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Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:20 PM Nov 2020

Treason

I have used the word repeatedly, especially when I discuss how Nixon and Reagan came into office during the 1968 and 1980 elections respectively. Nixon went behind LBJ's back to blow up the Paris Peace talks prolonging the Vietnam conflict another 5 years. Reagan of course famously went behind Carter's back and blew up the negotiations for the release of the embassy hostages, which lead to the Iran-Contra scandal where Reagan sold missiles to Iran despite being a "state sponsor of terror" and also sold arms to the Right Wing Contras against the law. I call them "treason" because they were betrayals of the country. BUT, they are not legally Treason as in 18 U.S. Code § 2381.

In common usage of the word, Trump is a treasonous, treacherous, piece of crap, who is no doubt betraying the trust of the United States and committing various criminal acts.

So, my questions for discussion are What is treason to you? Are we doing harm or good by calling Trump and other people's actions "treason"? and "Is there a better way to discuss those actions?"

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Treason (Original Post) Caliman73 Nov 2020 OP
Sedition bordering on insurrection exboyfil Nov 2020 #1
All of this is a betrayal of his oath of office. That should be enough. Zoonart Nov 2020 #2
I would tend to agree. Definitely from a legal stand point. Caliman73 Nov 2020 #5
This!👆 SheltieLover Nov 2020 #7
How do people not zi Arne Nov 2020 #3
The answer is probably complex... Caliman73 Nov 2020 #8
Good Question leftieNanner Nov 2020 #4
Agreed. There are many good reasons he should be investigated, tried, and if found guilty, punished. Caliman73 Nov 2020 #6
Traitorous drmeow Nov 2020 #9
Good points. Caliman73 Nov 2020 #10
That's why I like calling drmeow Nov 2020 #11

Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
5. I would tend to agree. Definitely from a legal stand point.
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:27 PM
Nov 2020

Treason, the actual crime necessitates that we be at war with the "enemy" the traitor provides support to.

Trump is definitely inciting sentiment of his followers to go against the established order. He is the president, but he was legitimately defeated in the election and now he is calling his followers to question the results and block the transition of the victor in the election.

I think sedition can be argued well in court.

Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
8. The answer is probably complex...
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:48 PM
Nov 2020

But in a nutshell, most people don't really pay attention to "politics". I would venture to say that a really big portion of Americans don't know who their local, state, or federal representatives are. Most people see "politics" as separate, far away, boring, or something that they don't really have a voice in. So there is Apathy.

There is also a sizable portion of our populace who directly gets propaganda from the conservative perspective beamed to their television, radio, and devices daily and are basically brainwashed to believe that conservatives are the good guys and we are the bad guys.

leftieNanner

(14,997 posts)
4. Good Question
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:26 PM
Nov 2020

The textbook definition of treason generally involves giving aid and comfort to an enemy during war. So I'm not sure if that word accurately fits his actions.

I think The Orange One's behavior may fit better under the term sedition.

Whatever it is, it's a huge threat to our country.

Lock the man up. Really.

Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
6. Agreed. There are many good reasons he should be investigated, tried, and if found guilty, punished.
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:30 PM
Nov 2020

No doubt.


What struck me about the word, and I am as guilty as anyone, but a high ranking Congress person just said that Trump's actions "border on treason".

It is just one of those words, like "crazy" or "common sense" that we all seem to understand, but really, we don't know what they actually mean or the best way to use them.

drmeow

(4,995 posts)
9. Traitorous
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:51 PM
Nov 2020

Treason and traitor are terms people think they understand - and their understanding doesn't necessarily match when there are legal or constitutional definitions. I don't think most people understand what sedition means. But traitor and traitorous (I don't think) have legal meanings. While not as visceral as treason, traitor and traitorous can capture the severity of the behavior without derailing the point because people don't know what sedition is. But sedition seems the most accurate term.

Caliman73

(11,693 posts)
10. Good points.
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 02:56 PM
Nov 2020

Traitorous and traitor are good terms. I agree, they are linked to treason, but not in the legal definition. The emphasis is on the betrayal. I also like treacherous which emphasizes the deceit.

Trump is a traitorous, treacherous, traitor.

drmeow

(4,995 posts)
11. That's why I like calling
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 03:04 PM
Nov 2020

McConnell "Benedict McConnell." American kids learn that Benedict Arnold was a traitor and when they hear Benedict they often automatically connect it with Arnold and traitor - so they connect traitor with McConnell.

Cumberbatch interferes with that association but no one in their right mind would hear Benedict McConnell and picture Cumberbatch

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