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Nevilledog

(50,685 posts)
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:16 PM Apr 2021

MN Governor: 'Stop Pretending' We Can't Do Anything to Stop This



Tweet text:
Khashoggi’s Ghost
@UROCKlive1
MN Gov. Calls for Police Reform Hearings After Daunte Wright Killing: ‘Stop Pretending’ We Can’t Do Anything to Stop This

MN Gov. Calls for Police Reform Hearings After Daunte Wright Killing: ‘Stop Pretending’ We Can’t Do...
Minnesota Governor Tim Walz spoke on the killing of Daunte Wright on Monday afternoon and called on the state legislature to hold hearings on police reform to prevent future tragedies.
mediaite.com
2:11 PM · Apr 12, 2021


https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mn-gov-calls-for-police-reform-hearings-after-daunte-wright-killing-stop-pretending-we-cant-do-anything-to-stop-this/


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MN Governor: 'Stop Pretending' We Can't Do Anything to Stop This (Original Post) Nevilledog Apr 2021 OP
The system is not reformable. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #1
Systems change all the time. Phoenix61 Apr 2021 #2
When a system is built on white supremacy to uphold the white supremacy around it, abolition WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #4
So we get rid of law enforcement? nt Phoenix61 Apr 2021 #5
Yes. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #7
And do what? nt Phoenix61 Apr 2021 #8
About what? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #10
Seriously? You said we should get rid of law enforcement. Phoenix61 Apr 2021 #11
Because law enforcement does little to deter those kind of crimes, we have to look at why they WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #14
Okay, but ShazzieB Apr 2021 #18
"But getting rid of it entirely is not the answer." WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #22
If it isn't self evident why a country without any law enforcement would be a chaotic mess, ShazzieB Apr 2021 #25
Law enforcement is not what keeps me from chaos. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #29
Nonsense. Without some form of law enforcement, wnylib Apr 2021 #27
Is law enforcement's mission to provide vengeance? They certainly provide some form of gang- WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #30
Just the opposite. Part of their wnylib Apr 2021 #34
. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #35
The cops show up after those things happen. gldstwmn Apr 2021 #41
I've never said law enforcement was a deterrent. Phoenix61 Apr 2021 #43
We kind of saw what happens... TheRealNorth Apr 2021 #9
Simply getting rid of the cops isn't how to build a world without cops. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #12
Good luck with that. whathehell Apr 2021 #19
Don't I know it. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #20
..Then why do you imagine that would change? whathehell Apr 2021 #24
Because there are a lot of things we haven't tried that could work. We have to keep trying. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #28
Keep your eye on Maryland where the legislature overrode a veto and made a great first . . . . . Stinky The Clown Apr 2021 #3
The only thing in that article I see directly attempting to end cop violence is the end of no-knock WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #6
And it seems to be, with body cams, they have to be turned ON to do any good. calimary Apr 2021 #46
Yes it is, just do what the US military MPs do. Here's a list uponit7771 Apr 2021 #15
I'd like to add a 5th point. Gore1FL Apr 2021 #21
Yep that should be against the law period. That's predatory uponit7771 Apr 2021 #40
This is another excellent idea. calimary Apr 2021 #48
Best post I've seen on this subject because you have provided a working alterntive. intheflow Apr 2021 #38
..👍🏼 uponit7771 Apr 2021 #39
I saw on Twitter last night that the notice gldstwmn Apr 2021 #42
+1, uponit7771 Apr 2021 #44
VERY good ideas! calimary Apr 2021 #47
Okay. Done. Stinky The Clown Apr 2021 #13
The thin blue line and police unions. underpants Apr 2021 #16
Maybe if we paid them to stay home /nt bucolic_frolic Apr 2021 #17
I watch a lot of British detective cop shows and they always call out the "armed response teams" if Pepsidog Apr 2021 #23
The warrent was for a misdemeanor gun charge, not a traffic warrent dflprincess Apr 2021 #31
Thanks for the correction. Pepsidog Apr 2021 #36
Makes me wonder how the cops handled the original gun charge wellst0nev0ter Apr 2021 #45
More Americans have guns than the British IronLionZion Apr 2021 #37
Good discussion. I think the US being AWASH with weapons changes the whole picture. Add Evolve Dammit Apr 2021 #26
Calls for "police reform" will have as much impact as . . . AverageOldGuy Apr 2021 #32
Glenn Kirschner, on his "Justice Matters" podcast, soldierant Apr 2021 #33

Phoenix61

(16,953 posts)
2. Systems change all the time.
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:25 PM
Apr 2021

The question is whether or not they have the wisdom to make the decisions that will result in systemic change. Then they have to act on those decisions. Not easy but definitely not impossible.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
4. When a system is built on white supremacy to uphold the white supremacy around it, abolition
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:26 PM
Apr 2021

is the better route than reform.

Phoenix61

(16,953 posts)
11. Seriously? You said we should get rid of law enforcement.
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:44 PM
Apr 2021

So no one is going to steal, kill, rape, abuse children or their spouses etc.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
14. Because law enforcement does little to deter those kind of crimes, we have to look at why they
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:57 PM
Apr 2021

happen. We get ahead of the problem and meet people's needs before they become violent. Why do people steal, kill, rape? If we spent cop money on those causes instead of the aftermath, we wouldn't need cops.

ShazzieB

(15,958 posts)
18. Okay, but
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:36 PM
Apr 2021

I agree that law enforcement does little to deter certain kinds of crimes. But getting rid of it entirely is not the answer. Which is just as well, because there's no way enough people would ever agree to support such a plan.

Lots of reform is needed, for law enforcement and the whole criminal justice system. The way cops are recruited and trained needs to change drastically. And yes, reallocation of some of the money now earmarked for policing is a good idea, But just eliminate law enforcement entirely? No way. Even IF people could somehow be talked into it (fat chance), the results would be chaos.

Ain't gonna happen, and wouldn't have the results you're proposing if it did.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
22. "But getting rid of it entirely is not the answer."
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:49 PM
Apr 2021

Why not?

wouldn't have the results you're proposing if it did.
I disagree. People are generally pretty good at taking care of themselves and each other, especially when their needs are met.

ShazzieB

(15,958 posts)
25. If it isn't self evident why a country without any law enforcement would be a chaotic mess,
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:06 PM
Apr 2021

I really don't think anything I say would be convincing.

Have a nice day.

wnylib

(21,146 posts)
27. Nonsense. Without some form of law enforcement,
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:45 PM
Apr 2021

the way people would take care of themselves and each other is through eye for an eye vengeance. This would lead to gang warfare type of "justice." It would be like having the Mafia in charge.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
30. Is law enforcement's mission to provide vengeance? They certainly provide some form of gang-
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:58 PM
Apr 2021

warfare "justice." But for whom?

wnylib

(21,146 posts)
34. Just the opposite. Part of their
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:58 PM
Apr 2021

responsibility is to prevent vengence, or vigilante type justice. That's why cops who have personal agendas on the job have to be removed from police forces.

Fortunately, as another poster said, society will never try out your utopian wish. But if you believe so strongly in it, why not try your own experiment with it? Recruit a group of people to create a small village. All ages and a variety of ethnicities, singles and families. Find a location to set yourseves up. Maybe you could pool together your funds or do a fund raiser to buy up a ranch or large farm where you can locate your village. There will be local jurisdictions, but you can all agree to not call law enforcement for anything. Set an example to the world of how it should be done.

It sounds to me like you could be either too naive to deal with the realities of human nature or just enjoy trolling people. Either way, there is no point in debating it. Have a nice day.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
35. .
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:02 PM
Apr 2021
Part of their responsibility is to prevent vengence, or vigilante type justice.
Then why are they killing people over and over again? Over expired tabs, a counterfeit bill, loose cigarettes? Because cops provide vigilante justice for capital, not people.

But if you believe so strongly in it, why not try your own experiment with it?
I have. In the past couple years -- since I've learned about abolition -- in instances where I might have otherwise called the police, I've worked to find ways to not do so. It's not easy! But so far, it's worked for me.

It sounds to me like you could be either too naive to deal with the realities of human nature or just enjoy trolling people.
Sorry to hear I come across that way. I disagree about your assessment of human nature, though. As humans, we tend to empathize and want to help each other. "Survival of the fittest" for humans means survival of those who can collaborate and provide mutual aid to each other. As humans, we have to learn to hurt each other, and we hurt each other when our needs aren't met. If we can break the cycle of learning how to hurt, we can move toward a world without police.

Have a nice day.
And you as well.

Phoenix61

(16,953 posts)
43. I've never said law enforcement was a deterrent.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:53 AM
Apr 2021

Preventing crime is one thing. Dealing with those who commit it is another.
Take methadone. It would never be used as a preventative but it is an effective treatment.

TheRealNorth

(9,435 posts)
9. We kind of saw what happens...
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:38 PM
Apr 2021

When the police are hiding in their cop shop because of the big bad protestors.

The criminal elements see it as a license to run amok and start plundering.

Not saying we shouldn't fire a bunch of the cops, but I think we still need law enforcement. Otherwise we are going to have even less-trained militias or security services patrolling our streets.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
12. Simply getting rid of the cops isn't how to build a world without cops.
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:51 PM
Apr 2021

It takes change across other systems to ensure we don't need cops.

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
24. ..Then why do you imagine that would change?
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:55 PM
Apr 2021

I get the need for a better society, but there's never been a
completely crime free society, and, there never will be. The spectre of violent crime, especially, necessitates law enforcement.

Stinky The Clown

(67,682 posts)
3. Keep your eye on Maryland where the legislature overrode a veto and made a great first . . . . .
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:26 PM
Apr 2021

. . . . . step. They ended to Police Officers Bill of Rights. That was a biggie. They also now require all agencies wear body cams.

Read about it here, from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/11/politics/maryland-police-reform-laws-override-veto/index.html

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,146 posts)
6. The only thing in that article I see directly attempting to end cop violence is the end of no-knock
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:31 PM
Apr 2021

warrants. That's a good one. But body cams (by 2025??) don't reduce cop violence. Nibbling around the edges.

calimary

(80,699 posts)
46. And it seems to be, with body cams, they have to be turned ON to do any good.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 02:27 PM
Apr 2021

There should be some mechanism that thwarts an officer’s ability to “forget” to turn on his/her body cam.

We’ve seen this multiple times.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
15. Yes it is, just do what the US military MPs do. Here's a list
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 05:57 PM
Apr 2021

1. End low level offense interactions with armed police officers, in this case the guy should've been allowed to go and just send out a warrant for him to be picked up. He wasn't an armed threat and their wasn't a history of violence in the warrant

2. Any officer that doesn't take the path of least escalation gets fired and exposed to the law, period. The rest of the world has to live up to path of least force in an instant in regards to ability to flee so should the police.

3. stop the policing of mostly black communities with mostly white PDs, at this point that's oppressive behavior historically and there are too many 88ers in too many PDs. Pay PoC officers a shit ton money to live and police communities they live in

4. Look at what the Military Police are doing and repeat it nationwide. We don't see unarmed shooting of PoC in military police for a reason and it's mostly because the respect the MPs have to give the community they're policing. The US military leadership is diverse enough where MPs can't just harass any PoC at will and have to watch their P's & Q's and follow training and rules.

Gore1FL

(21,032 posts)
21. I'd like to add a 5th point.
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:44 PM
Apr 2021

5> Stop using law enforcement as a fund generator. No budget should balance by relying on people breaking the law. Taxes need to fund society, not the proceeds of arbitrary police stops.

intheflow

(28,407 posts)
38. Best post I've seen on this subject because you have provided a working alterntive.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 10:33 AM
Apr 2021

It's still not the full defund I'd like to see of PDs, but it's a start and would work very well with defunding efforts that would redistribute funds to social services (mental health, anti-poverty, demilitarized schools, etc.). Thank you.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
42. I saw on Twitter last night that the notice
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 11:41 AM
Apr 2021

for the Zoom hearing was sent to the wrong address and returned. Did he even know he missed his court date?

underpants

(182,279 posts)
16. The thin blue line and police unions.
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:19 PM
Apr 2021

The cops know who the “bad apples” are. They bide them or just move them elsewhere rather than getting rid of them. When they screw up it’s not public information even when taken to court. Cities and counties keep paying for repeated mistakes because they often can’t fix the problem.

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
23. I watch a lot of British detective cop shows and they always call out the "armed response teams" if
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 06:53 PM
Apr 2021

such a thing exists whenever they have a dangerous situation. Cops stopped, for the most part, high speed chases due to the danger involved. Since when does a kid running from a traffic stop warrant even a taser? I would love to know the statistics regarding use of weapons by cops and the justification for them.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
31. The warrent was for a misdemeanor gun charge, not a traffic warrent
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:12 PM
Apr 2021

(carrying a pistol without a permit).

I can see where that might have made the officers a bit more cautious when they first approached him but, as you said, didn't mean they had to pull any weapon (taser or gun) when he tried to get away from them.

IronLionZion

(45,259 posts)
37. More Americans have guns than the British
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 10:20 AM
Apr 2021

Americans cops assume everyone is trying to kill them. It's a crazy way to live. Plus a certain type of person wants to be an American cop. It isn't always about service or safety. Sometimes it's because they want power and authority.

Evolve Dammit

(16,632 posts)
26. Good discussion. I think the US being AWASH with weapons changes the whole picture. Add
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 07:35 PM
Apr 2021

disinformation, Faux News, Limbaugh brainwashing for decades and you have millions of white people convinced they are victims and need to make a stand before it is too late. It is tragic really.

AverageOldGuy

(1,462 posts)
32. Calls for "police reform" will have as much impact as . . .
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:12 PM
Apr 2021

. . . calls for gun legislation after a school shooting.

soldierant

(6,648 posts)
33. Glenn Kirschner, on his "Justice Matters" podcast,
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:16 PM
Apr 2021

spoke on this subject yesterday, and it left quite an impression on me. It wasn't Daunte but Lt. Nazario in Virginia whose incident hit him so hard.

He is so calm and rational - I don't think I have ever seen him this passionate (and he admitted his blood was boiling.)

And I agree with his proposals - for what that's worth.

It's only eleven minutes - not a huge chunk out of one's day.

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