HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Better negotiating with J...

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:14 PM

Better negotiating with Joe Manchin to get things passed than have to count on Susan Collins

For better and for worse, that kind of sums it up.

23 replies, 572 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Better negotiating with Joe Manchin to get things passed than have to count on Susan Collins (Original post)
Tom Rinaldo Oct 18 OP
JohnSJ Oct 18 #1
Budi Oct 18 #4
berni_mccoy Oct 18 #2
Tom Rinaldo Oct 18 #5
Chin music Oct 18 #23
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #3
Hortensis Oct 18 #6
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #9
Hortensis Oct 18 #12
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #14
wellst0nev0ter Oct 18 #20
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #21
Budi Oct 18 #10
Hortensis Oct 18 #13
Budi Oct 18 #17
Budi Oct 18 #7
Tom Rinaldo Oct 18 #8
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #11
Hortensis Oct 18 #16
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 18 #19
DFW Oct 18 #15
Raven123 Oct 18 #18
Silent3 Oct 18 #22

Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:18 PM

1. and better not to negotiate through our illustrious media

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JohnSJ (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:30 PM

4. THIS Right Here. ⬆️

Negotiating via our Big Corporate owned Media. 🤬

Stop grandstanding for the Media & get the fk back to work. With their fat taxpayer gifted payckecks, they better start showing their worth. Get tf off their high horses & start moving this country forward.
Call the vote & let the grandstanders show their hand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:19 PM

2. Sad fucking state of affairs if that's where we are at

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:31 PM

5. yep

Even so some good things have been/will be possible compared to where we would have been had we lost even one of those Georgia January runoff seats.

The 2022 map is such that Dems could actually pick up a Senate seat of two if we have a good year. Assuming we can hold the House more possibilities could start opening up then

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #5)


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:26 PM

3. I think Manchin IS our Collins

He's going to hem and haw, be concerned, demand concessions, and eventually vote with us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:35 PM

6. Yes. He is. But he does vote with us. She doesn't most of the time.

He's also very known and dependable to his Democratic colleagues. He's famous for his position that if he can explain it to his people in WV he'll vote for it. If he can't, he won't.

Collins, push come to shove, will dependably sell out her principles to be allowed to keep her seat. She serves McConnell first.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:37 PM

9. That's kind of my point

Collins will hem and haw, be concerned, flirt with the opposition (from her perspective) and then vote with her party anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:41 PM

12. Yes. And when she deviates it's because she's allowed to

in order to protect her seat from backlash at home. That said, I haven't read if her vote to impeach tRump fit that pattern or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:44 PM

14. It didn't result in his conviction, so I assume so

Like Manchin's vote for Boof - it didn't make any difference, but it was probably the only reason he survived in 2018.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:29 PM

20. The only time she votes with Dems is if she gets a hall pass

Every other time, she's a hard right trumpanzee just like the rest of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #20)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:30 PM

21. Exactly.

We should never expect her vote, and wooing her won't sway legislation one way or the other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:38 PM

10. The 2 don't even compare. 🙄

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:42 PM

13. Right. No comparison.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:48 PM

17. Nope. Not when you look at their record of voting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:35 PM

7. It's NOT just Manchin.

There's a bunch of gransdstanders addicted to seeing themselves on the Corporate Media daily TV parade lineup.

Stfu & go earn your damned big fat taxpayer gifted paychecks.

Call the vote & see who gives 2 shits about starting to move this country forward.
Bit by bit if it must be.

Biden's BBB plan shouldn't even be a difficult decision.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:36 PM

8. Interesting way of looking at it.

I think you are right, except that Republicans had a vote or two to spare when they last controlled the Senate, so they seldom needed her vote (but it did happen.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:38 PM

11. And if we didn't need Manchin's (and Sinema's) votes, they'd be released to vote against

I don't believe they will be the ones to sink Biden's agenda, but they'll stretch it out as far as possible. But if they weren't needed, Schumer would let them vote against it, as long as they weren't the deciding votes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:48 PM

16. I don't trust Sinema, but Manchin wouldn't vote against if he could.

He's very solid in red WV, well liked as governor, well liked as senator, reelected with strong support. It's a red state. He could always have run as a Republican -- and be a member of a 51-49 Republican majority caucus controlled by McConnell now -- but didn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:10 PM

19. I'm giving Sinema quite a bit of latitude

And I'll admit that. I'll also cut my support if she does sink Biden's agenda. But for all her maverick-ey posturing she tends to come home in the end.

It's her silence on everything (except being criticized for her silence) that is frustrating. For all the leaks from anonymous staffers she doesn't show her cards, and I think she's playing petty politics over being criticized for everything right now.

She's certainly earned a lot of legit criticism (her unresponsiveness and unavailability to her constituents, poor image management and responses to criticism) - but some of it is sexist (the way she dresses), some of it is contextual (I think some of her fundraising criticisms are more of the same things every member of Congress does regularly) and some is pure speculation (she's a secret Republican who started as a Green to infiltrate the party from the left, etc).

That said, if she's basing the whole performance on McCain's sinking the Obamacare repeal, she IS setting us up for an embarassing fall.
But I think Biden and Schumer are cleverer than Turtle and TFG.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 04:44 PM

15. Quite spot on

For all her “concern” about her own party’s disgusting excesses, she has voted for those excesses when the time came to either stand up to, or with, Mitch McTurtle. For all his posturing, Manchin does tend vote with his party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:01 PM

18. Count on Collins? Not in the equation. However we still have a Cinema problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Mon Oct 18, 2021, 05:41 PM

22. Just like it's better to get one red-hot spike stabbed into one eye than it is to get two...

...red-hot spikes stabbed into both eyes. Better, but not the kind of better you cheer about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread