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still_one

(91,967 posts)
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 10:25 AM Nov 2020

On Bloomberg earlier this morning they had analyst on saying that Pelosi will be blamed for

not taking the 1.8 trillion stimulus deal

That argument seems to ignore the Senate entirely, and the significant number of Senate republicans that were never going to go for the 1.8 trillion, including McConnell

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On Bloomberg earlier this morning they had analyst on saying that Pelosi will be blamed for (Original Post) still_one Nov 2020 OP
People SAY a lot of things, especially about Pelosi vlyons Nov 2020 #1
I agree still_one Nov 2020 #17
It was Cruz and Paul who said "no way" to stimulus over 1 trillion. Laelth Nov 2020 #2
She should take it and move on. It will help some people Rice4VP Nov 2020 #3
Is there any indication McConnell Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #4
she went OFF (on the verge of losing her cool more than I have seen in years) every time a Celerity Nov 2020 #5
Do you know what exactly is in that bill ? kacekwl Nov 2020 #9
I don't know what's in it. But they need to do Rice4VP Nov 2020 #10
I don't disagree that more action is needed, but consider... better Nov 2020 #16
👆 This. crickets Nov 2020 #21
No I don't, but I got the impressions it didn't help the cities still_one Nov 2020 #18
It depends what is actually in it - the difference is NOT just the amount of money karynnj Nov 2020 #15
The Senate Republicans are to blame for the Hereos Act JonLP24 Nov 2020 #6
I saw that Jon, and I agree with your analysis still_one Nov 2020 #19
I've not seen literally a single post linking the failure to achieve a stimulus bullwinkle428 Nov 2020 #7
Sooner or later, we're going to have to stop blaming the media... Act_of_Reparation Nov 2020 #12
CNN, Fox News, & MSNBC are not the friends of Democrats JonLP24 Nov 2020 #13
Thinking people are going to change their habits is a long wait for a train that doesn't come. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2020 #14
When did the Senate pass the 1.8 bill ? From what I understand JI7 Nov 2020 #8
and nothing to the cities still_one Nov 2020 #20
This hurt in Florida MoonlitKnight Nov 2020 #11
What 'deal'? Media often does a lazy, lackluster job of covering COVID relief efforts. crickets Nov 2020 #22

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
1. People SAY a lot of things, especially about Pelosi
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 10:32 AM
Nov 2020

The RW haters criticize her for everything, from her hairdo to her politics. So what? She's the speaker, and she will remain the speaker.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
2. It was Cruz and Paul who said "no way" to stimulus over 1 trillion.
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 10:32 AM
Nov 2020

McConnell threw up his hands and left the negotiating with Pelosi to the administration, but there’s no way that the Senate would have approved 1.8 trillion, even if Pelosi agreed to it.

-Laelth

Turin_C3PO

(13,650 posts)
4. Is there any indication McConnell
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 10:59 AM
Nov 2020

and the Republicans would allow that to come up for a vote? If not, then the blame needs to be placed on them, not Pelosi.

Celerity

(42,674 posts)
5. she went OFF (on the verge of losing her cool more than I have seen in years) every time a
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:02 AM
Nov 2020

reporter asked her why she refused to do just that. She was really angry every time (3 or 4 times that I saw). She hates McTurtle with a burning passion. I honestly think more than Trump in some respects.

I trust her instinct.

kacekwl

(6,994 posts)
9. Do you know what exactly is in that bill ?
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:12 AM
Nov 2020

Does it really help those who need it ? Does it funnel the bulk of dollars to the corporate "small businesses" again ? Does it get help to schools to help them open safely ? Does it fund efforts to deal with Corona virus mitigation ? Does it have more poison pills to stop support of the bill ? Lots of questions with no answers. I trust Madam Speaker Pelosi to do the right thing. Until the media asks McConnell these and other questions then I know who to blame.

better

(884 posts)
16. I don't disagree that more action is needed, but consider...
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 12:09 PM
Nov 2020

That rejecting the Senate bill IS doing something besides simply referring to The Heroes Act.

Voting for doing something one way and against doing that same thing another way is how Congress is supposed to work, but it's incumbent upon us as citizens, to some extent, to understand the nuances involved, and what they mean. And that's where there's arguably some reasonable grievance to be voiced about effective messaging.

As others have noted here, it does really depend what's in it, and the difference is NOT just the amount of money. If memory serves, the biggest factor of which we should be aware is that the Senate bill NOT ONLY substantially neglects the people who actually need the help the most, but it ALSO shields employers from any liability for their employees contracting the virus.

The liability shield ALONE is more than adequate grounds on which to reject the Senate bill, in that it sets up a situation where employers can force people back into working conditions they KNOW are a deadly threat, with zero liability, and if that wasn't bad enough, it would ALSO render people ineligible for assistance for refusing to put their lives in unnecessary danger.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that what McConnell is doing is continuing to attempt to enforce minority rule, by holding the majority hostage.

crickets

(25,896 posts)
21. 👆 This.
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 01:22 PM
Nov 2020
it does really depend what's in it, and the difference is NOT just the amount of money. If memory serves, the biggest factor of which we should be aware is that the Senate bill NOT ONLY substantially neglects the people who actually need the help the most, but it ALSO shields employers from any liability for their employees contracting the virus.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
15. It depends what is actually in it - the difference is NOT just the amount of money
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:49 AM
Nov 2020

It is crazy to reduce the difference to just cost. We are already hearing how much of the big CARE package went to businesses and people who it should not have gone to.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
6. The Senate Republicans are to blame for the Hereos Act
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:06 AM
Nov 2020

Wolf Blitzer helped Trump by grilling her as well as Andrew Yang who has no experience in government.

Wiki

After the bill's passage in the House, Republicans in the Senate called it "dead on arrival", saying it was "unrealistic" and a "partisan offering"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act

This is not Pelosi's fault.

bullwinkle428

(20,627 posts)
7. I've not seen literally a single post linking the failure to achieve a stimulus
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:08 AM
Nov 2020

deal with the poor performance of Congressional Democrats on Election Day.

But we have to take into account how incredibly unfair that characterization is!! The media kept bashing Nancy P. every single day for "failing to agree with 'Munchkin' on the numbers!" They simply refused to consider how different the appropriations were on the two sides, and how little the Reupkes' bill would actually benefit those that needed it the most. This was THE reason that Nancy wouldn't take their deal. But the intellectually lazy approach was to just blame "both sides" equally, and low-info voters bought this hook, line and sinker.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
12. Sooner or later, we're going to have to stop blaming the media...
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:25 AM
Nov 2020

...and start looking at our messaging strategies.

It's clear just telling people the facts isn't working.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
13. CNN, Fox News, & MSNBC are not the friends of Democrats
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:29 AM
Nov 2020

I recommend stop watching pundits debate the news & read a wide variety of trusted sources online & newspapers.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
14. Thinking people are going to change their habits is a long wait for a train that doesn't come.
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:46 AM
Nov 2020

It's much easier for us to adjust our messaging strategy than it is to get millions of largely disengaged potential voters to change how they consume information.

JI7

(89,184 posts)
8. When did the Senate pass the 1.8 bill ? From what I understand
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:09 AM
Nov 2020

McConnell only wants a bill where the money goes to large corporations .

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
11. This hurt in Florida
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 11:21 AM
Nov 2020

The Republicans pushed this along with the media.

But the actual facts are that there never was a bill from the Senate nor anything concrete from the administration. There never was a $1.8 trillion deal nor a one cent deal to agree with. And if there was any kind of deal it would have included immunity for businesses that is a non starter.

crickets

(25,896 posts)
22. What 'deal'? Media often does a lazy, lackluster job of covering COVID relief efforts.
Tue Nov 17, 2020, 01:31 PM
Nov 2020

It's a disservice to everyone to frame the issue merely in terms of dollars, ignoring the content of the proposed bills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEALS_Act

A major difference between the proposals concerns state and local governments. The HEALS Act provides no additional funding, while the HEROES Act allocates $1 trillion in additional aid to state and local governments.[36] Another difference is on evictions and foreclosure, which were forbidden in certain cases under the CARES Act. The HEALS Act lets the provisions expire, while the HEROES Act extends it for up to another year and expands the moratorium to cover all renters and homeowners, instead of just the special cases covered in the CARES Act.[37]


Another major difference is that HEALS includes shield provisions for corporate immunity. This is a major sticking point. HEALS also includes inappropriate allocations for NASA, West Wing renovations, and the DOD, including money for weapons and Navy aircraft procurement... but zero for Veterans Affairs.

There have been changes over time since both Acts first came out, but these differences give a good indication of the reasons why legislation has stalled. Media not bothering to address the details is misleading people into thinking no one is bothering to try to get help to everyday people, which just is not true. The HEROES Act isn't perfect, but at least the House passed something worthwhile, in May, which Mitch never bothered to bring the Senate floor for discussion.

That the Senate passed their bill and then called the House bill "partisan and unrealistic" is just insulting. As usual.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200805113420/https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/07/27/us/politics/27reuters-health-coronavirus-usa-legislation-factbox.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/07/28/think-the-senate-funding-bill-is-just-about-covid-19-think-again/?sh=3ac3532f1c3e




Democrats made a good faith effort at compromise and came back with a pared down version of HEROES, and still were rebuffed. It was a wasted effort, and media skewing the perception of events by not properly covering them doesn't help. Nancy Pelosi isn't the problem. trump, Mnuchin, Senate Republicans, and Mitch McConnell are the problem.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/09/29/stimulus-update-dems-cut-12-trillion-from-heroes-act-propose-22-trillion-stimulus-package/?sh=4cd62a8c57a9
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