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President Barack Obama says if the US followed Australia and introduced mandatory voting at elections it would have a transformative impact on America.
If Obama gets it, why do so many DUers refuse to consider that compulsory voting is a systemic advantage and not a disadvantage to democrats?
I've ran this very question past my Du friends almost every election for twenty years. You still haven't given me a plausible answer. Does it somehow impinge on your 'freeedoms' to have to vote?
We in Australia, just take it as a civic duty that we need to perform. There is no GOTV money, no filthy tricks to discourage voting. Instead, our state and federal governments make it as easy as possible to vote because it is expected of all citizens.
Why are you so resistent to mandatory vote?We really are the only advanced democracy on earth that systematically and purposely makes it really hard for people to vote, Mr Obama said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/10/barack-obama-praises-australias-mandatory-voting-rules
Volaris
(10,260 posts)canetoad
(17,090 posts)It's never a good look to criticize the system of another country, but I'm aghast at the voter suppression scams being used in the US.
All that could be solved by mandatory voting, where t he government WANTS citizens to vote.
HelpImSurrounded
(441 posts)The Reagan election and subsequent 49 states to 1 landslide re-election has traumatized democrats for two generations.
They have a deep seated belief that they are in the minority and that belief has been cemented by 40 years of right wing gaslighting. ( e.g. the Moral Majority ).
You can see it in our primaries how the issue of "electability" rises to overpower every other issue yet those candidates have no better chance of winning than other strategies.
I'm with you. Mandatory voting. Eliminate the electoral college or enact the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Enact ranked choice voting, etc.
But I'm sure that paragraph will attract a lot of pushback.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)Vote supression and the associated costs
Intimidation at polls
To an extent - the influence of money in an election. Citizens United is pure destruction of a democratic system but it could be slightly mitigated by mandatory voting.
A belief in a fair, balanced ebb and flow in the long term political outlook. In a two party system, it's unrealistic for one side to expect to 'rule' forever. If both left and right sides of politics were reasonable and centrist, the system would balance and re-balance itself in a way that executed no lasting harm on the fabric of society.
Thanks for your response and welcome to DU.
Mariana
(14,849 posts)but I don't see how it could be legal in the US. No one is obliged to exercise their rights - for example, the freedom of speech doesn't mean you are required to speak. So, I think it would require a Constitutional Amendment. The right to vote would have to be eliminated, and an obligation to vote put in its place.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)And I see your argument.
But - it would virtually eliminate vote supression, so why is there no *will to have this made law?
uncle ray
(3,153 posts)in some cases the responsibilities are implied, but that's not enough. people need a direct connection: these are your rights, and these are your responsibilities to maintain your rights.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)...between making it easy to vote and making it mandatory to do so.
On the one hand, maybe, if people knew they had to cast a ballot, those who normally sit things out would feel a responsibility to educate themselves so they could make good choices.
On the other hand, I see no sign that mandatory voting has brought a wave of progressivism to Australia, either. Although they certainly havent had their own Trump, P.M.s like John Howard and Tony Abbott strike me as pretty standard conservatives maybe more like Mitt or Jeb! than 45, but still pretty much mainstream Republicans.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)On educating oneself to vote - makes no difference if its voluntary or mandatory. True democracy - everyone has a vote.
Yeah, we've had our right-wingers. Howard lasted until he didn't. His popularity was in a large part attributed to his decisiveness on the banning of weapons. It was a good decision, whatever party he represented.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)I live in Canada. A year ago, I was at a dinner party with friends, and when they started discussing Canadian politics, I went outside for a smoke. I explained that I took zero interest in Canadian politics, and therefore had nothing to contribute to the conversation.
One of my GFs said, But you at least vote, dont you!?! I explained that no, I couldnt vote as I am a US citizen, not a Canadian citizen.
I didnt want to embarrass her by asking the obvious question: Based on the fact that I just told you I know nothing about Canadian politics, why would you want someone like me to vote?
On what basis would I cast a ballot? This guy looks nice? She sounded sincere in her TV ads? Or how about just checking off boxes on the ballot randomly?
In other words, I am apolitical when it comes to Canadian politics. And there are many people in the US who are apolitical about American politics. They dont pay attention to politics at all and I dont want people being forced into voting who have absolutely no idea of who theyre voting for, what that candidates record is, or what he/she represents.
We already have too many low-info people voting. What we dont need is no-info voters added to the mix.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)Are you entitled to vote in Canada?
See, if this was me and I was legally able to vote, I'd be voting idealogically, rather than on particular issues. Of course, that would always be for the left-wing candidate.
I see this argument frequently; 'Do we need low info voters?' Well, whether you like it or not, you have them. If everyone votes, there are also many *low info voters who will vote left wing. I find that argument a bit elitist - a citizen is a citizen and has a right to vote and I'm not sure it helps anyone by classifying them as low-info or not.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... no, I can't vote in Canada. Nor would I, if I could.
I repeat: I know nothing about Canadian politics - I don't know who's left wing or right. I don't know what any of the parties stand for.
And there are US citizens out there who are as ignorant of US politics as I am of Canadian politics. I don't want those people voting - any more than a Canadian should want me to vote in their elections based on that ignorance.
madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)does not know and worse yet does not care about how Canada is governed. I have read your commentaries on DU for years, but this really takes the cake.
We appreciate your concern in regards to American politics, but the fact you are oblivious to the politics and policies of the place you live makes me think twice about what you commentate about on DU.
Stunnedinohio.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)I follow US politics, contribute to US candidates, and I VOTE in US elections. If you want to dismiss my participation in my own country's politics as mere 'concern', that's your prerogative.
ananda
(28,783 posts)???
canetoad
(17,090 posts)On edit; OK I get it. Sorry.
That is the way the US paints itself. Only in an *extremely advanced system could Donald Trump become president.
Exactly.
OnDoutside
(19,908 posts)easier to actually vote, not least automatic registration and having elections on a weekend, or special holiday.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)Except that *executive gentlemen could take time off whenever they wanted. Fuck the hourly waiter/ess who couldn't afford the time off.
Seems to me the whole US system revolves around discouraging votes whereas ours encourages and makes easy to vote.
OnDoutside
(19,908 posts)traditionally been election day, in fact the US is way ahead in terms of early voting, we only have early voting (the day before) for the small islands off the coast
FakeNoose
(32,356 posts)Once upon a time - this might go back to the days of Tammany Hall politicking - drinks were bought for people in bars. Subsequently the politicos who bought the drinks walked the "voters" down to the polls and reminded them to vote for their buddy. It was rather shameful, and I'm certain the Dems were just as guilty of it as the Repukes.
So before Prohibition, it became necessary to hold elections on days when bars were closed - on Tuesdays for example. The first Tuesday of November was reserved for national elections, however state and local elections were scheduled for Tuesdays in other months.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)might be a better Aussie custom to emulate. While it might not eliminate voter suppression, it would at least allow for a voter to prefer a party platform outside the duopoly that we have without essentially causing a third party to become a spoiler party. Then we wouldn't have to vote shame those who prefer a different platform OR worry about the votes of those who take no interest in politics.
canetoad
(17,090 posts)In that the least disliked candidate often wins, but does nothing to address the problem of voter supression - which I'm starting to think is the biggest scam being perpetuated on US citizens.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Compulsory voting and ranked choice.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Compulsory voting 🗳 to me is a huge plus in my opinion and it should be implemented as soon as possible.
patricia92243
(12,590 posts)ancianita
(35,814 posts)Joinfortmill
(14,247 posts)ancianita
(35,814 posts)They highly endorse it for the important benefits already pointed out here.
They say it stands to reason that if you want a democracy, then democratic participation is duty.
They say that, of course, no voting is 100% informed (the whole horse-to-water argument), but almost all Aussies want to at least make their time and effort count by at least asking about candidates's names and acquainting themselves with the issues.
The act itself, they say, becomes a normal part of their lives, and that not surprisingly, political interest grows the more people vote.
The US has registered voters who've been faithfully ignorant since Reagan, college or no college. And now with the noise machine going full tilt, those who do want to be informed are still undermined.
IMHO, mandatory voting would likely expand the informed voter pool which can continue to damp down the conspiratorial pool.
Yes, Obama knows.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)malaise
(267,827 posts)Australia has the best model
sarge43
(28,939 posts)I'm assuming there's a carrot and stick incentive in place.
The US has ten times the population of Australia. Rough estimate: 300M of voting age in the US. Let's say 10% of them decide "Don't wanna; ain't gonna." Will they be fined, jailed, voting rights revoked? Who does the tracking, federal or states? Will this apply to all elections, from municipalities to states to federal?
Making it mandatory to vote isn't going to change the difficulty to vote. That will just ensure that a lot of people have "broken the law". How will mandatory voting stop "money is speech" and the dirty tricks? If anything it will give the creeps even more incentive to do their voodoo.
panader0
(25,816 posts)I was a bit worried when my ballot took over a week to travel the thirty miles to the county
building in Bisbee, Az. from the drop box here. But I checked on line again yesterday and it has been
received. I think the Aussie mandatory thing would be great. All the best cane.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)crickets
(25,896 posts)On the one hand, everyone has to file taxes, so why shouldn't everyone have to vote? It's a very glib way of putting it, but it is a point. There are times when citizens in a 'free country' are compelled to do things by their government, and they do them. Is it so bad to require voting?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Arguments_against
On the other hand, if compulsory voting seems a step too far, what about compulsory registration? One of the hurdles to voting is getting registered, and some people do find that a big hurdle. If everyone went onto the voter rolls automatically at age eighteen, there's one less roadblock to getting people to vote. There would be details that vary state by state, as some states have closed primaries requiring party declarations. There also might be serious privacy concerns. This could be a backdoor route to the national ID database that conservatives and Republicans have been salivating over for decades. Along with Bob Barr (of all people) and the ACLU, I've long agreed that national ID is an idea rife with problems.
https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards
https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/national-id/real-id
Australia manages to have compulsory voting while not requiring any sort of national ID, so it can work. Any Aussies who could weigh in on how this gets done would be appreciated.
eta, though personal stories from Australia would be great -
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/world/australia/compulsory-voting.html
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/mar/08/how-australias-compulsory-voting-saved-it-from-trumpism
One way to make voter registration easier is to fold in the process with application for driver's licenses, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993 ["Motor Voter" - thanks, Bill C.!]
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/automatic-voter-registration.aspx
Other ways to get better turnout without requiring voting include a national voting holiday and/or weekend, and as seen this election, having vote by mail available in all 50 states.
It doesn't seem that there is one magic fix to getting more people to vote, but a multi-pronged strategy might be the way to go. Any other ideas?
Thoughts?
Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)It barely mentions citizenship beyond some very specific entries and a couple of amendments.