General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOn Bloomberg earlier this morning they had analyst on saying that Pelosi will be blamed for
not taking the 1.8 trillion stimulus deal
That argument seems to ignore the Senate entirely, and the significant number of Senate republicans that were never going to go for the 1.8 trillion, including McConnell
vlyons
(10,252 posts)The RW haters criticize her for everything, from her hairdo to her politics. So what? She's the speaker, and she will remain the speaker.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)McConnell threw up his hands and left the negotiating with Pelosi to the administration, but theres no way that the Senate would have approved 1.8 trillion, even if Pelosi agreed to it.
-Laelth
Rice4VP
(1,235 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,650 posts)and the Republicans would allow that to come up for a vote? If not, then the blame needs to be placed on them, not Pelosi.
Celerity
(42,674 posts)reporter asked her why she refused to do just that. She was really angry every time (3 or 4 times that I saw). She hates McTurtle with a burning passion. I honestly think more than Trump in some respects.
I trust her instinct.
kacekwl
(6,994 posts)Does it really help those who need it ? Does it funnel the bulk of dollars to the corporate "small businesses" again ? Does it get help to schools to help them open safely ? Does it fund efforts to deal with Corona virus mitigation ? Does it have more poison pills to stop support of the bill ? Lots of questions with no answers. I trust Madam Speaker Pelosi to do the right thing. Until the media asks McConnell these and other questions then I know who to blame.
Rice4VP
(1,235 posts)something besides referring to The Heroes Act
better
(884 posts)That rejecting the Senate bill IS doing something besides simply referring to The Heroes Act.
Voting for doing something one way and against doing that same thing another way is how Congress is supposed to work, but it's incumbent upon us as citizens, to some extent, to understand the nuances involved, and what they mean. And that's where there's arguably some reasonable grievance to be voiced about effective messaging.
As others have noted here, it does really depend what's in it, and the difference is NOT just the amount of money. If memory serves, the biggest factor of which we should be aware is that the Senate bill NOT ONLY substantially neglects the people who actually need the help the most, but it ALSO shields employers from any liability for their employees contracting the virus.
The liability shield ALONE is more than adequate grounds on which to reject the Senate bill, in that it sets up a situation where employers can force people back into working conditions they KNOW are a deadly threat, with zero liability, and if that wasn't bad enough, it would ALSO render people ineligible for assistance for refusing to put their lives in unnecessary danger.
And that doesn't even get into the fact that what McConnell is doing is continuing to attempt to enforce minority rule, by holding the majority hostage.
still_one
(91,967 posts)karynnj
(59,475 posts)It is crazy to reduce the difference to just cost. We are already hearing how much of the big CARE package went to businesses and people who it should not have gone to.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Wolf Blitzer helped Trump by grilling her as well as Andrew Yang who has no experience in government.
Wiki
After the bill's passage in the House, Republicans in the Senate called it "dead on arrival", saying it was "unrealistic" and a "partisan offering"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act
This is not Pelosi's fault.
still_one
(91,967 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,627 posts)deal with the poor performance of Congressional Democrats on Election Day.
But we have to take into account how incredibly unfair that characterization is!! The media kept bashing Nancy P. every single day for "failing to agree with 'Munchkin' on the numbers!" They simply refused to consider how different the appropriations were on the two sides, and how little the Reupkes' bill would actually benefit those that needed it the most. This was THE reason that Nancy wouldn't take their deal. But the intellectually lazy approach was to just blame "both sides" equally, and low-info voters bought this hook, line and sinker.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...and start looking at our messaging strategies.
It's clear just telling people the facts isn't working.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I recommend stop watching pundits debate the news & read a wide variety of trusted sources online & newspapers.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It's much easier for us to adjust our messaging strategy than it is to get millions of largely disengaged potential voters to change how they consume information.
JI7
(89,184 posts)McConnell only wants a bill where the money goes to large corporations .
still_one
(91,967 posts)MoonlitKnight
(1,584 posts)The Republicans pushed this along with the media.
But the actual facts are that there never was a bill from the Senate nor anything concrete from the administration. There never was a $1.8 trillion deal nor a one cent deal to agree with. And if there was any kind of deal it would have included immunity for businesses that is a non starter.
crickets
(25,896 posts)It's a disservice to everyone to frame the issue merely in terms of dollars, ignoring the content of the proposed bills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEALS_Act
Another major difference is that HEALS includes shield provisions for corporate immunity. This is a major sticking point. HEALS also includes inappropriate allocations for NASA, West Wing renovations, and the DOD, including money for weapons and Navy aircraft procurement... but zero for Veterans Affairs.
There have been changes over time since both Acts first came out, but these differences give a good indication of the reasons why legislation has stalled. Media not bothering to address the details is misleading people into thinking no one is bothering to try to get help to everyday people, which just is not true. The HEROES Act isn't perfect, but at least the House passed something worthwhile, in May, which Mitch never bothered to bring the Senate floor for discussion.
That the Senate passed their bill and then called the House bill "partisan and unrealistic" is just insulting. As usual.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200805113420/https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/07/27/us/politics/27reuters-health-coronavirus-usa-legislation-factbox.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/07/28/think-the-senate-funding-bill-is-just-about-covid-19-think-again/?sh=3ac3532f1c3e
Democrats made a good faith effort at compromise and came back with a pared down version of HEROES, and still were rebuffed. It was a wasted effort, and media skewing the perception of events by not properly covering them doesn't help. Nancy Pelosi isn't the problem. trump, Mnuchin, Senate Republicans, and Mitch McConnell are the problem.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/09/29/stimulus-update-dems-cut-12-trillion-from-heroes-act-propose-22-trillion-stimulus-package/?sh=4cd62a8c57a9