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Is blocking highways an effective form of protest? (Original Post) ripcord Sep 2020 OP
Ask Chris Christie and the Con's campaign chair n/t malaise Sep 2020 #1
Oh, snap! eleny Sep 2020 #3
This old lady has a very good memory malaise Sep 2020 #22
Excellent! peggysue2 Sep 2020 #11
That defends on the goal of the protest, they're extremely effective at getting Trump reelected. Snake Plissken Sep 2020 #2
Counterproductive and stupid Zambero Sep 2020 #4
so much this, all you need is one emergency vehicle stuck and boom RazzleCat Sep 2020 #24
I guess having an election stolen wouldn't piss you off? Bobstandard Sep 2020 #5
No underpants Sep 2020 #6
It's a post stolen election strategy, that's all. n/t Bobstandard Sep 2020 #41
No, unless the goal is to get Trump reelected. NT mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2020 #7
Nope. zeusdogmom Sep 2020 #8
Obviously not gratuitous Sep 2020 #9
Yep judeling Sep 2020 #17
Very well said! Bettie Sep 2020 #50
Spot on! bluewater Sep 2020 #62
+1000 well said. This tactic is meant to disrupt and bring immediate attention to the issue at hand Vivienne235729 Sep 2020 #64
No Klaralven Sep 2020 #10
If you have an alternate plan that would get the needed attention, please let us know. GemDigger Sep 2020 #12
Pissing off thousands of commuters certainly gets their attention, granted. Dial H For Hero Sep 2020 #14
Do you have an alternate proposal? maxsolomon Sep 2020 #18
Oh sure, you will get the attention TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #27
Kaepernick kneeled and people complained JonLP24 Sep 2020 #28
In my mind, blocking freeways is akin to collective punishment TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #42
You didn't propose a better alternative. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #45
I did suggest an alternative TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #59
A collective impact is what you want out of a protest. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #60
Sounds like a losing strategy TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #67
If there is a better plan out there it would help if it was shared. GemDigger Sep 2020 #19
No. nt cwydro Sep 2020 #13
They can be judeling Sep 2020 #15
How do you make your protest unignorable? maxsolomon Sep 2020 #16
Not if done judeling Sep 2020 #23
+1 lunasun Sep 2020 #58
Many people on the highway are NOT "entitled suburbanites" brooklynite Sep 2020 #32
OK, exceptions noted. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #44
Why do you imagine that, absent blocking traffic, working class people are not aware? brooklynite Sep 2020 #49
This OP is about blocking highways as a protest tactic. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #51
If one alienates a potential source of support.... Happy Hoosier Sep 2020 #46
More criticism. I think we all understand the drawbacks. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #47
Sure, exactly what we did in our town.... Happy Hoosier Sep 2020 #48
So, let everyone know in advance how to avoid the protest. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #52
I'm sorry... what? Happy Hoosier Sep 2020 #56
I didn't devise the tactic of blocking freeways. I have never done it. maxsolomon Sep 2020 #63
I'm saying showing the tactic.... Happy Hoosier Sep 2020 #65
Well, then, if "alienating a potential source of support" is the metric Bettie Sep 2020 #54
You're right, which is why John Lewis marching across the Edmund Pettus Bridge accomplished nothing. W_HAMILTON Sep 2020 #20
Are you saying the goal of the Selma-Montgomery march was to block traffic? brooklynite Sep 2020 #33
The white cops that beat some of them within an inch of their lives thought so. W_HAMILTON Sep 2020 #36
Well said. bluewater Sep 2020 #61
LOL people are reaching for any reason to not support the issues JonLP24 Sep 2020 #21
How is a protest that's convenient for everyone effective? Kaleva Sep 2020 #25
How is a protest that generates hostility to the protesters effective? brooklynite Sep 2020 #34
Our history is full of examples where such protests proved to be effective. Kaleva Sep 2020 #35
Name the tactics of those protests that were directed at disrupting the lives of ordinary people... brooklynite Sep 2020 #37
The mine strikes in the Copper Country 100 years ago. Kaleva Sep 2020 #40
No, just like the anti-maskers blocking roads... Buckeye_Democrat Sep 2020 #26
Well, let's see... LuckyCharms Sep 2020 #29
Did you notice it? Then yes. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2020 #30
It certainly brings attention to the cause MenloParque Sep 2020 #31
No Takket Sep 2020 #38
It's only okay if you're heavily armed right wing anti-maskers. tenderfoot Sep 2020 #39
I think that would piss people off too TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #43
Well, people get pissed off Bettie Sep 2020 #53
when pointing out a breakdown of the social contract, i can understand 0rganism Sep 2020 #55
I don't see rioting and vandalism winning any sympathy TheRealNorth Sep 2020 #68
what does "social contract" mean to you? 0rganism Sep 2020 #69
Every form of protest results in "pissing off a bunch of people..." LanternWaste Sep 2020 #57
As a newbie who has protested on and off the streets roman88 Sep 2020 #66
I have to agree. Rhiannon12866 Sep 2020 #70
Blocking highways and streets are what I consider "good trouble" Wanderlust988 Sep 2020 #71
Yes canetoad Sep 2020 #72
Yes. drh.1979 Sep 2020 #73

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
2. That defends on the goal of the protest, they're extremely effective at getting Trump reelected.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:11 AM
Sep 2020

Right now the protest around the country are Trump's only hope for reelection

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
4. Counterproductive and stupid
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:16 AM
Sep 2020

Ratf*ckers and RW propagandists would definitely want to see more of this "tactic".

Bobstandard

(1,279 posts)
5. I guess having an election stolen wouldn't piss you off?
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:16 AM
Sep 2020

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke

zeusdogmom

(978 posts)
8. Nope.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:26 AM
Sep 2020

It only succeeds in pi$$ing off everyone trying to get to work, to school, to pick up the kids from daycare, the doctor, the grocery store, etc. Even if I agree with the cause, it irritates me to no end. If your protest can only succeed by causing great inconvenience or harm to others, your protest is successful only in feeding your own ego and feeling of self importance. EOM from cranky old lady 😄

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
9. Obviously not
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:30 AM
Sep 2020

If all you people would just come up with a quiet, dignified form of protest the didn't inconvenience me personally, and that I didn't have to see, and that didn't draw my attention to whatever injustice it is you're trying to remedy, I'd be okay with that.

In fact, it would be best if you just learned to continue living with that injustice without objection that would be best for me. Thanks for finally recognizing and conceding that my right to get a pack of smokes at the neighborhood store without delay is far more important than whatever picayune concern it is that you have.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
14. Pissing off thousands of commuters certainly gets their attention, granted.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:43 AM
Sep 2020

As for persuading them to one's side on a political issue when doing so....not so much.

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
18. Do you have an alternate proposal?
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:47 AM
Sep 2020

or just criticism?

How do you make suburbanites listen? Come to their town, dressed in black, on school buses?

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
27. Oh sure, you will get the attention
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 12:13 PM
Sep 2020

But if your goal is to change or win hearts and minds, then I think blocking freeways is a shitty tactic

But if you're goal is 4 more years, then I guess you have a winner.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
28. Kaepernick kneeled and people complained
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 12:15 PM
Sep 2020

Trust me when it comes to BLM there is no right way to protest.

It seems so many people in this thread are unaware of the controversial police tactic called "kettling".

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
42. In my mind, blocking freeways is akin to collective punishment
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 08:30 PM
Sep 2020

Historically, the results of those that implement collective punishment is that it turns people that are indifferent and/or sympathetic to your cause against you.

Kettling is an altogether different issue. I mean, if you are willing to break the law and block a freeway, what is stopping you from just ignoring the attempt to kettle?

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
59. I did suggest an alternative
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 11:38 AM
Sep 2020

I said if the police try to "kettle" you, then practice civil disobedience at that point. That is what they did in the '60's.

Now please answer my question about whether you think Collective punishment of everyone on that highway that you block is justified because of the indifference or actions of (presumably) some on that highway?

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
60. A collective impact is what you want out of a protest.
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 12:00 PM
Sep 2020

You want people to hear your message, not ignore it. It's not supposed to be polite.

I accept that someone else's protest may inconvenience me, and I don't think it is a matter of "justice" or "fairness" that is does. Life is unfair. You can call it collective punishment, but I bet BLM activists would disagree with that framing. Collective Impact or Collective Awakening, maybe.

BTW, you proposed a strategy when the Police "kettle" protestors. The decision to march onto the freeway is usually voluntary and not forced on marchers. It's not a particularly common tactic here in the Soviet of Seattle, but it was used this summer when the anger was burning brightly.

judeling

(1,086 posts)
15. They can be
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:43 AM
Sep 2020

But it depends the strength and control of the leadership. It moves protestors to a controlled environment away from business and residential. It is significant and aggressive enough to draw attention and if after some violence the leadership is able to denounce looting and destruction it plays well and can inject some separation of the movement and the violence.

Darn this takes me back to the 60's.

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
16. How do you make your protest unignorable?
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:45 AM
Sep 2020

Let's say you are protesting injustice in a major city, a place that many white people have removed themselves from, except to traverse it on an interstate highway.

You need them to pay attention, to acknowledge the injustices, to be impacted, to not simply dismiss you (which is what the privileged prefer). No justice, no peace. Maybe you can see how it begins to make sense to the activists.

The effect, however, is to infuriate the privileged suburbanites (or whomever), creating resentment against the protests, because they are inconvenienced.

It has resulted in deaths, committed by infuriated drivers: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/marchers-say-hit-and-run-that-killed-protester-on-i-5-isnt-the-only-time-theyve-been-targeted-by-drivers/

Give me convenience or give me death, as the Dead Kennedys once sang.


judeling

(1,086 posts)
23. Not if done
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:55 AM
Sep 2020

in context.

My commute took an extra hour, does not stand up over time to, They are fucking killing us.

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
32. Many people on the highway are NOT "entitled suburbanites"
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:04 PM
Sep 2020

Th y are working class folks in buses, delivery people, taxi drivers...

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
44. OK, exceptions noted.
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 11:14 AM
Sep 2020

Can you propose a good alternative that gets working class folks in buses, delivery people and taxi drivers to hear, acknowledge, and support BLM's cause?

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
51. This OP is about blocking highways as a protest tactic.
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 01:00 PM
Sep 2020

It is asserting that it is counterproductive.

Instead of criticizing my assumptions or generalizations, can you propose a more effective method of protesting that will not alienate freeway drivers?

Happy Hoosier

(7,077 posts)
46. If one alienates a potential source of support....
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 11:17 AM
Sep 2020

how does that help?

If I am late to work, or late to pick up my kids, or miss a doctor's appointment, I an guarantee you that will not be inclined to support your cause.

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
47. More criticism. I think we all understand the drawbacks.
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 11:19 AM
Sep 2020

Can you propose an alternative form of protest that would garner support for BLM?


Happy Hoosier

(7,077 posts)
48. Sure, exactly what we did in our town....
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 12:33 PM
Sep 2020

We had a scheduled rally with announced road closures. Lots of signs and detours. Local cops supported it and it went great.

Happy Hoosier

(7,077 posts)
56. I'm sorry... what?
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 03:07 PM
Sep 2020

So you are fine with people being late to pick up their kids, or getting in trouble for being late for work?

Does that show human compassion? It does not.

maxsolomon

(32,987 posts)
63. I didn't devise the tactic of blocking freeways. I have never done it.
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 12:09 PM
Sep 2020

I said why I believe activists choose to do that, and asked for effective alternatives, which seem to be few and far between on this thread.

Are you saying that BLM activists who lead these marches do not have human compassion?

Happy Hoosier

(7,077 posts)
65. I'm saying showing the tactic....
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 12:26 PM
Sep 2020

... demonstrates a certain disregard for the lives of other working people.

I don;t give a shit is Chad and Buffy are late for their tee time. But if a blue collar worker has to pay a $50 dollar late fee when picking up their kid from daycare, I think that sucks, and I think organizers need to consider that.

My daughter is older now, but I remember having to pay a late fee for picking her up when stuff hapens, and when when money is tight, it's a big fuggin' deal.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
54. Well, then, if "alienating a potential source of support" is the metric
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 02:01 PM
Sep 2020

there should never be any protests anywhere.

Wow, that's sounds effective , just wait and hope that someone notices the injustices or oppression, yeah, nothing will ever change, but no one will be inconvenienced.

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
33. Are you saying the goal of the Selma-Montgomery march was to block traffic?
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:12 PM
Sep 2020

Might want to brush up on your history.

W_HAMILTON

(7,813 posts)
36. The white cops that beat some of them within an inch of their lives thought so.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:28 PM
Sep 2020

One person's """blocking traffic""" is another person's peaceful protest.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
21. LOL people are reaching for any reason to not support the issues
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:52 AM
Sep 2020

To me it doesn't matter if there are protests or not I'm going to continue to challenge racism as best I can.

Police kettling is often the cause

On Tuesday evening, as a large group of peaceful protesters marched over the Manhattan Bridge, members of the New York Police Department parked on opposite ends of the span, trapping 5,000 people over the water for nearly an hour. The night before, in Dallas, police officers corralled protesters on the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge before arresting 674 of them (they were released later that night, with ‘at-large charges’ for ‘blocking traffic’). That same night in Washington, D.C., police officers drove protesters into a crowded intersection of Swann and 15th NW with teargas. All over the country this week, police officers have surrounded protesters—and then refused to let them leave.

This tactic is called kettling, a word you might have seen popping up in social media posts from and about the protests. The term evokes a boiling tea kettle, but it actually comes from a German military term referring to an army that’s completely surrounded by a much larger force. “Kettling is a law enforcement tactic specifically applied when the police have chosen to criminalize existence in public spaces,” says Blake Strode, Executive Director of ArchCity Defenders, a legal advocacy group that has handled kettling cases in St. Louis. “So separate and apart from who is caught in them and how people are impacted, which is all true and well-stated, it is also fundamentally about police dictating whom is allowed to be where and when.”

Ostensibly a form of riot control, kettling occurs when police officers block off streets and push people into confined areas, like a city block or a bridge. While protest and riot management traditionally focuses on dispersing crowds, kettling is all about containment. When you’re kettled, you have no access to bathrooms, very little space, and no place to go. Critically, no one gets to leave until the police say so. “Basically, it’s a pressure cooker without a valve,” said civil rights attorney Javad Khazaeli, ArchCity Defenders’ co-counsel on kettling cases.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/what-is-kettling/amp

Police do this for exactly these kind of reactions. When I see this sort of police presence at protests I feel like we don't have a first amendment.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
25. How is a protest that's convenient for everyone effective?
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 11:58 AM
Sep 2020

The Vietnam War and Civil Rights protests pissed off people, many were arrested, and a few even killed but they were effective.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
35. Our history is full of examples where such protests proved to be effective.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:26 PM
Sep 2020

The anti-war, civil rights and pro-union protests generated a great deal of hostility and some were killed but results were achieved.

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
37. Name the tactics of those protests that were directed at disrupting the lives of ordinary people...
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:29 PM
Sep 2020

...rather than businesses, elected officials and politicians?

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
40. The mine strikes in the Copper Country 100 years ago.
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:41 PM
Sep 2020

You had neighbor pitted against neighbor. Those who wanted the mines to stay open so they'd have a job and those who supported the strikes in an effort to improve working conditions and such. The mines were the economic lifeblood of the region and when they were shut down, most everyone was affected. It's been said that the bodies of the murdered are still at the bottom of the air shafts of the long closed down mines.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,846 posts)
26. No, just like the anti-maskers blocking roads...
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 12:03 PM
Sep 2020

... didn't help them either.

Someone will needlessly die inside an ambulance eventually, if it hasn't happened already.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
29. Well, let's see...
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 12:16 PM
Sep 2020

You're blocked between exits , for example, so there is no way to take an alternate route.

1) You've been unemployed for over a year, and you are driving to a competitive interview for your dream job that you think you have a very good chance of getting.

2) You have just parked your car somewhere. You have a friend of yours with you. You leave your parked car to go out jogging on a jogging route that you and your friend run a few times a week. While starting your run, your friend has a very severe allergic reaction to some environmental stimuli. Their throat is closing as a result of the reaction, and they are struggling to breathe. No time to call an ambulance. You manage to get them back to your car to drive them to the hospital. Now you are stuck on the highway, between exits, with no escape, and your friend is starting to pass out. (I type this because this happened to a friend of mine once when we were out running. I was literally driving up on the sidewalk to avoid stopped traffic in order to get her to the hospital).

3) You are grocery shopping with your elderly mother, and while driving home on the highway, she turns pale and dizzy, and says she has chest pains. You decide to drive her to the ER because it is only one exit away. but you are blocked between the exits.

4) Your wife is in labor. You are driving her to the hospital. You now are stuck between exits.

I don't think blocking a highway is a very good idea. Sure, it's a good way to call attention to your cause, but it can be more than an inconvenience...it can cost lives.

MenloParque

(505 posts)
31. It certainly brings attention to the cause
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 12:55 PM
Sep 2020

But I have to hear snarky comments from my conservative colleagues every time there a road closure due to protestors. Ughhh!!! I can’t believe in progressive SF Bay Area and a top IT company I’m surrounded by Right Winger Gun humpers!! I guess teenage government hatin’ hacker types have to work somewhere when they grow older.

Takket

(21,424 posts)
38. No
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 01:30 PM
Sep 2020

All this does is piss off the public to your cause. Americans support protests but expect rules to be followed when doing so.

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
43. I think that would piss people off too
Wed Sep 2, 2020, 08:33 PM
Sep 2020

If we could spin that as the narrative because only RW gun-humpers were doing it.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
53. Well, people get pissed off
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 01:06 PM
Sep 2020

about nearly every protest.

Of course, no one seems to mind heavily armed white people who are angry that they can't get haircuts and go to bars, that's cool.

But boy howdy, Black and Brown people protesting in literally any way pisses off a whole lot of people.

So, please, do tell, what is the "appropriate" form of protest that will inconvenience or annoy no one?

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
55. when pointing out a breakdown of the social contract, i can understand
Thu Sep 3, 2020, 02:13 PM
Sep 2020

yeah some people are going to get inconvenienced and some are going to harden their hearts as a result, but sometimes a message can't be heard otherwise

same with rioting and vandalism -- these are (often, not always) the voices of the unheard and the under-represented speaking in terms that maybe bring some awareness, if not sympathy

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
68. I don't see rioting and vandalism winning any sympathy
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 03:55 PM
Sep 2020

But congratulations for having your message heard. Although I am not sure the message being communicated is the same as what you intended.

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
69. what does "social contract" mean to you?
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 04:23 PM
Sep 2020

i think you misunderstood my post but that happens sometimes.

 

roman88

(52 posts)
66. As a newbie who has protested on and off the streets
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 12:27 PM
Sep 2020

I'd have to say no to an extent. Blocking traffic as an immediate response is effective, but to continue to do it everyday for a prolonged period of time is not only a good way to piss off those who'd lend thier support, it also shows a lack of planning for further action on part of the group protesting. I've been in many situations where organizers didn't know what to do next after having the spotlight on them or fellow protestors break off to do thier own thing or heckle bystanders (which is a big NO NO imo).

Basically if protesting stops at blocking traffic then its a sloppy effort at best.

Rhiannon12866

(202,970 posts)
70. I have to agree.
Sun Sep 6, 2020, 04:42 AM
Sep 2020

The local gathering we had to protest caging immigrant children was disrupted by a handful of Trump supporters - with a megaphone - who got into the street (the main road through town) and stopped traffic. The few hundred of us protesters stayed out of the streets, respected the largely benign police presence and carried signs while we listened to speakers. They spoiled it for the rest of us from then on.

Wanderlust988

(509 posts)
71. Blocking highways and streets are what I consider "good trouble"
Sun Sep 6, 2020, 04:45 AM
Sep 2020

Sometimes that is what it takes. You gotta make people uncomfortable sometimes in order to get attention and get things done. If you only hold up signs downtown in a city park, you are most often ignored. Sometimes you gotta get into good trouble to get things done.

canetoad

(17,088 posts)
72. Yes
Sun Sep 6, 2020, 05:25 AM
Sep 2020

And continue doing so until the 'authorities' are so totally pissed off that they adress the reason for protest.

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