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In It to Win It

(8,139 posts)
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 09:09 PM Jun 2022

California bill would make gunowners buy liability insurance

AP via Yahoo News

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California would be the first state to require gun owners to buy liability insurance to cover the negligent or accidental use of their firearms, if lawmakers approve a measure announced Thursday.

“Guns kill more people than cars. Yet gun owners are not required to carry liability insurance like car owners must,” Democratic state Sen. Nancy Skinner said in a statement.

She said the costs of gun violence shouldn't be borne by taxpayers, survivors, families, employers and communities: "It’s time for gun owners to shoulder their fair share.”

The state of New York is considering a similar requirement in the wake of numerous recent mass shootings and a rise in gun violence.
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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California bill would make gunowners buy liability insurance (Original Post) In It to Win It Jun 2022 OP
Yes. LakeArenal Jun 2022 #1
Would you be willing to pay a tax to vote? gladium et scutum Jun 2022 #6
Sorry, but no, choosing your reps isn't the same as owning an ak47. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #9
Driving, or marring are not guaranteed in the Consitutution gladium et scutum Jun 2022 #13
Nope, please drop it. Tumbulu Jun 2022 #15
That is your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment gladium et scutum Jun 2022 #19
Your interpretation is getting innocents killed. Own it. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #38
Not my interpretation gladium et scutum Jun 2022 #39
Democrats own guns. I have no problem with paying insurance to own one. LakeArenal Jun 2022 #14
Neither would I. gladium et scutum Jun 2022 #16
So try or do nothing. Check LakeArenal Jun 2022 #20
So of gun ownership is guaranteed 48656c6c6f20 Jun 2022 #21
Insurance could be voluntary manicdem Jun 2022 #22
i dont think insurace would cover negligence. Groundhawg Jun 2022 #2
Negligence is exactly what liability insurance covers Better Days Ahoy Jun 2022 #11
Negligence is exactly what liability insurance covers Better Days Ahoy Jun 2022 #12
Think the poster meant criminal or intended acts manicdem Jun 2022 #23
30+ years in the insurance underwriting biz Better Days Ahoy Jun 2022 #3
Exactly. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #10
+1, uponit7771 Jun 2022 #28
Just do it Deuxcents Jun 2022 #4
You think this Supreme Court will allow it to stand... LiberatedUSA Jun 2022 #5
Let the Supreme Court try to enforce their ruling, let's light this candle ck4829 Jun 2022 #18
Oh please. LiberatedUSA Jun 2022 #26
How will it be enforced? roamer65 Jun 2022 #7
Only way I could see it being enforced madville Jun 2022 #27
And guess who the biggest insurance carrier would be? MarineCombatEngineer Jun 2022 #8
+1, true but this could bring the NRA down if they are too loose with underwriting. Gun ... uponit7771 Jun 2022 #29
I really have no problem with requiring insurance, MarineCombatEngineer Jun 2022 #32
+1, uponit7771 Jun 2022 #33
Not a chance Zeitghost Jun 2022 #35
This is only going to cover a very, very small subset of injuries/deaths DetroitLegalBeagle Jun 2022 #17
This is what a lot fail to understand Amishman Jun 2022 #24
In addition most people Sgent Jun 2022 #25
Its not the coverage the payouts would be small but there are more checks in the system before ... uponit7771 Jun 2022 #30
How so? Zeitghost Jun 2022 #36
I was thinking nationwide this would be a good idea, Cali seems to have its stuff together when it uponit7771 Jun 2022 #37
The courts will strike those laws down madville Jun 2022 #31
3 thing the proponents don't want to acknowledge sarisataka Jun 2022 #34

gladium et scutum

(803 posts)
6. Would you be willing to pay a tax to vote?
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:05 PM
Jun 2022

By the current interpretation of the Constitution, ownership of a gun is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. To require a gun owner to pay for insurance to own a gun is not any different than requiring a voter to pay a tax to vote. Both rights are guaranteed in the Constitution.

lindysalsagal

(20,433 posts)
9. Sorry, but no, choosing your reps isn't the same as owning an ak47.
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:10 PM
Jun 2022

Driving, marrying and even dying requires a tax. Nothing new about that. And, it's supposed to be a "well regulated militia." Regulations are what we need.

gladium et scutum

(803 posts)
13. Driving, or marring are not guaranteed in the Consitutution
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:28 PM
Jun 2022

No problem requiring insurance to drive. or establishing rules to regarding marriage. Voting and owning guns are guaranteed by the Constitution. To attach a financial responsibility to exercise those rights is unconstitutional.

Tumbulu

(6,267 posts)
15. Nope, please drop it.
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:30 PM
Jun 2022

Well regulated means rules and regulations.

In fact, I would like to require anyone who wants to have a weapon to be in the National Guard o r some other well regulated government organization.

gladium et scutum

(803 posts)
19. That is your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:36 PM
Jun 2022

That is not the interpretation that the Supreme Court has decided on. Guess who's interpretation counts.

gladium et scutum

(803 posts)
16. Neither would I.
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:33 PM
Jun 2022

But the poor and minorities may not have the financial ability to pay for the insurance. Should they be denied a right guaranteed by the constitution because they are poor. What if there was a tax to vote. Would you support that because you no problem with paying the tax to vote.

 

48656c6c6f20

(7,638 posts)
21. So of gun ownership is guaranteed
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 12:03 AM
Jun 2022

Then let's arm the poor and minorities and give them tax credits for insurance. That fucking piece of shit amendment can be used for anything.

Better Days Ahoy

(698 posts)
11. Negligence is exactly what liability insurance covers
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:26 PM
Jun 2022

Otherwise called an unintentional tort. It's right up front in your personal or commercial liability as a covered cause of loss, minus exclusions:
What it doesn't cover are intentional torts, AKA crimes.

Better Days Ahoy

(698 posts)
12. Negligence is exactly what liability insurance covers
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:26 PM
Jun 2022

Otherwise called an unintentional tort. It's right up front in your personal or commercial liability as a covered cause of loss, minus exclusions:
What it doesn't cover are intentional torts, AKA crimes.

manicdem

(386 posts)
23. Think the poster meant criminal or intended acts
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 03:50 AM
Jun 2022

Crashing a car into a crowd of people wouldn't be covered by insurance. Burning your own house down on purpose.

The main thing we're worried about is criminals using guns in crimes, which cover the vast majority of gun violence which this wouldn't cover. I'm not sure what this actually does. Medical or current insurance policies may cover accidents and negligence to other people. Or civil suits should be slam dunk in these cases.

Better Days Ahoy

(698 posts)
3. 30+ years in the insurance underwriting biz
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 09:18 PM
Jun 2022

Tells me that THIS is how proper background checks will actually happen. Good God, we grilled applicants on the business insurance side something fierce to weed out the sketchy ones, who then had nowhere to go but the excess and surplus lines (read: high risk or just plain crap) markets. Betcha states will need to set up insurance pools like they do for nearly uninsurable coastal property risks. When states pay out enough in claims, THEN maybe they'll do something when insurers threaten to pull out entirely. Money talks, insurers walk.

 

LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
5. You think this Supreme Court will allow it to stand...
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:00 PM
Jun 2022

…they finally get it there?

Rhetorical. Celebrate now.

 

LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
26. Oh please.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 07:17 AM
Jun 2022

So now people can fight the government, when the word around here is rednecks with AR-15s can’t; but somehow blue with a few deer rifles can?

madville

(7,397 posts)
27. Only way I could see it being enforced
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:35 AM
Jun 2022

Is when someone purchased a gun from a dealer and they have to check for it or maybe if the owner went to a gun range they might require proof of it. Other than that, without a registration system, millions of existing gun owners in California would probably just ignore it.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
29. +1, true but this could bring the NRA down if they are too loose with underwriting. Gun ...
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:39 AM
Jun 2022

... insurance could simply comply with red flag laws and commit to some intention / sannity checks.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
32. I really have no problem with requiring insurance,
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:59 AM
Jun 2022

and your coupling it with red flag laws and mental health checks, as long as those checks are done by a neutral party, are an intriguing idea.

Zeitghost

(3,796 posts)
35. Not a chance
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 10:17 AM
Jun 2022

The amount of financial damage done by guns in accidental shootings is very small compared to the number of gun owners that would be required to buy policies. Anyone buying and selling any firearms in CA, even private party sales, already has to go through a background check, 10 day waiting period and pass a safety and handling test.

If the law stands and I doubt it will, they will be cheap and easy to get and it will have zero impact on reducing gun violence.

DetroitLegalBeagle

(1,904 posts)
17. This is only going to cover a very, very small subset of injuries/deaths
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:33 PM
Jun 2022

Negligent and accidental shootings cause a very small amount of the death and injuries caused by guns. Suicides and murders/mass shootings would not be covered. Intentional and criminal acts aren't covered by insurance.

Amishman

(5,540 posts)
24. This is what a lot fail to understand
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 05:17 AM
Jun 2022

Such insurance won't cover what we want it to cover, won't be the huge financial obstacle many want it to be, and will fund the NRA and other pro-gun lobby groups.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
25. In addition most people
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:07 AM
Jun 2022

probably already have it. Standard form renters and homeowners' insurance cover this as part of their liability coverage.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
30. Its not the coverage the payouts would be small but there are more checks in the system before ...
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:40 AM
Jun 2022

... someone gets a gun in their hands.

Zeitghost

(3,796 posts)
36. How so?
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 10:18 AM
Jun 2022

Every gun sale in CA is required to go through a licensed dealer with full background checks, waiting periods and safety handling tests.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
37. I was thinking nationwide this would be a good idea, Cali seems to have its stuff together when it
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 10:24 AM
Jun 2022

... comes to guns better than the rest of the nation.

madville

(7,397 posts)
31. The courts will strike those laws down
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:40 AM
Jun 2022

Can’t put a tax or monetary penalty on a constitutional right, it disenfranchises poor people just like a poll tax on voting.

The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment will probably come into play.

sarisataka

(18,197 posts)
34. 3 thing the proponents don't want to acknowledge
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 09:47 AM
Jun 2022

- such insurance will not cover intentional criminal acts. Depending on verbiage it may not cover any intentional acts e.g. self-defense

- such insurance will not be expensive. (See elements of insurable risk)

- despite it being inexpensive it will almost assuredly be struck down if applied to general ownership. If narrowed in focus it could possibly pass scrutiny

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