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MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:23 PM Aug 2022

Chicago would-be robber dies after woman stands her ground and shoots him

A Chicago teenager died days after he and a group attempted to rob an armed 32-year-old woman on the city's South Side.

The incident occurred July 29 in the Woodlawn area around 8:00 p.m., according to a report.

At least four males attempted to break into the woman's parked car when she confronted the would-be robbers

One of the males whipped out a weapon and pointed it at the woman, the report noted.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/chicago-would-be-robber-dies-after-woman-stands-her-ground-and-shoots-him/ar-AA10iQsh?cvid=7c606f98c31e4448b095335f06dd6657

For me, this isn't about a good citizen with a gun story, my question is:

What the fuck is a 13 year old kid doing running around committing armed robbery?
This is a perfect example of the easy availability of firearms.
95 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Chicago would-be robber dies after woman stands her ground and shoots him (Original Post) MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 OP
Apperently, the car and contents of same was worth the life of a 13 y/o. Kaleva Aug 2022 #1
No doubt she was defending herself from armed robbers, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #3
How dare she want them to stop breaking into her car ripcord Aug 2022 #4
Myself, I'm not faulting the woman for doing what she had to do, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #6
She didn't have to confront. She could have retreated. Kaleva Aug 2022 #9
I agree, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #11
The article isn't clear as to which thug had the gun Kaleva Aug 2022 #12
For me, it doesn't matter who had the gun, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #14
It wouldn't be with her for the rest of her life if she had retreated Kaleva Aug 2022 #16
I already agreed with you, but that's a moot point now, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #17
We don't know the ages of all of them. Kaleva Aug 2022 #25
.... MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #27
But thanks I really want to know who the pacifists are alphafemale Aug 2022 #51
At least she has a life. BlackSkimmer Aug 2022 #31
She went to confront at least 4 people attempting to break in to her parked car Kaleva Aug 2022 #32
Seriosuly? ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #54
The group saw her Mz Pip Aug 2022 #59
It's both ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #62
Natural predators hunt down kill things that run. alphafemale Aug 2022 #47
The rest of her life might have been measured in minutes with a violent rape. alphafemale Aug 2022 #48
It may turn out that the 13 y/o was unarmed Kaleva Aug 2022 #19
It doesn't matter if he was the one armed, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #24
We are using the same story to make two, separate points. Kaleva Aug 2022 #29
Aye Matey, we've reached an accord. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #30
That's her story anyway. Were there any witnesses? MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #61
That is a good question, I haven't read anything about witnesses, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #63
But you seem to believe it. MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #64
What? MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #66
Sorry. MrsCoffee Aug 2022 #67
No problem at all. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #68
I wondered why someone would draw there gun when a baddie had their gun aimed at them. Kaleva Aug 2022 #81
A bullet's speed is measured in Zeitghost Aug 2022 #50
I understand that some place a premium on material things over a life. Kaleva Aug 2022 #8
Seems it was the thieves who cared more about material possessions than human life ripcord Aug 2022 #70
Everybody involved cared more about material things then life. Kaleva Aug 2022 #74
The woman cared about her life ripcord Aug 2022 #75
Again, what reputable self defense course teaches one to do that? Kaleva Aug 2022 #79
People are not going to be passive victims just to please you ripcord Aug 2022 #89
I am sure she appreciates your deciding she did not have a right to defend herself. alphafemale Aug 2022 #13
She was defending her car. Kaleva Aug 2022 #15
You are so morally superior to much of humanity alphafemale Aug 2022 #39
I take training and proper use of a gun seriously Kaleva Aug 2022 #43
"Guns are dangerous" ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #57
It happen to all who rely on a gun Kaleva Aug 2022 #72
They didn't point a gun at the car, they pointed a gun at HER. NutmegYankee Aug 2022 #40
Why did they point the gun at her? Kaleva Aug 2022 #44
You don't need a course, it's the default human response. NutmegYankee Aug 2022 #46
No, she most certainly ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #55
The article doesn't say the 13 y/o had a gun Kaleva Aug 2022 #73
I'm not sure ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #76
Everybody who has a gun for self defense ought to have training Kaleva Aug 2022 #80
He pointed a gun at her treestar Aug 2022 #52
13 year olds are already gang members here. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #2
And mix that in with the easy availability of guns MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #5
A 13 year old boy in Manitowoc was caught with a gun. Archae Aug 2022 #36
Thank you, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #37
The hood is full of stolen guns. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #42
If I had to guess, ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #58
Very true, some of the scariest people in Africa were the child soldiers in rebel groups EX500rider Aug 2022 #65
Post removed Post removed Aug 2022 #83
Unless you've killled someone, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #86
oh oh oh alphafemale Aug 2022 #87
Yeah?? MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #88
A gun in the hand of a 13 year old is just as deadly as in the hand of a 31 year old. alphafemale Aug 2022 #41
The situation in the hood in KCMO hasn't really changed leftyladyfrommo Aug 2022 #69
I am not going to ask for a birth certificate before I protect myself alphafemale Aug 2022 #71
There was an 11 year old involved in a carjacking earlier this summer in Chicago. Ace Rothstein Aug 2022 #7
This is just beyond the pale, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #10
I understand what you're saying Bayard Aug 2022 #18
Article doesn't say the 13 y/o had the gun Kaleva Aug 2022 #21
Thank you. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #22
Restricting gun access is quickly becoming impossible Amishman Aug 2022 #26
+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #28
I am of the opinion ForgedCrank Aug 2022 #60
I'm sure it happens. Still not worth all the dead school children. Iggo Aug 2022 #20
+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #23
The details are thin, but I support... SYFROYH Aug 2022 #33
I'm unaware of any self defense course that teaches that. Kaleva Aug 2022 #34
Those are two separate things. SYFROYH Aug 2022 #38
That's why training is so important. Kaleva Aug 2022 #45
Well in reality if she would not have been born in the first place radicalleft Aug 2022 #82
You have every right to treat the gun issue as a joke Kaleva Aug 2022 #84
What is a joke radicalleft Aug 2022 #85
What has your training with guns taught you? Kaleva Aug 2022 #91
Did you notice my avatar? radicalleft Aug 2022 #93
I think we agree that one purpose of training... Kaleva Aug 2022 #95
I support self defense also and her right to defend herself, I never said otherwise, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #35
I agree that kids have no reason to have a gun on the streets ripcord Aug 2022 #49
This is a perfect example of the easy availability of firearms. 48656c6c6f20 Aug 2022 #53
Yeah, pretty much. nt MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #56
13 year old shot intelpug Aug 2022 #77
This is the USA for Pete's sake!!! DFW Aug 2022 #78
The criminals are the parents of those kids. tavernier Aug 2022 #90
Yes, yes, yes, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2022 #92
I disagree. EndlessWire Aug 2022 #94

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
1. Apperently, the car and contents of same was worth the life of a 13 y/o.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:49 PM
Aug 2022

If one follows the links, the woman confronted the group that was attempting to break into her parked car.


"CHICAGO -- A 13-year-old boy died days after he was shot during an attempted robbery in Woodlawn on the South Side.

On July 29, a group of four to five males were attempting to break into a parked car about 8 p.m. in the 1100-block of East 62nd Street, Chicago police said.

When the owner of the car - a 32-year-old woman - confronted the group, one of the suspects pointed a gun at her, police said. The woman pulled out her own gun and fired a shot."

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-woodlawn-attempted-robbery-east-62nd-street/12097495/

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
3. No doubt she was defending herself from armed robbers,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:56 PM
Aug 2022

but that kid shouldn't have had a gun in the first place and shouldn't have been out on the streets at 8:00 p.m..

I'm not anti 2A, far from it, but there has to be a way to prevent this from happening without violating the rights of those who are legally allowed to own firearms.

If this kid hadn't been able to get his hands on a firearm, who knows how his life would've turned out, now, it'll never be known because of the bad choice he made and the easy availability of firearms on the streets.

Ok, that's my rant for the day.
Have a great Wed.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
4. How dare she want them to stop breaking into her car
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:57 PM
Aug 2022

And of course when one of the criminals pulled a gun on her she should have let him shoot her. The criminals aren't the victims here. I will never understand people who leap the the defense of criminals and blame the victim for not standing aside. Once they pulled a gun on the victim the criminals age becomes irrelevant.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
6. Myself, I'm not faulting the woman for doing what she had to do,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:00 PM
Aug 2022

my contention is that the 13 yo should never have had the gun in the first place and now a 32 yo woman will have to live with the knowledge that she killed a person, that can really weigh on the mind.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
9. She didn't have to confront. She could have retreated.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:08 PM
Aug 2022

Now I admit I don't know the whole story and she might not have had a path to retreat.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
11. I agree,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:10 PM
Aug 2022

but my whole point here is that this kid should never have been able to get his hands on a firearm.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
12. The article isn't clear as to which thug had the gun
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:12 PM
Aug 2022

One of the 5 had the gun but it doesn't specify which.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
14. For me, it doesn't matter who had the gun,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:19 PM
Aug 2022

they should have never had the gun in the first place.

It's a tragedy that this kid died because he was with a group of people whose intent was armed robbery and this woman took the life of a 13 yo, even though it will more than likely be ruled a justified homicide, it will still be with her for the rest of her days.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
17. I already agreed with you, but that's a moot point now,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:28 PM
Aug 2022

she did and now she will have to live with that, again, my whole point here is that those kids should never have been able to get their hands on a firearm and be doing armed robbery.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
25. We don't know the ages of all of them.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:36 PM
Aug 2022

But no one who has committed or intends to commit a crime while armed should be allowed to have a gun. I don't know how one would accomplish that unless there was a total ban. Many mass shooters were legally allowed to buy their weapons.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
27. ....
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:40 PM
Aug 2022
Kaleva

25. We don't know the ages of all of them.
View profile
But no one who has committed or intends to commit a crime while should be allowed to have a gun. I don't know how one would accomplish that unless there was a total ban. Many mass shooters were legally allowed to buy their weapons.


You're right, short of an all out ban, which will NEVER happen, at least not in my lifetime and far beyond that, but there are many things on the gun control side that can be done without infringing on the rights of citizens who are lawfully allowed to own firearms.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
51. But thanks I really want to know who the pacifists are
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:19 PM
Aug 2022

So I know who not to have around because they would just watch a child be raped and murdered.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
31. At least she has a life.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:57 PM
Aug 2022

When someone points a gun at you, assume they mean to use it.

Not sure how you think a person can "retreat" from a speeding bullet.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
32. She went to confront at least 4 people attempting to break in to her parked car
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:04 PM
Aug 2022

She wasn't in the car.

So, she put herself into that situation.

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
54. Seriosuly?
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:04 PM
Aug 2022

You expect someone to sit back and watch a gang of degenerates destroy and steal her hard-earned property? Maybe her only way to get to work and shuttle her family around? Is it also her fault for parking her car on the street knowing it might get stolen? I mean, had she not parked it there, none of this would have happened, right?
I see a strong-willed woman willing to defend herself and her property, and she did exactly what she had to do.
The misguided 13 year-old got exactly what he asked for, regardless of how unaware he was of the realities of life at that age. there are other people to blame for his behavior. And in a just world, his accomplices would be charged with the murder since they were in the act of committing a felony when their buddy was shot.
Victim blaming is not something I can't get behind, and this woman is most certainly the only real victim in this story.

Mz Pip

(27,404 posts)
59. The group saw her
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:32 PM
Aug 2022

One of them pointed a gun at her. She had a split second to decide what to do. Who knows what these thugs would have done to her if she hadn’t defended herself.

If I’d been in her shoes I wouldn’t have taken the time second guess what would happen next.

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
62. It's both
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:38 PM
Aug 2022

terrifying and sad at the same time if we think about it.
A young life lost to shitty pressures, likely at the hand of his peers. Just thinking about it is enough to make someone have to fight back tears.
But this woman did absolutely nothing wrong. I'd bet bank that the last thing she ever wanted to do was "shoot a bad guy".

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
48. The rest of her life might have been measured in minutes with a violent rape.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:16 PM
Aug 2022

Never run.

Not ever.

It triggers a violent instinct in a predator.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
19. It may turn out that the 13 y/o was unarmed
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:30 PM
Aug 2022

We'll know more later about the circumstances. In the meantime, your headline may not be accurate.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
24. It doesn't matter if he was the one armed,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:36 PM
Aug 2022

he's just as complicit, but it should never have happened in the first place and now he's dead.

I'm not defending the kid, nor the woman, that's not my point here, as I've said numerous times.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
29. We are using the same story to make two, separate points.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:49 PM
Aug 2022

We actually both agree on the points e are making. I agree with your point and it appears you agree with mine.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
63. That is a good question, I haven't read anything about witnesses,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:40 PM
Aug 2022

but I've got to believe there is video of it somewhere what with all the security cameras prevalent.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
66. What?
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:45 PM
Aug 2022

I don't believe I said that, my whole argument is that the easy availability of guns is what led to this tragedy, a kid is dead and a woman has to live with it.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
67. Sorry.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:51 PM
Aug 2022

Just reading the thug/gang comments in the thread and the defense of this woman when there are no further details available and no one knows if there are any witnesses... makes me a little on edge.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
68. No problem at all.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:59 PM
Aug 2022

I hope there is video of this, it should put to rest any questions on this shooting.

Believe me, I'm not defending nor condemning her, if it went down as she says and there's proof of it, then she had every right to defend herself, but for the easy availability of guns, this probably wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't be having this conversation and a 13 yo kid would probably still be alive.

It's a tragedy that shouldn't have happened, but it did.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
81. I wondered why someone would draw there gun when a baddie had their gun aimed at them.
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 06:40 AM
Aug 2022

A sure fire way of getting shot I would think. I wouldn't attempt to do so until I first got behind cover.

I never considered the possibility that the woman was mistaken or lying when she said one of the gang aimed a gun at her. Until we learn more, there is the possibility that none of the gang had a gun.

If there was a gun, we don't know if the 13 y/o was the one aiming it at the woman. If he wasn't, that means the woman missed the guy who actually was threatening her life and killed someone who wasn't.

The point you are trying to make is a valid one which I agree with but it's only valid if it's shown beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one of the gang actually had a gun.

Zeitghost

(3,796 posts)
50. A bullet's speed is measured in
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:18 PM
Aug 2022

hundreds of feet per second, how fast do you suppose this woman could have retreated?

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
8. I understand that some place a premium on material things over a life.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:05 PM
Aug 2022

Your comment:

"I will never understand people who leap the the defense of criminals and blame the victim for not standing aside."

What training program did you attend that teaches it's best to confront baddies?

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
70. Seems it was the thieves who cared more about material possessions than human life
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:09 PM
Aug 2022

At least one of them came armed when they broke into her car, now the 4 who are left alive will probably face murder charges.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
75. The woman cared about her life
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 10:20 PM
Aug 2022

It was the thieves that started the violence, hopefully they will pay the full price for getting one of their own killed by their greed and casual disregard for human life. This woman has nothing to be ashamed of, all she wanted was for these criminals not to steal from her and you think she was the problem. You have some serious blinders on to think people are going to sit by and be passive victims to a bunch of street thieves.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
79. Again, what reputable self defense course teaches one to do that?
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 04:55 AM
Aug 2022

The baddy already had his gun aimed at her and she could have been shot while attempting to draw her gun. Would you been fine with that? While she knew she was armed, she had no idea how many of the gang were armed or if they were armed and how willing they were to kill. Thats' not s situation s responsible gun owner puts themselves into.

I wouldn't have any issue about what the woman did if the gang was beating up someone because then it's a preservation of life and limb situation.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
89. People are not going to be passive victims just to please you
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 10:41 AM
Aug 2022

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going out and telling someone not to steal from you, the full fault of this lands on the thieves but I notice you haven't mentioned how wrong everything the criminal who has carrying a weapon illegal weapon was. Strange that you save your criticism for the law abiding person in this confrontation.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
13. I am sure she appreciates your deciding she did not have a right to defend herself.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:18 PM
Aug 2022

And not all 13 year old kids are still small.

Some can be 6ft tall with facial hair.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
15. She was defending her car.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:22 PM
Aug 2022

If she had not had a gun, I doubt she would of confronted a gang of at least 4. I wouldn't even if I had a gun. Cars are replaceable. Lives are not.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
43. I take training and proper use of a gun seriously
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:40 PM
Aug 2022

Guns are dangerous.

You are free to think otherwise.

I also value life more then material things.

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
57. "Guns are dangerous"
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:17 PM
Aug 2022

Damn right they are dangerous, that's the entire point of having one.
If one goes around robbing and pillaging, they will eventually meet this woman in one form or another.
It is not a sustainable career.
Pointing guns at people is a quick way to either 6ft under, or a lifetime wearing orange jumpsuits. It always ends one way or the other, and even a 13 year-old knows this.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
72. It happen to all who rely on a gun
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 09:45 PM
Aug 2022

When the guns come out, very bad things can happen. Either to the bad guys or good guys. It's Russian Roulette.

I doubt this woman would have confronted this gang of 4 or more had she not had a gun. And what's the worst that could have happened had she not confronted the gang? Her car would have been broken into and some stuff inside stolen and that's about it.

For some, the important thing is that the car was saved even at the cost of a life.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
40. They didn't point a gun at the car, they pointed a gun at HER.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:30 PM
Aug 2022

A gun pointed at you is a threat to your life.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
44. Why did they point the gun at her?
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:46 PM
Aug 2022

As I've repeatedly said, I'm unaware of any self defense course that teaches people to confront baddies when there is no apparent risk to one's own life or to that of anyone else. A car isn't worth risking one's life for nor is it worth taking another person's life for.

If you know of such a course, please let me know.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
46. You don't need a course, it's the default human response.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 05:37 PM
Aug 2022

If someone is messing with your car, most people will say something. When those confronted, instead of doing the normal teen response of running away, chose to threaten lethal force, she responded appropriately.

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
55. No, she most certainly
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:10 PM
Aug 2022

was not "defending her car", she was defending her life.
Two things happened here. A car break-in, and she justifiably confronted that.
She then shot the derelict when he threatened her life with a gun. He lost that ill advised gamble.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
73. The article doesn't say the 13 y/o had a gun
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 09:47 PM
Aug 2022

"A car break-in, and she justifiably confronted that."

What self defense training course teaches that?

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
76. I'm not sure
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:25 AM
Aug 2022

why you are fixated on the unrelated subject of training. This woman defended herself in a pretty much textbook manner.
But you know, had she not tried to live in Chicago, none of this would have ever happened either, so obviously this is all her fault.
If you wish to stand in the dark and watch people destroy your property, then hey, I'm not here to stop you. Most of the rest of us are going to confront crime though.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
80. Everybody who has a gun for self defense ought to have training
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 05:03 AM
Aug 2022

Last edited Fri Aug 5, 2022, 06:19 AM - Edit history (1)

If you have a gun, what did your training teach you? If you don't have a gun, then go ahead and confront crime if you wish but I wouldn't advise that for the same reason I wouldn't advise sn armed person to confront material crime.

I think there's several members here who carry in public for self defense. So far, none have chimed in and said what their training taught them to do in such a situation. The people who have responded may not have a gun themselves or they have a gun but had no training or have a gun and had training but don't want to say because it would support my argument or they just haven't seen my posts.

I have a gun but I don't carry in public because I feel I'm not trained well enough to do so and I don't have the desire to put in the time and effort to reach a point where I feel I can competently handle a gun out in public. I don't have it available for home defense either because I shattered my shoulder earlier this year and cannot maintain a satisfactory level of training. I hope to be well enough to recommence the training by fall.

Guns are dangerous and having one is committing oneself to a lot of time training. Not just at the range but acquiring situational awareness and practicing self defense with a gun at some facility or in your home.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
52. He pointed a gun at her
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:42 PM
Aug 2022

Unless you don't believe that, the contents of the car have nothing to do with it.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,815 posts)
2. 13 year olds are already gang members here.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:53 PM
Aug 2022

I don't know if this was the hood but really young kids can be really dangerous. They grow up with drugs and guns and violence. No one cares where they are.

And they die young.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
5. And mix that in with the easy availability of guns
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 01:58 PM
Aug 2022

and this happens, a 13 yo kid is dead and the woman has to live with the fact that she took a life will haunt her forever.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,815 posts)
42. The hood is full of stolen guns.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:35 PM
Aug 2022

In the early '70s I lived next door to a man who was black, grew up in the hood. He was a fire chief. He told about gangs of 5 and 6 year olds that were dangerous as hell.

It's a terrible problem. How do you save the kids? The gangs recruit kids to work as runners. These are kids that often have no supervision growing up.

Thise gang guys dress nice, have lots of spending money, drive cool cars. Minimum wage jobs don't compare so the kids go down the gang road.

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
58. If I had to guess,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:25 PM
Aug 2022

I would think that the younger they are, the more dangerous they can be in certain ways.
They have not yet developed the wisdom and understanding required to think things through and may be even more willing to do atrocious things.
Again, that's just a wild guess, but I would think some aspects of it would be true. A 10 year-old boy would be more prone to believe that a gun in his hand makes him invincible, failing to adequately consider the potential consequences.
Many are also taught the well known fact that as a minor, they can get by with a lot more, and even if they get caught, the consequences are generally temporary.
This is just stuff I've picked up from various documentary style films, I can't attest to the accuracy, but it makes sense.

Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #5)

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
86. Unless you've killled someone,
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 09:08 AM
Aug 2022

you wouldn't understand.
The only ones not affected by killing someone, whether justified or not, are psychos who have no conscience.

If someone was threatening her life why would it haunt her forever?
View profile
It would be a bad decision if she was rape until her insides were torn out and then they slit her throat.

I guess you think she should have chosen that fate.


Just where in the fuck did you come up with that crap?
It's a fucking, disgusting lie and you should really delete that lie.
 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
87. oh oh oh
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 09:21 AM
Aug 2022

it was just a tiny helpless oppressed child

A criminal with a gun needing unauthorized of another person's motor vehicle.

He should have have been allowed to do it freely and given a cookie.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
41. A gun in the hand of a 13 year old is just as deadly as in the hand of a 31 year old.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:31 PM
Aug 2022

I'm supposed to wait to see if they only want to rob me or steal my car?

Not happening.

I have a right to deadly force if I feel threatened.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,815 posts)
69. The situation in the hood in KCMO hasn't really changed
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:06 PM
Aug 2022

in 50 years. It's the same problems today that they have always had. The area has grown and there are a lot more guns now. Violence and drugs.

It's an intractable problem. They have spent millions on all sorts of programs and nothing even makes a dent in it. I would bet that 80% of all our crime comes from that area. It just gets worse.

My MA is in Public Affairs and Not for Profit so this stuff is interesting to me. It's the same phenomena in every city. People get trapped and can't find a way out because they don't have the right social skills and language.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
71. I am not going to ask for a birth certificate before I protect myself
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 08:17 PM
Aug 2022

This poster has a ridiculous notion of childhood innocence.

There are ten year old kids that will kill you for a few dollars.

It will elevate them in the gang.

Go ahead and think they just want a hug and a cookie though.

Ace Rothstein

(3,109 posts)
7. There was an 11 year old involved in a carjacking earlier this summer in Chicago.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:03 PM
Aug 2022

Too many kids raised on and by the streets.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
10. This is just beyond the pale,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:09 PM
Aug 2022


There HAS to be something that can be done, gun control laws would be a good start, but it has to go beyond that.

How about heavily investing in rebuilding our infrastructure, investing in our education system, job training, etc?

I know, I know, the repukes would throw a temper tantrum and do everything in their power to sabotage any such proposals, but god dammit, something needs to be done.

Bayard

(21,805 posts)
18. I understand what you're saying
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:28 PM
Aug 2022

How in the world did a 13 yr old get his hands on a gun?

But, I would say that by the time a kid is 13, he has already been assimilated into that kind of life. I think we need to catch these kids while they are kindergarten age--boys and girls--to help them think in a different way. That they can aim for a better, longer life.

I also feel the same way about kids being raised by MAGAT parents.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
22. Thank you.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:32 PM
Aug 2022

That is a very good suggestion, I would like to see some sort of intervention without violating the rights of parents to raise their children, how? I don't know, I leave that up to far more intelligent people than me.

Amishman

(5,540 posts)
26. Restricting gun access is quickly becoming impossible
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:37 PM
Aug 2022

Both due to the absurd number already in circulation and the increasing ease of home builds.

Fixing our broken society may be the only long term fix.

To me the penultimate root cause is the enrichment of the 1% at the expense of everyone else. Economic stress and money problems is a common factor in divorce. Financial strain also is bad for mental health and the formation of healthy long term relationships. For two parent households, the overwhelming majority need to have both parents working. Either way, parents are not present as much as the should be and children's well-being and upbringing suffers. Young adults face a world stacked against them and with less opportunities than their parents. There should be no surprise that incidents like this and also mass shootings are overwhelmingly carried out by young people

ForgedCrank

(1,723 posts)
60. I am of the opinion
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 07:34 PM
Aug 2022

that "something" won't fix it, it will require a combination of many things in order to have a measurable effect.
I could list hundreds of ideas. Legal owners required to properly secure, more parental power and oversight (with state backing), changes in cultivated degenerate and criminal culture, I could go on for hours probably. Even the standard of living for people is a factor in their behaviors.
Gun bans, or example, are at the bottom of my list of what I would consider effective measures. I take a lot of flak for that position, but I absolutely believe it, I'm not the go-along type. I'm painfully honest with myself, regardless of how inconvenient it can be at times.

Iggo

(47,487 posts)
20. I'm sure it happens. Still not worth all the dead school children.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 02:30 PM
Aug 2022

Fuck guns and the Gunfuckers who love them.

SYFROYH

(34,127 posts)
33. The details are thin, but I support...
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:22 PM
Aug 2022

...someone who confronts criminals to demand that they stop victimizing them.

And should that criminal or criminals threaten the victim with a gun, the victim is well within their rights to defend themselves.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
34. I'm unaware of any self defense course that teaches that.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:24 PM
Aug 2022

It might turnout ok or you may be confronting someone more skilled, lucky and deadly then you are. It's like playing Russian Roulette.

SYFROYH

(34,127 posts)
38. Those are two separate things.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:42 PM
Aug 2022

1. Demanding that someone stop victimizing you is one thing.

2. Using force to defend yourself should the perpetrator threaten force is something else

Life is risky and you make your choices.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
45. That's why training is so important.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 04:57 PM
Aug 2022

You lessen the risk.

You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have to use deadly force. Proper training can help one avoid that.

radicalleft

(478 posts)
82. Well in reality if she would not have been born in the first place
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 07:19 AM
Aug 2022

None of this would have happened...amiright?

radicalleft

(478 posts)
85. What is a joke
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 08:00 AM
Aug 2022

is you blaming this poor woman because she confronted some kids breaking into her car! You take this cavalier attitude that no car should be worth a confrontation, but what if perhaps in her situation, that car is the difference between her having roof over her head or being homeless. Just because she might have insurance, maybe her deductible would be too much to handle...

In you mind, at what point should one defend ones personal interests?

And btw...yes I do in fact have not just a gun, but several.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
91. What has your training with guns taught you?
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:07 PM
Aug 2022

Have you ever had any training in the use of a gun for self defense? If you are just expressing an uneducated option, just say so. This is a discussion board and people can express their opinions regardless if they know what they are talking about or not.

radicalleft

(478 posts)
93. Did you notice my avatar?
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 01:02 PM
Aug 2022

Yes, I have in fact had hours upon hours upon hours of training. As a former military police member and a current CPL license holder, I know full well the first option is to stay out of harms way...however, if I see someone messing with my car, my initial reaction is going to be to confront the individual - how they choose to respond after that determines the outcomes that follow.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
95. I think we agree that one purpose of training...
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 03:50 PM
Aug 2022

is to override our initial reaction.

I'm not slamming this woman. I do think we can study the incident, discuss it and learn from it.

I have a CPL too but the requirement to get one here in Michigan isn't high and I feel I'm not adequately trained to carry in public. I don't have the inclination to spend the money and time taking more advanced courses and practicing what I've been taught so I reach the level I ought to be to carry off my property.

My revolver is stowed away as I shattered my shoulder and cannot practice my home defense drills with the (unloaded)gun. I can't do much of anything yet with my new shoulder. I hope by fall I'll have some use of my arm back so I can begin practicing the drills again.

The main reasons I got my CPL is to make it a tad easier to transport the gun to and from the shooting range outside of town and the other reason is do I can legally have in my possession a revolver owned by a brother who is working overseas. I also wanted the training.

I have no issue or disagreement with what you said in your post.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
35. I support self defense also and her right to defend herself, I never said otherwise,
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 03:27 PM
Aug 2022

my whole contention is that this wouldn't have likely happened if the kid or his companions hadn't been able to get a gun so easily.

There's a 13 yo kid dead and a woman who has to live with the consequences of this.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
49. I agree that kids have no reason to have a gun on the streets
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:18 PM
Aug 2022

But doing away with illegal weapons means not just passing laws but also enforcing them. The robber who was shot by the store owner was carrying a weapon banned under California's assault weapon ban, he is facing 8 years just for possessing it, he should get a lot more time for using it in a crime. We all know he won't get anywhere near the maximum though.

 

48656c6c6f20

(7,638 posts)
53. This is a perfect example of the easy availability of firearms.
Thu Aug 4, 2022, 06:48 PM
Aug 2022

In other words, a normal glorious day in GunMurka!

intelpug

(88 posts)
77. 13 year old shot
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 01:20 AM
Aug 2022

So just food for thought, how does anybody suppose this would have played out if it had been a cop instead of this woman who confronted the kid and got a gun pointed at him/her? after all they are supposed to be the highly trained professionals at this sort of stuff, you know. I think,, for some reason,,. it still would have gone down the same anyway

DFW

(54,051 posts)
78. This is the USA for Pete's sake!!!
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 01:37 AM
Aug 2022

If you try to rob someone at gunpoint, the chances of that someone being armed and willing to shoot back are probably greater here than anyplace else, except maybe El Salvador, Honduras or Afghanistan.

If you are going to pull out a gun while robbing somebody, you and anyone with you had better be prepared to get shot, because the person you're robbing can't know if you have a "leave no witnesses" policy for your victims or not.

tavernier

(12,322 posts)
90. The criminals are the parents of those kids.
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 11:03 AM
Aug 2022

My children and grandchildren wouldn’t have, never in 1 million years, thought to do something so insane, and believe me they did some stupid shit, all of them. You can blame drugs and bad peer influence, etc., but if you establish a trusting relationship with your child at a very early age, they will have developed a conscience and moral character long before the age of 13.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,092 posts)
92. Yes, yes, yes,
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 12:56 PM
Aug 2022

IMO, the parents are just as culpable as these kids are for not setting boundaries and enforcing those boundaries.

I don't know what these kids' stories are, so I'm not really in a position to judge their home life, but they should not have been out robbing citizens with a gun that they shouldn't have even been able to get their hands on.

EndlessWire

(6,376 posts)
94. I disagree.
Fri Aug 5, 2022, 01:51 PM
Aug 2022

You just don't know the circumstances of the parents and their/her/his efforts to control that kid. Some kids are not controllable, and some parents do not get any help to shape them up.

The woman did not draw her own weapon until they pointed a gun at her. She had one, but didn't use it until she needed it to defend herself. She had every right to confront them, and we don't know what that car meant to her own circumstances.

Kids think they know everything; apparently, these kids didn't know that pointing a deadly weapon at someone would get them shot. Serious misjudgment! Of course, we all feel bad that such a young boy would get killed, but the woman had the right to defend herself, and she did.

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