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Girard442

(6,059 posts)
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 05:53 PM Jul 2020

What happens if a state doesn't select electors and therefore doesn't submit any E.C. votes?

The Constitution says:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors...


What if they don't? Does the EC voting proceed as if those states don't exist? Or, could one or more states throw sand in the gears by claiming they had to delay their elections?

Could this end up in the SCOTUS?

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What happens if a state doesn't select electors and therefore doesn't submit any E.C. votes? (Original Post) Girard442 Jul 2020 OP
1876. roamer65 Jul 2020 #1
Not reassuring. Girard442 Jul 2020 #4
It isn't. roamer65 Jul 2020 #8
well the only way that affects us is if qazplm135 Jul 2020 #2
Thing is, would you need 270 to win? Or just a majority of the votes actually submitted? Girard442 Jul 2020 #5
you need 270 qazplm135 Jul 2020 #11
Where does it say that? dumbcat Jul 2020 #17
it says it right there qazplm135 Jul 2020 #20
I don't think so. Laelth Jul 2020 #23
lol qazplm135 Jul 2020 #24
The issue, here, isn't whether electors will be faithful. Laelth Jul 2020 #25
ffs qazplm135 Jul 2020 #26
Worse Bettie Jul 2020 #3
If several states do not certify their election it can get thrown into the House. mackdaddy Jul 2020 #6
The make up of Congress right now is irrelevant Trumpocalypse Jul 2020 #12
That sounds valid. Have not heard that brought up. mackdaddy Jul 2020 #16
WHY do you think this scenario is a possibility? Captain Zero Jul 2020 #7
I'm imagining a scenario where governors invoke emergency powers to delay elections. Girard442 Jul 2020 #10
for fucks sake qazplm135 Jul 2020 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author Girard442 Jul 2020 #9
The answer is in Amendment 12 sarisataka Jul 2020 #13
That does seem to nail it down pretty well. TY. Girard442 Jul 2020 #14
Research the Presidential election of 1864. Laelth Jul 2020 #15
Lincoln won that election during a Civil War qazplm135 Jul 2020 #22
A state that does that will lose every one of the votes cast by its citizens Hekate Jul 2020 #18
In 2000, the Florida legislature was ready to award the electors to bush Orangepeel Jul 2020 #19

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
1. 1876.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 05:54 PM
Jul 2020

A monument to the dysfunction called the Electoral College.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1876_United_States_presidential_election

Pay particular to the section “Colorado”.

Yes, state legislatures can appoint a slate of electors, even without a popular vote.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
8. It isn't.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 06:02 PM
Jul 2020

I am wondering if this is the game plan for letting the pandemic go unfettered.

Some states may declare the voting too dangerous and try to cancel it and appoint the electors. With a majority of state legislatures controlled by Repukes, guess where this may be headed.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
2. well the only way that affects us is if
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 05:55 PM
Jul 2020

we don't have enough to win. If we do, who cares. If we don't, why would they? If it's a tie, why would they?

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
17. Where does it say that?
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:47 PM
Jul 2020

I thought it was the majority of the votes of the electors.

"The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed"

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
20. it says it right there
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:57 PM
Jul 2020

you need 270, because that's a majority.

If you don't have 270 because someone doesn't vote, or votes for someone else, then you either lost, or it goes to the House.

The parties appoint the electors in all but ten states to begin with.

So this crazy hypo could only have a chance of happening in 10 states, and in 9 of those ten states, it's still part of the party apparatus.

The only state that has the governor pick is Florida.

So Biden would have to be over 270 with Florida, under without it, AND the Gov would have to refuse to certify a Biden win. I don't see how that happens in a way that wouldn't go to the courts and I don't think that scenario turns out like Bush v Gore because it simply opens up a Gov to completely ignore an election result and pretty sure that's not going to fly.

People need to stop thinking of creative ways to lose and get back to focusing on winning.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
23. I don't think so.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 08:01 PM
Jul 2020

Majority means majority. If only 99 electors vote, you win with 50. That’s a majority.

The total number of electors who appear to vote in the electoral college is not defined in the Constitution.

-Laelth

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
24. lol
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 08:04 PM
Jul 2020

It's defined by the language, the number is an outgrowth of that, and the SC already ruled that you have to vote the way your state voted as an elector and you can be replaced.

So there are no longer going to be faithless electors, there aren't going to be delayed elections, governors are not going to somehow strategically withhold results.

It's going to be 270 until we add or subtract states.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
25. The issue, here, isn't whether electors will be faithful.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 08:10 PM
Jul 2020

The issue, here, is what happens if one or more states don’t send any electors at all (due to cancelled or severely compromised elections).

Am I missing the point of this discussion?



-Laelth

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
3. Worse
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 05:56 PM
Jul 2020

it could end up in the House where each state has one vote.

All they need is some assholes in a handful red states who refuse to certify the electors.

mackdaddy

(1,520 posts)
6. If several states do not certify their election it can get thrown into the House.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 06:01 PM
Jul 2020

Unfortunately, each state gets only 1 vote there. More states right now are controlled by the Republicans, and even if there were overwhelming votes for Biden they could constitutionally elect Trump if this were to happen. This has been talked about on the Thom Hartmann show as part of the 12th amendment, and kind of the ultimate dirty trick the Repubs could pull.

I would say that it could trigger an actual civil war if they pulled this, but hey Trump.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
12. The make up of Congress right now is irrelevant
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 06:58 PM
Jul 2020

The new Congress elected in November and sworn in in January will hold the vote.

mackdaddy

(1,520 posts)
16. That sounds valid. Have not heard that brought up.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:36 PM
Jul 2020

Still it depends too much on how many Repub controlled state legislative delegations are left after this election.

Another reason to make sure everyone comes out to vote every last one of the bastards out from President to township trustee.

Captain Zero

(6,714 posts)
7. WHY do you think this scenario is a possibility?
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 06:01 PM
Jul 2020

The parties pick the people who will be electors if their candidate wins. Usually pretty well placed party loyalists. Why do you imagine those electors would be a no show when the EC meets ?

Response to Girard442 (Original post)

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
13. The answer is in Amendment 12
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:18 PM
Jul 2020
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed


Essentially it will be treated as if the state doesn't exist.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
15. Research the Presidential election of 1864.
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:26 PM
Jul 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_United_States_presidential_election

That should answer most of your questions. 9 states did not send electors to the electoral college. Those states simply weren’t counted, and the election proceeded normally. Abraham Lincoln won a second term.

As to the SCOTUS, yes. Any given lawsuit can or may go to the SCOTUS for adjudication, and that’s because people, corporations, and states always have the right to sue. What the SCOTUS might do with the kind of case you imagine is an entirely different question. I have no idea.



-Laelth

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
22. Lincoln won that election during a Civil War
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 08:01 PM
Jul 2020

212 to 12. Elections were held in the Union-occupied military districts in the states of Louisiana and Tennessee, but no electoral votes were counted from them. The other "9 states" were at the time not part of the US so of course they didn't send electors.

I don't really think that's going to be the ironclad answer you assert.

The whole point of the recent SC case was also to say that electors have no discretion, they can't refuse to vote for the person who won their state, and they can be replaced.

Hekate

(90,196 posts)
18. A state that does that will lose every one of the votes cast by its citizens
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:49 PM
Jul 2020

Which would be pretty counter-productive

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
19. In 2000, the Florida legislature was ready to award the electors to bush
Fri Jul 17, 2020, 07:57 PM
Jul 2020

SCOTUS stopped the recount, so it was never an issue, but they absolutely would have.

If a state with a republican legislature has a close election and "irregularities" are claimed, I wouldn't be shocked if they went through with it.

So, it can't be close

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