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Fri Apr 2, 2021, 08:54 AM

So I have a story for you:

In the mid-1960s, I attended a private school which was known as an artsy and literature-based institution, founded by four male teachers living up in the New Hope, Pennsylvania area. The school was a boarding and day school with the girls’ dormitory separated from the main campus by about a mile. That campus was located on the campus of defunct school for girls and had been converted to dormitories and recreational facilities including a tennis court.

When I first attended the school, jackets and ties were not optional for boys and dresses for girls were mandatory during class time. Discipline was enforced fairly consistently with a system of demerits and detentions for serious offenses or for an accumulation of too many demerits. On the surface, it seemed like a buttoned-down Somewhat conservative institution, but not nearly as staid and rigorous as some of the other more elite private schools in the area.

At that time, I was enrolled in the Latin class which was tight by a British fellow who had degrees from Oxford and Cambridge, was remarkably young for his knowledge base and breadth, and we read many essays and tracts written by ancient Roman authors. One of these essays concerned the desire for ascent to powerful positions for many solely for the access to sex partners or groups. It detailed the intricate hierarchy of the system which provided release as it were to the officials, the wealthy, the business owners, and royalty. What struck me at the time was the accentuation upon the use of very young girls and boys for the escapades of these individuals. I found it a little curious as a post pubescent student that we were reading this in class, but was certainly not complaining since accessing salacious material was my forte in those days.

It turned out, that the teacher was forcing himself upon a number of the female students over the years in which he was at the school, and seducing as many as he could which was a rather easy task given that he had an apartment in the boys dorm and that he was a very glib sociopath . I distinctly remember coming into Latin class in his apartment one day, and one of my classmates was sitting on the sofa, her hair in disarray, her face flushed, and I shall never forget the distinct odor in the room which as a 16-year-old I could not place but certainly know now what that scent is from. As time progressed we began to learn more and more about his and others’ exploits and as a group of guys we used to sit around and say to ourselves and each other what’s the matter? Can’t these guys find a date with someone their own age? They were taking all our candidates and despoiling them. We did not understand that this was a form of sickness and disturbance which is incredibly dangerous for the victim and has lifetime ramifications. We were kids and it was sex and nothing better than that could possibly exist.

Over the years this became a giant scandal which, if you’re interested, you can peruse online by searching for the obvious terms and clues I have provided here. The teacher went on to other schools to perform the same behaviors, and has since been implicated in many dozens of assaults. Of course, he was not alone and the ramifications of all this caused multiple grand jury convening’s, accusations, and unfortunately almost no convictions.

I relate this story because the breadth and length of this particular behavior within society is actually enormous in my humble opinion. I think that we have seen various small tentacles pop up above the surface with an enormous creature hiding underneath. There is no telling how many people have been involved at the highest government levels, and I would posit that peoples evolution within the system is keyed often to the fact that they are connected to this ring of rapists. It would not surprise me in the least to see virtually anyone’s name associated with it, I think that’s in large part what the secret Hoover files contained (The older people here will remember rumors of their existence and their ostensible destruction after Hoover‘s sudden death), and I firmly believe that this type of information, supplied by Putin and others is what Trump used against various members of Congress and the business community. There are only a few things which an individual can do which will cause society to ostracize him or her and even now, in this age of permissiveness, having sex with minors is still considered taboo.

This scandal which has unfolded in the last few days is just A tiny manifestation of the enormous ongoing behavior of a great number of people. While watching people breakdown on the witness stand during the trial of George Floyd’s murderer, I was thinking how collectively upset the general populace would be if there were a sudden release of video, photographs, and testimony involving the hundreds or thousands of people involved in this lascivious and criminal behavior of raping Children and young teenagers. It would have the potential to destroy the very fabric of our political and business system reaching from Washington to every state capital to the board rooms of every major corporation.

In conclusion, I would submit that even if all this material came out, there would of course be tens of millions of Americans who would say that this is an overstatement, that this stuff really doesn’t happen that often, and that most of it is hearsay. However, the vast number of people would be repulsed and revolved by this mammoth dissent into the pit of carnal illegality. During the time of the former guy, it became acceptable that any lie, any denial of objective truth, any statement made no matter how outrageous can be interpreted as true by those who wish to believe it. I will be curious to see how this story evolves and if the Matt Gaetz thread which has been pulled Unravels a significant portion of the garment.

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply So I have a story for you: (Original post)
PCIntern Apr 2021 OP
Scrivener7 Apr 2021 #1
madaboutharry Apr 2021 #2
panader0 Apr 2021 #3
Diamond_Dog Apr 2021 #4
judesedit Apr 2021 #20
Treefrog Apr 2021 #43
wnylib Apr 2021 #45
Treefrog Apr 2021 #47
wnylib Apr 2021 #48
wnylib Apr 2021 #32
Diamond_Dog Apr 2021 #39
wnylib Apr 2021 #44
Diamond_Dog Apr 2021 #46
Trueblue Texan Apr 2021 #5
EYESORE 9001 Apr 2021 #6
multigraincracker Apr 2021 #24
wnylib Apr 2021 #37
Karadeniz Apr 2021 #58
wnylib Apr 2021 #60
jmbar2 Apr 2021 #7
OneGrassRoot Apr 2021 #15
wnylib Apr 2021 #38
eppur_se_muova Apr 2021 #61
jmbar2 Apr 2021 #62
Quakerfriend Apr 2021 #8
PCIntern Apr 2021 #10
Quakerfriend Apr 2021 #11
MineralMan Apr 2021 #9
Ferrets are Cool Apr 2021 #12
enough Apr 2021 #13
PCIntern Apr 2021 #16
Amaryllis Apr 2021 #56
tiptonic Apr 2021 #14
2naSalit Apr 2021 #29
llmart Apr 2021 #17
FakeNoose Apr 2021 #18
Hotler Apr 2021 #19
housecat Apr 2021 #34
wnylib Apr 2021 #40
crickets Apr 2021 #50
RVN VET71 Apr 2021 #54
Warpy Apr 2021 #21
PCIntern Apr 2021 #22
Warpy Apr 2021 #26
Beetwasher. Apr 2021 #23
malaise Apr 2021 #25
Hekate Apr 2021 #27
Kid Berwyn Apr 2021 #28
PCIntern Apr 2021 #33
betsuni Apr 2021 #57
mopinko Apr 2021 #30
seta1950 Apr 2021 #31
dlk Apr 2021 #35
Alpeduez21 Apr 2021 #36
Pepsidog Apr 2021 #41
Pepsidog Apr 2021 #42
soldierant Apr 2021 #49
Upthevibe Apr 2021 #51
Cozmo Apr 2021 #52
Faux pas Apr 2021 #53
mnhtnbb Apr 2021 #55
BobTheSubgenius Apr 2021 #59

Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:16 AM

1. Sad to say that I agree with you that this goes on all the time, and it wouldn't be hard

to gain power and wealth by exploiting those who exploit others. We know Jeffrey Epstein did it. As you say, there are ancient writings detailing it. It's been going on forever, and probably has gone on in every society.

As for how this story will unfold, I imagine it will unfold the way these stories always do. He may take a fall, and we will have the sneaking suspicion that it goes way beyond him, but material will disappear, witness statements will change, and the whole thing will end in a way that lets the powers that be say that Gaetz and his buddy were just two sociopaths and that it doesn't go beyond them.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:26 AM

2. In my opinion sexual exploitation as a great deal to do with power.

Sociopathy and power is a dangerous soup. A recent example is the revelation of sexual abuse that we have now learned has long existed in Women’s Olympic level gymnastics. The Ohio State wrestling team is another case. Private schools, especially boarding schools where children and teenagers are not living with their families, are notorious. Sexual abuse of women in the workplace is a story as old as time.

The fact that some people so easily disregard and disrespect the boundaries and dignity of others is a reality that I find deeply depressing. And you are right PCIntern in that an event of abuse like you wrote about has lifelong ramifications. Sexual abuse ruins lives. It takes a certain evil to participate in behaviors that cause that kind of damage.

Thank you for posting. We will all soon learn once again who those are possessing a moral compass and of those who do not possess one at all.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:26 AM

3. Good read. Well written, and I think you're right.

Now to peruse the clues.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:27 AM

4. Wasn't there a thread here

When the “Me, Too” movement was in full swing, posing the question to female DUers, “have you ever been sexually harassed or assaulted”? The number of replies was astounding.

As a female, let me tell you that sometimes it’s scary to be a young girl in a man’s world. Back in my day, anyway. They just got away with it and nobody believed the girls. Because “boys will be boys” and shit like that. I’m glad it’s coming out now and in most cases these men are being held accountable. I think of a few things that happened to me and the attitude back then and it’s frightening.

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Response to Diamond_Dog (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:28 AM

20. Even as a young teenager, my daughter would not ride the school bus because the boys kept touching

her butt. Pretty sad. This was during the 80's. The bus driver didn't stop the bus until they quit doing it and it would've been useless telling the principal of the school at that time. This was in Boca Raton, FL. And in my experience, in all years preceding and following, this kind of stuff was common place. If you said anything, you'd be laughed at or ridiculed. You couldn't go to a "straight" night club to just dance, because you were expected to be "looking for it". If you turned it down, you'd be called names in some cases. Date rape was not uncommon. I want to say, not all men are rude. There are many admirable men, but the ignorant, rude ones give the others a bad rap, too. You weren't even safe in the work place. Everyone knows this stuff. It's not new. Why are we acting shocked? We should be shocked at the little that's been done to keep women from being harrassed, embarrassed and/or traumatized for so many years.

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Response to judesedit (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 01:18 PM

43. You said that perfectly.

I remember boys snapping the girls’ bra straps in middle school. All great fun for them.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 01:58 PM

45. I remember that happening to me

when I was in 7th grade. I turned around to confront the boy behind me who did it and the (male) teacher reprimanded ME for being out of line. So it happened a few more times because the boys felt free to do it. When I reacted to it again, the teacher sent me to the counselor's office with a note that said I was "incorrigible" and was acting inappropriately with boys in class, as if I had led them on.

Fortunately for me, the counselor's cousin was a social studies teacher at the school, whose kids I babysat for, so I knew him. (All in my neighborhood, which was 2 blocks from the school.) He asked what the problem was and I was too embarrassed at first to say. When I did tell him, he asked which boys were the problem. The main one was also from my neighborhood. The counselor said he would take care of it. Don't know exactly what he did, but I think he spoke to the kid or his parents because it stopped aftet that.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #45)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 02:53 PM

47. I remember it happening to me and my friends. I was very shy and it absolutely horrified me.

I didn’t even need a bra at that age, but not wearing one (remember training bras?) would have let me in for even more torment. I was an excellent student, but utterly dreaded school during those years.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 03:10 PM

48. I sometimes wonder what the outcome

would have been if I had not personally known the counselor and his family from babysitting in the neighborhood. I probably would have been labelled as a "bad" girl by teachers and classmates.

When I remember this, I still feel some anger at the teacher for blaming me for the boys' behavior.

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Response to Diamond_Dog (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:51 AM

32. So true that girls did not say anything

because we did not expect to be believed or feared retaliation or embarrassment, shame, or blame. We talked about it among ourselves, e.g. who to watch out for, but did not try to talk to adults about it.

I went to public schools. In junior high, there were various "monitor" positions that students could have if their grades were adequate. The positions were supposed to give kids some practical experience in the adult world, e.g. doing filing and answering phones in the principal's or counselor's office. Students could be excused from a class that was not a core curriculum subject in order to "work" certain days and time periods per week as a monitor.

In 8th grade, I was a library monitor - stamping and filing library cards at a desk next to the librarian's. Other girls warned me to watch out for the librarian because he liked to reach across the monitor's desk to pull a student's card from the file and always managed to "accidentally" brush his fingertips across the breast of female monitors. Girls would wear bulky, heavy sweaters on the days that we had library duty. Sure enough, he pulled it on me once. After that, I sat in positions that made it difficult or impossible for him to get breast access. So he would stand behind me and reach both arms around me to pull a card, putting me in the position of being hugged.

One day I just said, " You know, it's easier for me to reach the cards. Why not just tell me what you want and I'll pull it for you."

I passed this solution tip on to other girls. We had a collection of tips for avoiding his touch and advances.

Why did we put up with it? By junior high, we had already absorbed the message that that's just the way the world and men were, that it was our responsibility to look out for such things, and that we would be ignored or blamed if we said anything. In that respect, the monitor position really did give us practical experience for the adult work world.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #32)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:33 PM

39. Oh yeah

I totally believe your 8th grade library experience. We girls dealt with stuff like that all the time in school. During class change when I was in junior high, we girls were quite often jostled on purpose in order for a boy to brush us across the chest or butt. If you had to go up a flight of stairs, boys would stand underneath and make catcalls as they looked up our dresses (girls were not allowed to wear pants to school back then ... so absurd). I could go on and on. That’s the way it was for girls. We wouldn’t be believed if we spoke up or we’d be humiliated, or told that we were being too sensitive, so the pervasive thinking at the time was to take care of yourself and if something happened to you,you were asking for it. Things didn’t get any better once you got a job either. I could write pages and pages. And I was a very timid and quiet girl. I was brainy and artsy and didn’t date until my senior year. I really feel that girls feel more empowered now. But harassment and abuse is still happening way too often.

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Response to Diamond_Dog (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 01:40 PM

44. Yes, there were boys at school who

who harrassed girls, too, in both general and specific ways. That was bad enough coming from peers.

The librarian was a member of the school staff, an adult with a degree of authority over students, which made it even worse.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 02:06 PM

46. I understand.

Yes, that’s worse.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:29 AM

5. This is exactly what I've been saying!

None of these guys in the Trump circle of slobbering sycophants is so broke that they must prostrate themselves in such a humiliating fashion for a job. No. There is something much bigger, much more shameful, that carries a far greater penalty than publically humiliating themselves while they worship at the moron Trump's feet. I've especially thought this about Lindsey Graham.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:31 AM

6. In my experience, most of the illicit sexual activity involved so-called Christian youth ministers

My circle of friends and acquaintances has always been small, but it takes more than one hand to count the church youth ministers with whom I have been acquainted over the years who were caught engaging in inappropriate activities with children in their charge. In my particular experience, the perpetrator was always male and the victims always female. One avoided prosecution by agreeing to a shotgun wedding.

I'll grant that many people with purely altruistic motives enter fields that place them in positions of authority over children, but we must recognize that many others with predatory motives are drawn to those fields. With all that science knows about these predators, there surely must be tests and indicators that can be used to effectively weed them out early on. Are we, as a society, so mercenary that we are willing to overlook some percentage of predators just to make the educational system or other institution work? I don't really want to know the answer to that question; the truth may be too depressing for consideration.

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Response to EYESORE 9001 (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:36 AM

24. My family belonged to a small town Community Church back in the early 60s.

Pretty liberal for the times.
There was a big scandal when the handsome young minister ran off with a high school girl, I think it was on her 18th birthday. To me, at the time, 18 might as well have been 30. Anyway, I don't think either were ever heard of again, at least not by me.
I went to an all male "reform school", see Mary Trumps book. This was in the late 60s, and I can think of a few Donalds that went there. Bullies and richer than the average kid there.

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Response to EYESORE 9001 (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:21 PM

37. Yes, there are ways to weed out predators.

Several years ago I was a paid tutor for a church outreach program to help native Spanish speakers learn English. I worked with adults, so application and references were enough at that point.

But the church also had an after school latch key program for kids and a Big Brother/Big Sister program. They asked me to tutor a 7 year old girl who needed a lot of help learning to read. She was a native English speaker but came from a very dysfunctional family. The tutoring was at the church when many other people were present, so there still were not yet any additional screenings for me. But then the girl asked me to be her Big Sister when the one she was assigned to moved away.

At that point, I had to take a standardized psychological exam (don't recall the name of it) which was sent away for evaluation. Then there was a police and court background check for any criminal activity. I had to produce 4 character witnesses and go through a lengthy interview with the church's director of the children's program.

Only after the results of all the background checks, references, testing, and interviews was I allowed to have any one on one alone time with that child.

Most day care centers, schools, and church volunteer positions these days require a minimum of background checks and character witnesses. I don't know about youth pastors. I have had no experience with them since my church never had them. The church I grew up in had a youth group that was supervised by two sets of parents. (My parents were one of the sets.) The pastor dropped in on meetings from time to time, and attended social activities that we had outside of the church.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:29 PM

58. That's a very impressive level of concern your church displayed. I'm a retired teacher and I think

We should have had to undergo such scrutiny. I know one fellow teacher who had an affair with a student.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #58)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 12:45 AM

60. I'm not sure if the security program

Last edited Sat Apr 3, 2021, 03:19 AM - Edit history (1)

was established by the church, or if it was mandated by the national organization of Big Brothers and Big Sisters for all of their affiliates to follow. Since it is an organization designed for for individual, one one one time between children and adults, they can attract predators and need to weed them out during the application process.

ON EDIT: I forgot to mention another screening step before getting approval. The director of the children's program did a home visit to see how I lived. They were really quite thorough. By the time I got approval, I felt qualified for the FBI or CIA.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:43 AM

7. So in a way, the Q obsession with pedos was correct

but pointing to the wrong perps. Like Hillary, for dog's sake.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:21 AM

15. I think most of us recognize how pervasive this abuse is...

not only with adolescents but young children, with actual trafficking.

The Q thing used the anti-Semitic blood libel conspiracy, saying not only are children being abused, they're being murdered and eaten and the cabal members drink their blood (see adrenochrome).

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:23 PM

38. I suspected this about Qanon for a long time.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 02:52 AM

61. That's always the Uglican way. I was thinking about that earlier today ...

especially after hearing that Uglicans were *expecting* a Gaetz scandal to crop up sooner or later. Maybe one way to lessen the shock of that -- and the harm to the GQP -- was to leak stories to QAnon about alleged pedophilia among Dems, until some people just began to accept that idea that all political figures do it. This has happened in so many other cases that it should have been more obvious that this was just another example.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 11:17 AM

62. That makes sense

I think the whole QAnon thing smacks of Russian "active measures" meant to amplify fissures in American society, weakening boundaries between good and evil, truth and lies. Not saying that Russians were necessarily behind Q, but not putting it past them. Could be others adopting the techniques. Like Steve Bannon or others experimenting with the techniques.

Once those lines are blurred, evil has the field to do whatever they want. It will be hard to put that genie back into the bottle.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures


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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:47 AM

8. Interesting story, PC

Sadly I must agree with you re: the widespread prevalence of such abuses.
I grew up in a wonderful family with five sisters- Our childhood was simply magical, in many ways.
Later in life I learned that two of my sisters had been raped- in date rape situations.
And, over the years just talking with roommates, friends and acquaintances I came to realize that ~50% of the women I knew had been sexually assaulted.

On another note- PC do you remember Dr. Vernon Brightman?
Served with him on the IRB @ Penn.
He was such a gem! Whenever I see ur posts i think of him.

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Response to Quakerfriend (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:52 AM

10. Yes!

He was my oral medicine professor in the 70s. He was obviously a very bright guy, no pun intended, but his lectures were so very dry that we relied solely upon the notes service for the content Because he sounded like Charlie Brown’s teacher.

I understand he was a friendly sort and people liked him very much outside the classroom. When I was faculty there, I did not run across him in my travels very much at all. At Penn you knew somebody was probably a nice guy or gal because no one said anything horrendous about them among the faculty.

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:57 AM

11. Yes, he was very dry but, such a gentleman

I thought u might remember him 😉

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:51 AM

9. I have always said that if you took a room full of powerful men,

held them upside down by their feet and shook them strongly, the number of underaged girls and boys that fell out of their pockets would be astounding.

I continue not to be surprised when such things happen.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:08 AM

12. Thank you

for this post.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:10 AM

13. "taking all our candidates and despoiling them"

That word “despoiling” strikes a chilling note here. Maybe because I remember our Home Economics teacher informing all us eighth grade girls that “men don’t like shopworn goods.” That was 1958.

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Response to enough (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:25 AM

16. Consider how a 16 year old thinks

How am I going to follow THAT act? These teachers were “men of the world”. We were lowly fumbling adolescents. It’s about self-doubt at that age.

I never meant to imply that the women were lesser because of it.

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Response to enough (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 08:21 PM

56. Ironic that men are the ones who shopwear them.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:11 AM

14. So true

Remember the Boys Town incident, from years ago. How about the reporter, that wasn't a reporter for W? Then there was the Jeffrey Epstein suicide. Then mr trump, etc:. The Barr family private school. ..

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Response to tiptonic (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:44 AM

29. And what about Nestor?

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:34 AM

17. Wonderful post.

How many DU'ers and posts did we read while trump was in office that said some version of "what kind of kompromat does he have on these people"? I'd stake my life on the fact that it had something to do with sketchy activities with underage victims of their sordid behavior. I guarantee you that is true for Lindsay Graham. No one did a 180o switch in behavior towards trump like Lindsay did.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:42 AM

18. I think you have touched on an important point

In any culture, any society, there are those who would use their political/economic power for taking sexual conquests that they are not entitled to (usually with minors or unconsented adults.) Meanwhile there are others who refuse to see what is happening, or they see it but decide it's in their best interest to pretend it's not happening.

The measure of the culture or society is in how it protects or fails to protect the weakest who are being preyed upon. Examples would be Catholic priests, athletic and Olympic trainers, southern slave owners, unscrupulous teachers.

Whether Matt Gaetz used his political power for sexual conquest is perhaps beside the point. Apparently he was already doing it when he didn't have political power.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:51 AM

19. Anyone read the book or watch the series on cable call The Alienist?

a psychological thriller set amidst the vast wealth, extreme poverty and technological innovation of 1896 New York. A never-before-seen ritualistic killer is responsible for the gruesome murders of boy prostitutes,

Back in 1896 there were clubs or bars out in the open where rich and powerful men would go and hangout with young boys dressed as girls.
I doubt that ever went away, just went deeper underground. And I am sure there are politicians on the hill that tip-toe and toe the line because others know how creepy they are.

1988 there was the Franklin cover up.
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/18/us/a-lurid-mysterious-scandal-begins-taking-shape-in-omaha.html

Could it be that a big percent of the republicans on the hill are dirty and someone has proof. Maybe Matt Gaetz is the loose thread in the wind that lets it all unravel.

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Response to Hotler (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:53 AM

34. Maybe Epstein was another thread, so they had to kill him.

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Response to housecat (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:36 PM

40. I have suspected that ever since his "suicide."

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Response to housecat (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 06:52 PM

50. I have no doubt of this. I often wonder how Ghislaine Maxwell is still alive. nt

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Response to Hotler (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:32 PM

54. If Gaetz's situation threatens to unravel the whole suit

he’ll be dead, just like Epstein, before he has a chance to rat out his comrades-in-predation. I do not believe Gaetz has the cojones to do himself in, but if he dies violently, it will be made to look like suicide, just like Epstein.

And I also kinda doubt Gaetz has much, if anything, on anyone other than, maybe, a stray Florida legislator or minor state official.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:32 AM

21. "When all this comes out?"

Why do you think Epstein got whacked>

None of this is likely to surface until all his clients are safely dead and buried.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:33 AM

22. They pray to God every night that you're right

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:37 AM

26. The video stash from Epstein's NYC palace disappeared into the memory hole

shortly after the cops announced they'd found one.

I'm sure Barr's guys relieved them of the burden quickly.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:35 AM

23. The Deep Dark Secret Underbelly Of Society

Yes, this is what ALOT of "keep government out of our lives!" is really all about. Fear of discovery of people's sexual fetishes, many of which are predatory. And I'm not just talking teacher/student, but familial relationships as well. There's a lot more of this type of abuse than many imagine and it leads to many societal ills. It's the secret that underlies a lot of the psychosocial group dynamics we see. The right wing especially is motivated by this fear of others discovering who they are diddling, and furtherance of the sexual fetishes. They instinctually recognize each other and group together.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:37 AM

25. Great post

and guess what - this is a global problem

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:41 AM

27. KnR

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:43 AM

28. The Wolves and the Sheep.

Thank you for sharing your memories, Doctor.

Remember Kubrick’s “Eyes Wide Shut?” The film showed the absolute corruption of the elite.

Jeffrey Epstein. Dennis Hastert. Mark Foley. John David Roy Atchison. Jimmy Savile. DC Madame. John Bolton. Roy Cohn... my keypad smells like sulfur.

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Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:52 AM

33. Yep

And Stanley died immediately after finishing the film

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Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 08:55 PM

57. I saw "Eyes Wide Shut" a few days ago and can't stop thinking about it.

There's so much in the movie I don't understand. It's bugging me.

On the one hand, I think: why would rich and powerful people go to all the trouble of a secret society for fucking? Don't they have anything better to do? On the other, I think of the real-life examples, like Epstein. Maybe they don't have anything better to do. Maybe at that level of power something happens to weak people.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:48 AM

30. that's how evolution designed us. that's why politics was invented

by our hairy ancestors.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:51 AM

31. It is very sad

What women and children endure in this world, shameful😢🙁

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:01 PM

35. I agree; this sort of exploitation runs deep and wide, and is more common than most people realize

Where I used to live, there was a large group of very wealthy and influential professional men with a preference for young children, usually boys, and their crimes flew under the radar. Unfortunately, I had personal knowledge of it’s existence. Given what I learned about this sort of malevolent criminal activity, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if the Gaetz story turns out to be a small thread in a much larger web.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 12:14 PM

36. Look no further than the Catholic Church to see

the breadth and depth of this abuse. It is worldwide and pervasive. The power structure does everything it can to keep the abuse available to those who want it. Fucking disgusting.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 01:03 PM

41. I'm from South Jersey and went to private Catholic High School where I met

my wife. This was about the same time period as Kavenaugh sexually assaulting women and was getting black out drunk. As a football player and at the center of the schools social scene, until I met the future wife, I saw quite a few coaches “hooking up” with students at after game parties. It bothered me then and still does. Catholic Co-Ed high school in the Philadelphia-South Jersey region in the mid-70’s was a free for all. Drugs, alcohol, groups of male students grabbing and mauling female students in cars was common. Then you had teachers and students hooking up along with at least one catholic priest who was our theology teacher and golf coach was later charged with sexually assaulting a boy on the golf team during an away golf tournament. I’m not the most devout of Catholics but the priest who was charged was very charismatic and I admired the easy way he teaches theology remarking that the Bible isn’t a history book but rather a tool to teach. What I’m getting at is this particular priest was the “cool priest” kind of like Dean Martin demeanor and very easily seduced young, vulnerable boys, a real r

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 01:04 PM

42. I'm from South Jersey and went to private Catholic High School where I met

my wife. This was about the same time period as Kavenaugh sexually assaulting women and was getting black out drunk. As a football player and at the center of the schools social scene, until I met the future wife, I saw quite a few coaches “hooking up” with students at after game parties. It bothered me then and still does. Catholic Co-Ed high school in the Philadelphia-South Jersey region in the mid-70’s was a free for all. Drugs, alcohol, groups of male students grabbing and mauling female students in cars was common. Then you had teachers and students hooking up along with at least one catholic priest who was our theology teacher and golf coach was later charged with sexually assaulting a boy on the golf team during an away golf tournament. I’m not the most devout of Catholics but the priest who was charged was very charismatic and I admired the easy way he teaches theology remarking that the Bible isn’t a history book but rather a tool to teach. What I’m getting at is this particular priest was the “cool priest” kind of like Dean Martin demeanor and very easily seduced young, vulnerable boys, a real predator with a white collar.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 06:38 PM

49. The only thing which amazes me in all of this

is the number of people who are just now coming to this conclusion. Has not this been obvious to everyone since the Garden of Eden was vacated? It was once customary to provide old men with young sex slaves to restore their youth, and not just in some cultures. You can find it in the Bible, certainly.

If the two-pronged fact that (a) the GOP is known for projection - look at what they are decrying and you will see what they are doing, and (b) the GOP claim that Democrats are all a ring of pedophiles (In fact, pedophiles isn't a strong enough accusation - baby-killing, face-eating pedophiles).

The truth is that power and access to sex have gone hand in hand all through recorded history, and probably long before that. This is not new.

What is new is the entire concept of consent. Not just consent to sex, but consent to anything. Whose consent to a business transaction is or is not valid ... the requirement that certain contracts must carry a cooling-off period... that one must be a certain age before one can complete a financial transaction...and what age that would be...all this is quite new. From antiquity we have "Caveat emptor."

And consent to medical procedures, whether or not those procedures are part of a study. We all know the name Tuskegee, and that is was not only the base of the Tuskegee Airmen, but of - something else. We've all heard of Henrietta lacks, surely.

And the concept of consent is not yet a legal standard. Only this week a judge ruled that if a woman freely agreed to drink alcohol, then anything that happened to her after that decision was nor and could not be rape.

Granted that there have always been people who were repulsed and appalled at the conjunction of power and sociopathy, yet it has always been known that this is just how the world works, like it or not.

We have a lot more growing up to do before we can call ourselves civilized, I think.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 06:53 PM

51. PCIntern....

......Very well-stated composition regarding what you encountered and your thoughts on the various situations in which we currently find ourselves.

Here on DU, we have often contemplated and speculated what in the HELL has been going on for these Republicans to fight like their lives depended on it defending a lunatic like trump. I mean it's been SO over the top! When Gaetz wore that ridiculous gas mask making fun of sensible people who believe in wearing appropriate masks to prevent spreading COVID, I thought to myself there's something REALLY wrong with that guy!

There's no telling what kind of dirt is on these people. I hope the Justice Dept. is aggressive in their pursuit for the truth..

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:12 PM

52. Yes, yes, yes very thoughtful post

Power has corrupted so many causing those individuals to use their sex to outwit and confuse. All the while acting like a friend or confidant. What start's as a pleasant conversation grows into seemingly harmless attention and compliments and then... How many women have been sexually harassed and not known what was going on until that horrible sneaking feelings became full blown terror. Those who you thought you could look up to and trust turn out to be nothing but dogs. My sincere apologies to dogs, they never have ulterior motives.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:14 PM

53. Kickin' with gusto!

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:58 PM

55. When I was a senior in high school

in 1968-69, my boyfriend told me once of having gone over to a girl classmate's house to find the drama instructor there. We were all active in the drama club. It was pretty common knowledge that this girl was his "favorite". Was there some hanky panky going on? Probably.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:34 PM

59. Yes, you have a story. Certainly didn't mislead us with that.

You'll forgive me if I feel more creeped out than I do enlightened. I'm now even more into the idea of Baby Gaetz learning some of the ins and outs of the penal system. No pun intended.

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