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Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:09 AM

About that Russian convoy

somebody with military experience please explain why those tanks in line cannot be struck with rockets from the sides. It looked like the tanks were rolling along some wooded roads that could have been used to cover fighters using shoulder launched rockets to destroy some of the tanks from both sides of the road. The Russian can protect against airborne missiles but can they protect against close up missiles launched simultaneously?

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Arrow 51 replies Author Time Post
Reply About that Russian convoy (Original post)
Samrob Mar 2022 OP
gab13by13 Mar 2022 #1
OneBlueDotS-Carolina Mar 2022 #20
gab13by13 Mar 2022 #25
OneBlueDotS-Carolina Mar 2022 #28
MineralMan Mar 2022 #2
lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #3
MineralMan Mar 2022 #10
lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #13
MineralMan Mar 2022 #15
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 2022 #4
MineralMan Mar 2022 #11
Samrob Mar 2022 #12
OnDoutside Mar 2022 #24
FM123 Mar 2022 #32
Samrob Mar 2022 #46
PJMcK Mar 2022 #16
we can do it Mar 2022 #23
notinkansas Mar 2022 #35
FM123 Mar 2022 #50
2naSalit Mar 2022 #43
Hoyt Mar 2022 #5
albacore Mar 2022 #21
Hoyt Mar 2022 #37
Tracer Mar 2022 #6
Tomconroy Mar 2022 #7
lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #14
Tomconroy Mar 2022 #31
lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #33
dhol82 Mar 2022 #8
gab13by13 Mar 2022 #29
MineralMan Mar 2022 #30
jonstl08 Mar 2022 #9
mcar Mar 2022 #17
empedocles Mar 2022 #22
notinkansas Mar 2022 #36
mcar Mar 2022 #48
sarisataka Mar 2022 #18
rgbecker Mar 2022 #19
Happy Hoosier Mar 2022 #27
PortTack Mar 2022 #38
Happy Hoosier Mar 2022 #26
PortTack Mar 2022 #40
Sancho Mar 2022 #34
PortTack Mar 2022 #39
Johnny2X2X Mar 2022 #41
Cognitive_Resonance Mar 2022 #42
Samrob Mar 2022 #44
greenjar_01 Mar 2022 #45
Cognitive_Resonance Mar 2022 #47
WarGamer Mar 2022 #49
AntiFascist Mar 2022 #51

Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:11 AM

1. Just need to send Javelins and night vision goggles.

and train them how to use them.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:37 AM

20. People are sending the newest night vison equipment

plus shipments of British NLAW and American FGM-148 "Javelin" anti-tank missile launchers are arriving hourly, flown to airports close to the Ukraine border, then shipped by truck to where the folks fighting can use them. Only negative comments I've seen is commanders saying use them for good targets, stop hitting jeeps & old Russian trucks with them, Use RPGs....

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Response to OneBlueDotS-Carolina (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:43 AM

25. I don't think it's as easy as you portray,

military people I heard are saying it is extremely difficult to get arms to Ukraine.

Russia is talking about sealing off the border with Poland.

The ambassador from Ukraine is imploring countries to send arms.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:45 AM

28. Russia is in the east...

Western Ukraine is Russian free at the moment. Ukraine still owns the sky is the west, despite Putin's BS claims.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:11 AM

2. Well, Despite Being an Expert Armchair General,

I suspect that the Ukrainian military probably has been working on a plan for that convoy since it became known.

So, I'll leave their tactical and strategic planning to them, I think.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:14 AM

3. I would also imagine they're getting advice, intel and materiel from their friends in the EU and US.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:27 AM

10. Ya think?

Of course they are, but the Ukrainian military understands its capabilities better than anyone else possibly can. Attacking a major convoy with maximum effect and minimum casualties isn't a simple matter of "hitting it with some Javelins."

I believe, and hope, that they can mount a punishing attack that will stop the convoy in its tracks. We will find out.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:28 AM

13. I'm confident they will. The convoy is Putin's next big mistake.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:31 AM

15. Yes, it could be, for sure.

We don't know how they're protecting the convoy, though. We don't know very much at all, in fact. I'm sure the Ukrainians are assessing the situation and working on a plan of attack.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:15 AM

4. Don't you know...

DU Experts are better than actual Ukrainian military.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:28 AM

11. But of course...

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:28 AM

12. Never said I was an expert. I was asking for comments from experts as to why certain measures

were not being taken and why. What seems actionable to some of us who aren't military may not be a wise move. I just wanted some comment on the pros and cons. That is all.

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Response to Samrob (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:41 AM

24. Well said.

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Response to Samrob (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:52 AM

32. Welcome to DU Samrob!

I know I am about a month late in welcoming you, but sending my hello's anyway....

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Response to FM123 (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:15 PM

46. Thank you. nt

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:32 AM

16. Isn't that the fun of the internet?

I get to spout off on all kinds of things about which I know nothing!

(wink)

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:39 AM

23. As are DU legal experts.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 11:10 AM

35. Maybe it's really not necessary to harsh so much on people

just wanting to talk about the situation. It is weighing heavily on peoples' minds world wide. Nobody is pretending to know more about the situation than the Ukranians. I think people just need to discuss this because the situation is so dire - and what else can they do?

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Response to notinkansas (Reply #35)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 04:18 PM

50. Yes, I think that this is weighing very heavy on the minds (and hearts) of those

who are just horrified by what is happening, and need to talk it out....

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 01:39 PM

43. Yup.

I feel confident that no factor will go unnoticed.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:16 AM

5. Because after a few rockets Russians will start strafing and killing everything moving along road.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:37 AM

21. Not disagreeing, but the range on the Javelins is 2.5 miles. That's a lot of strafing...

... I said on DU days ago that the Russians would bomb and rocket every bush that could hide a Javelin team, but that's gonna require a lot more firepower than they've used yet.

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Response to albacore (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 11:24 AM

37. That's my concern. Don't believe they've really cut loose yet. But it's likely coming.

 

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:19 AM

6. How fast can this convoy move?

Seems I remember a recent snowstorm in VA that tied up the highway for several days.

This convoy looks like a single file that would take days to clear. It could turn out to be the biggest traffic jam that prevents forward movement.

(Another armchair general).

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:21 AM

7. If the Ukranians had the resources they would do it. The

fact that it hasn't happened is a bad sign.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:29 AM

14. They may be waiting for the perfect moment to strike for maximum effect.

Putin has made a huge error, putting so many eggs in one basket.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:52 AM

31. Just saw this:




Hope he's right.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:54 AM

33. Maybe Ukraine's public statements are a bit of a diversion...

...then... BOOM!

Surprise!

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:23 AM

8. Heard on the teevee that they are entering the mud season

Makes driving a tank a bit problematic.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:46 AM

29. It looks to me like the convoy is on pavement.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:51 AM

30. Not on highways it's not problematic.

They're not convoying on dirt roads or bare ground. They're on highways.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:27 AM

9. Probaly slow them down

Be a real nuisance to them. Take out the first couple of vehicles to block the road to slow them down. Then do it again a couple of miles down the road. Easy for me to say and think the Ukrainians already know this.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:32 AM

17. Do you really think the Ukrainian military isn't on this?

The constant "why can't" and "why won't" laments from this site and social media is getting tiresome - Ukraine, the Biden Admin, NATO, and the EU have been exemplary here. Let's trust them a bit, shall we?

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Response to mcar (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:38 AM

22. Agree

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Response to mcar (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 11:12 AM

36. See post 35.

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Response to notinkansas (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:47 PM

48. I'll post as I see fit, thanks all the same

In this case, the OP is being critical of something "not happening," when they have no idea what is actually going on.

I've seen it all over social media in the last week. I'm sure you have too. "Why isn't" Biden/EU/NATO doing this? Only to find out that they either have or did shortly thereafter.

Remember SWIFT - the media's chew toy of last week? "Why isn't Biden/EU blocking Russia from SWIFT?" Of course, it happened a few days later. All the while, there was no mention of the very strong financial sanctions that had been issued.

Things are moving very quickly WRT this war - but some things take a bit of time and strategizing. As I said, I trust the leaders - they've done a great job so far.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:33 AM

18. Tanks are poor targets for such an operation

They are tough are easily repaired from most rockets. Save the Javelins for longer range use like they are intended.

Better targets would be unarmored supply vehicles and Anti-Air vehicles. Russia has been having supply issues so make them worse: removing anti-air assets will make the units more vulnerable when they attack.

Getting to the convoy is a problem. The same factors that restrict the convoy to the road hinder a force trying to ambush it. Also the Russians likely have patrols on nearby roads looking for ambush parties.

Taking out bridges and ambushes at natural chokepoints are the best ways to slow progress and inflict the most damage. The Russians know this as well making it a risk game of cat and mouse

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:34 AM

19. (40 Miles x 5280') / 30' per vehicle 7040 vehicles?

Lotta Javelins.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:45 AM

27. The vast majority of those vehicles are soft.

No need for javelins. The vast, VAST majority will be supply and fuel trucks. RPGs or other light rocksts and even machine guns are all that are really needed.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 12:07 PM

38. The 40 mile long convoy story has been debunked. Yes, it's a convoy, but not a solid 40 mi long

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 10:43 AM

26. They can, but you have to get close enough to do it.

And it's riskier in the open.

I suspect Ukrainian strategy is to attack them in the city. That can be attacked from all sides, including the top, and once they are bottled, up the meat in middle is in for a very bad day. They'll have nowhere to go. Classic urban warafre and so far, the Russians have not proven to be very good at it.

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 12:11 PM

40. Yes, with an endless supply of Molotov cocktails!!

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 11:04 AM

34. It seems that letting them sit there and run out of gas is good strategy...

...save the missiles and shooting for the front of the line?

As long as they are just jammed up, having a picnic, and going slow the entire column is a waste. If they can't actually move in or surround the city without a fight, it's a slow moving paperweight.

I'm not any kind of expert, but every battle plan I've ever seen had lines facing or circling the objective. Until that column tries to spread out, it's just a TV show.

Russia just announced they were going to bomb government buildings - I guess as symbolic in a show of force - like people didn't know they were there.



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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 12:10 PM

39. Ukraine Air Force is taking control of 70 fighter jets sent by the E.U. union to Poland's boarder

They are older Russia’s migs, one would imagine the Russian convoy is a high priority

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 12:16 PM

41. There has been some media blackout of the convoy

I suspect Ukraine is dealing with it, but they don't want videos out there revealing how.

But the bigger point is arm chair generals are whistling in the wind. There are bright military minds thinking of creative ways to slow or neutralize that convoy, everything that can be done is being done.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 12:26 PM

42. Let's trust the Ukrainians to handle this. They pick the time, place, and circumstances of the

engagement to their best advantage. The deeper the Russians push, the more forces they commit, the thinner they spread those forces the more vulnerable they become. Those troops must be fed, their vehicles re-fueled, and the weapons re-armed. Massive, exposed supply lines. Without resupply armies die.

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Response to Cognitive_Resonance (Reply #42)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:07 PM

44. I trust those brave people to handle it. I'm just eager to have some of those tanks blown up

especially after today's two bombings by the Russians.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:09 PM

45. If you look at the satellite, the flanks are covered by armor

 

They clear the front, bring armor around to protect the flanks, then roll. Look at any distance satellite view and you'll see armor on the other side of the tree lines. Pointing outward.

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:43 PM

47. This morning (EST) Zelensky's office claimed their forces have been shelling elements of the convoy.

They're being very selective and smart toward applying their capabilities. This isn't a Kuwait situation with a defeated spooked army running for their lives in the open, and a conveyer belt of allied attack planes above conducting a turkey shoot. Different circumstances here. My hunch is the newly supercharged Ukrainian Air Force will be in action soon. They'll have a fleet of Mig-29's and Su-25's (attack plane) in sufficient quantities to conduct offensive strikes. The Ukrainian's have effective air defense capability, and it can be focused to support strike activity.

Watching for Poland and other border countries to possibly extend some kind of protective shield over a portion of western Ukrainian, backed-up with air defense assets pushed up to those borders. Something.

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Response to Cognitive_Resonance (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 02:48 PM

49. The Russians have long range S400's in Belarus and smaller AAA with the convoy.

Not as easy as it sounds

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Response to Samrob (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2022, 04:24 PM

51. Here's my armchair advice...


massive strike on the convoy all at once immediately after the next time Russia bombs buildings with civilians. Also videoing and distributing messages from captured Russian soldiers would be good psy ops for the Russian public (at least the younger Russians who might have access to the material).

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