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Better negotiating with Joe Manchin to get things passed than have to count on Susan Collins (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Oct 2021 OP
and better not to negotiate through our illustrious media JohnSJ Oct 2021 #1
THIS Right Here. ⬆️ Budi Oct 2021 #4
Sad fucking state of affairs if that's where we are at berni_mccoy Oct 2021 #2
yep Tom Rinaldo Oct 2021 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Oct 2021 #23
I think Manchin IS our Collins AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #3
Yes. He is. But he does vote with us. She doesn't most of the time. Hortensis Oct 2021 #6
That's kind of my point AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #9
Yes. And when she deviates it's because she's allowed to Hortensis Oct 2021 #12
It didn't result in his conviction, so I assume so AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #14
The only time she votes with Dems is if she gets a hall pass wellst0nev0ter Oct 2021 #20
Exactly. AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #21
The 2 don't even compare. 🙄 Budi Oct 2021 #10
Right. No comparison. Hortensis Oct 2021 #13
Nope. Not when you look at their record of voting. Budi Oct 2021 #17
It's NOT just Manchin. Budi Oct 2021 #7
Interesting way of looking at it. Tom Rinaldo Oct 2021 #8
And if we didn't need Manchin's (and Sinema's) votes, they'd be released to vote against AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #11
I don't trust Sinema, but Manchin wouldn't vote against if he could. Hortensis Oct 2021 #16
I'm giving Sinema quite a bit of latitude AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #19
Quite spot on DFW Oct 2021 #15
Count on Collins? Not in the equation. However we still have a Cinema problem. Raven123 Oct 2021 #18
Just like it's better to get one red-hot spike stabbed into one eye than it is to get two... Silent3 Oct 2021 #22
 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
4. THIS Right Here. ⬆️
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:30 PM
Oct 2021
Negotiating via our Big Corporate owned Media. 🤬

Stop grandstanding for the Media & get the fk back to work. With their fat taxpayer gifted payckecks, they better start showing their worth. Get tf off their high horses & start moving this country forward.
Call the vote & let the grandstanders show their hand.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
5. yep
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:31 PM
Oct 2021

Even so some good things have been/will be possible compared to where we would have been had we lost even one of those Georgia January runoff seats.

The 2022 map is such that Dems could actually pick up a Senate seat of two if we have a good year. Assuming we can hold the House more possibilities could start opening up then

Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #5)

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,814 posts)
3. I think Manchin IS our Collins
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:26 PM
Oct 2021

He's going to hem and haw, be concerned, demand concessions, and eventually vote with us.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. Yes. He is. But he does vote with us. She doesn't most of the time.
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:35 PM
Oct 2021

He's also very known and dependable to his Democratic colleagues. He's famous for his position that if he can explain it to his people in WV he'll vote for it. If he can't, he won't.

Collins, push come to shove, will dependably sell out her principles to be allowed to keep her seat. She serves McConnell first.

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,814 posts)
9. That's kind of my point
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:37 PM
Oct 2021

Collins will hem and haw, be concerned, flirt with the opposition (from her perspective) and then vote with her party anyway.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Yes. And when she deviates it's because she's allowed to
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:41 PM
Oct 2021

in order to protect her seat from backlash at home. That said, I haven't read if her vote to impeach tRump fit that pattern or not.

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,814 posts)
14. It didn't result in his conviction, so I assume so
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:44 PM
Oct 2021

Like Manchin's vote for Boof - it didn't make any difference, but it was probably the only reason he survived in 2018.

 

wellst0nev0ter

(7,509 posts)
20. The only time she votes with Dems is if she gets a hall pass
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 06:29 PM
Oct 2021

Every other time, she's a hard right trumpanzee just like the rest of them.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
7. It's NOT just Manchin.
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:35 PM
Oct 2021

There's a bunch of gransdstanders addicted to seeing themselves on the Corporate Media daily TV parade lineup.

Stfu & go earn your damned big fat taxpayer gifted paychecks.

Call the vote & see who gives 2 shits about starting to move this country forward.
Bit by bit if it must be.

Biden's BBB plan shouldn't even be a difficult decision.


Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
8. Interesting way of looking at it.
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:36 PM
Oct 2021

I think you are right, except that Republicans had a vote or two to spare when they last controlled the Senate, so they seldom needed her vote (but it did happen.)

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,814 posts)
11. And if we didn't need Manchin's (and Sinema's) votes, they'd be released to vote against
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:38 PM
Oct 2021

I don't believe they will be the ones to sink Biden's agenda, but they'll stretch it out as far as possible. But if they weren't needed, Schumer would let them vote against it, as long as they weren't the deciding votes.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. I don't trust Sinema, but Manchin wouldn't vote against if he could.
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:48 PM
Oct 2021

He's very solid in red WV, well liked as governor, well liked as senator, reelected with strong support. It's a red state. He could always have run as a Republican -- and be a member of a 51-49 Republican majority caucus controlled by McConnell now -- but didn't.

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,814 posts)
19. I'm giving Sinema quite a bit of latitude
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 06:10 PM
Oct 2021

And I'll admit that. I'll also cut my support if she does sink Biden's agenda. But for all her maverick-ey posturing she tends to come home in the end.

It's her silence on everything (except being criticized for her silence) that is frustrating. For all the leaks from anonymous staffers she doesn't show her cards, and I think she's playing petty politics over being criticized for everything right now.

She's certainly earned a lot of legit criticism (her unresponsiveness and unavailability to her constituents, poor image management and responses to criticism) - but some of it is sexist (the way she dresses), some of it is contextual (I think some of her fundraising criticisms are more of the same things every member of Congress does regularly) and some is pure speculation (she's a secret Republican who started as a Green to infiltrate the party from the left, etc).

That said, if she's basing the whole performance on McCain's sinking the Obamacare repeal, she IS setting us up for an embarassing fall.
But I think Biden and Schumer are cleverer than Turtle and TFG.

DFW

(54,057 posts)
15. Quite spot on
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:44 PM
Oct 2021

For all her “concern” about her own party’s disgusting excesses, she has voted for those excesses when the time came to either stand up to, or with, Mitch McTurtle. For all his posturing, Manchin does tend vote with his party.

Silent3

(15,020 posts)
22. Just like it's better to get one red-hot spike stabbed into one eye than it is to get two...
Mon Oct 18, 2021, 06:41 PM
Oct 2021

...red-hot spikes stabbed into both eyes. Better, but not the kind of better you cheer about.

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