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radicalleft

(478 posts)
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:47 AM Apr 2022

How do we stop gun violence/mass shootings

With over 393 million LEGAL guns out there (no idea as to how many illegal guns), how do you stop mass shootings?

Serious question...


15 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Confiscate
0 (0%)
Expanded background checks
2 (13%)
Painfully tax ammunition
5 (33%)
Eliminate Constitutional/Concealed carry
2 (13%)
Buy-back programs
0 (0%)
Other-explain
6 (40%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
88 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How do we stop gun violence/mass shootings (Original Post) radicalleft Apr 2022 OP
Area level pre crime software has worked for robberies etc, should work for shootings uponit7771 Apr 2022 #1
What is that? radicalleft Apr 2022 #2
It's not pyscic driven software like Minority Report but data drive and it works (link) uponit7771 Apr 2022 #4
Interesting... radicalleft Apr 2022 #22
A combination of all of them. gibraltar72 Apr 2022 #3
Definitely need a culture change Amishman Apr 2022 #75
the founding fathers gave us the mechanism- we only have to use it Blues Heron Apr 2022 #5
It's been almost a century since an amendment was repealed. The political will to replace or modify Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #9
Yes I know - but nevertheless, the mechanism is there Blues Heron Apr 2022 #11
Technically possible, but the chances of getting 38 out of 50 state legislatures to approve Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #15
still though, people should realize the founding fathers did not want daily massacres Blues Heron Apr 2022 #17
We won't. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #6
Sayz man with more than his share of gunz. Those who support/promote unrestricted gunz are problem. Hoyt Apr 2022 #29
I'm curious, how many "gunz" constitute more than my share? Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #31
Not a shock! Lol USALiberal Apr 2022 #76
taxing ammo is not enough. Beastly Boy Apr 2022 #7
Guns didn't just jump up and shoot, 15 year mandatory min for any gun involvement in crime for perps Shanti Shanti Shanti Apr 2022 #8
Wouldn't it be easier to just nuke them from space? LiberatedUSA Apr 2022 #42
lasers Celerity Apr 2022 #47
This would be...interesting to see in practice. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #52
I think that ship has sailed. Srkdqltr Apr 2022 #10
If you look at Japan, Australia and New Zealand, you can see a model for us to follow one day Blues Heron Apr 2022 #14
People Control, Not Gun Control Sancho Apr 2022 #12
Go to another country that enforces some sort of Meowmee Apr 2022 #13
Thoughts and prayers bif Apr 2022 #16
It is difficult and expensive to legally own automatic weapons: Doc_Technical Apr 2022 #18
That would put at least half of the firearms in private hands under the NFA. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #20
You can't stop it PJMcK Apr 2022 #19
Reminded of Jed Bartlet in debate (West Wing) MissMillie Apr 2022 #21
Pandora's box has been opened. Ain't no putting the genie back in. Ferrets are Cool Apr 2022 #23
Only a sea-change in society can save souls sanatanadharma Apr 2022 #24
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2022 #67
Prevention, but not around the guns themselves; that horse is out of the barn. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2022 #25
I think we have to go back to hard lawnforcement Hangingon Apr 2022 #26
Stop and Frisk was a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. NutmegYankee Apr 2022 #30
"Constitution, smonstitution...who cares?" seems to be the attitude of many. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #33
I think it can be handled without violation of the 4th amendment Hangingon Apr 2022 #40
Gun ownership in NYC has been heavily restricted for decades brooklynite Apr 2022 #45
Yes. The famous Sullivan Act. Basically the same for Chicago. Hangingon Apr 2022 #49
Given that I'm a "gun nut", I'm curious how you propose "going after" me, given that the measures Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #54
I am certainly not going after you Hangingon Apr 2022 #62
I misunderstood, my bad. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #65
I no problem Hangingon Apr 2022 #68
I no problem Hangingon Apr 2022 #69
Are you saying you desire the end of the 4th Amendment? NutmegYankee Apr 2022 #51
I was trying to point out that denying rights is a dangerous idea Hangingon Apr 2022 #58
Make ammo hard to get. Without bullets guns are just paper weights. Hotler Apr 2022 #27
Ammunition is certainly part of the "arms" of "keep and bear arms". Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #28
The recent Illinois supreme court ruling went there Amishman Apr 2022 #81
Require participation in a well-regulated militia maxsolomon Apr 2022 #32
Will this also apply to the elderly and those with physical disabilities? Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #34
Yes. maxsolomon Apr 2022 #36
"No guns for you. You're in a wheelchair, after all." Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #44
Was I not clear? maxsolomon Apr 2022 #46
Militia training presumably includes things such as basic infantry tactics while wearing full field Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #48
Crimony. You're just relentless. maxsolomon Apr 2022 #57
Well, it's not as if you put forth a serious proposal, after all. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #60
And it seems you are happy about it. Nt USALiberal Apr 2022 #80
Yeah, so what? MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2022 #82
And? Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #85
Now that range time is mandatory, do I get free ammo and targets? Hangingon Apr 2022 #70
If that's how it works, I'm taking my .577 Snider-Enfield. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #71
Let's ask for mileage Hangingon Apr 2022 #72
In for a penny... Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #73
FFS, really? USALiberal Apr 2022 #79
Really. When someone proposes something that's absurd on the face of it amuses me Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #35
Its one of the many social wedges issues Republicans use to try and divide us. Mr. Sparkle Apr 2022 #37
Serious gun control will have to wait for a reset of the country. Chainfire Apr 2022 #38
Let's cool down the appeal of guns. Hangingon Apr 2022 #50
How exactly do you do that in the face of the 1st Amendment? Chainfire Apr 2022 #55
Hell, just check out that huge ongoing thread wherein many are calling for the 1st Amendment Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #61
Make it socially impossible Hangingon Apr 2022 #63
Here's the trick, though. People (on the whole) really enjoy gun violence in films, games, etc. Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #66
Ridicule only works in some locations Amishman Apr 2022 #83
I know.....So why not just cut to the chase, and repeal the 2nd? Chainfire Apr 2022 #64
How do propose doing that? Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #59
We can't 48656c6c6f20 Apr 2022 #39
Serous answer... sarisataka Apr 2022 #41
It is a scary world we live in radicalleft Apr 2022 #56
When I was a kid, growing up in rural America Chainfire Apr 2022 #43
This is a great read! radicalleft Apr 2022 #53
Sandy Hook happened. and nothing changed. /nt IcyPeas Apr 2022 #74
It isn't possible in this country. Prepare for the fact that it's only going to get worse. Crunchy Frog Apr 2022 #77
Guns have very little to do with causing gun violence Zeitghost Apr 2022 #78
My great grandmothers were Wild West. hunter Apr 2022 #84
I'm 60 years old with Parkinson's. I'm not outrunning anyone ... Dial H For Hero Apr 2022 #86
Life sentance manicdem Apr 2022 #88

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
1. Area level pre crime software has worked for robberies etc, should work for shootings
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:50 AM
Apr 2022

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
4. It's not pyscic driven software like Minority Report but data drive and it works (link)
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:56 AM
Apr 2022
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/08/14/the-future-of-policing-using-pre-crime-technology/?sh=c533f1a64a11

I think the anomaly in the software so far has been covid but as things get back to normal so should area level pre crime

Law enforcement has become more effective with pre-crime technology and predictive policing. In Chicago, one of the largest and most crime-intensive cities, officials attribute decreased crime rates to predictive policing efforts. Consider also the capability to snuff out crimes before they occur by culling and monitoring data from social media. When used judiciously, predictive policing can also improve targeting by law enforcement agencies and help mitigate inevitable law enforcement biases.

Amishman

(5,538 posts)
75. Definitely need a culture change
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 06:34 PM
Apr 2022

Several of those options probably won't pass constitutional review. Confiscation and extreme ammo taxes fall in that category. Full elimination of concealed carry probably wouldn't pass either. Same for mandatory buybacks.

I'm also wondering if supply side restrictions will be effective at all long term. 3D printing and home manufacturing is only going to advance.

Gun violence falls into several categories.

Domestic violence probably is the hardest to mitigate.

Gang and drug trade ultimately has deep roots in poverty and lack of opportunity. That can be reduced by addressing those reasons. Gun violence as apart of theft also falls in this bucket.

So many modern problems come from economic inequality and the robbing of the American public by the top 1%

Blues Heron

(5,898 posts)
5. the founding fathers gave us the mechanism- we only have to use it
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:59 AM
Apr 2022

They gave us the whiteout we need to get rid of outdated amendments like 2a. We just need to use it. Every massacre pushes us a little closer as people stare in abject horror at the evil situation the gun kooks have put us in.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
9. It's been almost a century since an amendment was repealed. The political will to replace or modify
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:14 AM
Apr 2022

the 2A isn’t there.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
15. Technically possible, but the chances of getting 38 out of 50 state legislatures to approve
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:23 AM
Apr 2022

of modifying (let alone repealing) the 2A are nil for the foreseeable future.

Blues Heron

(5,898 posts)
17. still though, people should realize the founding fathers did not want daily massacres
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:27 AM
Apr 2022

I think if they had known what it would lead to they would not have written the 2a the way they did. You are right though - we are in this nightmare for the foreseeable future.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
6. We won't.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:10 AM
Apr 2022

Modern firearms are extraordinarily durable with only minimal care. They will literally last for centuries. Ammunition isn’t quite as long lasting, but I’ve personally shot ammo over a century old, and it typically goes “bang” almost every time.

Even if measures such as expanded background checks, assault weapons bans, etc., were passed at the national level another hundred million firearms are still being manufactured/imported every decade.

Guns are here to stay.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
29. Sayz man with more than his share of gunz. Those who support/promote unrestricted gunz are problem.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:48 AM
Apr 2022

Beastly Boy

(9,056 posts)
7. taxing ammo is not enough.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:13 AM
Apr 2022

Make every round traceable to the purchaser, and make every purchaser accountable for every round fired.

Also: mandatory gun safety and handling training for every firearm before purchase.

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
8. Guns didn't just jump up and shoot, 15 year mandatory min for any gun involvement in crime for perps
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:13 AM
Apr 2022

Anyone connected to enable deadly shooting should get life sentence. Lock them up and throw away key.

And confiscation of all family members houses, cars, possessions, destroy the criminals families lives forever too.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
52. This would be...interesting to see in practice.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:34 PM
Apr 2022
And confiscation of all family members houses, cars, possessions, destroy the criminals families lives forever too.


"You are charged with being the sister of someone who shot someone to death. How do you plead?"

"Um....guilty?"

"I sentence you to having everything you own confiscated. Don't bother going home, you don't have one now. I will allow you to keep the clothes on your back. There's no need to be cruel. Bailiff, take her purse."

"But...you just took all of my money and credit cards! Where am I going to sleep? How can I get food?"

"You should have thought about that before you became his sister. Next case!"

Srkdqltr

(6,125 posts)
10. I think that ship has sailed.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:15 AM
Apr 2022

The message has to get to people to stop shooting others. If there is one gun left someone will shoot someone else with it. There is no way on earth to confiscate guns. People have to stop shooting people. There is no other answer. It doesn't seem to matter who or how many are killed with guns the shooting continues.
You can make all the laws. Use any example but it is up to people.

Blues Heron

(5,898 posts)
14. If you look at Japan, Australia and New Zealand, you can see a model for us to follow one day
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:21 AM
Apr 2022

Those are all rational modern developed countries that just don't have daily massacres the way we do. It doesn't have to be like this.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
12. People Control, Not Gun Control
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:17 AM
Apr 2022

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
13. Go to another country that enforces some sort of
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:19 AM
Apr 2022

Gun control. My prediction, they will never stop here.

Make gun manufacturers and sellers libel for deaths, maybe, but that will never happen.

Doc_Technical

(3,502 posts)
18. It is difficult and expensive to legally own automatic weapons:
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:28 AM
Apr 2022

we should apply the same laws for semi-automatic weapons.
The penalties for violating these laws should be severe
(mandatory prison sentences)

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
20. That would put at least half of the firearms in private hands under the NFA.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:35 AM
Apr 2022

The courts would throw such a measure out the moment it was enacted. The “common use” rationale in the Heller case alone would invalidate it.

PJMcK

(21,916 posts)
19. You can't stop it
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:30 AM
Apr 2022

The genie is out of the bottle. There's no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Not with nearly 400 million guns. It can't and won't happen.

Sadly, I believe we're stuck with the guns and he resulting violence.

MissMillie

(38,452 posts)
21. Reminded of Jed Bartlet in debate (West Wing)
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:41 AM
Apr 2022

complexity is not a vice.

There is absolutely no 10-word answer to this question.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,057 posts)
23. Pandora's box has been opened. Ain't no putting the genie back in.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 09:58 AM
Apr 2022

'Merica chose this path. Now we are suffering the consequences.

sanatanadharma

(3,639 posts)
24. Only a sea-change in society can save souls
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:03 AM
Apr 2022

Until the "it will never happen" surrenders shut up, nothing will change.

Until sane people among us begin to call out EVERY gun desiring*-owner as a danger to our society, nothing will change.
Until 'gun-desirers' are shunned as a despised population, nothing will change.

Until every 2nd-A defender is laughed at as a selfish, anti-social fool, nothing will change.
Until every gun used in a crime is destroyed, not resold, not returned if stolen, noting will change.

Until laws make dangerous gun use prohibitively ponderous to pursue (as in life sentences for all crimes with guns), nothing will change.
Until we try creating laws, excise taxes, insurance requirements, over and over again at all levels (like anti-abortionists have), nothing will change.

The Supreme Court of the USA will change. It has before. The nine are not Gods to be propitiated by blood sacrifices.

* "Desire" is the key word. Having guns is one thing; desiring guns is dangerous.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,145 posts)
25. Prevention, but not around the guns themselves; that horse is out of the barn.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:05 AM
Apr 2022

Instead, prevention around mental health (including education around emotional health and relationships); better health care; higher wages; more opportunities for people in employment, socialization and recreation; etc., etc. Things that would improve all of our lives in incredible ways.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
26. I think we have to go back to hard lawnforcement
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:19 AM
Apr 2022

Start with the shooters and not the guns. Go back to stop, question and frisk and other pre-active techniques.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
30. Stop and Frisk was a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:59 AM
Apr 2022

Police need to have reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and detain someone. Just randomly stopping people, usually minorities, does not meet that legal requirement.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
33. "Constitution, smonstitution...who cares?" seems to be the attitude of many.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:07 AM
Apr 2022

Just check out the current thread with over 200 posts where many are calling for the first amendment to be ignored or repealed.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
40. I think it can be handled without violation of the 4th amendment
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:26 AM
Apr 2022

The new mayor NYC is asking about gun law enforcement and offering sensible plans. They involve going after the gun carriers and shooters.

If we are truly interested in solving the problem, we have to find the will to solve it. Chicago has wailed about gun violence for decades but has done nothing but find reasons not to.

Finally, if we can so easily do away with the 2nd amendment, we can do away with the 4th. See the slippery slope.

brooklynite

(93,835 posts)
45. Gun ownership in NYC has been heavily restricted for decades
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:46 AM
Apr 2022

Legal gun sales in NYC are virtually non-existent, except for law enforcement

If you're willing to commit a crime with a gun, you're willing to commit a crime to get a gun.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
49. Yes. The famous Sullivan Act. Basically the same for Chicago.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:25 PM
Apr 2022

I am all for attacking the supply chain. In all these decades, why hasn’t it been done. The crooked gun shops are known. Why hasn’t BATF closed them. Out of state, unlicensed sale of firearms is a Federal crime. Why hasn’t it been closed by the FEDS. We have the means to drastically reduce straw purchases or punish the purchaser after they are identified, but we don’t. District attorneys often “trade off” gun charges to get out of court deals. Why?
Now we do not allow police to stop known gang members who are know for violence because they are members of the protected class. Do we really want to solve this problem? It likes we don’t.

Our Answer is to go after gun nuts. That is people who are not involved in the shootouts. But these people generally vote conservative, so it is a good answer. This leads us to talk about confiscating 4 billion guns, put prohibitive taxes on guns and ammunition and to license, educate and place waiting periods on gun purchases. Theses seem satisfying, but will not solve the problem.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
54. Given that I'm a "gun nut", I'm curious how you propose "going after" me, given that the measures
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:38 PM
Apr 2022

you speak of will not (by your own admission) solve the problem.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
62. I am certainly not going after you
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 01:00 PM
Apr 2022

I am a “gun nut”, a moderate democrat ( hence the Hangingon) and a pragmatic person.I am careful who I buy from and sell to. Walked out of guns store that gave me a shady feeling.

I was replying to the calls for puntative legislation aimed at gun owners who do not engage in shootouts - I.e. not part of the problem. I have little patients with the abolish Constitutional amendments - second amendment or other.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
58. I was trying to point out that denying rights is a dangerous idea
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:40 PM
Apr 2022

I hear things on this board that suggest curtailing or ending all sorts of constitutional rights - guns and religion come to mind. Actually abolishing peoples rights will have political push back.

Hotler

(11,353 posts)
27. Make ammo hard to get. Without bullets guns are just paper weights.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:20 AM
Apr 2022

Tax the shit out of it to start with. Use those funds to fund the cops and cut back on tax payer money. Stop online ammo sales. Maybe a 10-day waiting period.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
28. Ammunition is certainly part of the "arms" of "keep and bear arms".
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 10:46 AM
Apr 2022

You can’t tax a constitutional right out of existence.

Amishman

(5,538 posts)
81. The recent Illinois supreme court ruling went there
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 07:29 PM
Apr 2022

Though with an interesting caveat that they seemed to be ok if a modest tax with the proceeds going to crime prevention efforts.

Law was a cook county ammunition tax

A tax big enough to impede use and ownership would not pass the scrutiny and criteria of that ruling. While that was a state supreme court and not federal, it was a solidly blue court and about as friendly to our party as we are likely to find.

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
32. Require participation in a well-regulated militia
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:03 AM
Apr 2022

You want the gun, you spend 2 weekends a year doing militia training.

It is necessary for the security of a free state, after all.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
44. "No guns for you. You're in a wheelchair, after all."
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:42 AM
Apr 2022

Um…interesting proposal.

YOU have to do 4 weekends.


maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
46. Was I not clear?
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:58 AM
Apr 2022

People in wheelchairs can have guns if they do the militia training. Accommodations will be made.

I don't have a gun, nor do I care to, so I don't have to do any weekends.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
48. Militia training presumably includes things such as basic infantry tactics while wearing full field
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:22 PM
Apr 2022

gear. How exactly would that work for someone in a wheelchair, someone who weighs over 300 lbs, or someone more than 70 years old?

I don't have a gun, nor do I care to, so I don't have to do any weekends.


I have many guns (because I care to), so I don't have to do any weekends either...because the chance of your proposal coming to pass is somewhere south of slim and none.

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
57. Crimony. You're just relentless.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:40 PM
Apr 2022

I've been on DU 20 years, and after any mass shooting, there's always a gunner quibbler just like you.

There is simply no point in putting forward ANY serious gun control proposals in this armed madhouse of a nation. You know it, and I know it, and so do DU's gunners and DU's gun grabbers. Nothing will move in the direction of sanity for the remainder of our lifetimes.

The 2nd amendment is what it is: a national suicide pact. I just hope to stay out of the crossfire.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
60. Well, it's not as if you put forth a serious proposal, after all.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:45 PM
Apr 2022

As for there not being any chance of substantive gun control coming to pass, I quite agree with you.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
71. If that's how it works, I'm taking my .577 Snider-Enfield.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 01:23 PM
Apr 2022


The stuff costs around $10 a round...if you can find it.

How about lunch?


Yes, but it's 10 year old MREs.
 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
87. Really. When someone proposes something that's absurd on the face of it amuses me
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:33 PM
Apr 2022

to explore its ramifications.

Response to maxsolomon (Reply #32)

Chainfire

(17,304 posts)
38. Serious gun control will have to wait for a reset of the country.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:12 AM
Apr 2022

Guns are a convenient tool for killing the most people in the shortest time, but the root of most of the killing lies in hopelessness, poverty, and lack of education, unequal opportunity and self treating of those maladies by the use of prohibited drugs or alcohol. Republicans refuse to address these kinds of issues, because the retain power from supporting gun owners. Guns, like abortion, are issues that are good for the Republican Party. A fair, just, society, with opportunity for all would reduce gun violence faster than any other measures. With liberty and justice for all...

I do think that it would make sense to handle "assault rifles" like the way we do machine guns. A permanent ban on high capacity magazines would reduce the carnage. Even these changes would be the Reichstag fire that the far right has been waiting for and would probably cause more rather than less bloodshed. It would give the anarchists an excuse to wage war on the rest of us. It is a highly complex problem and they do not come with simple solutions. Closing the economic divide would be a damn good start.





Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
50. Let's cool down the appeal of guns.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:30 PM
Apr 2022

Take them out of video games, music, theater and music and popular literature. It doesn’t mean we can’t discuss the problem. Just don’t portray them as tHings of glamor.

Chainfire

(17,304 posts)
55. How exactly do you do that in the face of the 1st Amendment?
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:38 PM
Apr 2022

How do you curb the propaganda supported by the 19.5 billion dollar gun and ammo business? They have the economic power to out-gun us at the movies and at the polls.

The investors don't care how many people have to die to keep those dollars rolling in. Violence sells.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
61. Hell, just check out that huge ongoing thread wherein many are calling for the 1st Amendment
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:47 PM
Apr 2022

to be ignored or repealed.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)
63. Make it socially impossible
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 01:03 PM
Apr 2022

Use rating boards, public ridicule, make the books, movies and tv shows unavailable - all the tools. Society can bring to bear. We have barred the N word from use.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
66. Here's the trick, though. People (on the whole) really enjoy gun violence in films, games, etc.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 01:09 PM
Apr 2022

They vote with their wallets. How could you make (for example) the Call of Duty games unpopular, let alone unavailable? It's one of the most popular video games ever made.

Amishman

(5,538 posts)
83. Ridicule only works in some locations
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 07:45 PM
Apr 2022

I live in a very red apart of rural PA.

There's no one to do the ridiculing, and if there was, they'd love it.

With the zealots on the other side, our scorn is taken as a compliment.

Shaming only works if the recipient has the capacity to feel it

Chainfire

(17,304 posts)
64. I know.....So why not just cut to the chase, and repeal the 2nd?
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 01:04 PM
Apr 2022

Or, easier than that, simply define the phrase, "well regulated militia" in 2A to more closely align with its meaning when the amendment was written. I am a plumber, not a Constitutional scholar, but, I do not believe that a "Well regulated militia" includes
drug gangs, white Supremist, or toothless rednecks training to overthrow the legitimate government in order to Make America Great Again. I could be wrong...But I have a little more faith in the wisdom of our founders than that.

It is all academic anyway. No one has the courage to challenge a nearly 20 billion dollar gun and ammo business. It is far easier to just pray for the families of the victims. Our gun problem is like a runaway train, breaks gone, screaming down a mountain, the only thing that will stop it is the huge crash that is coming.

 

48656c6c6f20

(7,638 posts)
39. We can't
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:15 AM
Apr 2022

Because today is Monday and Pootin might use nukes.

Oops I mean because it's Monday and we haven't ever ever ever repealed anything.

Wait I mean. Well I don't know. I just know we've been told we can't. So that's that.

sarisataka

(18,197 posts)
41. Serous answer...
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:33 AM
Apr 2022

You can't.

Human behavior and the fact guns exist on the planet means there will always be a non-zero risk.

So how do we reduce shootings (mass or otherwise)?

The answer is one most people don't want to hear. It is more of a software problem than hardware.

In our real world, options 1 and 3 are unconstitutional. The Amendment is not going to be repealed in any of our lifetimes. Option 4 isn't happening either; today 22 states have Constitutional carry and on January 1 it will be at least 25. Studies have shown "buy backs" have no measurable effect so the only thing on the list that may help is the only thing that has a chance of passing- expand background checks.

The things that will help are harder to do and will take much more work. Address the socio-economic factors that drive most crime (including gun crimes). To reduce mass shootings we need to address our tolerance and glorification of violence as a solution. We just saw a man slap another on world wide live TV because of an improper joke. Is it any wonder that our society mirrors and magnifies this.

Imagine the same situation in a high-school today. What are the chances the person slapped would seek revenge, possibly using a gun?

radicalleft

(478 posts)
56. It is a scary world we live in
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:39 PM
Apr 2022

People get shot for some really stupid reasons and some for no reason at all.

Chainfire

(17,304 posts)
43. When I was a kid, growing up in rural America
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:39 AM
Apr 2022

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Most families had a shotgun and a rifle. (we had no firearms at home) Some families had an old revolver in the house. The rifle was for harvesting deer, the shotgun was for small game and the revolver spent most of its time in a dresser drawer. You had to convince a sheriff or judge that you had a good reason to carry a pistol on your person, so few people did. The guns were primarily for recreational hunting. Ammo supplies would have typically an open box of shells or cartridges, and a box of "deer" rounds would last usually more than one season.

Today, it is much different. Most people claim to have guns for "protection." I suspect that a typical neighbor will have the firearms mentioned above plus at least one semi-auto pistol and one or more semi-auto, removable, high-capacity magazine rifles; typically a lot more than just one... Instead of an open box of ammo, they will feel "unarmed" without ten thousand rounds stashed in an old ammo can, and maybe more buried out back, "just in case." Most adults will have a concealed weapons permit and will carry their guns whenever they go out in public; again to protect themselves from bad guys with guns... The additional weapons in the modern arsenal (and they are weapons as opposed to tools) are in preparation for the SHTF scenarios that they are sure are coming. After all they will have to protect their families from all of those blacks, browns and liberals who are coming for their guns and their freedom; and if not to directly "protect" their families, there will probably come a day when they need to return the people of color liberals, athiests, Jews and other Untermensch in their proper places in society.

Hateful propaganda, beginning with radio shows, and continuing on TV has fostered the change in people's attitudes. Hate radio and the NRA has done more for the gun and ammo business than all of the direct advertising that they could ever buy. Guns haven't changed as much as people.

radicalleft

(478 posts)
53. This is a great read!
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:34 PM
Apr 2022

I think you are absolutely right about the SHTF thoughts. I find myself on the other end of that spectrum, but fearing a RW/authoritarian scenario. They have armed up the "crazies" so what is the "liberal" who believes in protecting themselves against this supposed to do?

Zeitghost

(3,796 posts)
78. Guns have very little to do with causing gun violence
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 06:45 PM
Apr 2022

Why not talk about policy changes that do and actually have a chance of getting passed (eventually)?

End drug prohibition and the violence it causes.
Fix the problems causing generational poverty.
Rebuild our inner city neighborhoods and provide opportunities for their residents.

hunter

(38,263 posts)
84. My great grandmothers were Wild West.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:24 PM
Apr 2022

One way or another, fools and their guns were soon parted.

At least one of my great grandmothers was the sort of woman who could call her friend the sheriff to clean up any mess.

The trouble with guys is testosterone. Once they've got a gun in their hands they all think they're heroes. Even the bad guys think they are heroes. Maybe especially the bad guys.

You think I'm kidding.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

Most U.S. Americans don't care enough about guns to bother owning one. That's a very reasonable perspective. Who needs that shit?

The current interpretation of the second amendment is flaming bullshit.

At one time I was competent enough as a hunter not to shoot anyone or any animal I wouldn't eat, but now I'm mostly vegetarian.

And seriously, it's always better to wear shoes you can run in than carry a gun for "self defense."



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