. The history in other countries boggles the mind
Sun May 31, 2020, 01:22 AM
May 2020

I've been to Ireland where people still live in houses built a few centuries ago and also what was then the USSR where we visited a 9th-century church! The Kremlin itself was built by Italian artisians in 1492! And so much was destroyed during the war. The Germans destroyed buildings and artworks that had nothing whatsoever to do with the war effort. I saw a painting of Peter the Great (1672-1725!) that was recovered, riddled with bullet holes. And Petrodvorets, his amazing "summer palace" in St. Petersburg, which was largely destroyed during the war and has taken decades to rebuild - from the original plans! There were photos displayed side-by-side - 1941 (which was the foundation and rubble) and present day. We have never had a world war on our soil, but the damage in other countries, and the effects on the people, has been devastating.

rickford66

(5,498 posts)
5. My Mother's distant cousin got trapped in Italy when WWII broke out.
Sat May 30, 2020, 11:42 PM
May 2020

He was visiting relatives and he and his father were forced to sit out the war there. He went to school and I guess his father had to eek out a living somehow since he wasn't legally allowed to work. He related this story years ago once so I don't have too many details. I wish I did.

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