HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Eliminating the President...

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:04 AM

Eliminating the Presidential Pardon power


It is Andrew McCarthy at National Review that is proposing it. It is a good idea, but obviously, the reform doesn't come soon enough for it to stop Trump abusing it. Since you can do anything you want, I would propose that a compromise to remove pardon protections with a look back time that includes the last year of Trump's administration. Normally Ex post facto is wrong, but, given the level of corruption we have seen, it should happen.

Why did Obama issue a pardon to James Cartwright? This article talks about that pardon and cites it as a political pardon. The only other example of "political" Obama pardons were the ones for drug offenders which were compassionate and smart. So smart that one person who was missed, and even a little questionable given the surrounding circumstances, was pardoned by Trump in a real big show basically sticking it in the face of Obama.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2021/01/25/repeal-the-pardon-power/

23 replies, 835 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Eliminating the Presidential Pardon power (Original post)
exboyfil Jan 2021 OP
Firestorm49 Jan 2021 #1
mitch96 Jan 2021 #7
Wounded Bear Jan 2021 #2
exboyfil Jan 2021 #3
2naSalit Jan 2021 #11
dware Jan 2021 #15
2naSalit Jan 2021 #16
struggle4progress Jan 2021 #4
former9thward Jan 2021 #5
exboyfil Jan 2021 #6
marie999 Jan 2021 #8
former9thward Jan 2021 #18
marie999 Jan 2021 #23
Buckeyeblue Jan 2021 #9
exboyfil Jan 2021 #10
BGBD Jan 2021 #12
FakeNoose Jan 2021 #13
former9thward Jan 2021 #19
Happy Hoosier Jan 2021 #14
MurrayDelph Jan 2021 #20
Happy Hoosier Jan 2021 #21
lettucebe Jan 2021 #17
986racer Jan 2021 #22

Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:08 AM

1. I believe that limits need to be implemented and very well defined.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Firestorm49 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:08 PM

7. Exactally... limit to, lets say 5 pardons. so pick wisely... Do you have to amend the constitution?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:10 AM

2. It's a Constitutional issue and would probably require an Amendment...nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:14 AM

3. Yes but after this I think it should have wide bipartisan support

Also consideration of what it takes to remove a President from office, but that will be much harder. It could be abused. It always takes the fucked up moves by Republicans that destroy a system. Al Gore should have fought like this in 2000 (or maybe he shouldn't have), but on one brings that up. Gore should have sent his mob to the Supreme Court (just kidding since he didn't have a mob).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:52 PM

11. Maybe after 2022, if we win ore seats in Congress.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 2naSalit (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 01:00 PM

15. Even if we do win more Senate seats in 2022 and got 2/3rds of the Congress to vote for it,

the Amendment would still need 3/4ths of the states to ratify it, 13 states can block any change to the Constitution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dware (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 01:03 PM

16. True.

That part will require citizens to make it so at that point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:21 AM

4. I would not eliminate it but might give Congress the power to establish by law

requirements to specify in the pardon the exact acts covered and/or a narrowly limited time period and to clarify that the pardon power does not extend in cases where the pardon might help cover-up a crime by the President

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:29 AM

5. You can find what some would call abuses of pardons by every president.

But no matter. Even if it got through Congress it would take 37 states to change the pardon power in the Constitution. That would never happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 11:35 AM

6. You are taking it away from Biden

That should be a strong selling point. They don't act on principle, they act on power.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:10 PM

8. I don't see why the states would mind this amendment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marie999 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 01:54 PM

18. If the power was taken from the president then next would be governors.

They have the same power and want to keep it. Also if this was seen as partisan, and focusing on Trump it would be seen that way, there would never be 37 states that would go along. The Republicans hold the majority of legislatures.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 06:01 PM

23. Why the governors? This would be up to each individual state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:13 PM

9. What if congress can override the pardon witha 2/3 vote?

There are more important things I would like to see as an amendment to the constitution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:15 PM

10. I think changing the Pardon power is doable

Those other things aren't (which is an argument for another day because I think our system of government is doomed).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:54 PM

12. Founding fathers had a lot of foresight

But handing one guy unlimited power to pardon people was idiotic and a serious throwback to the monarch.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:57 PM

13. It's only because of Chump that we need to do this

Will there ever be another Chump?

I sure hope not, but the safeguards need to be established immediately.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FakeNoose (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 01:55 PM

19. Are you really good with the pardons Clinton gave on his last day?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 12:58 PM

14. Limit it, don't eliminate.

Establish conflict of interest limits. Make it clear the President cannot pardon himself. Aloe Congress to override any Pardon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 02:11 PM

20. Himself, his/her immediate family,

and no one work which he had direct business ties.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 02:13 PM

21. +1 NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 01:13 PM

17. Just needs to be fine tuned. Starting with no one can be pardoned until they have served time

No pardoning in advance. That's pretty ridiculous. This needs to be taken more seriously, and obviously pardoning someone that's involved in your crimes isn't going to be allowed (not sure it's going to be allowed this time either but time will tell).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2021, 02:48 PM

22. The only reason he is proposing it is because a democrat will be holding the office for a long time

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread