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Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:23 PM

Chicago would-be robber dies after woman stands her ground and shoots him

A Chicago teenager died days after he and a group attempted to rob an armed 32-year-old woman on the city's South Side.

The incident occurred July 29 in the Woodlawn area around 8:00 p.m., according to a report.

At least four males attempted to break into the woman's parked car when she confronted the would-be robbers

One of the males whipped out a weapon and pointed it at the woman, the report noted.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/chicago-would-be-robber-dies-after-woman-stands-her-ground-and-shoots-him/ar-AA10iQsh?cvid=7c606f98c31e4448b095335f06dd6657

For me, this isn't about a good citizen with a gun story, my question is:

What the fuck is a 13 year old kid doing running around committing armed robbery?
This is a perfect example of the easy availability of firearms.

95 replies, 5548 views

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Reply Chicago would-be robber dies after woman stands her ground and shoots him (Original post)
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 OP
Kaleva Aug 2022 #1
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #3
ripcord Aug 2022 #4
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #6
Kaleva Aug 2022 #9
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #11
Kaleva Aug 2022 #12
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #14
Kaleva Aug 2022 #16
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #17
Kaleva Aug 2022 #25
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #27
alphafemale Aug 2022 #51
BlackSkimmer Aug 2022 #31
Kaleva Aug 2022 #32
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #54
Mz Pip Aug 2022 #59
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #62
alphafemale Aug 2022 #47
alphafemale Aug 2022 #48
Kaleva Aug 2022 #19
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #24
Kaleva Aug 2022 #29
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #30
MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #61
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #63
MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #64
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #66
MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #67
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #68
Kaleva Aug 2022 #81
Zeitghost Aug 2022 #50
Kaleva Aug 2022 #8
ripcord Aug 2022 #70
Kaleva Aug 2022 #74
ripcord Aug 2022 #75
Kaleva Aug 2022 #79
ripcord Aug 2022 #89
alphafemale Aug 2022 #13
Kaleva Aug 2022 #15
alphafemale Aug 2022 #39
Kaleva Aug 2022 #43
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #57
Kaleva Aug 2022 #72
NutmegYankee Aug 2022 #40
Kaleva Aug 2022 #44
NutmegYankee Aug 2022 #46
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #55
Kaleva Aug 2022 #73
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #76
Kaleva Aug 2022 #80
treestar Aug 2022 #52
leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #2
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #5
Archae Aug 2022 #36
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #37
leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #42
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #58
EX500rider Aug 2022 #65
Post removed Aug 2022 #83
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #86
alphafemale Aug 2022 #87
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #88
alphafemale Aug 2022 #41
leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #69
alphafemale Aug 2022 #71
Ace Rothstein Aug 2022 #7
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #10
Bayard Aug 2022 #18
Kaleva Aug 2022 #21
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #22
Amishman Aug 2022 #26
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #28
ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #60
Iggo Aug 2022 #20
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #23
SYFROYH Aug 2022 #33
Kaleva Aug 2022 #34
SYFROYH Aug 2022 #38
Kaleva Aug 2022 #45
radicalleft Aug 2022 #82
Kaleva Aug 2022 #84
radicalleft Aug 2022 #85
Kaleva Aug 2022 #91
radicalleft Aug 2022 #93
Kaleva Aug 2022 #95
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #35
ripcord Aug 2022 #49
48656c6c6f20 Aug 2022 #53
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #56
intelpug Aug 2022 #77
DFW Aug 2022 #78
tavernier Aug 2022 #90
MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #92
EndlessWire Aug 2022 #94

Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:49 PM

1. Apperently, the car and contents of same was worth the life of a 13 y/o.

If one follows the links, the woman confronted the group that was attempting to break into her parked car.


"CHICAGO -- A 13-year-old boy died days after he was shot during an attempted robbery in Woodlawn on the South Side.

On July 29, a group of four to five males were attempting to break into a parked car about 8 p.m. in the 1100-block of East 62nd Street, Chicago police said.

When the owner of the car - a 32-year-old woman - confronted the group, one of the suspects pointed a gun at her, police said. The woman pulled out her own gun and fired a shot."

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-woodlawn-attempted-robbery-east-62nd-street/12097495/

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:56 PM

3. No doubt she was defending herself from armed robbers,

but that kid shouldn't have had a gun in the first place and shouldn't have been out on the streets at 8:00 p.m..

I'm not anti 2A, far from it, but there has to be a way to prevent this from happening without violating the rights of those who are legally allowed to own firearms.

If this kid hadn't been able to get his hands on a firearm, who knows how his life would've turned out, now, it'll never be known because of the bad choice he made and the easy availability of firearms on the streets.

Ok, that's my rant for the day.
Have a great Wed.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:57 PM

4. How dare she want them to stop breaking into her car

And of course when one of the criminals pulled a gun on her she should have let him shoot her. The criminals aren't the victims here. I will never understand people who leap the the defense of criminals and blame the victim for not standing aside. Once they pulled a gun on the victim the criminals age becomes irrelevant.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:00 PM

6. Myself, I'm not faulting the woman for doing what she had to do,

my contention is that the 13 yo should never have had the gun in the first place and now a 32 yo woman will have to live with the knowledge that she killed a person, that can really weigh on the mind.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:08 PM

9. She didn't have to confront. She could have retreated.

Now I admit I don't know the whole story and she might not have had a path to retreat.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:10 PM

11. I agree,

but my whole point here is that this kid should never have been able to get his hands on a firearm.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:12 PM

12. The article isn't clear as to which thug had the gun

One of the 5 had the gun but it doesn't specify which.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:19 PM

14. For me, it doesn't matter who had the gun,

they should have never had the gun in the first place.

It's a tragedy that this kid died because he was with a group of people whose intent was armed robbery and this woman took the life of a 13 yo, even though it will more than likely be ruled a justified homicide, it will still be with her for the rest of her days.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:25 PM

16. It wouldn't be with her for the rest of her life if she had retreated

That's assuming she could have.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:28 PM

17. I already agreed with you, but that's a moot point now,

she did and now she will have to live with that, again, my whole point here is that those kids should never have been able to get their hands on a firearm and be doing armed robbery.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:36 PM

25. We don't know the ages of all of them.

But no one who has committed or intends to commit a crime while armed should be allowed to have a gun. I don't know how one would accomplish that unless there was a total ban. Many mass shooters were legally allowed to buy their weapons.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:40 PM

27. ....

Kaleva

25. We don't know the ages of all of them.
View profile
But no one who has committed or intends to commit a crime while should be allowed to have a gun. I don't know how one would accomplish that unless there was a total ban. Many mass shooters were legally allowed to buy their weapons.


You're right, short of an all out ban, which will NEVER happen, at least not in my lifetime and far beyond that, but there are many things on the gun control side that can be done without infringing on the rights of citizens who are lawfully allowed to own firearms.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:19 PM

51. But thanks I really want to know who the pacifists are

 

So I know who not to have around because they would just watch a child be raped and murdered.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:57 PM

31. At least she has a life.

When someone points a gun at you, assume they mean to use it.

Not sure how you think a person can "retreat" from a speeding bullet.

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Response to BlackSkimmer (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:04 PM

32. She went to confront at least 4 people attempting to break in to her parked car

She wasn't in the car.

So, she put herself into that situation.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:04 PM

54. Seriosuly?

You expect someone to sit back and watch a gang of degenerates destroy and steal her hard-earned property? Maybe her only way to get to work and shuttle her family around? Is it also her fault for parking her car on the street knowing it might get stolen? I mean, had she not parked it there, none of this would have happened, right?
I see a strong-willed woman willing to defend herself and her property, and she did exactly what she had to do.
The misguided 13 year-old got exactly what he asked for, regardless of how unaware he was of the realities of life at that age. there are other people to blame for his behavior. And in a just world, his accomplices would be charged with the murder since they were in the act of committing a felony when their buddy was shot.
Victim blaming is not something I can't get behind, and this woman is most certainly the only real victim in this story.

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Response to ForgedCrank (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:32 PM

59. The group saw her

One of them pointed a gun at her. She had a split second to decide what to do. Who knows what these thugs would have done to her if she hadn’t defended herself.

If I’d been in her shoes I wouldn’t have taken the time second guess what would happen next.

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Response to Mz Pip (Reply #59)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:38 PM

62. It's both

terrifying and sad at the same time if we think about it.
A young life lost to shitty pressures, likely at the hand of his peers. Just thinking about it is enough to make someone have to fight back tears.
But this woman did absolutely nothing wrong. I'd bet bank that the last thing she ever wanted to do was "shoot a bad guy".

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:13 PM

47. Natural predators hunt down kill things that run.

 

Have fun with your running.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:16 PM

48. The rest of her life might have been measured in minutes with a violent rape.

 

Never run.

Not ever.

It triggers a violent instinct in a predator.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:30 PM

19. It may turn out that the 13 y/o was unarmed

We'll know more later about the circumstances. In the meantime, your headline may not be accurate.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:36 PM

24. It doesn't matter if he was the one armed,

he's just as complicit, but it should never have happened in the first place and now he's dead.

I'm not defending the kid, nor the woman, that's not my point here, as I've said numerous times.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:49 PM

29. We are using the same story to make two, separate points.

We actually both agree on the points e are making. I agree with your point and it appears you agree with mine.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:55 PM

30. Aye Matey, we've reached an accord.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:36 PM

61. That's her story anyway. Were there any witnesses?

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #61)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:40 PM

63. That is a good question, I haven't read anything about witnesses,

but I've got to believe there is video of it somewhere what with all the security cameras prevalent.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #63)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:41 PM

64. But you seem to believe it.

Cuz she said so. After killing a 13 year old boy.


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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #64)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:45 PM

66. What?

I don't believe I said that, my whole argument is that the easy availability of guns is what led to this tragedy, a kid is dead and a woman has to live with it.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #66)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:51 PM

67. Sorry.

Just reading the thug/gang comments in the thread and the defense of this woman when there are no further details available and no one knows if there are any witnesses... makes me a little on edge.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #67)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:59 PM

68. No problem at all.

I hope there is video of this, it should put to rest any questions on this shooting.

Believe me, I'm not defending nor condemning her, if it went down as she says and there's proof of it, then she had every right to defend herself, but for the easy availability of guns, this probably wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't be having this conversation and a 13 yo kid would probably still be alive.

It's a tragedy that shouldn't have happened, but it did.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 05:40 AM

81. I wondered why someone would draw there gun when a baddie had their gun aimed at them.

A sure fire way of getting shot I would think. I wouldn't attempt to do so until I first got behind cover.

I never considered the possibility that the woman was mistaken or lying when she said one of the gang aimed a gun at her. Until we learn more, there is the possibility that none of the gang had a gun.

If there was a gun, we don't know if the 13 y/o was the one aiming it at the woman. If he wasn't, that means the woman missed the guy who actually was threatening her life and killed someone who wasn't.

The point you are trying to make is a valid one which I agree with but it's only valid if it's shown beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one of the gang actually had a gun.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:18 PM

50. A bullet's speed is measured in

hundreds of feet per second, how fast do you suppose this woman could have retreated?

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Response to ripcord (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:05 PM

8. I understand that some place a premium on material things over a life.

Your comment:

"I will never understand people who leap the the defense of criminals and blame the victim for not standing aside."

What training program did you attend that teaches it's best to confront baddies?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:09 PM

70. Seems it was the thieves who cared more about material possessions than human life

At least one of them came armed when they broke into her car, now the 4 who are left alive will probably face murder charges.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #70)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:55 PM

74. Everybody involved cared more about material things then life.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #74)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 09:20 PM

75. The woman cared about her life

It was the thieves that started the violence, hopefully they will pay the full price for getting one of their own killed by their greed and casual disregard for human life. This woman has nothing to be ashamed of, all she wanted was for these criminals not to steal from her and you think she was the problem. You have some serious blinders on to think people are going to sit by and be passive victims to a bunch of street thieves.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #75)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 03:55 AM

79. Again, what reputable self defense course teaches one to do that?

The baddy already had his gun aimed at her and she could have been shot while attempting to draw her gun. Would you been fine with that? While she knew she was armed, she had no idea how many of the gang were armed or if they were armed and how willing they were to kill. Thats' not s situation s responsible gun owner puts themselves into.

I wouldn't have any issue about what the woman did if the gang was beating up someone because then it's a preservation of life and limb situation.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #79)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 09:41 AM

89. People are not going to be passive victims just to please you

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going out and telling someone not to steal from you, the full fault of this lands on the thieves but I notice you haven't mentioned how wrong everything the criminal who has carrying a weapon illegal weapon was. Strange that you save your criticism for the law abiding person in this confrontation.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:18 PM

13. I am sure she appreciates your deciding she did not have a right to defend herself.

 

And not all 13 year old kids are still small.

Some can be 6ft tall with facial hair.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:22 PM

15. She was defending her car.

If she had not had a gun, I doubt she would of confronted a gang of at least 4. I wouldn't even if I had a gun. Cars are replaceable. Lives are not.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:22 PM

39. You are so morally superior to much of humanity

 

I guess

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #39)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:40 PM

43. I take training and proper use of a gun seriously

Guns are dangerous.

You are free to think otherwise.

I also value life more then material things.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:17 PM

57. "Guns are dangerous"

Damn right they are dangerous, that's the entire point of having one.
If one goes around robbing and pillaging, they will eventually meet this woman in one form or another.
It is not a sustainable career.
Pointing guns at people is a quick way to either 6ft under, or a lifetime wearing orange jumpsuits. It always ends one way or the other, and even a 13 year-old knows this.

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Response to ForgedCrank (Reply #57)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:45 PM

72. It happen to all who rely on a gun

When the guns come out, very bad things can happen. Either to the bad guys or good guys. It's Russian Roulette.

I doubt this woman would have confronted this gang of 4 or more had she not had a gun. And what's the worst that could have happened had she not confronted the gang? Her car would have been broken into and some stuff inside stolen and that's about it.

For some, the important thing is that the car was saved even at the cost of a life.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:30 PM

40. They didn't point a gun at the car, they pointed a gun at HER.

A gun pointed at you is a threat to your life.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:46 PM

44. Why did they point the gun at her?

As I've repeatedly said, I'm unaware of any self defense course that teaches people to confront baddies when there is no apparent risk to one's own life or to that of anyone else. A car isn't worth risking one's life for nor is it worth taking another person's life for.

If you know of such a course, please let me know.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:37 PM

46. You don't need a course, it's the default human response.

If someone is messing with your car, most people will say something. When those confronted, instead of doing the normal teen response of running away, chose to threaten lethal force, she responded appropriately.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:10 PM

55. No, she most certainly

was not "defending her car", she was defending her life.
Two things happened here. A car break-in, and she justifiably confronted that.
She then shot the derelict when he threatened her life with a gun. He lost that ill advised gamble.

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Response to ForgedCrank (Reply #55)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:47 PM

73. The article doesn't say the 13 y/o had a gun

"A car break-in, and she justifiably confronted that."

What self defense training course teaches that?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #73)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 11:25 PM

76. I'm not sure

why you are fixated on the unrelated subject of training. This woman defended herself in a pretty much textbook manner.
But you know, had she not tried to live in Chicago, none of this would have ever happened either, so obviously this is all her fault.
If you wish to stand in the dark and watch people destroy your property, then hey, I'm not here to stop you. Most of the rest of us are going to confront crime though.

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Response to ForgedCrank (Reply #76)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 04:03 AM

80. Everybody who has a gun for self defense ought to have training

Last edited Fri Aug 5, 2022, 05:19 AM - Edit history (1)

If you have a gun, what did your training teach you? If you don't have a gun, then go ahead and confront crime if you wish but I wouldn't advise that for the same reason I wouldn't advise sn armed person to confront material crime.

I think there's several members here who carry in public for self defense. So far, none have chimed in and said what their training taught them to do in such a situation. The people who have responded may not have a gun themselves or they have a gun but had no training or have a gun and had training but don't want to say because it would support my argument or they just haven't seen my posts.

I have a gun but I don't carry in public because I feel I'm not trained well enough to do so and I don't have the desire to put in the time and effort to reach a point where I feel I can competently handle a gun out in public. I don't have it available for home defense either because I shattered my shoulder earlier this year and cannot maintain a satisfactory level of training. I hope to be well enough to recommence the training by fall.

Guns are dangerous and having one is committing oneself to a lot of time training. Not just at the range but acquiring situational awareness and practicing self defense with a gun at some facility or in your home.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:42 PM

52. He pointed a gun at her

Unless you don't believe that, the contents of the car have nothing to do with it.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:53 PM

2. 13 year olds are already gang members here.

I don't know if this was the hood but really young kids can be really dangerous. They grow up with drugs and guns and violence. No one cares where they are.

And they die young.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 12:58 PM

5. And mix that in with the easy availability of guns

and this happens, a 13 yo kid is dead and the woman has to live with the fact that she took a life will haunt her forever.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:30 PM

36. A 13 year old boy in Manitowoc was caught with a gun.

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Response to Archae (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:32 PM

37. Thank you,

this illustrates my point exactly, the easy availability of guns.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #37)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:35 PM

42. The hood is full of stolen guns.

In the early '70s I lived next door to a man who was black, grew up in the hood. He was a fire chief. He told about gangs of 5 and 6 year olds that were dangerous as hell.

It's a terrible problem. How do you save the kids? The gangs recruit kids to work as runners. These are kids that often have no supervision growing up.

Thise gang guys dress nice, have lots of spending money, drive cool cars. Minimum wage jobs don't compare so the kids go down the gang road.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #42)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:25 PM

58. If I had to guess,

I would think that the younger they are, the more dangerous they can be in certain ways.
They have not yet developed the wisdom and understanding required to think things through and may be even more willing to do atrocious things.
Again, that's just a wild guess, but I would think some aspects of it would be true. A 10 year-old boy would be more prone to believe that a gun in his hand makes him invincible, failing to adequately consider the potential consequences.
Many are also taught the well known fact that as a minor, they can get by with a lot more, and even if they get caught, the consequences are generally temporary.
This is just stuff I've picked up from various documentary style films, I can't attest to the accuracy, but it makes sense.

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Response to ForgedCrank (Reply #58)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:44 PM

65. Very true, some of the scariest people in Africa were the child soldiers in rebel groups

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #5)


Response to Post removed (Reply #83)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:08 AM

86. Unless you've killled someone,

you wouldn't understand.
The only ones not affected by killing someone, whether justified or not, are psychos who have no conscience.

If someone was threatening her life why would it haunt her forever?
View profile
It would be a bad decision if she was rape until her insides were torn out and then they slit her throat.

I guess you think she should have chosen that fate.


Just where in the fuck did you come up with that crap?
It's a fucking, disgusting lie and you should really delete that lie.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #86)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:21 AM

87. oh oh oh

 

it was just a tiny helpless oppressed child

A criminal with a gun needing unauthorized of another person's motor vehicle.

He should have have been allowed to do it freely and given a cookie.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #87)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:23 AM

88. Yeah??

Why don't you show us just where I said such a thing?

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:31 PM

41. A gun in the hand of a 13 year old is just as deadly as in the hand of a 31 year old.

 

I'm supposed to wait to see if they only want to rob me or steal my car?

Not happening.

I have a right to deadly force if I feel threatened.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #41)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:06 PM

69. The situation in the hood in KCMO hasn't really changed

in 50 years. It's the same problems today that they have always had. The area has grown and there are a lot more guns now. Violence and drugs.

It's an intractable problem. They have spent millions on all sorts of programs and nothing even makes a dent in it. I would bet that 80% of all our crime comes from that area. It just gets worse.

My MA is in Public Affairs and Not for Profit so this stuff is interesting to me. It's the same phenomena in every city. People get trapped and can't find a way out because they don't have the right social skills and language.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #69)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:17 PM

71. I am not going to ask for a birth certificate before I protect myself

 

This poster has a ridiculous notion of childhood innocence.

There are ten year old kids that will kill you for a few dollars.

It will elevate them in the gang.

Go ahead and think they just want a hug and a cookie though.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:03 PM

7. There was an 11 year old involved in a carjacking earlier this summer in Chicago.

Too many kids raised on and by the streets.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:09 PM

10. This is just beyond the pale,



There HAS to be something that can be done, gun control laws would be a good start, but it has to go beyond that.

How about heavily investing in rebuilding our infrastructure, investing in our education system, job training, etc?

I know, I know, the repukes would throw a temper tantrum and do everything in their power to sabotage any such proposals, but god dammit, something needs to be done.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:28 PM

18. I understand what you're saying

How in the world did a 13 yr old get his hands on a gun?

But, I would say that by the time a kid is 13, he has already been assimilated into that kind of life. I think we need to catch these kids while they are kindergarten age--boys and girls--to help them think in a different way. That they can aim for a better, longer life.

I also feel the same way about kids being raised by MAGAT parents.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:31 PM

21. Article doesn't say the 13 y/o had the gun

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Response to Bayard (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:32 PM

22. Thank you.

That is a very good suggestion, I would like to see some sort of intervention without violating the rights of parents to raise their children, how? I don't know, I leave that up to far more intelligent people than me.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:37 PM

26. Restricting gun access is quickly becoming impossible

Both due to the absurd number already in circulation and the increasing ease of home builds.

Fixing our broken society may be the only long term fix.

To me the penultimate root cause is the enrichment of the 1% at the expense of everyone else. Economic stress and money problems is a common factor in divorce. Financial strain also is bad for mental health and the formation of healthy long term relationships. For two parent households, the overwhelming majority need to have both parents working. Either way, parents are not present as much as the should be and children's well-being and upbringing suffers. Young adults face a world stacked against them and with less opportunities than their parents. There should be no surprise that incidents like this and also mass shootings are overwhelmingly carried out by young people

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Response to Amishman (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:42 PM

28. +100. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:34 PM

60. I am of the opinion

that "something" won't fix it, it will require a combination of many things in order to have a measurable effect.
I could list hundreds of ideas. Legal owners required to properly secure, more parental power and oversight (with state backing), changes in cultivated degenerate and criminal culture, I could go on for hours probably. Even the standard of living for people is a factor in their behaviors.
Gun bans, or example, are at the bottom of my list of what I would consider effective measures. I take a lot of flak for that position, but I absolutely believe it, I'm not the go-along type. I'm painfully honest with myself, regardless of how inconvenient it can be at times.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:30 PM

20. I'm sure it happens. Still not worth all the dead school children.

Fuck guns and the Gunfuckers who love them.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:33 PM

23. +100. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:22 PM

33. The details are thin, but I support...


...someone who confronts criminals to demand that they stop victimizing them.

And should that criminal or criminals threaten the victim with a gun, the victim is well within their rights to defend themselves.

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Response to SYFROYH (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:24 PM

34. I'm unaware of any self defense course that teaches that.

It might turnout ok or you may be confronting someone more skilled, lucky and deadly then you are. It's like playing Russian Roulette.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:42 PM

38. Those are two separate things.


1. Demanding that someone stop victimizing you is one thing.

2. Using force to defend yourself should the perpetrator threaten force is something else

Life is risky and you make your choices.

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Response to SYFROYH (Reply #38)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:57 PM

45. That's why training is so important.

You lessen the risk.

You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have to use deadly force. Proper training can help one avoid that.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 06:19 AM

82. Well in reality if she would not have been born in the first place

None of this would have happened...amiright?

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Response to radicalleft (Reply #82)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 06:38 AM

84. You have every right to treat the gun issue as a joke

I just hope you don't have a gun yourself.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:00 AM

85. What is a joke

is you blaming this poor woman because she confronted some kids breaking into her car! You take this cavalier attitude that no car should be worth a confrontation, but what if perhaps in her situation, that car is the difference between her having roof over her head or being homeless. Just because she might have insurance, maybe her deductible would be too much to handle...

In you mind, at what point should one defend ones personal interests?

And btw...yes I do in fact have not just a gun, but several.

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Response to radicalleft (Reply #85)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 11:07 AM

91. What has your training with guns taught you?

Have you ever had any training in the use of a gun for self defense? If you are just expressing an uneducated option, just say so. This is a discussion board and people can express their opinions regardless if they know what they are talking about or not.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:02 PM

93. Did you notice my avatar?

Yes, I have in fact had hours upon hours upon hours of training. As a former military police member and a current CPL license holder, I know full well the first option is to stay out of harms way...however, if I see someone messing with my car, my initial reaction is going to be to confront the individual - how they choose to respond after that determines the outcomes that follow.

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Response to radicalleft (Reply #93)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 02:50 PM

95. I think we agree that one purpose of training...

is to override our initial reaction.

I'm not slamming this woman. I do think we can study the incident, discuss it and learn from it.

I have a CPL too but the requirement to get one here in Michigan isn't high and I feel I'm not adequately trained to carry in public. I don't have the inclination to spend the money and time taking more advanced courses and practicing what I've been taught so I reach the level I ought to be to carry off my property.

My revolver is stowed away as I shattered my shoulder and cannot practice my home defense drills with the (unloaded)gun. I can't do much of anything yet with my new shoulder. I hope by fall I'll have some use of my arm back so I can begin practicing the drills again.

The main reasons I got my CPL is to make it a tad easier to transport the gun to and from the shooting range outside of town and the other reason is do I can legally have in my possession a revolver owned by a brother who is working overseas. I also wanted the training.

I have no issue or disagreement with what you said in your post.

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Response to SYFROYH (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:27 PM

35. I support self defense also and her right to defend herself, I never said otherwise,

my whole contention is that this wouldn't have likely happened if the kid or his companions hadn't been able to get a gun so easily.

There's a 13 yo kid dead and a woman who has to live with the consequences of this.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:18 PM

49. I agree that kids have no reason to have a gun on the streets

But doing away with illegal weapons means not just passing laws but also enforcing them. The robber who was shot by the store owner was carrying a weapon banned under California's assault weapon ban, he is facing 8 years just for possessing it, he should get a lot more time for using it in a crime. We all know he won't get anywhere near the maximum though.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:48 PM

53. This is a perfect example of the easy availability of firearms.

In other words, a normal glorious day in GunMurka!

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Response to 48656c6c6f20 (Reply #53)

Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:15 PM

56. Yeah, pretty much. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:20 AM

77. 13 year old shot

So just food for thought, how does anybody suppose this would have played out if it had been a cop instead of this woman who confronted the kid and got a gun pointed at him/her? after all they are supposed to be the highly trained professionals at this sort of stuff, you know. I think,, for some reason,,. it still would have gone down the same anyway

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:37 AM

78. This is the USA for Pete's sake!!!

If you try to rob someone at gunpoint, the chances of that someone being armed and willing to shoot back are probably greater here than anyplace else, except maybe El Salvador, Honduras or Afghanistan.

If you are going to pull out a gun while robbing somebody, you and anyone with you had better be prepared to get shot, because the person you're robbing can't know if you have a "leave no witnesses" policy for your victims or not.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 10:03 AM

90. The criminals are the parents of those kids.

My children and grandchildren wouldn’t have, never in 1 million years, thought to do something so insane, and believe me they did some stupid shit, all of them. You can blame drugs and bad peer influence, etc., but if you establish a trusting relationship with your child at a very early age, they will have developed a conscience and moral character long before the age of 13.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #90)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 11:56 AM

92. Yes, yes, yes,

IMO, the parents are just as culpable as these kids are for not setting boundaries and enforcing those boundaries.

I don't know what these kids' stories are, so I'm not really in a position to judge their home life, but they should not have been out robbing citizens with a gun that they shouldn't have even been able to get their hands on.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #90)

Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:51 PM

94. I disagree.

You just don't know the circumstances of the parents and their/her/his efforts to control that kid. Some kids are not controllable, and some parents do not get any help to shape them up.

The woman did not draw her own weapon until they pointed a gun at her. She had one, but didn't use it until she needed it to defend herself. She had every right to confront them, and we don't know what that car meant to her own circumstances.

Kids think they know everything; apparently, these kids didn't know that pointing a deadly weapon at someone would get them shot. Serious misjudgment! Of course, we all feel bad that such a young boy would get killed, but the woman had the right to defend herself, and she did.

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