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Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:04 AM

WTF... Trump Says Confederate General Robert E. Lee 'Would Have Won Except for Gettysburg'




https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-confederate-general-robert-e-lee-would-have-won-except-gettysburg-1532765

In a campaign speech in Minnesota on Friday, President Donald Trump defended Confederate leaders including General Robert E. Lee while decrying protesters who attempted to damage Confederate monuments.

President Trump has resisted calls by protesters against racism in the U.S. to get rid of vestiges of the Confederacy. He has said that his administration would not allow military installations that bear the names of Confederate leaders to be rechristened. At a July press conference, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the bases "are not known for the generals they are named after, the bases are known for the heroes that served at them." Trump also signed an executive order which would send protestors who deface historical monuments to jail for ten years.

"Robert E. Lee, whether you like him or not, he won many battles in a row," Trump said Friday. "He would have won except for Gettysburg."

Trump said U.S. protesters "have no idea what they're ripping down. They're ripping down in many cases greatness. They're ripping down our past. They're ripping down our history. That's where these guys begin. They take away your history."


Yea, nothing like a CURRENT US President celebrating a treasonous 19th century general who deliberately gave up his opportunity to lead the Union Army to lead the Confederate one!

And he does this in MINNESOTA ... about as Union territory as it gets (admitted 1858 to the union, I checked lol )

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Reply WTF... Trump Says Confederate General Robert E. Lee 'Would Have Won Except for Gettysburg' (Original post)
steve2470 Sep 21 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 21 #1
steve2470 Sep 21 #4
unblock Sep 21 #17
MFGsunny Sep 21 #19
still_one Sep 21 #30
liberaltrucker Sep 21 #37
Eyeball_Kid Sep 21 #2
PJMcK Sep 21 #23
Johnny2X2X Sep 21 #24
Celerity Sep 21 #34
Grins Sep 21 #38
BKDem Sep 21 #3
Aristus Sep 21 #5
TEB Sep 21 #6
brush Sep 21 #7
Johnny2X2X Sep 21 #27
brush Sep 21 #33
unblock Sep 21 #8
LuvNewcastle Sep 21 #9
BKDem Sep 21 #32
Salviati Sep 21 #10
BusyBeingBest Sep 21 #11
Blue Owl Sep 21 #12
First Speaker Sep 21 #13
malaise Sep 21 #14
marble falls Sep 21 #15
CTyankee Sep 21 #16
Wounded Bear Sep 21 #18
greenjar_01 Sep 21 #20
Klaralven Sep 21 #21
Zing Zing Zingbah Sep 21 #22
steve2470 Sep 21 #26
Botany Sep 21 #25
SWBTATTReg Sep 21 #28
dameatball Sep 21 #29
LeftInTX Sep 21 #31
cayugafalls Sep 21 #35
NewJeffCT Sep 21 #36

Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:07 AM

1. Napoleon would have won except for Waterloo.

Custer would have won except for Little Big Horn.
Charles VI would have won except for Agincourt.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:10 AM

4. yes, very stupid comment, but... classic Trump

Pandering to the racists once more via the Confederate crap.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:26 AM

17. I picked Moscow for napoleon

He was already in retreat by Waterloo. That was merely when he got captured, but he was already lost by then.

Reaching Gettysburg was lee's high water mark. For Napoleon that was reaching Moscow.

Lee's Waterloo would be the siege of Petersburg or the surrender at Appomattox court House

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:28 AM

19. This! a million times THIS. n/t

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:49 AM

30. +++

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 01:40 PM

37. Yamamoto would've won except for Midway

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:09 AM

2. President Pennywise knows jack shit about the Civil War. He's just pumping on the myth.

The South couldn't continue. They would have surrendered anyway. They ran out of money, out of raw materials, and were running out of soldiers. They did NOT have a manufacturing base to keep in the business of waging war. Their secession was ill-advised from the start. Lincoln drove a stake through the heart of "foreign assistance" to the South by France and England by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation. That killed the South's war effort.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:33 AM

23. Good historical points

The continuing celebration of the Confederacy by some, mostly Southerners, has always baffled me.

They were traitors. They were losers. The Confederacy was poorly thought-out as the could never sustain a war effort, mainly for the reasons you point out.

The idea that "the South shall rise again" is totally bogus, offensive and frankly, stupid since the Southern States cannot sustain themselves-- even today!-- without the Federal assistance provided by primarily Northern States. And if they did rise again, would they try to secede again? The phrase is meaningless.

Trump knows jack shit about everything (or is it nothing?). He is the most stupid person I've ever seen in public life and that's saying a lot, eh, Goehmert & Jordan?

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:35 AM

24. And Lee as a super strategic genius is also a myth

He knew strategy, but made several massive blunders that should have forever sullied his name as some great general. The fact he was lionized is pure racism. Lee was too arrogant and it cost him big over and over.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:07 PM

34. Czarist Russia aided the North as well, they were the only major 'European' power to do so

They sent parts of the Imperial fleet to both coasts, and were given a heroes' welcome in NYC, etc.

THE GRAND PROCESSION OF OUR RUSSIAN VISITORS THROUGH BROADWAY, UNDER ESCORT OF THE MILITIA AND POLICE.



This original Civil War Harper's Weekly features a dramatic illustration of the Russian Fleet. The picture is captioned, "The Russian Fleet, Commanded by Admiral Lisovski, Now in New York Harbor.



https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/the-american-civil-war-the-union-told-all-the-european-countries-if-they-recognized-the-confederacys-legitimacy-it-was-equal-to-declaring-war-against-the-union.html

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1863/october/russian-ships.htm


At the time Russia was involved in the 'Great Game' with the British Empire, thus the old 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' rationale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 02:24 PM

38. The very next DAY after Gettysburg - Grant took Vicksburg.

And controlled the Mississippi River. And they already controlled the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers. Confederacy was cut in half, no major seaports.

Then it was good-bye Chattanooga, and hello Atlanta!

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:10 AM

3. Donald would have won the popular vote in 2016

if you don't count all the people who voted against him.

[And...we didn't.}

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:10 AM

5. George Washington would have won the Battle of Brooklyn Heights if it wasn't for the British.



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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:10 AM

6. Actually it was Grant

Who kept up the pressure after lee bagged Richmond in trying to hook up with Johnston army of Tennessee. Shitler is a moron remember we rammed the ramparts and took the airfields in revolutionary war.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:17 AM

7. And Hitler would've won if he hadn't halted his forces at Dunkirk when they...

Last edited Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:20 PM - Edit history (2)

could've captured the trapped British army.

If this, if that, fuck trump and his idolatry of a failed traitor and cruel slave owner.

And Lee lost when Lincoln finally called in Grant from the west where he had prevailed by blocking the Mississippi, a confederate supply route. Grant, no cautious scrub or political appointee, kicked Lee's ass.

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Response to brush (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:37 AM

27. Hitler would have won if he had brokered peace with Russia

He was a fool for not making a deal with Russia for a path to resources thru the caucuses. He could have made a temporary deal, defeated the West and then set his sights on Russia. Russia wanted a deal.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:05 PM

33. True. That was another of Hitler's great mistakes, the first being the thought he knew...

more than the generals (where have I heard that before?). But didn't he and Stalin sign the non-aggression pact, which was smart until Hitler outsmarted himself and invaded Russia anyway before defeating the British. It was really a comedy of errors—holding back from capturing the British army at Dunkirk and invading Russia when he had the pact with them.

Just dump mistakes of an earlier "stable genius", another prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. And from what I understand although they invaded Russia later than the generals wanted to originally, which would come back to bite them later, they advanced far into Russia and were poised to captured Stalingrad. Hitler intervened though, splitting the force in two and sending half south to the capture oil fields in the south and the other half to continue on to Stalingrad, another huge mistake by the stable genius as the Russian winter helped Russian forces outlast the Germans who surrendered after several months of the siege of Stalingrad.

Good thing we're not in a war, trump would probably try to overrule his generals as his idol did.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:18 AM

8. Trenchant historical analysis. Also, Napoleon would have won except for Moscow.

And hitler would have won except for Stalingrad.

Anyone who ever tried to conquer the world would have won except for the battle they lost at their high water mark.

Duh.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:19 AM

9. Oh, wow! Now he's a military historian.

At least when he loses the election he'll have a teaching job at West Point to fall back on.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:03 PM

32. Nope. He can't handle the ramps at West Point.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:19 AM

10. Yeah, there are a lot of Minnesotans that are proud of their state's civil war heritage.

Minnesota was the first state to send volunteers to the Union army. Granted the confederate cancer has metastasized everywhere in this country, but for the folks in Minnesota who do care about the civil war, praising the confederates is not going to go over well.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Minnesota_Infantry_Regiment

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:19 AM

11. Wait, a traitor to the United States admires a guy who fought against

the United States? Get out!!

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:20 AM

12. And the MAGATs would have won in Dumbkirk

Had their bigger ones not sunk their smaller ones

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:22 AM

13. General Jack D Ripper would have won the War of Jenkins' Ear...

...if not for the Battle of Bowling Green, and its unfortunate massacre...

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:23 AM

14. I always thought siding with the enemy was treason

That is all

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:23 AM

15. I would have won the Lottery is I only had picked the right numbers.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:26 AM

16. Hey don't forget the Bowling Green Massacre!

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:27 AM

18. Lee is rather overrated...

He was a great counter puncher, and a good tactician, but with one exception any time he tried to take the strategic initiative, it bombed on him. He gets credit for being audacious, but he inevitably won more often because of ineptitude and indecision from the Union generals, who were usually picked for political reasons, not for their abilities.

Most of Lee's "brilliant" moves were made out of desperation, from being outmaneuvered strategically and having to make desperate decisions to rectify situations. His best offensive campaign, in the Seven Days Battles, was capped by a disastrous and costly frontal assault at Malvern Hill, which wouldn't have been quite so damning if he hadn't repeated the mistake at Gettysburg with Pickett's Charge, that glorious excercise in futility that is marked for some reason as the high water mark of the Confederacy. What it marked was the final death knell of Napoleonic tactics in an era of rifled muskets and massed artillery.

Lee? Character issues aside, he is rather overrated IMHO.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:30 AM

20. Now tell us about Stalingrad, Uncle Donald!

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:31 AM

21. 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment

The 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment was the very first group of volunteers the Union received in response to the Souths assault of Fort Sumter at the beginning of the United States Civil War. Minnesota's Governor Ramsey offered 1000 men to Lincoln immediately upon learning of the attack on the fort. He just happened to be in Washington when the news broke. Those men volunteered for a three-year commitment (1861-64) which was much longer than other states. During combat actions, the 1st Minnesota sustained substantial casualties at the battles of First Bull Run 20%[1] and Antietam (28%)[1] and a staggering 82%[1]at the Battle of Gettysburg. It is most noted for its actions on the second day there.

At a dire moment, Major General Winfield Scott Hancock, commander of II Corps ordered the First Minnesota to charge into a Southern brigade. They were outnumbered by at least 5 to 1, but it was Gen. Hancock's only option to buy time for reinforcements to arrive. One survivor stated afterward that he expected the advance to result in "death or wounds to us all..."[2] The regiment immediately obeyed the order. Gen. Hancock was amazed at the unit discipline, valor, and the tremendous casualties taken in carrying out his order. This action preserved the Union's position on the Ridge exactly as he had hoped.

Post war, both General Hancock and U.S. President Calvin Coolidge were unrestrained in their praise for the actions of the 1st Minnesota. Gen. Hancock, who witnessed the action firsthand, placed its heroism highest in the annals of war:[3] "No soldiers on any field, in this or any other country ever displayed grander heroism". Gen. Hancock ascribed unsurpassed gallantry to the famed assault stating: "There is no more gallant deed recorded in history".[4] Emphasizing the critical nature of the circumstances on July 2 at Gettysburg, President Coolidge considered: "Colonel Colvill and those eight companies of the First Minnesota are entitled to rank as the saviors of their country".[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Minnesota_Infantry_Regiment

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:32 AM

22. This an irrelevant topic to bring up.

He might as well be talking about his favorite color or how he likes his morning coffee. He is not talking about issues important to Americans right now.

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Response to Zing Zing Zingbah (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:36 AM

26. agreed ! nt

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:35 AM

25. "They're ripping down our history?"

Such as the great history of the C.S.A. fighting a war of treason in order to violently destroy
the United States so that human beings can be kept as slaves because God made them less
human as white people.

This is just Trump reaching out to his klan/racist dumb fuck base.


BTW Trump knows nothing about the Civil War does he even know about Antietam and if McCellan
had followed Lee after that battle the war could have been over or that Grant had won control
of the Mississippi River all the way to New Orleans and with that and a naval blockade the south
was doomed.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:39 AM

28. Lee should have never gotten into the Gettysburg engagement, and one of his leading ...

generals, Longstreet was against the entire engagement to begin with, not to get caught in a meat grinder as they were w/ Gettysburg, which was kind of the South's last gasps in trying to bring the war to an early and quick end, by winning Gettysburg and then threatening Wash. DC or the like to force an early end to the war.

Lee got greedy and cocky, with the first successful minor engagements of Gettysburg and thus, decided to stay in position and fight the Union (despite the poor positioning of his forces). By then, the North by then finally got rid of the political generals (worthless) and finally replaced their generals w/ actual soldiers who knew how to fight. The North was actually in a good position and Lee walked right into it, despite Longstreet's misgivings.

trump should leave his stupid comments to himself and leave the civil war questions to Newt G. who's actually wrote some books on the engagement(s).

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:41 AM

29. I would have won the lottery except for those bastards 12 and 39.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 11:52 AM

31. I'm more worried that he has rallies every single day

Every day, he has a rally

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:17 PM

35. Hitler wannabe says what?

F*ck you Trump, you Nazi twit.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon Sep 21, 2020, 12:18 PM

36. The Titanic's first voyage would have gone great

if it wasn't for that damn iceberg.

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