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Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:03 PM Nov 2020

We have to accept that there are huge blocs of voters that will never vote for Democrats

The bickering over how the campaigns and elections went is a waste of time. There is no magic messaging that the Democrats can use to convince almost half of the electorate to come over to our side. It's just not happening.

So, what should Democrats do?

First, govern effectively. Joe Biden is the perfect Democrat to do this. Good, strong effective policy prescriptions with broad support in the House may indeed break through in the senate with massive public pressures put Mitch McConnell in the senate.

Second, grow the base from young voters. Biden increased Hillary's advantage among young voters aged 18-29, and this is where the Democrats should focus their attention and efforts. Trump's biggest advantage was among voters 65 and over, most of whom won't be around in 2024.

Combining these two steps, effective governing and appealing to young people, could come in the form of college debt relief and sell it as a stimulus measure to get the economy going post-covid.

Stop focusing on trying to win over voters who believe that you are the devil incarnate. Their hatred of us has move to the irrational stage. The way forward is to replace them electorally, not waste time trying to placate them.

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We have to accept that there are huge blocs of voters that will never vote for Democrats (Original Post) Yavin4 Nov 2020 OP
There are huge blocs of voters who will never vote for Republicans Locutusofborg Nov 2020 #1
Exactly. Yavin4 Nov 2020 #5
Democratic Voters need to turn out in off year elections. pwb Nov 2020 #2
Precisely Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #4
That has been true forever Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #3
Hmmm Lotusflower70 Nov 2020 #6
How would we have won two senate seats in Arizona and maybe have the ability to win two Senate Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #9
New residents moved to GA and AZ. Yavin4 Nov 2020 #12
You are wrong...we need the new comers and to flip some who have lived there for a while. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #19
Ok now Lotusflower70 Nov 2020 #23
THIS!! I was getting ready to post the same thing. Vivienne235729 Nov 2020 #36
I don't accept that and believe a 50 state strategy and a Democratic big tent is what is Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #7
The sooner we accept reality Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2020 #8
Did senior citizens actually break for Biden? I know that the Rice4VP Nov 2020 #10
Offset by right wing latinos JI7 Nov 2020 #13
Nope. Trump won seniors. Yavin4 Nov 2020 #14
SMH. So even they lied to pollsters Rice4VP Nov 2020 #15
Not quite true. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #21
We cannot convert them. We must outnumber them at the polls. Earthshine2 Nov 2020 #11
I think many folks underestimate the power that evangelical churches have over their congregations Docreed2003 Nov 2020 #16
Yes. It's very simple. Everyone likes... JoeOtterbein Nov 2020 #17
As countless commentators have said this November, and in empedocles Nov 2020 #18
Agreed for the most part. I would argue this... Caliman73 Nov 2020 #20
BBBt Buuuttt But they might call us Socialists!!!! n/t rgbecker Nov 2020 #22
Not a waste of time. We could have won the Senate and did not. Sneederbunk Nov 2020 #24
We can still win the Senate. marmar Nov 2020 #34
The idea of accepting should also be balanced by how big a block of America they are. ancianita Nov 2020 #25
Almost a third of voters didn't vote, again. Blue_true Nov 2020 #30
And 13% of the whole adult population of un- and registereds. That's a lot more than it looks. ancianita Nov 2020 #32
One thing that burns me: some of those blocs are union members, .., JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2020 #27
Some receive Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, too. ancianita Nov 2020 #28
Union members started voting more republican when democrats started Blue_true Nov 2020 #31
Black/white arguments are common on the internet Dem2 Nov 2020 #29
73 million Americans believe Donald Trump is presidential material dalton99a Nov 2020 #33
Yip 1) those never-vote for Dems, but also 2) OUR constituents who don't vote. And yes, UTUSN Nov 2020 #35

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
5. Exactly.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:11 PM
Nov 2020

The key should be building out the base with people who have not already made up their minds about you.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
3. That has been true forever
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:10 PM
Nov 2020

They may not show up to vote, but if they do they will not vote Democratic. The same holds true in the opposite direction. No surprise here.

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
6. Hmmm
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:11 PM
Nov 2020

I accepted that a long time ago and yet I keep getting told to reach out to them and try to understand them. Nope. I am so over that.

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
9. How would we have won two senate seats in Arizona and maybe have the ability to win two Senate
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:13 PM
Nov 2020

seats in Georgia without reaching out to all voters...answer...we wouldn't have a chance.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
12. New residents moved to GA and AZ.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:17 PM
Nov 2020

Both states saw huge population growth from CA and Northeastern cities. Also, the growth of the tech sectors in these states attracts new voters as well.

We didn't win over Trump voters. We created entirely new voters.

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
19. You are wrong...we need the new comers and to flip some who have lived there for a while.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:28 PM
Nov 2020

You have to reach out to voters given the electoral college and it will be worse in two years with a new bout of gerrymandering on the way. My brother voted for Trump in 2016 He voted straight Democratic ticket this year...and the older voters who voted for Biden mostly voted for Trump...I know it is a attractive to believe we can win with our base and to hell with being competitive, but it is not true and every time we try we lose.

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
23. Ok now
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:40 PM
Nov 2020

Arizona was assisted by Cindy McCain and the 22 Native American tribes of Arizona. They showed up and showed out. They were new voters not Trump voters. Stacey Abrams had tremendous ground game in Georgia. Again new voters not Trump voters. They were not wasting time on voters stuck in false victimhood. Democrats have the numbers, they just needed the turnout.

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
7. I don't accept that and believe a 50 state strategy and a Democratic big tent is what is
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:11 PM
Nov 2020

needed. Without winning in Purple or moderate states,we won't have the House, the Senate or state houses. It will take work but biden showed clearly, we can win such voters with the right candidate and message.

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Rice4VP

(1,235 posts)
10. Did senior citizens actually break for Biden? I know that the
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:15 PM
Nov 2020

media kept saying that was our only hope in FloriDUH

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
21. Not quite true.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:31 PM
Nov 2020

Seniors: Swung to Biden in key states, improved nationally
So far, seniors have swung from Republican to Democrat in the battlegrounds of Michigan and Pennsylvania. In both of these states, older voters were more likely than younger voters to pick the coronavirus as their top issue.

And in Arizona, where seniors make up three in 10 voters, they split their votes between Biden and the president. In 2016, Mr. Trump won this group by 13 points, and he also won the state.

Nationally, Biden also made inroads with seniors. Mr. Trump won this group in 2016 by 7 points, but had just a 3-point edge this year.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/election-2020-exit-poll-analysis-how-biden-became-the-projected-winner/

Earthshine2

(3,853 posts)
11. We cannot convert them. We must outnumber them at the polls.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:16 PM
Nov 2020

Our very lives and prosperity depend on it.

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
16. I think many folks underestimate the power that evangelical churches have over their congregations
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:22 PM
Nov 2020

The evangelical movement, within the Southern Baptist church in particular, has been preaching directly and indirectly for decades that all things "Democrat" are bad and that no true Christian could support at Democratic candidate. I grew up within that community and saw it from rural churches and larger mega churches alike. (As an aside, the other side of my family were socially conscious liberal Catholics, so I got both extremes lol).

These people follow Trump and his policies, not because they think he's one of them, but because he's a Republican that is speaking "their language" and giving them power to fight for their real goal, which is a theocratic vision for America in their own making. This is cult that is not limited to just Trumpism. In order to change these hearts and minds, we have to find ways to deprogram them from the cult.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
18. As countless commentators have said this November, and in
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:25 PM
Nov 2020

Novembers past, - - 'what blue wave?'

Biden won, among Dems, as well as November, by capturing enough of the middle in his coalition.

Good arguments have been made that no other Dem Prez candidate would have won in 11/2020

Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
20. Agreed for the most part. I would argue this...
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 06:30 PM
Nov 2020

Something has to be done about right wing propaganda. There has always been a bloc of voters who will not vote for Democrats, but it was more movable in the past. What we have at this time specifically because people live in a world where they get "information" that is completely fabricated in falsehood, is an entrenched group of voters who are not dealing in the reality that the vast majority of people deals in.

We used to have arguments in this country and you can even say that they were fierce arguments, but we always argued from the same set of facts, and differed in how they were interpreted. When Nixon went down, everyone was watching the same sources who all thought Nixon was going down. I would argue that if Fox and right wing media existed during that time, it would have been much more difficult to get Nixon to resign because a whole swath of people would have been told he did "nothing wrong". In fact, Roger Ailes, Nixon, and Pat Buchanan were already trying to throw together a media system that would "give the conservative perspective" and this was heightened in Ailes' and Buchanan's minds when Nixon went down.

In this country we have a corporate media (which is what the right wing calls "the liberal media&quot , we have a highly coordinated right wing media (in which the message is very often repeated by most outlets with the same talking points), and a tiny left wing media (which is typically independent outlets) that critique both the corporate and right wing (also corporate) medias.

I won't be so arrogant as to say that reality is liberal. Reality is socially constructed. However the human condition has always been one of change and adaptation to the facts on the ground, and that is generally a liberal concept. We adapt to and adapt our environment but we ultimately have to face facts. Conservatives try to make the facts fit their agenda, where as liberals adjust much of their reality around facts presented. Therefore, view of reality is very different between the two groups.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
25. The idea of accepting should also be balanced by how big a block of America they are.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:04 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:23 PM - Edit history (1)

They are

47.3% of the total vote (as of today, 155,872, 778)

34% of the total registered population (213,799,467 as of Nov 3 2020 https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/number-of-registered-voters-by-state)

30% of the total voting age population 2020, around 246,000,000 (2010 Census rounded up to 330 million minus 74 million minors and 10 million undocumented immigrants)

22% of America, overall.


That leaves close to 4/5 of America who don't accept them.
We need to accept our mandate to govern for that population even more, not be reactive to that 22%, and encourage that 22% to rethink their view of what America really is.

America is not them.

They are definitely not a big enough block of America to either define or presume that some guns and fussing give them some outsized power to tell the rest of America what America really is.


Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
30. Almost a third of voters didn't vote, again.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:48 PM
Nov 2020

I am afraid that if those people were told that a killer asteroid will hit the earth if they don’t vote, they would actually see it incoming and still would not vote, IMO. I don’t understand the world those people live in, it is as if they believe that whoever gets elected has no impact on their lives.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
32. And 13% of the whole adult population of un- and registereds. That's a lot more than it looks.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:38 PM
Nov 2020

Everything you say about their mentality is probably true. That there's a whole level of privilege. And indifference. Or poverty. They probably have come to think that others will take care of the world's problems so they can just get on with themselves. Maybe they just want to be left alone. I'll bet a lot of them don't bother with masks, either.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
27. One thing that burns me: some of those blocs are union members, ..,
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:33 PM
Nov 2020

... getting good wages and benefits because of past and present sacrifices by union brothers and sisters

They know the Republican party would eliminate unions in a heartbeat if thcy could. They've already turned some states to "right-to-work" (right to screw employees).

Union workers should be voting "D".

Solidarity forever.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
28. Some receive Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, too.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:39 PM
Nov 2020

So what common thread do recipients of Democratic Party efforts have -- probably racism and sexism, as Gov Cuomo said today.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
31. Union members started voting more republican when democrats started
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:51 PM
Nov 2020

pushing for more job equity for POC and women.

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
29. Black/white arguments are common on the internet
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 07:40 PM
Nov 2020

And we are a very polarized country right now.

I still think there are a lot of independents who will be happy to have a stable, competent government. Biden has a chance to lead by example and I think he'll be a better president than he was a candidate. In fact I'd bet large sums of money that he will be a well liked president.

dalton99a

(81,068 posts)
33. 73 million Americans believe Donald Trump is presidential material
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:47 PM
Nov 2020

and deserves a second term as president

Fuck them.




UTUSN

(70,496 posts)
35. Yip 1) those never-vote for Dems, but also 2) OUR constituents who don't vote. And yes,
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:50 PM
Nov 2020

"grow the base/young voters" - is long-range strategizing, looking for root causes and root solutions, spoken like a true Dem.







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