General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOK, how about "PC Joe's" instead of "Trader Joe's?"
See underlined below.
I appreciate the idea that members of ethnic groups have the right to determine what is and is not offensive, but I guarantee you, from direct personal experience, that not ALL members of the groups mentioned below find TJ's names offensive. Some still find them light hearted attempts at inclusiveness.
Maybe they should stop selling ethnic foods, so as not to be guilty of "cultural appropriation."
Sorry, this was e-mailed to me, so no link.
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Trader Joes plans to remove ethnic brand names from its products as a petition calling for their removal gains steam.
The California-based grocery chain said its working to phase out foreign names it has attached to ethnic foods, such as Trader Josés for Mexican cuisine, Trader Mings for Chinese products and Arabian Joes for Middle Eastern dishes.
While this approach to product naming may have been rooted in a lighthearted attempt at inclusiveness, we recognize that it may now have the opposite effect one that is contrary to the welcoming, rewarding customer experience we strive to create every day, Trader Joes spokeswoman Kenya Friend-Daniel said in a statement.
Trader Joes revealed the plans after the launch of an online petition urging the company to ditch racist brand names that prop up ethnic stereotypes and treat other cultures as exotic.
The petition which had racked up more than 2,200 signatures as of Monday morning also raises concerns about the roots of the Trader Joes name itself. The brand was inspired by Disneylands Jungle Trip ride and the 1919 book White Shadows in the South Seas, which both contain racist depictions of indigenous people, according to the petition.
The common thread between all of these transgressions is the perpetuation of exoticism, the goal of which is not to appreciate other cultures, but to further other and distance them from the perceived normal,' the petition reads.
marybourg
(12,540 posts)Dems usually consider the same concept to be one of civility or courtesy or respect.
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)Its been my name here since 2004
Truth be told, its from an early handbook for computing. I needed a name, I couldnt think of one, I looked down and saw PC Intern n on my desktop, literally my desktop, and just typed it. Little did I reckon that 16 years later that would be my name.
marybourg
(12,540 posts)PCIntern
(25,347 posts)🐎
marybourg
(12,540 posts)👍
PCIntern
(25,347 posts)Denise, do you?
marybourg
(12,540 posts)madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)Hekate
(90,189 posts)Nature Man
(869 posts)is a conservative, racist pastime. It's usually because some white folks are mad they can't use racial epithets freely anymore.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,746 posts)I'd never noticed those names.
Actually, I only go there to buy wine because they have good prices on alcohol. Otherwise things seem to be over priced and I can never find standard foods I can find everywhere else.
lame54
(35,138 posts)marybourg
(12,540 posts)Its a bit of a shopping adventure! I dont shop there any more either because, due to celiac disease, I cant experiment with new brands and flavors. But it was fun years ago when I could eat new foods.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)...quite a few years ago. Vons workers went on strike, then Ralphs. TJs had just moved into the neighborhood but I had the same notion as you, and had not tried them out much. But I wont cross a picket line, so...
Turns out their dairy is much fresher, for one thing I found that out after the strike ended and went back briefly to Vons. As for the rest, TJs sells in small amounts, not bulk. Vons beef would periodically go on sale, and I took advantage of that when the kids were still at home. God knows what those cows ate but it was cheap.
TJs meats are indeed expensive. I have a hard time making myself pay for grass-fed beef, almost like I am not worthy to cook it. I get rotisserie chickens from Costco. I occasionally buy ham steaks from Costco.
TJs selection of cheeses is fabulous. AFAICT same price per pound as elsewhere, but in small quantities, so I dont break the budget, and also can try more than one kind. They pair nicely with the wines you like!
At one point I calculated that, overall, the prices were fair, its just that the packaging is not for big families.
The only items I really need to get from a regular grocery store are Ajax or Comet scouring powder, dog kibble, and ice cream that is not super-premium in calories.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Just the subsidiary ethnic-food brands which use Latinix or Asian names (José, Ming).
The founder of Trader Joe's was a man named Joseph. There's nothing wrong with the name Trader Joe's.
LAS14
(13,749 posts)The petition which had racked up more than 2,200 signatures as of Monday morning also raises concerns about the roots of the Trader Joes name itself. The brand was inspired by Disneylands Jungle Trip ride and the 1919 book White Shadows in the South Seas, which both contain racist depictions of indigenous people, according to the petition.
Croney
(4,646 posts)a strong argument against it. Since the 1970s when I fought to be called Ms. and not Mrs., there have been women disagreeing.
I don't have a stake in this fight but it did open my eyes to names and labels I took for granted, so I'm grateful for that growth.
obamanut2012
(25,911 posts)Hands down. It is almost impossible to get a job there except for when a new store opens.
PC is also a right wing term, period.
Why snark about a company like this? Go make an OP about Goya.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Great, great.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)We used to call that common courtesy. Now some people behave as if other people choosing to treat people with courtesy is a personal attack that somehow harms or takes something away from them.
Why do you care that Trader Joe's is trying to be a responsible corporate citizen by not offending ethnic groups to which you may not belong - so much that you would take the time to amplify public criticisms of them for it? Is their action hurting you - or anyone else - in any way?
I expect to see this kind of complaint elsewhere, not here.
lame54
(35,138 posts)Requesting a name change for their
ethnic items is one thing
But
They are demanding they change the company name
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They are going to stop bastardizing the name into supposed ethnic names like "Trader Josés Trader Mings and Arabian Joes."
That's very different.
As I said, the offense taken by the OP makes no sense - especially here.
lame54
(35,138 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I suggest you read the petition before continuing to try mischaracterize what it says.
But I ask again: Why do you CARE?
lame54
(35,138 posts)It's starts out with the word Demand
It list the ethnically questionable names
And then uses most of the petition explaining where the company name came from which ads "Trader Joe's" to the list of name changes they are demanding
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It starts with: "We demand that Trader Joes remove racist branding and packaging from its stores. The grocery chain labels some of its ethnic foods with modifications of Joe that belies a narrative of exoticism that perpetuates harmful stereotypes. For example, Trader Mings is used to brand the chains Chinese food, Arabian Joe brands Middle Eastern foods, Trader José brands Mexican foods, Trader Giottos is for Italian food, and Trader Joe San brands their Japanese cuisine"
It goes on to say that the name "Trader Joe" is itself racist, as contextualized by the history of the name, but nowhere does it demand that the company change its name.
You may not like what they are asking, but mischaracterizing what they're asking for doesn't help your argument.
But again I ask you - why do you even care?
lame54
(35,138 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)"What's next, __________???"
"Sometimes PC goes too far."
"I'm sorry, but __________."
"This just gives them more ammunition!"
"This is just silly."
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)grumpyduck
(6,198 posts)The first time I saw a box labelled "Trader Giotto's" I said to myself, hey these guys have a sense of humor. Then I realized the label went right along with the company name: Trader Joe's. Trader, as in trading, as in ships going overseas to drop off and bring back materials or products. As in the camel caravans of centuries ago. As in commerce. If someone had said to me that the labels were "a lighthearted attempt at inclusiveness," I would have told them to get a life and read up on history, civilization, and commerce.
What's next, somebody starting a petition wanting Trader Joe's to stop selling "food from other cultures" because they're misappropriating those cultures? Then, of course, someone will want to close down Chinese, Indian, Thai, Cuban, Mexican, and lots of other restaurants for the same reason.
And who said that the company is offending ethnic groups? I see people from other countries in there all the time, buying everything and anything, and they DO NOT look offended. Of course it's harder to see this nowadays with all the masks, but they appear to be very happy. The company is not offending ethnic groups -- some people jumped on the "racist" bandwagon and set up this petition. I have to wonder how many of them are from other countries or even shop there.
This whole crock of bullshit really galls me. When I was a kid in school, they used to call history "Social Studies." I never found out why. But one of the things our teachers told us over and over is that the U.S. has been a melting pot since day one, and proud of it. So inclusiveness, as it's called nowadays, has been there from day one. We don't need a bunch of people who apparently slept thru history class to re-invent the wheel and get up on a soapbox to start reciting this bullshit.
AFAIC, all this bullshit is doing is splitting people apart instead of bringing them together. Right now we need to pull together instead of pulling apart.
Mossfern
(2,375 posts)labeled "Trader Moishe's" knishes.
Couldn't think of a Hebrew or Yiddish equivalent to "Joe" besides "Joseph."
Yes, I was taught that our nation was a Melting Pot - but one who's distinct cultures were shared and celebrated.
I certainly can see how they would consider those names for products as lighthearted inclusiveness.
Maybe I don't get offended easily?
superpatriotman
(6,232 posts)or Yossef or Yusuf
marybourg
(12,540 posts)Mossfern
(2,375 posts)I have no skin in this game.
There are more important things to be upset about than this.
I think it's a distraction.
See?
I'm already distracted!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)Mossfern
(2,375 posts)What's wrong with using ethnic names with ethnic foods?
I honestly don't understand the kerfuffle here.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)The portrayal of Jewish men in movies as diminutive and neurotic as if we are all Woody Allen or Larry David though the latter isn't diminutive.
Mossfern
(2,375 posts)My husband looks like a cross between Larry David and Bernie Sanders.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)The whole Jewish American Princess thing.
Mossfern
(2,375 posts)People make assumptions before they meet me.
I'm an herbalist and an artist - mother of four wild and wacky kids. (Now wild and wacky adults)
Worked in Environmental Affairs and Social Services for my County.
Designer stuff is just a waste of money.
If someone calls me a JAP - I deck 'em.
marybourg
(12,540 posts)purposes by a company/person who is not, and would never be, named that themselves. Otherwise they could name it Brians Knishes. But they wouldnt. Would they? They appropriate a stereotypical name belonging to another group which taked their names seriously. Its like making fun of the names Juan or Yossel
marybourg
(12,540 posts)Mossfern
(2,375 posts)Yiddish was my parents' "secret language."
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)One of the pieces of bs is the "this is so divisive" argument.
How does this "split people apart"? Who is it splitting and from whom are they splitting? Are you personally offended that Trader Joe's has made a business decision not to use certain brand names on its products? If so, why are you offended? How does it harm you? And if you are offended, who does it pull you apart from and why? Are you going to stop working toward racial justice because of it? If so, why?
As I said, there's plenty of bullshit afood here. Maybe you should stop helping to disseminate it.
grumpyduck
(6,198 posts)even though you offended me personally with that last sentence. That was uncalled for.
Pointing out differences instead of similarities gets a lot of people riled up, especially nowadays. "I'm this and you're that." I grew up in an area where everyone was treated the same, with acceptance and respect. We busted on each other for various reasons and did not take it personally. We had a sense of humor and common sense. And the term political correctness hadn't come in yet. Maybe I was very lucky.
I'm not "offended" by the company's business decision. I'm disappointed that they did it for the reason they did. As Bill Cosby (yeah, yeah, I know) said many years ago, "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
It doesn't pull me apart from anybody, nor does it harm me, and I did not imply that it did.
And "racial justice?" How about just plain "justice?" As much as the term "should" is not in my vocabulary, I'm going to say that justice "should" have nothing to do with race.
And BTW, in case you haven't noticed in your 9,700 posts, this is a chat room. It's all about expressing opinions. Nobody is on trial here and we do not need to be interrogated and expected to answer questions.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You say "it doesn't pull me apart from anybody" but you complained that "all this bullshit is doing is splitting people apart instead of bringing them together ... Right now we need to pull together instead of pulling apart." So, who exactly is it splitting and pulling apart?
I have found that, usually when that argument is made about "division," the people making it aren't really concerned at all about divisions but are really warning minorities to stop being such a pain in the ass or else white people will stop being their allies and walk away. But if someone feels the need to "split away' from the cause of racial justice because they don't like how some people demand it, are they really on the right side in the first place?
Are you as concerned that racist labels might "split/pull people apart" as you are that the effort to eliminate the racist labels might have that effect?
grumpyduck
(6,198 posts)We don't need to be interrogated here. Especially in that tone.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Apparently you think a discussion room is a place where you can express your opinion without being challenged. It's not.
You surely don't have to answer my or anyone's questions. But your consistent dodges and attempts to tone-police only further undermine your already questionable argument.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)This is a breathtakingly shitty thing to say.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Damn.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)Huh.
Brother Buzz
(36,214 posts)I'm guessing the confusion was over the fact that Trader Joe's seemed to be front loaded with Mai Tai and other Tiki cocktail mixes.
Entertaining whether the Trader Joe's name is PC is pretty low on my list
Happy Hoosier
(7,080 posts)If they have evaluated their own branding and come to the conclusion they are not comfortable with it, why would that bother you?
Is it because it doesn't bother you and you're feeling called out?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)from non-white folk to do better.
it's like they feel betrayed or something.
Happy Hoosier
(7,080 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts)... acceptable terminology is, we end up avoiding one another rather than embracing one another and our differences.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)You can ask a person, a message board, or google. The hard part might be listening and incorporating the answer, but that's how we grow. What's great about this approach is that it actually increases connection and communication!
LAS14
(13,749 posts)marybourg
(12,540 posts)Listen, theyll tell you. Read, youll read about it.
LAS14
(13,749 posts)marybourg
(12,540 posts)they would wish.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts)... prompted to write my post by a conversation with two Hispanic women. One of them brought up the TJ's plan. Prompted by the responses here, similar to yours, to just listen, I reached out to a Vietnamese acquaintance. She laughed and said she smiled at those products and thought they should come up with "Trader Tran's."
So I repeat. There may be many "they's" and I'm sorry to see TJs cave this early on. There are no stereotypical pictures, like someone in a pancho snoozing against a cactus. Just respectable ethnic names to go with respectable ethnic foods.
Caliman73
(11,694 posts)People get offended when people within the dominant culture expect them to just "deal with" situations that were imposed upon them.
I think what White people need to understand is that this entire society was created for the comfort and success of (primarily rich, but generally) White people and the rest of us have had to just deal with living in a society where our own experiences were not respected and narratives were imposed on us. Cartoon characters like Speedy Gonzalez and Slow Poke Rodriguez, Mammy and Sambo caricatures. Aunt Jemima and other products that use stereotypes to sell products.
People of color had to accept these situations for a long time and just in the last 50 years our voices have become louder and less patient.
I would not necessarily have said, "racist" but those products are racially insensitive. Racist denotes some thing specific which I am not sure that Trader Joe's intended.
We cannot "embrace" our differences if we don't understand and respect them.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The rest of us can navigate daily social interactions with few to no problems.
We're not avoiding anyone. We're not walking on eggshells.
That's on you.
Happy Hoosier
(7,080 posts)You dont want OTHER people to reconsider words THEY use when talking about other people. Because it makes YOU uncomfortable. You sound like my racist m-i-l lamenting that she cant black people colored anymore. Who could be offended by the term colored she says...
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Come on you should rethink the thread title you are appropriating right wing BS.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)jalan48
(13,798 posts)catsudon
(839 posts)i do not find anything wrong with trader ming's those activists should use their time better on something else
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You first need to ask yourself, "where should it stop?" and begin from there.
Polybius
(15,238 posts)That was just silly.
diva77
(7,604 posts)from residents of places such as Vallejo, CA.
Demographic profile from 2010
White 32.8%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 22.6%
Black or African American 22.1%
Asian 24.9%
Non-Hispanic 25.0%
highmindedhavi
(355 posts)A white male cooking mexican food on tv, shouldn't a person of hispanic descent do his job?
Sympthsical
(8,935 posts)Literally never noticed. Meh. Couldnt care either way. Im getting the sense corporations are looking for points out of doing the bare minimum possible. Weve made our app a different color this week! Uh, good job?
TJs is good for cheap staples like milk, eggs, bread, yogurt, sauces to use as a base, beans, pasta, etc. Their ready to eat meals are somewhat overpriced.
They touch my Curry White Chicken Salad, Im coming for them.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)It'll be OK