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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre there any polls that show "defund the police" was reason for down ballot polling being so off?
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Where there ANY dem pols running on support of defunding the police? If not then how did ... slogan a relative very few people in protest were advocating get attached to the democratic party but racist slogans like White Power not get assigned to the republican party?
There were few if any dem pols that were running on defunding the police.
We shouldn't put up with that shit because there's no polling now showing "defund the police" is the reason for such upside down aggregate polling for dems that went republican down ballot.
BULLSHIT !!!
This "defund the police" reasoning for not winning so many projected down ballot races is an excuse for either the voting systems being off or the polling being off in earth splitting horrid ways.
Both can be true but there's no doubt both aren't probable to be true but dammit we know at least ONE is true.
We either have earth splitting horrid polling SCIENCE in this country that NO OTHER COUNTRY puts up with
or
Voting systems are horridly Earth splittingly off in this country that no other country puts up with.
For 20 years the majority "close" races go to Republicans during state wide and presidential elections but off years make it harder to screw with either polling or the voting machines cause it might be too many different systems to screw with.
***SOMETHINGS WRONG !!!***, I could care less WHEN the something wrong happens it's happening.
We can make ourselves feel better by blaming a stupid slogan vs our polling or voting systems but that's not being honest about the earth splitting horrid polling that NO OTHER COUNTRY puts up with for so long tilted towards one party in this country.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)"Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called the proposed $1 billion cut to the New York Police Department's budget "a disingenuous illusion" and said it is does not go far enough to defund the police.
"Defunding police means defunding police. It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education's budget so that the exact same police remain in schools," Ocasio-Cortez said in a statement."
https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-says-nypds-1-billion-budget-cut-doesnt-go-far-enough-defund-police-1514523
Perhaps she wasn't explicitly running on it, but it was certainly a topic of conversation. She now seems to be running from the phrase, which is a smart move politically.
As someone noted in another thread, Cora Bush run openly on it and won.
It's an idiotic slogan, one of the worst in memory. We should probably blame the people who thought it was a good idea for making it an easy target for the GOP. They obviously and overtly falsely linked many politicians to it by association, but they do that with everything. We really should know better by now.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... as a whole
Claustrum
(4,845 posts)the attack ads from the right painted every democrats running as "defunding the police". I try to stay out of this conversation but I think we, as a party, need to do a lot better with our slogans.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Pisces
(5,592 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Pisces
(5,592 posts)Many Dems were asked about this and they were chanting Defund the Police at protests. Hell The View was arguing about and they asked every politician on their show if they agreed with the stance. It became a mainstream idea. We do need better messaging. This was scary to many because in their minds it meant abolish the police.
We can be mad about it and argue but this was the perception and therefore the reality to many
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)I'm in the category of Americans who can't afford to make my own perceptions a reality, I have to do with facts, math science etc.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)This is a very common phrase not one I made up for your benefit.
Lee Atwater
It was many years later, in the 1980's to be exact, that this debate took on a whole new meaning when the American political strategist Lee Atwater said simply and succinctly: perception is reality.Jul 16, 2017
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... neither is "Pink Gators for my Detroit players" among those who don't know Brooklyn rappers for instance.
I'm asking for facts, do you have any related to this subject?
Thx in advance
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)Nimble_Idea
(1,803 posts)R B Garr
(16,920 posts)That slogan was everywhere and constantly discussed. It was part of every demonstration, every discussion of what the protestors wanted. The demonstrations got constant media coverage.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... doesn't explain how down ballot races were so off in 16 and 20?
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)of the Rep platform. It played out with Law and Order being the answer to Defund the Police.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)R B Garr
(16,920 posts)candidates...? Which is why we have to be more careful with such disastrous phrases. But the phrase did originate with the protestors and there were months of visuals that reinforced where it came from.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... wasted 50 million on a SC race that wasn't even close to be looked at not less invested in.
It's been this twisted for this long and no other country puts up with it
AmericanCanuck
(1,102 posts)mathematic
(1,430 posts)You were literally asking if ANY dems were running on support of it and the poster showed that AOC supported it and she even clarified that defund the police doesn't mean anything other than defund the police.
Now, you're moving the goalposts because you don't like the answer. Why don't you like the answer? Are you under the impression that "defund the police" is a good slogan and popular idea?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... the police
Raven123
(4,716 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)yardwork
(61,418 posts)Mariana
(14,849 posts)Those people were never going to vote for Democrats in the first place.
RobinA
(9,878 posts)but that nonsense was spread far and wide. I don't know how many people I heard, in real life, not on the Internet, say that Biden was a Socialist or has "socialist ways."
oswaldactedalone
(3,489 posts)But Republicans dont run against Democrats, they run against the lies they tell about Democrats. My theory is that a protester got excited or indignant during the Floyd protests and made up a poster that said defund the police. Somehow that became a meme that the Republicans knew they could use.
Within a minute of seeing that sign, I told my wife that that is a disaster for Democrats and said the same thing here shortly after.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... shouldn't put up with that shit because there's no polling now saying that's the reason for such upside down aggregate polling for dems that went republican.
yardwork
(61,418 posts)It was not part of the Democratic Party's platform, but it was and is a goal of some organized leftwing groups.
Republicans ran with that. People in rural areas were frightened by the images of urban protests they saw on TV and the internet - some of them fake and manipulated images. It's pretty easy to frighten conservative rural people right now. They live in a paranoid bubble.
I believe that this played a big part in Democrats doing less well than expected. I saw this on social media.
Bettie
(15,998 posts)"approved" messages?
OR should there be no protests, in order to ensure that Republicans have nothing to use against people? Well, they'll make shit up anyway.
The fact is, Republicans can turn "Hello, how are you?" into an ad campaign about Democrats not respecting privacy if they've a mind to.
Maybe we need to work on counter-messaging. When they start in on "they want to defund the police" we put out vivid examples of police brutality caught on tape. It is there, it happens on a very regular basis. I get that right wingers like that, maybe those idiot white women get off on it too.
But, it is virtually impossible to tell protestors "don't say anything that might upset the right wingers!"
The fact is, our side needs to get better (and less polite) about messaging.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Celerity
(42,666 posts)Du Bois wrote about "abolition-democracy", which advocated for the removal of institutions that were rooted in racist and repressive practices, including prisons, convict leasing, and white police forces.
The End of Policing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Policing
The End of Policing is a 2017 book by the American sociologist Alex S. Vitale. The author argues for the eventual abolition of the police, to be replaced variously by decriminalization or with non-law enforcement approaches, depending on the crime. Vitale argues that the function of police is to uphold inequalities of class, gender, race or sexuality. The book was met with mixed critical reception by academics and reviewers, including praise for Vitale's writing style and level of research, but criticism that his suggested political approaches needed further development. The book was variously criticized as not arguing against all forms of policing, or as failing to acknowledge research which suggests that police reduce the rate of crime.
Synopsis
The book is about police in the contemporary United States and the nature of policing. Vitale argues that the purpose of police is not to deal with instances of social ills, but to uphold inequalities in society on the axes of class, gender, race and sexuality. Historically, Vitale writes, the police have facilitated slavery and colonialism and suppressed workers' rights movements. He believes that the conditions for crime arise due to the implementation of conservative policies such as support for a trickle-down economics model, austerity, redlining and reduction of trade unions. Topics covered by the book include the criminalization of the mentally ill, homeless people and sex workers; policing of schools; the war on drugs; and border policing by the police, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the military and the National Guard.
Vitale believes that policing should be disbanded in full, with decriminalization of some crimes such as sex work and drug usage, and public infrastructure or non-law enforcement approaches for other crimes. For instance, government agencies and private companies could provide homeless people with permanent housing. He recommends drug rehabilitation centres for addicts, improved education and a different employment system, as well as more mental health care availability and open borders.
Vitale writes that police are trained by private companies in highly militarised ways. He says that diversifying the police force or requiring them to wear body cameras will not change the underlying systemic racism in police procedures. On the topic of gangs, he proposes that police and prisons do not deter gang involvement and that gangs are not comprised only of black and Latino people and may not have centralized leadership structures. Analysing the prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. from 1920 to 1933, Vitale writes that the amount of illegal alcohol consumed remained constant even as police increased their numbers of arrests. In the last chapter, Vitale says that the police have always served a political role, giving examples of police forces under dictatorships and U.S. police with regards to the Red Scares, COINTELPRO and surveillance of other social movements.
snip
snowybirdie
(5,191 posts)When that phrase suddenly burst on public consciousness. I never heard an early protestor day it, not any leaders either. I suspect it was coined by our rightie friends and put on social media to go viral and piss off voters. It worked. A classic Roger Stone trick.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... trying to explain the down ballot polling being so earth splittingly off.
yardwork
(61,418 posts)There is some very insidious propaganda being spread through local grassroots left organizations, unfortunately. I don't think the folks organizing new chapters of DSA, for instance, recognize that they are being targeted with propaganda from external sources. That's my opinion.
Response to uponit7771 (Original post)
snowybirdie This message was self-deleted by its author.
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)With no effective response. I don't watch very many political ads because I don't watch commercial TV besides NFL games. I did see it on ad supported Hulu and Youtube though - lots of it.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)The Democratic Party occasionally, more often than Republican Party, stands up for racial justice. And when we do, such as after assassinations or police killings, we get tagged with every protest line that might be heard in demonstrations from coast to coast, and we get tagged with any radical movements afoot in the land. So, in the minds of white Americans, we are the party of looters and we are the anti-police party. If one Dem uses the phrase defund the police, we ALL get tagged with it.
Quite frankly, I think we did as well as we could nationally after all the police killings and wall-to-wall national protests. It had the makings of 1968 all over again ... riots, infighting in the Democratic Party (recriminations from the left against the nominee for favoring the Crime Bill), assertion of law and order mantra by the authoritarian opponent. The difference is ... we won at the top of the ticket and did not defeat ourselves.
Democrats have paid a massive price for standing with black people, and for black people standing with us. Its one of those things Joe Biden talks about when he says What are you willing to lose for? Occasionally we win elections, but more often than not, we lose elections. We just have to keep pushing the racial justice agenda and try not to point fingers and defeat ourselves.
yardwork
(61,418 posts)Any threat to the racist structures is met with concerted pushback. And it will continue until we win.
MaryMagdaline
(6,849 posts)Bettie
(15,998 posts)We need to keep fighting for those whose voices get hidden or stolen from them.
And we need to, as a party, get better at messaging and hitting back, harder when they mischaracterize our messages.
Can't bring a casserole to a (metaphorical) gunfight.
oswaldactedalone
(3,489 posts)Kid Berwyn
(14,651 posts)Democratic candidates, not so much.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... the down ballot polling was so off.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)The repugs are great at messaging lies. And Americans are too ready to gobble those lies up. It really is as simple as that.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... polling was so off
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)People LIE all the time when polled. Anyone who puts any faith in polling hasn't been paying attention.
And on edit, why the HELL would I believe ANYTHING faux news says?
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)Just people's opinions stated as facts We're such freethinkers here one man said it or this person in authority said it and that's all the evidence needed.
Well, one fact we know. The black community was pivotal in this election and "defend the police" was more than a slogan to us. We voted for our lives. As with every issue, some will be for and some against, however, most of us understood what those words meant. Since we are throwing out opinions here, IMO the slogan and the events surrounding the slogan, the BLM movement might have energized some of those new and younger voters to turn out for the Democratic party this election.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)that many Rs may well have split their tickets, voting for Biden, but for Rs down ballot.
Happy Hoosier
(7,081 posts)For just a couple damn months. FFS.
I direct that at both sides... for now.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,081 posts)Hestia
(3,818 posts)that are the problem and have been since Turdblossom forced them on the states. Why do you think Putin Party has been pushing mail-in ballots for decades.
Sorry for thread drift but this will need to be addressed as soon as new administration and the elections work group/committee's are sat. It is the reason Moscow Mitch didn't want money sent for elections - he knows who the machines benefit. How is it statistically possible for the ENTIRE COUNTRY to be split 50/50? No...I think the in person machines votes are way off.
A deep dive will need to be done for mail in balloting 2020 results and looks like it needs to be done nationwide in the future - states are able to handle the massive uptick in ballots, especially with webcams and professionalism beaming to homes worldwide.
Just imagine where we would be today without mail in voting? 75-25 Biden for mail-in. I think it is why Drumpf is so surprised at his loss - Putin told him not to worry, he machines would give him the votes he needed, but the States thwarted it by stepping up and being Grown Assed Adults heading it off at the pass.
In person machines, as they are today, have got to go...
LAS14
(13,749 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts)The kind of divisive, non-logical ideas the Russians and Iranians want to foment on both ends of the political spectrum. Polling is obviously not as reliable as it once was. There are several rational theories about that that need to be explored.
But enough with conspiracy theories about voting systems, OK? We don't need to join the bandwagon of destruction of our norms and institutions.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... time and time again for this long tilted towards one party.
I can say I don't know what's wrong but it would be false on his face to say that everything is okay with the polling
LAS14
(13,749 posts)... so angry at our institutions and norms that they're thumbing their noses at polsters, either by lying (other party or "undecided" as happened in Maine) or by not picking up the phone.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)as we hoped in the Senate...but that was always a long shot. The lack of a stimulus was also blamed on us as well unfairly. I believe it hurt us also. I drive by people getting tossed out of their homes, and see the food lines. And honestly, I feel like shit about this. My hubs got a job in the 11th hour, but the suffering is terrible. People will die. Soon it will be cold and many places the homeless lived at are shut down due to the pandemic. We have families living in their cars or worse. Does anyone believe we will get a better deal after the election unless we get the two senate seats?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)BarackTheVote
(938 posts)This is our opportunity to do so, and we need to take it. That said, I think another explanation, or at least a strong contributing factor is a simple one: a lot of Republicans split their ticket.
I doubt defund the police pushed the needle far enough to actually tilt anyone away from voting for a Democrat down-ticketif they cared that much, theyd have voted for Mr Law and Order, too. But the BLM movement and the police brutality it provoked definitely energized young voters to come to the polls for Bidenit made them realize that fascism wasnt just a threat, but an urgent one. I know plenty of young people who werent planning on voting period until the protests exposed how close to fascism we actually were.
Its a serious miscalculation to disparage the kids who were out there protesting all summer. If they dont show up in 2022, well lose the House.
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)not the policy. What is the point of branding something "defund the police" when it doesn't actually men defunding the police?
It doesn't matter than most didn't explicitly run on the slogan. The GOP tethered the party to it. That and "socialism" was central to their rhetoric against Democrats. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.