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canetoad

(17,090 posts)
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:15 AM Oct 2020

Obama Knows

President Barack Obama says if the US followed Australia and introduced mandatory voting at elections it would have a transformative impact on America.


If Obama gets it, why do so many DUers refuse to consider that compulsory voting is a systemic advantage and not a disadvantage to democrats?

I've ran this very question past my Du friends almost every election for twenty years. You still haven't given me a plausible answer. Does it somehow impinge on your 'freeedoms' to have to vote?

We in Australia, just take it as a civic duty that we need to perform. There is no GOTV money, no filthy tricks to discourage voting. Instead, our state and federal governments make it as easy as possible to vote because it is expected of all citizens.

Why are you so resistent to mandatory vote?

“We really are the only advanced democracy on earth that systematically and purposely makes it really hard for people to vote,” Mr Obama said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/10/barack-obama-praises-australias-mandatory-voting-rules
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Obama Knows (Original Post) canetoad Oct 2020 OP
You're not gonna get any argument from me. Volaris Oct 2020 #1
Thanks buddy canetoad Oct 2020 #2
Because they've lived in fear for 40 years HelpImSurrounded Oct 2020 #3
Here are the things in the US system that mandatory voting would eliminate: canetoad Oct 2020 #9
I don't object to mandatory voting in principle Mariana Oct 2020 #4
Ok, thanks canetoad Oct 2020 #6
perhaps the Constitution's biggest error is omitting responsibilities that go along with rights. uncle ray Oct 2020 #29
It seems to me there's a big difference... regnaD kciN Oct 2020 #5
Good points canetoad Oct 2020 #7
Here's why ... NanceGreggs Oct 2020 #8
Good points Nance canetoad Oct 2020 #10
As I pointed out ... NanceGreggs Oct 2020 #17
I really find it astounding that for a person who has been living in Canada for years madinmaryland Oct 2020 #37
I am a US citizen ... NanceGreggs Oct 2020 #38
Ermm... advanced? ananda Oct 2020 #11
Ummmm - context canetoad Oct 2020 #12
Lol ananda Oct 2020 #18
Cause Murica ? Freedum ! That said, it would help if it were made far OnDoutside Oct 2020 #13
Yeah, I've never got the Tuesday thing canetoad Oct 2020 #14
It's definitely a legacy thing....in the UK and Ireland, Thursday has OnDoutside Oct 2020 #27
I think it had to do with bars being closed on Tuesday FakeNoose Oct 2020 #32
Rather than mandating that everyone vote, ranked choice voting bbgrunt Oct 2020 #15
It helps canetoad Oct 2020 #16
We can and should do both. Sherman A1 Oct 2020 #20
Agreed Sherman A1 Oct 2020 #19
How is it enforced in Australia? patricia92243 Oct 2020 #21
You have to pay a fine. Not much, but money's money. ancianita Oct 2020 #25
Agree 100% Joinfortmill Oct 2020 #22
I've asked my 25-year Australian family about their mandatory voting. Aussies know, too. ancianita Oct 2020 #23
KnR to read tomorrow! Hekate Oct 2020 #24
The racists and women haters in the US do not want people to vote malaise Oct 2020 #26
How is mandatory voting in Australia enforced? sarge43 Oct 2020 #28
It's always been mandatory for me. panader0 Oct 2020 #30
This is a free country so no. Demsrule86 Oct 2020 #31
LOL, people freak out about masks, imagine forcing them to vote. nt USALiberal Oct 2020 #33
I'm of two minds on the issue of mandatory voting. crickets Oct 2020 #34
Surprisingly, our Constitution is rather silent on voting... Wounded Bear Oct 2020 #35
How about a tax credit for voting or a food/rent voucher? n/t tormadjax Oct 2020 #36

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
2. Thanks buddy
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:26 AM
Oct 2020

It's never a good look to criticize the system of another country, but I'm aghast at the voter suppression scams being used in the US.

All that could be solved by mandatory voting, where t he government WANTS citizens to vote.

HelpImSurrounded

(441 posts)
3. Because they've lived in fear for 40 years
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:34 AM
Oct 2020

The Reagan election and subsequent 49 states to 1 landslide re-election has traumatized democrats for two generations.

They have a deep seated belief that they are in the minority and that belief has been cemented by 40 years of right wing gaslighting. ( e.g. the Moral Majority ).

You can see it in our primaries how the issue of "electability" rises to overpower every other issue yet those candidates have no better chance of winning than other strategies.

I'm with you. Mandatory voting. Eliminate the electoral college or enact the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Enact ranked choice voting, etc.

But I'm sure that paragraph will attract a lot of pushback.

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
9. Here are the things in the US system that mandatory voting would eliminate:
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:03 AM
Oct 2020

Vote supression and the associated costs

Intimidation at polls

To an extent - the influence of money in an election. Citizens United is pure destruction of a democratic system but it could be slightly mitigated by mandatory voting.

A belief in a fair, balanced ebb and flow in the long term political outlook. In a two party system, it's unrealistic for one side to expect to 'rule' forever. If both left and right sides of politics were reasonable and centrist, the system would balance and re-balance itself in a way that executed no lasting harm on the fabric of society.

Thanks for your response and welcome to DU.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
4. I don't object to mandatory voting in principle
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:35 AM
Oct 2020

but I don't see how it could be legal in the US. No one is obliged to exercise their rights - for example, the freedom of speech doesn't mean you are required to speak. So, I think it would require a Constitutional Amendment. The right to vote would have to be eliminated, and an obligation to vote put in its place.

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
6. Ok, thanks
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:46 AM
Oct 2020

And I see your argument.

But - it would virtually eliminate vote supression, so why is there no *will to have this made law?

uncle ray

(3,153 posts)
29. perhaps the Constitution's biggest error is omitting responsibilities that go along with rights.
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 09:40 AM
Oct 2020

in some cases the responsibilities are implied, but that's not enough. people need a direct connection: these are your rights, and these are your responsibilities to maintain your rights.

regnaD kciN

(26,035 posts)
5. It seems to me there's a big difference...
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:44 AM
Oct 2020

...between making it easy to vote and making it mandatory to do so.

On the one hand, maybe, if people knew they had to cast a ballot, those who normally sit things out would feel a responsibility to educate themselves so they could make good choices.

On the other hand, I see no sign that mandatory voting has brought a wave of progressivism to Australia, either. Although they certainly haven’t had their own Trump, P.M.s like John Howard and Tony Abbott strike me as pretty standard conservatives – maybe more like Mitt or Jeb! than 45, but still pretty much mainstream Republicans.

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
7. Good points
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:54 AM
Oct 2020

On educating oneself to vote - makes no difference if its voluntary or mandatory. True democracy - everyone has a vote.

Yeah, we've had our right-wingers. Howard lasted until he didn't. His popularity was in a large part attributed to his decisiveness on the banning of weapons. It was a good decision, whatever party he represented.



NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
8. Here's why ...
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 03:57 AM
Oct 2020

I live in Canada. A year ago, I was at a dinner party with friends, and when they started discussing Canadian politics, I went outside for a smoke. I explained that I took zero interest in Canadian politics, and therefore had nothing to contribute to the conversation.

One of my GFs said, “But you at least vote, don’t you!?!” I explained that no, I couldn’t vote as I am a US citizen, not a Canadian citizen.

I didn’t want to embarrass her by asking the obvious question: Based on the fact that I just told you I know nothing about Canadian politics, why would you want someone like me to vote?

On what basis would I cast a ballot? This guy looks nice? She sounded sincere in her TV ads? Or how about just checking off boxes on the ballot randomly?

In other words, I am apolitical when it comes to Canadian politics. And there are many people in the US who are apolitical about American politics. They don’t pay attention to politics at all – and I don’t want people being forced into voting who have absolutely no idea of who they’re voting for, what that candidate’s record is, or what he/she represents.

We already have too many low-info people voting. What we don’t need is no-info voters added to the mix.


canetoad

(17,090 posts)
10. Good points Nance
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:14 AM
Oct 2020

Are you entitled to vote in Canada?

See, if this was me and I was legally able to vote, I'd be voting idealogically, rather than on particular issues. Of course, that would always be for the left-wing candidate.

I see this argument frequently; 'Do we need low info voters?' Well, whether you like it or not, you have them. If everyone votes, there are also many *low info voters who will vote left wing. I find that argument a bit elitist - a citizen is a citizen and has a right to vote and I'm not sure it helps anyone by classifying them as low-info or not.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
17. As I pointed out ...
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:56 AM
Oct 2020

... no, I can't vote in Canada. Nor would I, if I could.

I repeat: I know nothing about Canadian politics - I don't know who's left wing or right. I don't know what any of the parties stand for.

And there are US citizens out there who are as ignorant of US politics as I am of Canadian politics. I don't want those people voting - any more than a Canadian should want me to vote in their elections based on that ignorance.



madinmaryland

(64,920 posts)
37. I really find it astounding that for a person who has been living in Canada for years
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 06:25 PM
Oct 2020

does not know and worse yet does not care about how Canada is governed. I have read your commentaries on DU for years, but this really takes the cake.

We appreciate your concern in regards to American politics, but the fact you are oblivious to the politics and policies of the place you live makes me think twice about what you commentate about on DU.

Stunnedinohio.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
38. I am a US citizen ...
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 06:40 PM
Oct 2020

I follow US politics, contribute to US candidates, and I VOTE in US elections. If you want to dismiss my participation in my own country's politics as mere 'concern', that's your prerogative.





canetoad

(17,090 posts)
12. Ummmm - context
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:19 AM
Oct 2020

On edit; OK I get it. Sorry.

That is the way the US paints itself. Only in an *extremely advanced system could Donald Trump become president.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
13. Cause Murica ? Freedum ! That said, it would help if it were made far
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:25 AM
Oct 2020

easier to actually vote, not least automatic registration and having elections on a weekend, or special holiday.

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
14. Yeah, I've never got the Tuesday thing
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:34 AM
Oct 2020

Except that *executive gentlemen could take time off whenever they wanted. Fuck the hourly waiter/ess who couldn't afford the time off.

Seems to me the whole US system revolves around discouraging votes whereas ours encourages and makes easy to vote.

OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
27. It's definitely a legacy thing....in the UK and Ireland, Thursday has
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 06:50 AM
Oct 2020

traditionally been election day, in fact the US is way ahead in terms of early voting, we only have early voting (the day before) for the small islands off the coast

FakeNoose

(32,356 posts)
32. I think it had to do with bars being closed on Tuesday
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 10:03 AM
Oct 2020

Once upon a time - this might go back to the days of Tammany Hall politicking - drinks were bought for people in bars. Subsequently the politicos who bought the drinks walked the "voters" down to the polls and reminded them to vote for their buddy. It was rather shameful, and I'm certain the Dems were just as guilty of it as the Repukes.

So before Prohibition, it became necessary to hold elections on days when bars were closed - on Tuesdays for example. The first Tuesday of November was reserved for national elections, however state and local elections were scheduled for Tuesdays in other months.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
15. Rather than mandating that everyone vote, ranked choice voting
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:38 AM
Oct 2020

might be a better Aussie custom to emulate. While it might not eliminate voter suppression, it would at least allow for a voter to prefer a party platform outside the duopoly that we have without essentially causing a third party to become a spoiler party. Then we wouldn't have to vote shame those who prefer a different platform OR worry about the votes of those who take no interest in politics.

canetoad

(17,090 posts)
16. It helps
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 04:50 AM
Oct 2020

In that the least disliked candidate often wins, but does nothing to address the problem of voter supression - which I'm starting to think is the biggest scam being perpetuated on US citizens.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
19. Agreed
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 05:47 AM
Oct 2020

Compulsory voting 🗳 to me is a huge plus in my opinion and it should be implemented as soon as possible.

ancianita

(35,814 posts)
23. I've asked my 25-year Australian family about their mandatory voting. Aussies know, too.
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 06:01 AM
Oct 2020

They highly endorse it for the important benefits already pointed out here.

They say it stands to reason that if you want a democracy, then democratic participation is duty.
They say that, of course, no voting is 100% informed (the whole horse-to-water argument), but almost all Aussies want to at least make their time and effort count by at least asking about candidates's names and acquainting themselves with the issues.

The act itself, they say, becomes a normal part of their lives, and that not surprisingly, political interest grows the more people vote.

The US has registered voters who've been faithfully ignorant since Reagan, college or no college. And now with the noise machine going full tilt, those who do want to be informed are still undermined.

IMHO, mandatory voting would likely expand the informed voter pool which can continue to damp down the conspiratorial pool.

Yes, Obama knows.

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
28. How is mandatory voting in Australia enforced?
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 07:01 AM
Oct 2020

I'm assuming there's a carrot and stick incentive in place.

The US has ten times the population of Australia. Rough estimate: 300M of voting age in the US. Let's say 10% of them decide "Don't wanna; ain't gonna." Will they be fined, jailed, voting rights revoked? Who does the tracking, federal or states? Will this apply to all elections, from municipalities to states to federal?

Making it mandatory to vote isn't going to change the difficulty to vote. That will just ensure that a lot of people have "broken the law". How will mandatory voting stop "money is speech" and the dirty tricks? If anything it will give the creeps even more incentive to do their voodoo.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
30. It's always been mandatory for me.
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 09:48 AM
Oct 2020

I was a bit worried when my ballot took over a week to travel the thirty miles to the county
building in Bisbee, Az. from the drop box here. But I checked on line again yesterday and it has been
received. I think the Aussie mandatory thing would be great. All the best cane.

crickets

(25,896 posts)
34. I'm of two minds on the issue of mandatory voting.
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 12:30 PM
Oct 2020

On the one hand, everyone has to file taxes, so why shouldn't everyone have to vote? It's a very glib way of putting it, but it is a point. There are times when citizens in a 'free country' are compelled to do things by their government, and they do them. Is it so bad to require voting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Arguments_against

On the other hand, if compulsory voting seems a step too far, what about compulsory registration? One of the hurdles to voting is getting registered, and some people do find that a big hurdle. If everyone went onto the voter rolls automatically at age eighteen, there's one less roadblock to getting people to vote. There would be details that vary state by state, as some states have closed primaries requiring party declarations. There also might be serious privacy concerns. This could be a backdoor route to the national ID database that conservatives and Republicans have been salivating over for decades. Along with Bob Barr (of all people) and the ACLU, I've long agreed that national ID is an idea rife with problems.

https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards
https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/national-id/real-id

Australia manages to have compulsory voting while not requiring any sort of national ID, so it can work. Any Aussies who could weigh in on how this gets done would be appreciated.

eta, though personal stories from Australia would be great -
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/world/australia/compulsory-voting.html
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/mar/08/how-australias-compulsory-voting-saved-it-from-trumpism

One way to make voter registration easier is to fold in the process with application for driver's licenses, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993 ["Motor Voter" - thanks, Bill C.!]
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/automatic-voter-registration.aspx

Other ways to get better turnout without requiring voting include a national voting holiday and/or weekend, and as seen this election, having vote by mail available in all 50 states.

It doesn't seem that there is one magic fix to getting more people to vote, but a multi-pronged strategy might be the way to go. Any other ideas?

Thoughts?

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
35. Surprisingly, our Constitution is rather silent on voting...
Sat Oct 24, 2020, 12:37 PM
Oct 2020

It barely mentions citizenship beyond some very specific entries and a couple of amendments.

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