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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFar-right website Kiwi Farms offline after Cloudflare drops them following public backlash
https://www.rawstory.com/cloudflare-drops-controversial-far-right-website-kiwi-farms-after-public-backlash-site-is-down-report/Growing public backlash against the Kiwi Farms website has resulted in the website losing a key technological vendor and going offline.
"Reversing course under growing public pressure, major tech security company Cloudflare announced Saturday that it will stop protecting the Kiwi Farms website, best known as a place for stalkers to organize hacks, online campaigns and real-world harassment," The Washington Post reported. "Cloudfare chief executive Matthew Prince, who this past week published a lengthy blog post justifying the companys services defending Kiwi Farms, told The Washington Post he changed his mind not because of the pressure but a surge in credible violent threats stemming from the site."
Prince issued a statement explaining the action the company finally took.
"We have blocked Kiwifarms. Visitors to any of the Kiwifarms sites that use any of Cloudflare's services will see a Cloudflare block page and a link to this post. Kiwifarms may move their sites to other providers and, in doing so, come back online, but we have taken steps to block their content from being accessed through our infrastructure," Prince said. "This is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with. However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before."
snip...
Eugene
(61,592 posts)As Kiwi Farms has felt more threatened, they have reacted by being more threatening, Prince said. We think there is an imminent danger, and the pace at which law enforcement is able to respond to those threats we dont think is fast enough to keep up.
https://wapo.st/3TJll0A
Original WaPo link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/03/cloudflare-drops-kiwifarms/
alwaysinasnit
(5,037 posts)vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)All the users there actually gotten others to commit suicide and are actively stalking a transgender woman. Bunch of no life fuck sticks need to go touch grass
underpants
(182,270 posts)Takket
(21,421 posts)it is unconscionable that these people were allowed to go on for as long as they have been. they are literally driving people to suicide and terrorizing others. they should be hunted down and imprisoned.
oh and BY THE WAY: This is exactly the fucking shit Biden was talking about in his speech!!!!!!!!!! MAGA rethugs terrorizing people just going about their lives. How the media can clutch their pearls at what he said instead of doing the VERY SMALL amount of journalism it takes to draw a line from his speech to SHIT LIKE THIS, is mind blowing.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Link to tweet
For years, there was one site extremist researchers warned me not to cover because publicizing it would be dangerous.
But it's time people know KiwiFarmsand how they're chasing political enemies around the world.
Unrolled
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565797220531814406.html
dalton99a
(81,062 posts)hlthe2b
(101,699 posts)I'm speechless.
czarjak
(11,191 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)No doubt laws have to be passed to allow/enable effective pursuit of these terrorists.
Don't know what's been done so far, but the surge in DVE, domestic violent extremism (as opposed to foreign) and domestic terrorism, has caused a need for amended laws that will facilitate rather than block effectively addressing it. One guess who's been most involved in preventing those laws in the past -- DVEs are overwhelmingly RW.
In any case, these Kiwifarms gangs are RW terrorists with terrorist goals. I hope operating overseas was a mistake.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Guessing laws have to be passed, and staffs and procedures further developed, to allow/enable effective pursuit of these terrorists.
Don't know what's been done so far, but the surge in DVE, domestic violent extremism and terrorism (as opposed to foreign), has exacerbated a need for changing laws to will facilitate rather than block effectively addressing it. One guess who's been most involved in preventing those laws in the past -- DVEs are overwhelmingly RW.
In any case, these Kiwifarms gangs are RW terrorists with terrorist goals. Wouldn't it be nice if operating overseas was a mistake?
dalton99a
(81,062 posts)IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)They're trying to kill people.
They're terrorists.
And it's well past the time for the DOJ to treat them as such.
area51
(11,868 posts)Riiiiight.
It was a business decision weighing the cost of dropping them with the cost of the blowback. Blowback finally won. It will be interesting to see if Kiwi Farms stays gone.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)I don't necessarily agree with his position - but after reading both of the public statements (before and after) - I'm leading toward someone who had a principled position, and then changed it in the face of either greater evidence, or understanding. And, granted - his original position on 'free speech', 'public platform' issues might have been far more libertarian than a lot of us are comfortable with (particularly in this day and age).
But I don't think (IMO) this was a bottom line, profit/loss business decision.
----- ------
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Nor is harassment. Nor are death threats. Nor is encouraging someone to kill themselves.
There was no "principled decision", because Cloudflare's spineless CEO clearly has no principles. They should've taken action before it reached this point.
I'm not giving Cloudflare a single thing besides both middle fingers.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)----- -----
You're not alone. But I'll point out that your post reveals that you harbor a rather constrained view of free speech. Again, not alone - but (to me) a rather troubling, and prevalent, trend among the left, and right.
"Doxing someone is not free speech." ? Okkkkkay.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Are you serious? Are you freaking serious?
So doxxing people, swatting people, stalking people, encouraging them to commit suicide, and making plans to set off bombs in restaurants is just fine? Just good ol' freedom of speech? And some of us speaking out against such criminal speech have a "constrained view of free speech"?
Again: Are you serious?
You know what happens if I go and start posting threats like these Kiwi Farms psychos? I wind up with people in dark suits and shiny badges at my door. But, okay. Fine. Cool. Let's just protect their "free speech", especially since it's just "the others" being terrorized by this community.
I'm glad my views are troubling. Far more troubling than the threats toward people like myself. But maybe if we just all went away, it'd be all better...
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our 'friends'." - Martin Luther King Jr.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)are quite clearly crimes (and thus by definition ..). But you also rather prove my point by including some things (doxing) that are not criminal at all. Do I approve of the practice? I do not. But, by most legal accounting, reprehensible speech, ugly speech, even inflammatory speech (to some degree) - still enjoys protection under free speech. Are there places where lines could and should be draw? Clearly. But just because I find something troubling, reprehensible, or even (to my mind) potentially dangerous - does not draw that line.
So, in answer to your question - yes, I am serious. Quite.
And, if you'll read back through my posts - you'll find that nowhere in them will you find a defense of the content on Kiwi Farms. My comment was on the motivations and motives of CloudFare CEO Prince (and even pointed out that his positions might differ from mine).
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)"Kiwi Farms launched in 2013 and quickly grew into a popular internet forum for online harassment campaigns. At least three suicides have been tied to harassment stemming from the Kiwi Farms community, and many on the forum consider their goal to drive their targets to suicide. Members of the LGBTQ community and women are frequent targets."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/03/cloudflare-drops-kiwifarms/
Three suicides... CEO Prince chose profits and protecting criminals over at least three lives.
Here's a tweet from two days ago. By my count, we're now up to at least four swattings, and a bomb threat - the very bomb threat that caused Prince to grow a set and finally do something.
Link to tweet
But, thank goodness there are no crimes going on here. No. Because it sure feels like the only "crime" here is me with my "constrained views of free speech"...
Link to tweet
Oh. Wait. Wait... What was that fourth charge listed? I'd also like to add that doxxing is a crime in California (Penal Code 653.2). And (PC 646.9) covers direct cyber harassment. Now, I sure can't quote the laws in every state and every country, but there certainly are states and country where harassment and doxxing are crimes.
Yet you want to criticize... me? Not Prince. Not Cloudflare. Not KF. ME. I get the finger pointed at me about "constrained views of free speech" like I'm a fascist bitch or something. Not KF who has caused at least three deaths and want to cause a lot more. Not Cloudflare for turning a blind fucking eye on years of this shit until it reached the point of "Just rang up a couple of lads and asked them to plant bombs..."
Your responses, and the way you've spoken to me, have sure given me the impression that you are more concerned about "free speech" than people's safety and lives. These people are threatening the lives of people like me, and I have to hear about "constrained views of free speech"? How about my goddamned right - and the rights of others like me - to not fucking have our lives threatened?!
The threats made by KF and LibsOfTikTok are as much "free speech" as yelling fire in a crowded room when there is no fire. They have gotten people killed, and are going to get more killed unless someone stops this. I'm sorry if there is "free speech" that needs to be "constrained" in the name of not getting people killed.
If you're troubled by what these cyberterrorists have done, you've done a poor job of expressing it. Because it sure feels like you think I'm the problem here.
And if you think I'm angry... Yeah. I am. Angry at what the hell Cloudflare allowed to happen. Angry at these waste of genetic material who have devoted their lives to ruining other people's. And, frankly, pretty upset at the things you've said to me in this thread.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)And particularly sorry that some of that anger is directed this way. At the same - yes, it's quite clear in our discussion that you do have a more restricted (constrained) view of free speech than I do. It seems we must leave it at that.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I also have a very deep objection to you believing free speech is more important than the lives of trans people who are facing very real threats of violence and death.
Maybe you ought to try checking two things: Reality, and your privilege.
obamanut2012
(25,905 posts)And no, she doesn't have a "constrained view of free speech." That's YOUR belief, not hers.
And, her view of this is correct, and yours is sadly, sadly and distressingly wrong.
And, I am not engaging with you after this post.
Go with God, my child.
vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)We already have enough shit to deal with in our community and this is terrorism plain as day. Fuck their free speech when it actively stalk a trans woman. They are trying to get her killed.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)we have done so with things such as stalking. But currently it is not, and by the same light it is not restricted speech.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)But it's becoming more and more apparent where you stand on this. How much longer until you tell us Kiwi Farms and Cloudflare are the victims and Keffals is the aggressor?
vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)You're fine with us being stalked and killed because of free "hate" speech thanks for playing
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Either their beloved "free speech" is more important than our lives, or our lives just plain don't matter.
Wonder if they'd be digging their heels in on this hill KF was threatening them or someone in their lives? Because I get the feeling they wouldn't be so cool about it then.
vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)End of story
Zeitghost
(3,796 posts)In your opinion?
Eugene
(61,592 posts)Joshua "Null" Moon is spiraling.
crickets
(25,896 posts)WaPo, no paywall: https://archive.ph/moIax
In a post Wednesday, Prince and another executive had written that they saw providing basic security and caching services as infrastructure, like internet connectivity, and should not be held responsible for content without judicial proceedings. They contrasted that with website hosting, which they said should have increased responsibility and discretion.
Prince said Saturday he stands by that reasoning, and he wrote in a new post that dropping Kiwi Farms was a dangerous decision. He added in the interview that it might provoke forum users to escalate even more, and that the forum would likely reappear online with help from Cloudflare competitors.
Splitting hairs about responsibility because the company doesn't want to be bothered with content issues, then admitting it was really about the money that might go to the competition.
🙄
Disgusting.
RainCaster
(10,673 posts)That is the conscience of some of these CEOs.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Ahhh, remember the good ol' days, when that very stable genius Sarah Palin was warning us about Russia, along with saying she could see them from her own back yard? Good times...
Now, of course, MAGA loves Mother Russia, just like their "Daddy" Drumpf does.
Also, according to at least one comment from this article: The breaking point for Gutless Cloudflare was when Kiwi Farms were trying to figure out which restaurant Keffals was planning to eat it and plant bombs there. Yeah. Bombs.
So I guess bombing is too far, but doxxing and stalking and planning to kill one trans woman is okay, Cloudflare? Well, glad we now know where your line is.
Meanwhile, this is how our "American patriots" act. Stalking, doxxing, death threats and plots involving bombs. Gee, remember when everyone was so angry about Muslims and bomb threats and blowing up places? More good times... Because now, according to UltraMAGA, doing so is just fine...
President Biden's speech was long overdue. I hope everyone's listening. And by that, I mean LibsOfTikTok need to be next. And I don't mean just throw them off social media. I mean it's time for these people to wind up behind bars like the terrorists they are.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,021 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(18,815 posts)every move.
How dumb can you be to put dangerous rightwing shit out on social media where everyone can track it? And trace it back to you?
leftyladyfrommo
(18,815 posts)realize they have created a very dangerous monster and are starting to step back.
ultralite001
(891 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)bookmarking this thread