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Mon Aug 19, 2013, 06:46 PM

Need Some Info About CENLAR, A Company That...

my current mortgage is being handed over to. Last week there was a post by ms.smiler regarding problems with mortgages and started doing some research on mine.

Well, strange as it seems, today I got a letter in the mail saying that my mortgage is now going to be turned over to a company named CENLAR, Central Loan Administration & Reporting. I googled it and what I found is that this seems to be BAD NEWS! Almost all the comments were negative and frightening and it seems this is a situation I don't want to be in.

Anyone else having to deal with this? I thought we found a reputable bank when we refinanced, but I guess not. While I hate to go through all the loan process again, I'm seriously thinking that we should try to refinance again! Hate to do it, but what I read about them is very scary.

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Reply Need Some Info About CENLAR, A Company That... (Original post)
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 OP
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #1
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #2
ms.smiler Aug 2013 #3
ChiciB1 Aug 2013 #4
jerseyfresh2014 Jun 2014 #5
ChiciB1 Jun 2014 #6
ChiciB1 Jun 2014 #7
pgr1990 Sep 2014 #10
ChiciB1 Sep 2014 #13
concernedhomeowner Mar 2015 #16
Adam Eve Sep 2014 #8
ms.smiler Sep 2014 #9
pgr1990 Sep 2014 #11
pgr1990 Sep 2014 #12
ms.smiler Sep 2014 #14
ms.smiler Sep 2014 #15
relemaster Mar 2015 #17
ChiciB1 Mar 2015 #18
relemaster Mar 2015 #19

Response to ChiciB1 (Original post)

Mon Aug 19, 2013, 09:14 PM

1. ChiciB1, this reminds me of where I started.

In December 2008, I received a letter informing me that I should start sending my mortgage payments to a company that I knew to be disreputable. It was a red flag to me that something must be wrong with my mortgage and I began checking on my own mortgage loan.

It would be difficult for me to name a good mortgage servicer; there are just those that are more abusive of consumers.

CENLAR now has the servicing rights for your loan. Servicing has nothing to do with ownership of your loan. CENLAR is an approved servicer for Fannie Mae and other GSEís.

There is actually a large percentage of servicing rights being sold off now resulting in many homeowners receiving similar letters naming companies that are unfamiliar to the homeowners. Fellow DU member dixiegrrrrl recently posted as Green Tree I believe now services her mortgage loan. Sheís keeping a close eye on them just as you should carefully monitor your account.

Please watch for any forced placed insurance, strange fees, escrow discrepancies, etc.

Mortgage servicers are debt collectors and you should only communicate with debt collectors in writing. Please donít believe anything said to you on the phone. Please ignore any loan modification offers as only the owner of your loan has the authority to modify the terms of the loan.

You may have found a reputable bank when you refinanced but they all sell off the paper for securitization, even some Credit Unions. The problems with a securitized mortgage are larger than a few companies; it is how the mortgage industry is operating as a whole. Unless it was a private lender, refinancing does nothing to solve the problem.

For now, please just continue with your payments keeping an eye on your account and please continue researching your mortgage loan. As you gather your information, thereís a fabulous Qualified Written Request that I have and you can send to CENLAR and start them off with a likely violation of Federal law.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:45 AM

2. Oh, Thank You So Much!

I didn't get any response to this post and am so glad for your reply. My first thought was to refi with my Credit Union. I didn't want to go through the whole process again.

CENLAR will actually be taking over by 9/1 and WE have to notify our tax collector and insurance companies on our own. When I googled CENLAR I saw a link that had 77 complaints and none of them were good. Running the gamut from not posting checks people sent to them for payment, then requesting a late fee because they said they didn't get payment on time. One comment said they paid them off and had not gotten the lien to their property!

I immediately thought this is BS, but apparently THIS IS A DONE DEAL and I have no control. I was going to call this AM, but will wait. The letter does say that nothing will change about my initial contract. But I don't trust anyone.

And thank you again for your reply and I AM very interested in your Qualified Written Request. I feel anything I can do to stop any shenanigans can't hurt. DID NOT like the comments I saw because I always pay on time and don't need them fooling around and messing up my credit. One of the comments referred to this too. I've never been in danger of foreclosure of any type, but there were comments about that too!

My first thought was to go to my Credit Union, but if they too are doing this I guess I get to play this game along with millions of other people! My cynicism just keeps growing!!

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:34 PM

3. ChiciB1, please understand there is no real incentive for your servicer

to properly handle your account. The incentive is there though to profit greatly if they can foreclosure for whatever reason. They can and will manufacture a supposed default by misapplying payments, or by placing expensive insurance increasing the monthly payment. This is why your statements and account must be carefully monitored.

The QWR I have was written by my attorney and it requests pretty much EVERYTHING to which a homeowner is entitled, most of which is information these companies do not want to disclose. They also donít like putting things in writing as they want the flexibility to rewrite the supposed history of your mortgage loan.

You are correct to distrust those parties involved with your mortgage. You are stuck dealing with a disreputable company and itís in your best interest to research your mortgage, inform yourself, and consider options and formulate a plan of action, in case you experience difficulties. I find that approach much preferable to a state of surprise and lack of preparedness.

I purchased my mortgage in 2006 and a subsequent study determined that 80% of the mortgages sold that year contained fraud. Most of the securitized mortgages contained fraud at origination so given that fraud was rampant in the industry, where is the program to help homeowners determine how much money might be owed to them?

Please let me know when youíve checked your Settlement Sheet, the information from the databases and what youíve found in your land records. You, like any other homeowner should be aware if there is a party who owes you money and you should also be aware if there may be a problem with your Title.

This is not simply a foreclosure fight, it is a homeowner fight. The same forged and fraudulent robosigned documents that are created and used to foreclose on homeowners are also created and used when homeowners refinance or pay off their mortgages. I am curious about the Satisfaction of Mortgage that was filed when you refinanced.

There were millions of homeowners who were wrongfully foreclosed and there are millions of Titles that are clouded while the homeowners dutifully make their mortgage payments. This securitization of mortgages simply doesn't comport with real estate law.

Here is an interview with John OíBrien, Register of Deeds, to give you an idea about the condition of our land records.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 20, 2013, 02:41 PM

4. Okay, Thank You So Much Again!

This is super important I know, and I'm trying to get it all together. I'm not trying to drag my feet, but some family "problems" exist right now. These will be fine, just taking time right now.

BUT, this will be a priority. Tonight I hope I'll be able to dig deeper. Fingers crossed that more doesn't pop up. My sister coming to visit, then making some plans for Labor Day. My kids want to go up to the lake property that was left to my husband and his brother when his mother died. That place IS free and clear, I do have title to it. Whew!

I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off... and my name is Chici (Chickie) how appropriate!!

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 4, 2014, 06:36 AM

5. Cenlar mortgage nightmare

Hello Chici, I am wondering how you made out in this matter?

We just received our first annual escrow report from Cenlar with a shortage of over $1500 to pay upfront, plus an additional $200 monthly tacked on to our future payments AFTER paying the shortage.

We have crunched the numbers, factoring in any raise in our taxes and homeowners insurance, but nothing adds here.
Everyone we speak to has said that doesn't sound "right" and after reading so many complaints online, I am upset and nervous.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanking you in advance!!

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Response to jerseyfresh2014 (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 4, 2014, 01:35 PM

6. I've Been Watching My Statements Closely Since They

took over our loan. Before I got my first bill I wrote them a long letter telling them what I had found on the internet about them. I asked for a reply and to address my suspicions. I told them that I expected a statement every month and that I would be watching very closely for ANY discrepancies, and if I found any I would not hesitate in contacting any and all authorities I felt I needed. In the same letter I told them I requested and obtained a copy of our deed showing it was filed correctly and legal at the time we refinanced it before they took over. They initially asked me to have my payments automatically withdrawn and I refused telling them why. Since that time I do call them on a regular basis and ask them when they received my check and what was applied to principal and interest. I tell them I'm keeping a copy of what they say over the phone so I can compare them with my monthly statements.

This year my payment actually went down, but since you've contacted me I will go back and give my statements a closer look. I'm trying to be super vigilant but things may have slipped by me. Our homeowners insurance is with Allstate and they broker with different insurance companies because here in FL we don't have a large pool of carriers since Hurricane Andrew some time ago. As long time customers we get discounts and other than our vehicles different companies are used.

Since we have a mortgage we're required to carry certain insurances. We live close to the Gulf of Mexico so it's deemed a flood area so flood is required. Then Fl has hurricanes (did you know LOL) don't think required, BUT we have it. Our homeowners only covers specific things, NOT wind & hail, so another policy for that. THEN Citizens Insurance is the state run insurance here and they have a stranglehold on so many mortgages and you HAVE to use them if you have an older home and an extensive list of other requirements. I'm telling you about insurance because we've had to keep a close eye on this too. I'm on a first name basis with my agent and he knows about my concerns. Nothing is foolproof, but so far he's helped me save money by giving me tips. And I call him when I hear about something to see if we can benefit from it and I have gotten reductions in the past.

Our loan is a fixed rate loan for 15 yrs. and the only thing that should change the payment is the insurance fluctuations. Right now I haven't seen any red flags and no extra charges. I don't think they like me much, but I did let them know up front that I didn't trust them and saw no reason that I should. Don't know if this has ANYTHING to do with it, but I'm watching.

I know different states have different insurance policy practices, don't think NJ is any better than FL either. Do you think it's your insurance that's costing more or is CENLAR charging you for something extra?

I'm going to research my statements again to see if I see anything fishy. Let me know if there's something I should be looking for and I appreciate you contacting me.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 4, 2014, 01:39 PM

7. Sorry, I Re-Read Your Post...

you did say it's not your insurance. Still if you figure out what's up please let me know. Thanks again.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:55 PM

10. Question for ChiciB1

I just received a letter that my loan is being transferred to Cenlar so like you I got on the internet and googled about them and saw a lot of complaints. I came across this thread and was wondering if you ever received a response back from them on your letter?

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Response to pgr1990 (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:13 PM

13. Not Officially & I Sent Them Several Very Specifically

worded letters. I was extremely concerned about them, but when I got my first payment statement I sent my payment in. Then I called them to see if and when they got it. The only problem I've had with them so far is posting payments later than I think they should be. I DO call them every single month, let them know who I am and my concerns. If it's a new person I ask if they are aware of the letters I sent from the time I heard they were going to handle my account, if not I tell them.

Several have asked me if I wanted to set up automated payments and I've told them I will NEVER do it that. Then of course tell them again that I still don't trust them. I sent my payment in last month on 8/26 and kept checking my bank statement, no withdrawal until 9/9! I live in FL, it goes to Newark, NJ and I told them what I thought! They said it was withdrawn late because of the holiday, told them it was hogwash, way too much time in between. They guy told me I wouldn't be late until 9/16 and then I really got upset. Gist of conversation was that if I send my payment in at least days 7 or so days BEFORE due date there's no way I was believing him. More said, but that's it in a nutshell.

Other than that I've had no late fees, I get my statements in plenty of time to pay... BUT, I do call them every single month!! Not sure how it would be if I didn't do what I'm doing. And my initial letters to them were very specific about what I found on the internet and all the comments I read. Let them know I didn't trust them and I WOULD watch them like a hawk.

Hope this helps some.

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Response to pgr1990 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 5, 2015, 04:33 PM

16. Question for pgr1990 :)

So, I too just received a notice that my mortgage was sold to Cenlar. Can you tell me how things are going for you?

I am so upset after reading all of these horrible experiences online! I was on track to pay my house off in exactly two years by paying A LOT each month towards principle but now I'm afraid they aren't going to post my payments correctly.

How do you make your monthly payments? Are you able to do it online? If so, is there a fee?

Sorry for all of the questions but I keep trying to call Cenlar and they are saying that I'm not in "their system" yet....

So freaking scared right now!

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:15 PM

8. QWR

Hello Ms.Smiler, may I request a copy of your Qualified Written Request?

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Response to Adam Eve (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 14, 2014, 01:13 PM

9. Welcome to DU, Adam Eve.

I'm pleased to say that law recently changed and homeowners are permitted to request even more information in a Qualified Written Request. It does though I think render my QWR a bit obsolete now. I'll contact my attorney this week and request his updated QWR. I'd be delighted to provide you with a copy.

It's good to check your Settlement Sheet for an amount identified as Yield Spread Premium.

It's sad to say but homeowners actually need to check their local land records, (most are online) to confirm that the same mortgage they read and signed is the same as was filed. Then check to see if any Assignments of Mortgage have been filed.

You can use the first 7 digits of your MERS MIN here: http://www.mersinc.org/about-us/member-search to identify the party that entered your loan in the MERS system. Does that party appear in your land records? It's also good to know if your state is a must record state like Pennsylvania.

The MERS lookup tool, use the entire MERS MIN: https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/index.jsp

The servicer will be revealed and with additional information entered, the Investor (owner) may be revealed.

Fannie Mae lookup tool: https://knowyouroptions.com/loanlookup

Freddie Mac lookup tool: https://ww3.freddiemac.com/loanlookup/?intcmp=AHKYLL

Does Fannie or Freddie own your loan? Do they appear in your land records?

Please excuse me if you have already conducted the above searches and reviews.

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 04:23 PM

11. ms.smiler

Have you been able to contact your attorney and can you share the QWR? I just received a letter that Cenlar will be servicing my loan effective 10/1. I googled them and ran across a lot of complaints so now I'm very concerned. Should I assume there is a problem with my loan if it's transferring to them? I want to research it but not sure where to start exactly to obtain the land records. Do you know where I obtain the 7 digit MERS MIN from? What are Assignments of Mortgage? My loan is currently owned by Fannie Mae... Sorry for all the questions but I've never been in this situation before

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Response to ms.smiler (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 05:07 PM

12. ms.smiler

I did some research and found my local land records online and all looked ok then learned that the servicing is transferring to Cenlar but the loan has not been sold so no Assignment of Mortgage. Basically, I'm told the mortgage company sub contracts or sub services with Cenlar. Should I believe them? I'm still concerned about all the reviews and want to monitor them closely.

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Response to pgr1990 (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:31 PM

14. pgr1990, I contacted my attorneyís office and I hope to have his updated QWR this week.

There is much servicing moving to smaller, less well known companies like Cenlar, Green Tree and Seterus because the large servicers like Ocwen & Nationstar are under investigation. Itís as though these companies can commit fraud for only so long until it catches up to them.

Yes, you need to keep a close watch over your mortgage account. Servicers will often manufacture a supposed default as an excuse to foreclose. Please communicate with them only in writing. Donít believe anything said to you on the phone.

Check the first page of your mortgage document, and on the left you should find a long number prefaced by MIN:

The first 7 digits is the party who entered your loan in MERS and the entire number in their look up tool will reveal your servicer and likely the Investor, (owner).

I assume you checked the Fannie Mae look up tool and learned that Fannie owns your loan. Iím unsurprised as Fannie now holds about 85% of mortgages.

Your Promissory Note is the valuable piece of paper wherein you promise to repay a particular amount. The party that owns your Note should be the same party with the lien (mortgage) filed on your property to secure the debt.

Like me, you have a securitized mortgage loan which is greatly different from a traditional mortgage which we all understand.

It would be good for you to know if you are in a must record state like Pennsylvania. Every time the Note moves from one party to another, the land records must be updated with an Assignment of Mortgage. In that way the party that owns the Note has the lien upon property to keep the debt secured.

In PA if the Assignment is not filed within 6 months of the conveyance of the Note, the mortgage becomes ďfraudulent and void.Ē All that lawfully remains is an amount of unsecured debt.

Such laws were passed to protect lenders but that went out the window when banksters started creating securities with mortgage loans.

Use your MERS MIN in the links in my post #9 and check your Settlement Sheet. Toward the top, is there an amount of money identified as Yield Spread Premium?

Itís good you are doing basic checking on your mortgage loan. Many homeowners only discover problems in foreclosure or years later or donít even realize yet that their chain of Title is broken.

Please donít be sorry for all the questions. Iíve researched mortgage/foreclosure/securities fraud hours per day daily for the past 6 years. I filed a Quiet Title against my loan originator, MERS and Nationstar and expect to go to trial at the end of this year. Iím delighted if something Iíve learned can be helpful to another homeowner.

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Response to pgr1990 (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 19, 2014, 05:05 PM

15. pgr1990, here is the QWR




Servicers Name Here
Servicers Address Here
City, State Zip Code

RE: Loan #:
Property Address:

Dear Sir or Madam:

We are writing to you to dispute the amount you claim is owed according to the monthly billing statement and because we are uncertain as to who the current holder and owner of the original note and deed of trust is due to the recent issues concerning people signing transfer documents without knowledge or authority to do so, resulting in foreclosure moratoriums in many instances. We request that you send us information about the fees, costs, and escrow accounting on our loan as well as information concerning the holder and owner of this mortgage loan. This is a "qualified written request" pursuant to the Real Estate Settlement and Procedures Act (section 2605(e) ).

We request the following information:

1. A complete payment history which lists the dates and amounts of all the payments we have made on the loan to date, and shows how each payment was applied or credited (whether to principal, interest, escrow, suspense, or some other treatment);

2. A breakdown of the amount of claimed arrears or delinquencies on the account, including an itemization of all fees and charges you claim are currently due;

3. The payment dates, purpose of payment, and recipient of any and all foreclosure fees and costs, if applicable that have been charged to the account;

4. The payment dates, purpose of payment, and recipient of all escrow items charged to the account;

5. A copy of any annual escrow statements, and notices of a shortage, deficiency, or surplus, sent within the last three years;

6. The current balance in any suspense account and the reason why such funds were deposited in the account;

7. The name and address of the owner of the promissory note secured by the deed of trust in the mortgage loan referenced above;

8. The name and address of the entity that is legally the "holder" of the promissory note secured by the deed of trust in the mortgage loan referenced above. If your answer is the same as your answer to #7 above, you may simply reply "same as #7";

9. The names of all entities to which the promissory note referenced above has been sold or otherwise transferred at any time, and the dates that each sale or transfer of the note occurred;

10. A copy of the note referenced above showing all endorsements that have occurred, together with any allonge that exists to the note;

11. The names of all entities to which this mortgage or deed of trust has been assigned, and the dates that each assignment occurred. If any assignment in blank has occurred, include it in the list of dates with the notation "In Blank" in place of the name of an entity;

12. A copy of each of the assignments reflecting each assignment referenced in #11, above;

13. A description of all loss mitigation and foreclosure avoidance steps taken in regard to this mortgage loan, including all calculations concerning debt-to-income and net-present-value determinations and all documents regarding loss mitigation and foreclosure avoidance steps taken;

14. All initial and final loan documents both signed and unsigned including, but not limited to, the 1003, GFE, TIL, Appraisal, Mortgage Broker Fee Agreement (if applicable), etc.

Please send these requested documents to: <<Your name and address here>>

Thank you for acknowledging and answering this request as required by the Real estate Settlement and Procedures Act (section 2605(e) ).



This link, section 2605, will be helpful - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/chapter-27

Your servicer may violate Federal law and not acknowledge or answer your QWR or they may send a response. Please keep everything that may be sent to you for future possible use.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Original post)

Tue Mar 17, 2015, 06:27 PM

17. GA dogs

I just closed on a refi to get away from cenlar. The payment date is tomorrow. When I called them a rude woman with an India accent quoted me a payout only 68 dollars higher than what quicken loans is going to send them tomorrow. I have also made a payment since then so their should be an over payment. I am worried that they will use the 68 dollar shortage as an excuse not to take the payment. Should I be concerned?

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Response to relemaster (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 17, 2015, 07:49 PM

18. Up Until Last Week I've Had No Problems With Them, However

have noticed they won't call me back anymore. Just got my new payment info for the next year and was told my escrow was $336.00 short. I just sent the shortage, but just got my statement and it DOES NOT show they received my check. I did call them Monday and they said they will call back, but they haven't.

I'm going to call from a different phone number and see what happens. I did this once before and it worked. I'm trying to sell 5 acres of land we own and as soon as I do, they are getting paid off. Just recently have I had any situation with them, but sure don't trust them. Seems like there's nothing you can do when you talk to them one on one, but the people you're going to refi with should be able to stand up for you. If you show them what you paid perhaps they'll be more affective.

I HATE them and think they're crooks, but I'm no lawyer. I do check everything closely every single month and can't wait to be rid of them. Sorry I can't help more. As you can see from posts here, others have their issues too and very troubling.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Original post)

Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:54 PM

19. Rude cenlar overseas woman

I'll let this site know if it went ok or not.

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