General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Belichick text has exposed what most of us already know about the NFL.
Belichick's text is the receipt.
Check out the Brian Flores case. It's all over the media.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)If he hadnt misdirected that text he never would have revealed the banality of this evil.
I hope Flores cleans up so much it shakes the whole sports industry.
You should provide a link tho since you brought it up
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,153 posts)Generic Brad
(14,270 posts)He's hiring the next coach. Not embarrassing.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,153 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,153 posts)SallyHemmings
(1,813 posts)The OWNERS are not going to have anyone tell them who to hire.
Until the players walk there will never be change.
Fix The Stupid
(947 posts)"70% of NFL players are black"
"3% of head coaches are black"
So what's the magic # we are looking for? Is it 50% head coaches need to be black? or 70%?
What about the inverse?
"30% of NFL players are white"
How is this fair to the white players? Shouldn't we be aiming for at least 50% white players for "equity"?
I can already see the replies to that above question, lol;
"If the white players are not good enough to compete at the professional level, you can't just force the teams to play them!"... without a hint of irony, mind you...
I applaud Flores for risking his career on this move though. You wanna bet the NFL is squirming right now...
I've always felt that certain games were not "rigged" in the classic sense, but definitely "steered" towards a certain outcome...as any Lions fan will agree with.
Let's open this up and see where it goes...shine some light into that cesspool.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)One of the first big problems I dealt with in HR at an employer.
We generally give management a lot of leeway when promoting into their sections. We tend to promote internally, and there's a lot of opportunity for people who start entry level to move up to better positions, different sections, etc. where they make better money. Other managers or supervisors will give recommendations and encourage people to apply for open positions. Since we're office types and don't see what goes on in production, we generally take the various managers' and supervisors' word for it, barring any red flags or obvious questions.
Well, this one manager kept promoting people of her own race for the better part of two years. Two supervisors noted it to us. There had been a lot of turnover in the department, so we looked and asked around. Who's applying for the positions?
Well, turns out people of all different races were being encouraged to apply and did apply under this manager. They received floor interviews Eventually. They were always getting put off for one reason or another, and it could take people two months to get a floor review. Should've taken one or two weeks at worst. But she kept right on going hiring only people from her racial group. The people she was hiring had demonstrably less experience or time at the company. There was - shocking - also a lot of turnover under her. She wasn't hiring based on if it was a good worker. It was totally and clearly race-based. Only 10% of those under her were of a different race. Given production's racial demographics . . . let's just say it did not scan.
So, HR took the interviewing and hiring for her department over directly. It was fun. She was pissed, said we were targeting her, etc. Whole ass ache of a thing.
But we ended up with a department that looked more like the rest of the company, and there is a lot less turnover in it these days. She quit last year after telling my boss to kiss her ass and that she wasn't "going to be watched."
Oh well.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... there were 74 million Americans who didn't think racism was a deal breaker in the head office.
JT45242
(2,173 posts)If there can be video of Kraft assaulting massage girls and he not only walks but all charges are dropped and never see trial -- why would anyone associated with him (or the power wing of the NFL -- Kraft, Jones, Rooney) thing that there are actual consequences for actions.
EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS THE ROONEY RULE WAS ONLY FOR SHOW.
Zeitghost
(3,796 posts)He made a text to the wrong guy. It exposed some other shenanigans, but that had nothing to do with Belichick.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)I don't know what to tell you, Belichick knew what he was doing.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)revealed all this? Why? To break this open?
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)ecstatic
(32,567 posts)If Belichick purposely texted Brian Flores. After all, they did have history together.
BradAllison
(1,879 posts)But he "texted the wrong Brian".....
Please.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)I just saw the tail end of this on Morning Joe, but must have missed the text part. Is that what started this?
milestogo
(16,829 posts)If you want people to check something out, provide a link.
Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)Yeah, I didn't know what was going on either.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/02/01/bill-belichick-accidental-text-message-brian-flores-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-giants-brian-daboll-hiring/
The lawsuit showed text messages of Belichick sending congratulations to Flores for landing the Giants job on Jan. 24. That text was sent two days prior to Flores actually interviewing for the job.
After Flores initially appeared confused by the text message, he asked Belichick, Coach, are you talking to Brian Flores or Brian Daboll. Just making sure.
Belichick replied: Sorry I fed this up. I double checked & I misread the text. I think they are naming Daboll. Im sorry about that. BB
The lawsuit alleges that Flores was then forced to sit through a dinner with Joe Schoen, the Giants [sic] new General Manager, knowing that the Giants had already selected Mr. Daboll. Much worse, on Thursday, January 27, 2022, Mr. Flores had to give an extensive interview for a job that he already knew he would not get an interview that was held for no reason other than for the Giants to demonstrate falsely to the League Commissioner Roger Goodell and the public at large that it was in compliance with the Rooney rule.
The Rooney Rule from Wikipedia:
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is an example of affirmative action, even though there is no hiring quota or hiring preference given to minorities, only an interviewing quota. It was established in 2003, and variations of the rule are now in place in other industries.
luv2fly
(2,475 posts)This kind of writing requires greater detail. "Forced?" He's a grown man, I am sure he makes his own decisions and going into this believing someone else was already hired, wouldn't that be the first question for any reasonable person to inquire about?
And then there is this: "Mr. Flores had to give an extensive interview for a job that he already knew he would not get..." - again, "had to?" I would assume he could opt out, or as referenced above, make the interview about the elephant in the room. No indication of that though.
Something is missing or it's just lousy journalism.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,153 posts)Nixie
(16,920 posts)away with some phone calls about my upcoming interview when the position was already filled. How was he forced?
I totally agree about the writing.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)it could have had detrimental affects on his career.
yardwork
(61,420 posts)It sounds like he learned of other evidence after he didn't get the job. At the point he received the text, he didn't know for certain.
dwayneb
(766 posts)If I had been in Flores situation I would have done the same thing. Make them conduct their fake interview, setting the stage for an effective lawsuit. I am betting Flores thought about that after he received that mistaken text from Belichick.
Those fake interviews will give him a lot more ammunition in his civil suit against the NFL.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)assistant coach it seems
? and Bill B was their head coach, so maybe he just thought he was congratulating a former underling/colleague, not congratulating him as a white guy. ?
Oh well, not enough to go on. Im sure there is racism in the NFL, but does Bills text prove that ?
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,153 posts)The text shows the Giants had already made their decision before they even interviewed Flores.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)It was that a decision was already made and he was scheduled for interview few days later.
It becomes apparent they were only using Flores to check a box due to the Rooney rule. It was a complete waste of time and they were using him based on the color of his skin.
Add in that there is only one black head coach in the entire NFL and it shows a pattern of bias.
rgbecker
(4,806 posts)I hope Flores' legal action hits a few marks along the way.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)involved, it would be good if he has other examples besides that team since theyve dominated football so much, Id imagine anyone from their ranks would be given priority consideration regardless.
I guess well find out why Flores even went to the interview if he knew it was filled. Canceling would have put them in more of a bind if they were trying to fill a quota with the Rooney rule, it seems.
But the bias is pretty obvious, so it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Solomon
(12,305 posts)If he refused to go on the interview everyone would say what's he complaining about? He took himself out of it. I find the argument that he wasn't forced and could have just walked away ridiculous and belittling. You have to dot the i's and cross the t's. Why should he have let them off the hook by walking away?
Nixie
(16,920 posts)was forced. Why take away from your case with inappropriate wording. He was forced to sit through a dinner or some such wording. Its more he was mislead or deceived, but maybe not forced.
yardwork
(61,420 posts)Later, it became obvious that the whole search was a sham.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)experience, or something like that. If he received a rumor, he could have still asked about the rumor.
But it sounds like hes naming several teams, so its not just one job opening that he will be covering in his suit. It is obvious in the NFL that the coaching jobs lack diversity.
yardwork
(61,420 posts)You can't just ask about a rumor you heard.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)but it can be done. The rumor was from Bill Belichick, so it wasnt just some rando.
yardwork
(61,420 posts)The interview process for a multi-million dollar high profile job like this would probably not be conducive to bringing up, in the middle of dinner say. that he'd received a text from another team's coach saying that they'd already chosen another candidate. He really was stuck. His options were poor in this situation. Which is probably why he eventually decided to sue. Enough is enough.
Nixie
(16,920 posts)it up? I thought one gripe was that they wasted his time, so why even travel there if it was upsetting. Call them and ask whats happening.
This posting assumes a lot about personal styles that are frankly irrelevant. I would have picked up the phone. You wouldnt. Okay.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Johonny
(20,685 posts)It's class action. It's not Flores versus the NFL.
gibraltar72
(7,486 posts)Elway and crew show up late for interview and are drunk. Elway has always been an asshole.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)More information???
maxrandb
(15,193 posts)28 of them would be wearing MAGA Hats.
Just like EVERY FUCKING RETRUMPLICAN SUPPORTER, us brogues better "just be thankful we have a job"
Response to Samrob (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.
radius777
(3,624 posts)That is fundamentally the problem. They often bully/blackmail local gov'ts to subsidize them. They don't treat players and coaches properly. There is often structural racism and sexism. It's a good ole boys club of greedy ass owners who play by their own rules.
Look at what's going on with MLB. The greedy owners want all of the money for themselves - it's never enough. The last CBA totally screwed the players, who would be correct to strike, as much as I would miss baseball.
Johonny
(20,685 posts)Worst kept not even a secret (I mean the Rooney rule is there for a reason) in sports. It's been suggested Belichick wouldn't exactly be upset to see the league take a little heat. The Patriots aren't afraid of their minority hiring record. Oddly Miami is thought to be one of the better franchises for diversity as well. However, Flores was the coach willing to be named for the class action suit. This is a legal action 20+ years in the making.
RobinA
(9,878 posts)going on in hiring since forever. I have no special knowledge of the NFL, but I've been hired, not hired, and involved in hiring decisions and interviewing. The process rarely bears scrutiny no matter who is involved. I'm quite sure I've been interviewed when they knew they weren't going to hire me. I know I've seen people interviewed when the company already knew who they were hiring. I've gone on interviews for jobs I knew I wouldn't take. I'm quite sure there is racism in hiring, but the particular activity evidenced by the e-mail is not limited to those situations. Now if someone can put a stop to the deceit in hiring using whatever means necessary, more power to him or her.
Johnny2X2X
(18,745 posts)A lot of these owners probably think of themselves as swell guys. But their NFL teams are the ultimate expression of their egos, NFL ownership is the ultimate billionaire show off. It's the ultimate machismo toy to show off to their fellow billionaires.
So when it comes to coaching their ultimate macho toy, their racism comes out, this is the most important position in the organization, they only want whites in that spot, representing their ego.
And it's reinforced in the media. Watch the hires and contracts for coaches in the pros and college the last few years. They'll give a young white coach with virtually no experience a shot at a big job, but black men with decades of great experience get passed over repeatedly.
Michigan State hired a black head coach 2 years ago, almost to the day, he's a perfect example. Mel Tucker was in coaching for over 22 years before he finally got hired as a head coach. And those 22 years were filled with elite experience on national title winning teams. So he was winning national titles as an assistant, coaching NFL defenses for years, and basically getting experience working for the best head coaches in the country, yet no head coaching opportunities arose for him as he went from MSU to LSU to Ohio State to the NFL to Alabama and to Georgia working for legends like Jim Tressel and Nick Saban.
Mel Tucker finally got a head coaching job at Colorado, and after a year a bigger program came calling in Michigan State and offered him elite money. Instead of celebrating a black coach getting a huge salary with a chance to lead a big time program, the media went after him and the contract, saying MSU overpaid and coaches shouldn't leave their teams after 1 year. And then it got even worse this past year when Tucker was leading Michigan State to a great season so LSU tried to poach him, but MSU ponied up and gave him the largest contract for any black coach in the country, $9.5 Million a year for 10 years. Instead of celebrating that, the media hammered he and MSU for overpaying, that it was a ridiculous deal for a coach with only 3 years of head coaching experience. The racism was palpable. Michigan State was the first school to desegregate their football program, and now they made a black head coach one of the highest paid in the country, instead of celebrating this event, the media was critical. All the while a white coach like Lincoln Riley who had been coaching less years, but was given a big chance much earlier signs a similar deal to go to USC and it was celebrated. No talk that Lincoln Riley only had a few years of HC experience, no hurt feelings that he was leaving for a big money deal. The difference couldn't be more obvious.
The NFL is trending towards younger and more innovative coaches, so they're taking chances on young guys with very little experience. They're giving shots to guys with less than 10 years in coaching, who all are white. All the while there are dozens of Mel Tuckers out there grinding for 20+ years and getting passed over and passed over and passed over.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)If you are going ot post, please post links and facts to what the fuck you are talking about.