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Biden wants a VP "not at all intimidated by the president, not intimidated walkin' in the WH" (Original Post) bigtree Jun 2020 OP
Sounds like Susan Rice. shockey80 Jun 2020 #1
I hope so. If we can't have Elizabeth Warren, Susan Rice would be awesome. So would Michelle Obama. BComplex Jun 2020 #2
No to Susan Rice...because of Benghazi...it would be foolish. A VP cnan't make you win but he/she Demsrule86 Jun 2020 #17
We need someone with a lot of charisma. Val Demmings doesn't have enough. BComplex Jun 2020 #19
You think Kamala Harris doesn't have a lot of charisma? StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #66
She turns a lot of people off. Sorry. BComplex Jun 2020 #94
Warren also "turns a lot of people off." StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #101
What did she do as Atty General that wasn't good? mcar Jun 2020 #104
Warren was way ahead of her in the primaries. BComplex Jun 2020 #114
Warren lost her own state mcar Jun 2020 #117
Kamala didn't even make it to her home state's primary. BComplex Jun 2020 #119
Then we don't know how she would have done, do we? mcar Jun 2020 #121
Um. Not making it tells you how far she can go. BComplex Jun 2020 #126
Biden completely flopped in the 2008 primaries StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #131
Oh yeah mcar Jun 2020 #133
You know what also turns a lot of people off? BannonsLiver Jun 2020 #127
Kamala Harris has boatloads of charisma mcar Jun 2020 #102
Remember when the knock against her was that she was supposedly just getting by on charisma? StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #105
I think you might be on to something mcar Jun 2020 #109
What might it have to do with? BComplex Jun 2020 #116
Yeah Let's do Benghazi again Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #29
Easy answer: KAMALA onetexan Jun 2020 #3
She's one. But there are others, too. marble falls Jun 2020 #6
I don't think there's a shrinking violet in the entire selection pool! Siwsan Jun 2020 #4
I agree. They are all women who are perfectly willing to call out BS... nt Blasphemer Jun 2020 #9
That's called name recognition Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #30
Another reason Mike Pence won't be on the list. marble falls Jun 2020 #5
:) Sounds like he's sending clues. Senators, governors, Hortensis Jun 2020 #7
Random pic. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #8
Is this before or after Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #31
1) She didn't accuse him of being a racist; 2) he got over their debate tussle. You should, too StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #67
She still attacked him Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #73
Lol. Let's make sure he picks someone whom the GOP won't criticize in an ad StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #79
No let's pick someone who the GOP can't Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #80
You think we should fold up our tent and go home? jmowreader Jun 2020 #85
No and don't put words in my mouth Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #87
Warren said on camera, that Biden may be "running in the wrong presidential primary." PunkinPi Jun 2020 #106
Which is why most nominees don't pick a former primary opponent Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #108
I was responding to this false statement you made. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #115
I don't consider Warren a viable candidate for VP Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #118
There's clearly an effort afoot to undermine Harris StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #122
Maybe that is the goal of some Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #123
Thank you! It's like the minute you don't support someone else's candidate 100% BComplex Jun 2020 #130
You're welcome Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #132
You're correct... PunkinPi Jun 2020 #129
Unleash the Kamala! fleur-de-lisa Jun 2020 #10
May be. :) I was surprised that she was weak on policy while running, Hortensis Jun 2020 #14
she was policy-heavy during her campaign bigtree Jun 2020 #20
We have many fine people for AG, but I strongly believe Hortensis Jun 2020 #22
the person you're describing bigtree Jun 2020 #23
Well Kamala was decisive in suspending her campaign in Dec 2019, so there's that .... OnDoutside Jun 2020 #26
no one is going to get their pet plan approved. Any health care advance will be a compromise bigtree Jun 2020 #34
Lifelong progressive liberal?? Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #33
THIS is a progressive prosecutor. bigtree Jun 2020 #36
a lot of the things we expect in a 'progressive' actually encompass Kamala Harris' career bigtree Jun 2020 #37
Typing something in all caps doesn't make it true Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #42
you actually cite that article by Bazelon that I mentioned in my post to make that judgment bigtree Jun 2020 #45
Which is probably why she's come under such attacks from Hortensis Jun 2020 #49
a lot of folks ignore that these issues weren't at the forefront of many political efforts bigtree Jun 2020 #52
:) Say THAT again! Very impressive. Hortensis Jun 2020 #54
That must be why she got such overwhelming support Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #51
we know Joe Biden, the second half of the first black president's administration bigtree Jun 2020 #53
Right. The campaign to deny that Senator Harris is a strong, liberal Hortensis Jun 2020 #55
And yet Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #56
this is the only article she linked or cited to support her claim bigtree Jun 2020 #57
Remember the goal is to win the election Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #61
when talking about African American support for the ticket bigtree Jun 2020 #71
Sounds about right Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #75
Had you seen this piece, where some of her most vocal critics have now changed their tune... PunkinPi Jun 2020 #64
interesting bigtree Jun 2020 #68
Apparently not, lol. nt PunkinPi Jun 2020 #69
PROSECUTORS carry out the laws that are passed by legislatures Hortensis Jun 2020 #46
Prosecutors also have discretion Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #62
Yes, they do. Understanding how she used hers over hundreds of Hortensis Jun 2020 #70
No it's understanding how Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #74
:) So, responsibility lies in adding imagining how other people Hortensis Jun 2020 #76
Yes Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #81
She's the 2nd most progressive senator PunkinPi Jun 2020 #60
Ok that's the last 4 years Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #63
I see bigtree provided you some links with that info, so I won't be redundant. nt PunkinPi Jun 2020 #65
And yet Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #72
African Americans overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris for VP bigtree Jun 2020 #77
Yes top of the list Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #82
but you represented her as some sort of pariah to black voters bigtree Jun 2020 #88
No I didn't Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #89
pariah bigtree Jun 2020 #95
Cite one post where I used the word pariah Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #96
my word, describing what you wrote bigtree Jun 2020 #97
Then you interpreted it wrong. Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #99
Sounds like someone just doesn't like Kamala StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #103
Not pulling anything out of thin air Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #112
Why do you assume I was referring to you? StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #120
So you weren't? Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #125
Yes, the goal is to win the election. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #78
Again she's at the top of list Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #83
Anyone and everyone in politics has some kind of baggage, lol. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #90
Maybe/maybe not Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #92
Harris, Klobuchar, and Warren were vetted in the primary. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #98
Were they? Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #100
LOL. "She's at the top of list View profile but not by a wide margin." StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #107
Yes Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #110
Wow. StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #111
So you can't dispute what I wrote Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #113
Someone with executive experience already, elleng Jun 2020 #11
Warren, Harris, Abrams, Rice... None are intimidated with Trump. Women seem the LEAST intimidated LizBeth Jun 2020 #12
BIDEN/HARRIS 2020! MrsCoffee Jun 2020 #13
I agree with Harris edhopper Jun 2020 #15
Experience doesn't matter in presidential elections Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #32
Yes it does edhopper Jun 2020 #40
If it did Trump wouldn't be President Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #41
Trump is sui generis edhopper Jun 2020 #44
W had less experience than Gore Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #50
You are missing the point edhopper Jun 2020 #84
No you are Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #86
Tell that to President Obama and Biden... PunkinPi Jun 2020 #91
That's what all nominees say Trumpocalypse Jun 2020 #93
Biden/Harris 2020! PunkinPi Jun 2020 #16
better together bigtree Jun 2020 #21
Absolutely. :) nt PunkinPi Jun 2020 #28
Yes! Yes! Yes! RedSpartan Jun 2020 #128
Biden/Harris bluecollar2 Jun 2020 #18
Works for me. Brother Buzz Jun 2020 #24
That does sound like Harris. I remember Obama gave some description of the VP he wanted JI7 Jun 2020 #25
sounds like any of the women Skittles Jun 2020 #27
That doesn't reduce any of the "lists" I have seen. ALL are strong, capable people. retread Jun 2020 #35
Was that picture before or after she insinuated he was a racist? helpisontheway Jun 2020 #38
she wasn't alone in her concern about Joe Biden's past on issues endemic to the black community bigtree Jun 2020 #39
I'm right there with you future president Biden nt Sunsky Jun 2020 #43
Sounds like Val Demmings Aviation91 Jun 2020 #47
I thought of Rep. Demmings bigtree Jun 2020 #48
Yes, and Val Demmings would help the ticket by delivering a decisive victory in Florida Brother Buzz Jun 2020 #59
Hmm, who does that sound like? mcar Jun 2020 #58
Kamala Harris would be awesome. n/t Jamastiene Jun 2020 #124
I have my preferences, not getting into this again, but I would remind those who just KNOW DFW Jun 2020 #134
... mcar Jun 2020 #135

BComplex

(7,982 posts)
2. I hope so. If we can't have Elizabeth Warren, Susan Rice would be awesome. So would Michelle Obama.
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:23 PM
Jun 2020

But I'm afraid nobody can talk her into that.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
17. No to Susan Rice...because of Benghazi...it would be foolish. A VP cnan't make you win but he/she
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:52 PM
Jun 2020

can help you lose. I know Rice is great but not this year. And we need to take a state. Val Demmings is great.

BComplex

(7,982 posts)
19. We need someone with a lot of charisma. Val Demmings doesn't have enough.
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 03:24 PM
Jun 2020

Neither does Kamala Harris. We need someone people fall in love with.

We need someone, preferably a woman, since Biden already committed to that, who is absolutely awesome. That's why I want Elizabeth Warren...a lot of people fell in love with her during the primaries. She's charismatic and dynamic.

We really have to steer clear of a boring ticket, too.

BComplex

(7,982 posts)
94. She turns a lot of people off. Sorry.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:48 PM
Jun 2020

There are a lot of good things about her, but there are some that aren't so good, as well. She did some things as Atty. General that were not good, and at the time, DU was all over it, and upset with her. She hasn't got the charisma that we need to make people fall in love, and whoever Biden chooses as VP is probably going to end up being president before his 4 years are up. As president, she wouldn't get the support that Elizabeth Warren would get.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
101. Warren also "turns a lot of people off."
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:06 PM
Jun 2020

So does Klobuchar. So does Bernie. So does Buttigieg. So did Hillary. So did Obama.

And so does Biden, for that matter.

mcar

(42,210 posts)
104. What did she do as Atty General that wasn't good?
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:08 PM
Jun 2020

And how do you figure this:

As president, she wouldn't get the support that Elizabeth Warren would get.

BComplex

(7,982 posts)
126. Um. Not making it tells you how far she can go.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:58 PM
Jun 2020

Tells you she didn't do well enough to make it.

I can see she must be your favorite female candidate for VP. That's fine. Like I said, she has some good points. But if this whole country has to vote on a woman for president, and especially a black woman, Michelle Obama would win in a landslide. (Lots and lots of charisma...easy to fall in love with.)
Kamala Harris would not have that kind of following.

In 1976, when Barbara Jordan gave the keynote address at the Democratic convention, I was really pissed that she was not our candidate. She was awesome. But back then there was way too much prejudice, against women and African Americans. When Barbara Jordon spoke, she owned the room (or the tv screen, in this case).

These days we need someone who is really high on commanding the love of the masses to take control of the moment that has opened up to get rid of the republican way of thinking. Biden is safe for the moment, even though he's pretty boring and keeps shooting himself in the foot with some things he says. He's safe and comfortable, when the country is in an uproar and in the middle of a pandemic and a recession. But I think Biden is going to step down before his first term is up, and the woman who is moved to the top of the ticket is going to have to rally a whole shitload of independent, very critical, voters in order to be elected at the top of the ticket as the First Woman ever elected president of the USA.

Even though I didn't like some of her positions as California Atty. General, if she was the VP under Biden and moved up, I would of course support her. I just wish it was someone that could create a groundswell and movement.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
131. Biden completely flopped in the 2008 primaries
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 04:46 PM
Jun 2020

But that didn't stop him from being a strong running mate and an excellent Vice President ...

BannonsLiver

(16,161 posts)
127. You know what also turns a lot of people off?
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 04:12 PM
Jun 2020

Willfully handing a senate seat to the GOP in a year that we might actually be able to take back the senate. That reason alone all but dooms Warren’s chances. Feel free to bookmark.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
105. Remember when the knock against her was that she was supposedly just getting by on charisma?
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:10 PM
Jun 2020

And some of the same people who made that claim then are now saying she doesn't have any charisma.

I'm starting to think that some people's problem with Kamala has nothing to do with her charisma at all

Siwsan

(26,177 posts)
4. I don't think there's a shrinking violet in the entire selection pool!
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:24 PM
Jun 2020

I admit that Kamala and Elizabeth were the first to come to mind.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
7. :) Sounds like he's sending clues. Senators, governors,
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:30 PM
Jun 2020

perhaps other strong executive branch/administrative experience in. Those who haven't run a whole state or have strong DC experience not.

Maybe someone like Elizabeth Warren if he wanted a 21st century Frances Perkins to spearhead many of the big domestic repairs and advances needed. Someone like Susan Rice if he wanted his VEEP handling much of the similarly fucked-up national security/foreign policy side. Reportedly in spite of discussing VP, insiders still see Rice as more likely for something like sec state or defense, though.

I'm wondering if he might choose to handle more of the foreign policy himself, stabilizing and restoring some of our standing on the planet, while he gave a heavy domestic agenda to a Klobuchar to make happen.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
79. Lol. Let's make sure he picks someone whom the GOP won't criticize in an ad
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:02 PM
Jun 2020

People are going to criticize any candidate he picks. Some people may even lie about them and accuse them of saying things they didn't say.

jmowreader

(50,451 posts)
85. You think we should fold up our tent and go home?
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:23 PM
Jun 2020

There is not one Democrat in America the GOP can’t figure out how to attack Biden with. It’s all they do, since they have no interest in governing.

The woman we run alongside VP Biden needs two things: high level political experience, ant the ability and skill set to detrumpify America. Aside from that, I don’t care. She can be any combination of race, orientation, ethnicity...if she can unfuck this country after what Trump did to it, I will be happy.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
87. No and don't put words in my mouth
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:27 PM
Jun 2020

None of the other possible VP picks have attacked Biden on national television. Harris did. That is a GOP ad that writes itself.

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
106. Warren said on camera, that Biden may be "running in the wrong presidential primary."
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:10 PM
Jun 2020

That's what happens in primaries.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
108. Which is why most nominees don't pick a former primary opponent
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:14 PM
Jun 2020

as their VP. And is Warren even in the running anymore?

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
115. I was responding to this false statement you made.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:21 PM
Jun 2020
None of the other possible VP picks have attacked Biden on national television. Harris did.


We're done here, have a great day.
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
122. There's clearly an effort afoot to undermine Harris
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:44 PM
Jun 2020

It wouldn't be the first time. It's not even subtle.

And it probably won't be effective, either. Biden's going to pick whom he wants as his running mate. And if he wants Kamala, a bunch of snarking and mischaracterizing and whining about her online isn't going to stop him.

But the goal isn't just to kneecap Harris. It's also to stir up shish between Dems.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
123. Maybe that is the goal of some
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:47 PM
Jun 2020

But there are legitimate concerns about all the possible VP choices. Nothing wrong with bringing them up.

BComplex

(7,982 posts)
130. Thank you! It's like the minute you don't support someone else's candidate 100%
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 04:29 PM
Jun 2020

you're, like, playing for the other side or something! Geeez!

Same thing happened in the primaries! If you didn't support Joe Biden you were ganged up on, hounded, slammed, banned from DU, etc.

Now it's going to be Kamala Harris.

Open wide, because they're going to shove her down our throats! That always makes you feel the love, doesn't it?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
132. You're welcome
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 04:48 PM
Jun 2020

And for the record there are positives and negatives to all the potential VP picks. We ignore them at our own peril.

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
129. You're correct...
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 04:22 PM
Jun 2020

As a Kamala supporter in the primaries, it's the same as it ever was. I have no doubt Biden will pick the best fit for him and his agenda, and it won't be decided by randos on the Internet.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. May be. :) I was surprised that she was weak on policy while running,
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:31 PM
Jun 2020

but she's a lifelong progressive liberal, and as VP focusing on working with congress and carrying out the agenda she agreed to that would soon be fixed. And she seems like a natural complement to Biden in a number of ways.

Remembering that Obama wanted CA's AG for USAG in 2008, but she turned it down, more focused on higher office, like the senate and beyond. We're still going to need a strong AG to right what the Republicans have broken and made very wrong, though, a rare opportunity to serve.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
20. she was policy-heavy during her campaign
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 07:18 PM
Jun 2020

...virtually none of that got covered by the press.

One of the most comnprehensive, solution-oriented campaigns I've ever witnessed. I posted reams of policy documents here.

The AG has been so politicized by this WH that a career prosecutor at Justice who's NOT a politician would serve the country better.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. We have many fine people for AG, but I strongly believe
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 08:47 PM
Jun 2020

that the Trump/Republican administration corruption and law-smashing should not define ANY office once they're gone. Complete rejection and return to the long-established purposes and integrity. We believe in it and know how to do it, and it's above all what we have to bring to government.

I felt she was wobbly on some of her positions where I expected to see the commitment of strong belief in their excellence. The kind Hillary had from intensive planning before she ran. Sen. Harris got in trouble for it, particularly with her softness on which healthcare program. But, if she wasn't ready to hit the ground running as #1, as #2 to #1 with large teams of expert movers and shakers I imagine she'd soon be a strong, capable leader.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
23. the person you're describing
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:41 AM
Jun 2020

...is unknown to me.

It's certainly not the candidate, AG, or senator that I've watched closely for many years. I can accept perceptions based on what's offered and seen, but you should understand, Kamala Harris is anything but 'wobbly.'

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
26. Well Kamala was decisive in suspending her campaign in Dec 2019, so there's that ....
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:55 AM
Jun 2020

Seriously, she started in a blaze of a 20,000+ crowd at her candidacy announcement and fizzled out from there. She and Warren jumped on Bernie's Medicare for All, saying they'd do the same, and then almost immediately regretted doing so, not least having to backtrack on the pledge to cut private healthcare companies out, as part of M4A.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
34. no one is going to get their pet plan approved. Any health care advance will be a compromise
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 07:28 AM
Jun 2020

...putting ideas into the political arena is what primaries are all about, and certainly no one expects their plans to arrive for signing in the Oval Office without going through the congressional wringer first. Indeed, Barack Obama saw his health care initiatives altered by political realities after he was elected, as well.

You must have noticed, EVERY campaign other than Joe Biden's 'fizzled,' but everyone could see for themselves that Harris generated excitement and energy on the campaign trail which would carry well into the fall election.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
33. Lifelong progressive liberal??
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 07:12 AM
Jun 2020

Actually not. She was far more conservative during her days as a prosecutor and resisted many needed reforms.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
36. THIS is a progressive prosecutor.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 07:35 AM
Jun 2020

from the Advocate:



Kamala Harris Single-Handedly Changed the Course of LGBTQ History

Harris is now a freshman U.S. senator and one of the front-runners for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination. Her 2010 squeaker victory not only changed the trajectory of her life, but that of millions of LGB Californians. One of the signature issues Harris campaigned on in 2010 was her opposition to Proposition 8, the infamous voter-approved state constitutional amendment that snatched marriage rights away from California's same-sex couples. Cooley was a proponent of Prop. 8 and promised to defend it against the numerous individuals and equality organizations suing to kill it.

Harris, along with then-incoming governor Jerry Brown, refused to defend the initiative, which was ruled unconstitutional by U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker in August of that year.

“It would be inappropriate for a state on the verge of bankruptcy to use all of those resources to defend a law found to be unconstitutional,” Harris told The Advocate in September 2010.

Even with Harris and Brown (and Arnold Schwarzenegger before him) refusing to stand by Prop. 8, marriage equality opponents were undeterred. The individuals behind ProtectMarriage.com — the group that placed Prop. 8 on the 2008 ballot — appealed Walker's decision to the Ninth Circuit, which upheld his ruling. Then the antigay group tried to get that appeal looked at by a larger group of Ninth Circuit judges, but that was denied. Next up was the Supreme Court.

"What I would love to see is the highest court in the land ultimately make a decision, and the right decision," Harris told The Advocate in June 2012. "That would be to find that Prop. 8 is a violation of equal protection under the Constitution, and to stop denying LGBT people the right to marry."

The Supreme Court decided in late 2012 to take the case, now called Hollingsworth v. Perry. Instead of an attorney general arguing for the voter-approved initiative, a motley crew of homophobes tried to convince the high court that Judge Walker's decision harmed them. The court, in a 5-4 ruling issued in June 2013, disagreed, saying the Prop. 8 proponents lacked standing in the case and should not have been allowed to appeal Walker's decision.

Equality California executive director Rick Zbur sees Harris's win as monumental for California's LGBTQ citizens.

"Senator Harris is a tried-and-true ally to the LGBTQ community, and she has been an effective advocate for civil rights and social justice throughout her career," Zbur tells The Advocate. "It's hard to overstate the impact that her 2010 victory had on the fight for marriage equality. If she hadn't won and Steve Cooley had been given a chance to defend Proposition 8 — mooting the issue of standing — there's a very real possibility that the Supreme Court would have overturned Judge Walker's ruling and delayed the freedom to marry for millions of Californians by at least another two years. I think if you were to ask the couples who married in the weeks and months following the Supreme Court's decision, they'd agree that Kamala's principled stand made all the difference."


Vox:

...as DA from 2004 to 2011, Harris opposed both Proposition 22 and Proposition 8, which limited marriage to one man and one woman. Though they passed in 2000 and 2008, respectively, both were struck down while she was in office. As San Francisco DA, Harris also created a Hate Crimes Unit aimed at prosecuting hate crimes committed against LGBTQ teens in school.

Harris’s early support of marriage equality in California directly laid the legal groundwork for the US Supreme Court’s decision in 2012 that same-sex couples have the right to marry. The Court cited California’s success in striking down Prop 8 in its opinion. Within hours of the decision, plaintiffs to the Supreme Court case Kris Perry and Sandy Stier became the first gay couple to wed in San Francisco, and Harris officiated their wedding.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/16/15808396/kamala-harris-democrat-rising-star-interrupted


Progressive prosecutors do things like this.


Watch Kamala Help a Couple on the Edge of History:

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
37. a lot of the things we expect in a 'progressive' actually encompass Kamala Harris' career
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 07:43 AM
Jun 2020

...those efforts are obscured by a inaccurate slogan borrowed from ONE false and flawed article, but I guess that's the point in the attack.

It's designed to not only draw a wedge between Kamala and the black community, her most reliable allies, but it's also used by people who never believed in criminal justice reform to discredit progressive criminal justice initiatives and programs, preventing this perfect advocate from making any impact, politically, or with Sen. Harris' myriad policies that seek to undo decades of injustice and abuses.

A blogger who goes by the name of 'BlackWomanViews' has taken the time to compile a list of 50 things Kamala Harris did as prosecutor, DA, AG, and Senator to advance the issue of reform of our legal and criminal system of justice.




This list was mostly ignored here, even though the issue of her service as the senior law enforcement official in California was used extensively here to claim that Kamala Harris isn't a 'progressive prosecutor.' As I wrote, those charges were almost exclusively taken from one dubious article, and pretty much all the rest refer back to that false trope.

No one can credibly look at this amazing list of accomplishments and initiatives and conclude anything other that Kamala Harris has been focusing like a laser on reforming the criminal system that she oversaw and regulated. Indeed, NO OTHER CANDIDATE HAS A RECORD OF SUCCESS IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM THAT COMES CLOSE TO KAMALA HARRIS.

By no means were her efforts perfect or inviolable, startup programs come with all sorts of stops and starts, and setbacks, but Kamala Harris stepped up to try and make a difference and be counted.

So, here are the reciepts (brilliantly provided by BlackWomanViews) which show an unflagging dedication to criminal justice, as well as reform of a system in which black Americans and other people of color disproportionately find themselves targeted by police and dealt with more severely by courts.
 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
42. Typing something in all caps doesn't make it true
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 09:00 AM
Jun 2020

And there are multiple points of view on this.

The biggest danger to Harris’ candidacy may come from progressives who increasingly hold sway in the Democratic primary. A blistering New York Times op-ed written by a law professor at the University of San Francisco provides a taste of what’s to come.

“Time after time, when progressives urged her to embrace criminal justice reforms as a district attorney and then the state’s attorney general, Ms. Harris opposed them or stayed silent,” wrote Lara Bazelon. “Most troubling, Ms. Harris fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions that had been secured through official misconduct that included evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of crucial information by prosecutors.”


The essay alleges that Harris remained on the sidelines — or on the wrong side — of justice issues under her authority. It says she ducked out of crucial debates over sentencing reform and that her office pressed for harsh punishment in cases that merited leniency.

Read more here: https://www.sanluisobispo.com/opinion/editorials/article224881575.html#storylink=cpy


Here is another article on the subject: https://theappeal.org/kamala-harris-criminal-justice-record-killed-her-presidential-run/

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
45. you actually cite that article by Bazelon that I mentioned in my post to make that judgment
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 09:15 AM
Jun 2020

...which is simply a false and incomplete record of Kamala Harris' efforts and achievements.

But I provided the receipts (which you promptly ignored), so I'll let her record (as it's been outlined) speak for itself.

Btw, None of the other candidates this year has a record anywhere close to the efforts and accomplishments of Kamala Harris in the area of criminal and social justice. If you had something to refute that, I'd think you would have posted those efforts and accomplishments of the others, not just repeat primary campaign prattle.

Read the list.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
49. Which is probably why she's come under such attacks from
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:05 AM
Jun 2020

both the right and the far left. The right know exactly what they're doing in trying to take her out.

In contrast, the dissident left never seem to understand or count the harm they do to the goals they claim by attacking people who share those goals but don't wear their label. If they could get elected themselves they would, but that seldom happens. That leaves sabotaging Democrats who can, like this dishonest author manufacturing the necessary excuses for it.

And of course, Senator Harris is also female, so those excuses include that she failed to meet the special standard hostiles on both sides create to take women out.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
52. a lot of folks ignore that these issues weren't at the forefront of many political efforts
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:19 AM
Jun 2020

...yet Harris, as California's first black female Attorney General, was first in the nation on many of her criminal justice initiatives.

also:

1st female district attorney of San Francisco

1st black, Indian-American woman to be elected attorney general in CA

2nd black woman & first Indian woman elected to the U.S. Senate

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
54. :) Say THAT again! Very impressive.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:37 AM
Jun 2020

She's female, though, as are all those we're discussing, and most black female leaders have felt misogyny was often a bigger problem than race.

Still battling for equality on many fronts. We're finally going to elect our first female VP, though.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
51. That must be why she got such overwhelming support
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:16 AM
Jun 2020

from progressives and African Americans during the primaries. Oh right she didn’t.

There is perception and reality. Sometimes they are close, sometimes they are far apart. Regardless of the reality, never ignore the public’s perception of a candidate. We did that 4 years ago.

Unfortunately, the perception of Harris is that she wasn’t that progressive as a prosecutor. Whether that is fair or unfair. Add to that she’s from a reliable Democratic state and put any swing in play, there are just better choices for the VP spot on the ticket.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
53. we know Joe Biden, the second half of the first black president's administration
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:27 AM
Jun 2020

...proved a more popular choice for Democratic voters.

Kamala fell to the wayside, as ALL of the others eventually did, in favor of the more well-known candidate.

Most observers attributed this to the political climate which seeks a sure end to Trump's presidency, with voters choosing a proven winner in a presidential contest over relative unknowns. It would be ludicrous to equate support in the primary of the ultimate front-runner to any other candidate's record, so why does Harris deserve that charge?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
55. Right. The campaign to deny that Senator Harris is a strong, liberal
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 11:07 AM
Jun 2020

progressive Democrat may have cost her a percentage point or so during those months of struggle in the second tier, but that'd be pretty much all -- and the same for all of them for the reasons you list. From long before it all started, one candidate was always far ahead.

At this point I don't see why anyone would have a problem with her instead of others. The white male president will ultimately decide on his administration's agenda, and his assistant president will be a strong, liberal, progressive, female Democrat -- all of the VP possibilities being figures straight from the nightmares of the irrational right.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
56. And yet
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 11:07 AM
Jun 2020
Harris’ record as a prosecutor — which she pitched as a strength in a potential matchup with Donald Trump in the general election, but swung back and forth between emphasizing and deemphasizing as her campaign went on — also bothered some black voters, especially black men.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
57. this is the only article she linked or cited to support her claim
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 11:15 AM
Jun 2020
'Rap legend ripped Kamala’s marriage to a white man. Then she won him over'
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/03/kamala-harris-luther-campbell-2020-1479890



This black man (me) is 'bothered' by the continued effort to detract from and obscure Kamala Harris' actual record of addressing these issues endemic to the black community; efforts which presented concrete solutions, some of which were used as national models by the federal government.
 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
61. Remember the goal is to win the election
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 12:35 PM
Jun 2020

With the strongest possible candidates. Whether it is fair or not, progressives and some African Americans have issues with Harris. Plus she doesn’t help in any swing states. There are other candidates who do and don’t have her baggage.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
71. when talking about African American support for the ticket
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:07 PM
Jun 2020

...here's the data:

African-Americans say they will be more enthusiastic about voting for Joe Biden if he selects an African-American woman as his running mate for vice president, according to a new survey conducted by Northwestern University’s Center for the Study of Diversity and Democracy (CSDD) (June 9).

The survey, conducted by Cloud Research/Prime Panels on behalf of the CSDD, showed that California Sen. Kamala Harris and former Georgia legislator Stacey Abrams are seen as favorites for the nomination.

Among the findings:

57% of the respondents said that they would be more enthusiastic about voting for Biden if he picks an African-American woman to be his running mate.

29% of the respondents prefer Harris for Biden’s running mate; 28% prefer Abrams; 24% prefer former national security advisor Susan Rice, and 20% prefer U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Florida

59% of the African-American women who responded to the survey said that they would be more enthusiastic about voting for Biden if he picks an African-American woman to be his running mate.

50% of African-American women respondents said that they are more likely to campaign for Biden if he selects an African-American woman versus 40% who said that they will campaign for him regardless of the outcome of the vice presidential search process.


https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2020/06/poll-black-woman-running-mate-favored-for-vice-president-biden/
 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
75. Sounds about right
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:38 PM
Jun 2020

He should have an African American woman on the ticket. And there are several great choices as the poll shows.

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
64. Had you seen this piece, where some of her most vocal critics have now changed their tune...
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 12:44 PM
Jun 2020

here are some snips; source below.

Laura Bazelon:

The scathing critique by Lara Bazelon was followed by months of criticism of Harris’ career as a district attorney and state attorney general, thwarting her efforts to win over reform-minded liberals.

But with Harris emerging as a top contender for vice president, Bazelon isn't particularly worried. She now views Harris' law enforcement record as a "net neutral" for the senator.

“I don’t think there’s the interest or the oxygen to relitigate it,” Bazelon said in an interview. “She’s positioned herself in the last couple of years as someone who really is on the right side of these issues and that carries weight.”


Shaun King:
“I have been a frequent critic of her because of some of her past work … but she was brilliant,” Shaun King, the activist and former prominent Bernie Sanders supporter, told POLITICO after watching her recently on MSNBC. “It wasn’t canned, either. It was real. Her thoughts on the George Floyd case, how it should be handled, what the [Justice Department] could do, etc., was ... one of the best of any elected officials.

“It made me much more comfortable with her as a potential VP pick," King added.


DeRay Mckesson:
DeRay Mckesson, the activist, podcaster and co-founder of the police reform group Campaign Zero, met with Harris during her presidential run. In public, he said, Harris was unable to explain her past criminal justice positions in the way she was able to articulate them in person. He pointed to her long-standing refusal until last spring to support independent investigations into police shootings and cases of alleged brutality by law enforcement officials.

Early in her career, Harris refused to seek the death penalty for a member of a gang who shot and killed a San Francisco police officer, prompting calls for the case to be taken from her. She reasoned that getting rid of prosecutorial discretion would threaten district attorneys like herself.

“We went in the room prepared and engaged, and she was engaged and prepared and she pushed, and we pushed, and she was able to explain everything in a way that made sense even if you didn’t agree with it fully,” Mckesson said.

“She’s clearly an expert on criminal justice,” he added. “The question is does she have big ideas to be able to undo some of the things we all know are creating harm in communities?”


Rashad Robinson:
“I observed someone who took a lot of rightful incoming, but spent time listening and hearing from folks about the progressive movement for reform,” said Color of Change President Rashad Robinson. “People are in a place right now where they recognize the failures of the incremental steps for reform that have been put on the table over the years. People are making very big and serious demands that get to the problem. And we need elected officials that will meet us there.”

Asked whether Harris is one of those officials, Robinson suggested she was on her way.

“I know she is willing to be in that conversation,” he said last week, before abruptly excusing himself to take a call from the senator's office.


source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/kamala-harris-biden-criminal-justice-reform-304534

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
46. PROSECUTORS carry out the laws that are passed by legislatures
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 09:55 AM
Jun 2020

and signed by governors and presidents that are not reversed by courts. We also have to remember it's also an intensely political environment, with damned near every official across the spectrum having run on law and order issues. Of course her record as a prosecutor of CA law is more conservative than her own as a U.S. legislator.

The comparison that should be made is not between prosecutors and what civil rights activists (without any of the many constraints on prosecutors) call for but between prosecutors themselves to compare how they do their jobs in similar situations and to compare the ideology and goals they try to apply in the real world. Of course she did NOT "resist many needed reforms" because she was against needed reforms.

As for her record as a senator, since our liberal senators are elected by and represent whole states, and because their colleagues also represent whole states, they must present themselves relatively more conservatively than they may be personally and accept that what they collectively pass into law will also usually be.

We really need as many prosecutors as possible to be progressive and at least fairly liberal, so it's kind of important to not punish those who take their ideals to that arena by misunderstanding and trying to turn it into a career graveyard.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
62. Prosecutors also have discretion
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 12:37 PM
Jun 2020

But the goal is to win the election and there are other VP candidates available who don’t have Harris’ baggage.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
70. Yes, they do. Understanding how she used hers over hundreds of
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:00 PM
Jun 2020

incidences -- instead of soaking up the selected "missing emails" and "Benghazi" versions of Harris's history delivered daily to everyone identified as vulnerable -- would take a great deal of time and still leave us to form opinions based on very inadequate information. Wouldn't it be better to learn how she'd wish to exercise discretion because of the kind of person she is and has proven herself to be overall?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
74. No it's understanding how
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:35 PM
Jun 2020

she is perceived by segments of the electorate whether fairly or unfairly.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
76. :) So, responsibility lies in adding imagining how other people
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:52 PM
Jun 2020

are influenced to the pile of misperceptions already inculcated? Well, if it does, no need to put ourselves out. We can always depend on propagandists to take advantage of opportunity.

Have a nice afternoon.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
72. And yet
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:31 PM
Jun 2020

There are many progressives and African Americans who have issues with her record. That might be unfair but it is the reality of the situation. The goal is to win the election so things like this need to be considered.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
77. African Americans overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris for VP
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:52 PM
Jun 2020

Your first claim about black men not supporting her was linked in a Politico report to an article citing a rapper upset about her interracial marriage -- who had recanted. Not exactly what you claimed about black male support.

Secondly, the June 9 study above, polling 2000 black voters about the 2020 election finds Harris at the top of the list, with a majority saying a black VP is critical to their vote.




 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
82. Yes top of the list
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:14 PM
Jun 2020

but not by a wide margin. What that study found is that there are several African American women who are viable candidates.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
88. but you represented her as some sort of pariah to black voters
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:29 PM
Jun 2020

...a miserable distortion of the facts.

And ZERO evidence presented that 'progressives' oppose her in any measurable or significant numbers, as you insinuate.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
95. pariah
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:49 PM
Jun 2020

...definition:

A person who is rejected (from society or home)


You most certainly did claim this in repeated posts.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
97. my word, describing what you wrote
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:52 PM
Jun 2020

..that's the way this discussion thing works.

You write, I interpret for myself what you are saying.

You take care, now.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
99. Then you interpreted it wrong.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:02 PM
Jun 2020

What I did say was:

There are many progressives and African Americans who have issues with her record. That might be unfair but it is the reality of the situation. The goal is to win the election so things like this need to be considered.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13579628



And I will note that I used the word many not all or even most.
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
103. Sounds like someone just doesn't like Kamala
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:08 PM
Jun 2020

And if the facts don't back up that disdain, they just pull stuff out of thin air.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
112. Not pulling anything out of thin air
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:19 PM
Jun 2020

These are legitimate concerns. Will she put any swing states in play? What will her affect be on both progressive and African American turnout since some do seem to have an issue with her record, whether fairly or unfairly?

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
78. Yes, the goal is to win the election.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 01:53 PM
Jun 2020

And if you see my post #64, you will see how some of her critics have begun to back away from their initial statements about her.

Kamala Harris’ Record as California Attorney General

Debunking The Lies, Smears, and Distortions about Kamala Harris

And Harris is currently the top choice among Black voters for VP, the second choice is Abrams, but apparently she hasn't been contacted to be vetted by the Biden campaign, at least not yet.

Poll: Black woman running mate favored for Vice President Biden

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
83. Again she's at the top of list
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:18 PM
Jun 2020

but not by a wide margin. There are other choices who don’t have her baggage, whether fair or unfair, and may put a swing state in play as well.

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
90. Anyone and everyone in politics has some kind of baggage, lol.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:32 PM
Jun 2020

And her "baggage" is no worse than others who are being considered to be VP, but she HAS been vetted already.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
92. Maybe/maybe not
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:39 PM
Jun 2020

That remains to be seen. And how has anyone other than Biden been vetted? Also, will she put a swing state in play?

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
98. Harris, Klobuchar, and Warren were vetted in the primary.
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:00 PM
Jun 2020

At this point it probably won't be Warren, and even less likely, Klobuchar.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
107. LOL. "She's at the top of list View profile but not by a wide margin."
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:14 PM
Jun 2020

Do you actually read what you write before you hit "post"?

elleng

(130,133 posts)
11. Someone with executive experience already,
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:55 PM
Jun 2020

as there will be MUCH to execute.

No shrinking violets among the lists we're familiar with.

LizBeth

(9,946 posts)
12. Warren, Harris, Abrams, Rice... None are intimidated with Trump. Women seem the LEAST intimidated
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:14 PM
Jun 2020

by that piece of shit, vile man.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
15. I agree with Harris
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:36 PM
Jun 2020

I like Abrams a lot, but her resume is not strong enough for the VP slot.

Maybe if she could deliver Georgia to Biden. But with Kemp there I fear Biden would lose even if he wins.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
40. Yes it does
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 08:39 AM
Jun 2020

the voters have to see the VP choice as a viable President.

And yes Abrams is viable to us, but we are trying to reach swing voters.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
41. If it did Trump wouldn't be President
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 08:50 AM
Jun 2020

Obama would have lost to McCain.

Experience doesn’t matter. Never has.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
44. Trump is sui generis
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 09:12 AM
Jun 2020

and he actually lost.

Obama was a Senator. You want to think I am saying it is the "most important" issue. Which I clearly am not. But it is an issue when the person has no national or State wide office.

Abrams was a State Representative. She should have been Governor, but was Kemped.

I am sure we will continue to disagree on this.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
50. W had less experience than Gore
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:08 AM
Jun 2020

Clinton had less experience than Bush.
Kennedy less than Nixon.
Lincoln less than Douglas.
Experience doesn’t matter. It never has.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
86. No you are
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:24 PM
Jun 2020

Experience doesn’t matter and never has in elections. People vote with their hearts not their heads.

PunkinPi

(4,870 posts)
91. Tell that to President Obama and Biden...
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 02:37 PM
Jun 2020
Speaking to over 70 Georgia donors on a fundraising call, Biden said he and Obama recently agreed that his vice presidential nominee must have the political experience to step in as president if he were unable to serve.

source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-has-talked-obama-about-possible-vice-presidential-pick-n1166231

bluecollar2

(3,622 posts)
18. Biden/Harris
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 02:05 PM
Jun 2020

Warren at Treasury

Still undecided about A.G. I was really impressed by Sally Yates.

It's going to take the first four years to clean up the wreckage left by this current oligarchy.

JI7

(89,174 posts)
25. That does sound like Harris. I remember Obama gave some description of the VP he wanted
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 03:42 AM
Jun 2020

and I knew it was going to be Joe Biden at the time.

In this case it makes me think of Harris.

helpisontheway

(5,004 posts)
38. Was that picture before or after she insinuated he was a racist?
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 07:46 AM
Jun 2020

I want Biden to have a VP that will be loyal to him. I want him to have the type of VP that Obama had. I understand it was a debate but she took it too far. It was especially low because she was close to his son that died. He might look past it if it’s what is best for the country. I would have trouble with a VP that directly questioned my character.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
39. she wasn't alone in her concern about Joe Biden's past on issues endemic to the black community
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 08:04 AM
Jun 2020

...but she clearly stated she didn't believe Biden was a racist.



I wonder, after the week we just had, if the country is really ready to take black Americans' perceptions of injustice and bigotry at face value, or are critics still determined to speak over them?

Anyway, here's Biden and Harris yesterday:




There were no mentions of the running mate topic during the nearly hour-long event, which included a carefully planned question-and-answer session. But Biden and Harris called each other by their first names, and Biden mentioned that “we talk a lot.”

“I believe he is the right person at the right time to lead our country through the crises that we face. He has our best interests at heart,” Harris, a California senator and former opponent of Biden’s in the 2020 Democratic primaries, said as she introduced him.

“She’s been a fighter and a principled leader and I know because I’ve seen her up close and I’ve seen her in the trenches,” Biden said of Harris.

“I’ve seen her heart,” he said, recalling a moment, photographed by a Harris aide, in late 2018 when she saw him on the street and jumped out of a car to tell him, “I love you and I love Beau.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-09/biden-fundraiser-with-kamala-harris-nets-3-5-million

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
48. I thought of Rep. Demmings
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 10:05 AM
Jun 2020

...another tireless and innovative legislator with a record of fighting for the people.

Brother Buzz

(36,213 posts)
59. Yes, and Val Demmings would help the ticket by delivering a decisive victory in Florida
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 11:56 AM
Jun 2020

Kamala Harris' California is already in the bag.

DFW

(54,051 posts)
134. I have my preferences, not getting into this again, but I would remind those who just KNOW
Thu Jun 11, 2020, 05:51 PM
Jun 2020

Obama wisely waited until just before the 2008 convention to announce his VP pick, and most people who were just SURE they knew who it was were wrong.

By sheer chance (and some carelessness on the part of two of Biden's Senate staff), I found out it was Biden in the early morning of the day of the announcement, which wasn't made public until the late afternoon. I leaked it on DU in the morning, and got roundly trashed for it. I let the board in on the choice of Biden before any of the media knew, and all I got was abuse.

Because it involved a family member (and I didn't want to get Biden's staffers in trouble in case someone read DU), I said up front that I couldn't say HOW I knew, just that I did. THAT really unleashed the tide of fury.

"LINK?!?!?!?"
"What makes you so special?"
"That you, Barack?"

etc. etc. etc.
One person on DU--count 'em, ONE--came back on the thread and apologized after the announcement was made.

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