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Ninga

(8,266 posts)
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:23 AM Oct 2013

I am very upset and angry that the smart people didn't prepare for the Internet logjam

that signing up for health insurance would cause.

It is inexcusable because it gives the anti-Obamacare naysayers one more talking point..

The administration had 3 years to prepare for Oct. 1st - they had 3 years to figure out how to allow for huge numbers to sign up and didn't...

Oh brother.

I guess my rant is because I am depressed. Depressed because I am having a hard time processing how much hate there really is in this country.

I just feel like we need something big -one thing -any thing ...that can stand as good news.

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am very upset and angry that the smart people didn't prepare for the Internet logjam (Original Post) Ninga Oct 2013 OP
logjam frog64 Oct 2013 #1
You have 180 days to sign up, its day 3. Justice Oct 2013 #2
Reasoned and rational thought...still doesn't explain the lack of preparedness KNOWING Ninga Oct 2013 #6
maybe the WH didn't think it would be THIS popular... Whisp Oct 2013 #49
As a technical person.. sendero Oct 2013 #3
+1. nt bemildred Oct 2013 #4
Oh well then people should have been told the system would continually crash....? Ninga Oct 2013 #11
Oh ffs! HappyMe Oct 2013 #15
No people should have been told.. sendero Oct 2013 #16
Thank you for understanding my upset, and not thinking less of me because I expressed it. Ninga Oct 2013 #18
Believe me.. sendero Oct 2013 #26
Anyone who tries to file their taxes online should expect the logjam ... Myrina Oct 2013 #41
Doesn't the site tell you that there's heavy traffic and to try again later? Violet_Crumble Oct 2013 #17
Aren't there any commercial services that can be contracted on a temporary basis? dkf Oct 2013 #20
They ARE using a distributed content distribution system by Akamai Trekologer Oct 2013 #29
Exactly what kind of mechanism would be the bottleneck? dkf Oct 2013 #32
Based on some of the problems people have been reporting here Trekologer Oct 2013 #35
But aren't they going to put all our records online? How can they possibly manage that... dkf Oct 2013 #39
The two are not an equal comparison Trekologer Oct 2013 #47
Yes they aren't equal, this is the easier task. dkf Oct 2013 #48
I agree. They probably stress-tested in the past few months, TxDemChem Oct 2013 #24
Nine women can't make a baby in one month. X_Digger Oct 2013 #38
With cloud computing technology you could scale up and scale down very easily. DCBob Oct 2013 #45
ofercrissake lamp_shade Oct 2013 #5
Indeed alcibiades_mystery Oct 2013 #10
Yep! DonViejo Oct 2013 #25
There is plenty of time to sign up. HappyMe Oct 2013 #7
Well then be mad at EarlG and the Admins... and any other website that get's slammed with traffic. trumad Oct 2013 #8
But they do try to anticipate and shut down certain features and they tell us what's up. dkf Oct 2013 #23
If you have ever rolled out an electronic system you would understand liberal N proud Oct 2013 #9
OK...I just worry. Ninga Oct 2013 #12
Coverage starts January 1st. MelungeonWoman Oct 2013 #13
Grand Theft Auto experienced server issues this week.... Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2013 #14
Urgh, the Sim City launch brings back bad bad memories... Violet_Crumble Oct 2013 #19
Valve Software has the largest digital retail and gaming service in the world. Hayabusa Oct 2013 #22
...and my son was PISSED... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #36
Mine too (although I sort of enjoyed it) (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2013 #40
They're smart, not omnipotent. tanyev Oct 2013 #21
It is frustrating, first days are over busy. I'm waiting untill next week when the servers calm down Sunlei Oct 2013 #27
How about the President warning people? (Because he did.) IdaBriggs Oct 2013 #28
Well, Ticketmaster can't even prevent this type of thing, and they have way more $$ ehrnst Oct 2013 #30
Succinctly put. Orsino Oct 2013 #33
Hackers blamed for New York's Obamacare site breakdown baldguy Oct 2013 #31
So sick of this being made into an issue Sivart Oct 2013 #34
Im an IT guy and this astonishes me also. DCBob Oct 2013 #37
Bear in mind... Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2013 #42
To be fair, it doesn't "just spin" ... it parks you in a queue ... Myrina Oct 2013 #44
I understand it's frustrating. Sissyk Oct 2013 #43
Have you ever visited DU on election night? bullwinkle428 Oct 2013 #46
Are you personally trying to sign up? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #50
An old Ma Bell adage: you don't design a communication system for Mother's Day. AlinPA Oct 2013 #51
I am going to save upset and angry until last day before enrollment ends and I still can't get in. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #52
You have plenty of time to enroll. bigwillq Oct 2013 #53
I guess you forgot that healthcare.gov is probably being DDOS'ed like crazy.... steve2470 Oct 2013 #54

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
6. Reasoned and rational thought...still doesn't explain the lack of preparedness KNOWING
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:43 AM
Oct 2013

that millions of anxious folks would want to sign up on day one.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
49. maybe the WH didn't think it would be THIS popular...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:59 PM
Oct 2013

on release.

After all it's been years that Obamacare has been spouted as the worst thing next to Armageddon and the media sure didn't help straighten that out - as Fuck Chodd said it's 'not my job' to challenge Republican lies...

or it's like the Diablo 3 release - great expectations make for not so great server performance

sendero

(28,552 posts)
3. As a technical person..
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:39 AM
Oct 2013

.. let me tell you that it would not be as easy as you probably think. Some real web-server experts probably could chime in and explain better, but the gist of the story is this.

Given enough traffic, is approaches being impossible to handle it all. You can add more servers and routers and hardware in general, but not every aspect of the implementation is completely scalable, meaning that at some point just adding equipment doesn't add that much capacity.

And if you did, you'd spend millions of dollars for equipment that would only be needed for the initial crush.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
11. Oh well then people should have been told the system would continually crash....?
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:50 AM
Oct 2013

I do not dispute your knowledge - but somehow I just cannot picture the brain trust sitting around the table talking about the hot mess signing up would cause so give folks 180 days...

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
15. Oh ffs!
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:58 AM
Oct 2013

I can't imagine the 'brain trust' people that think that extremely heavy traffic would not mess things up. Do you seriously think that giving people less than 180 days to sign up is brilliant?

I'm wondering if it isn't some haters also throwing a wrench into the works.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
16. No people should have been told..
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:59 AM
Oct 2013

... ( and I think they were to be fair ) that the system would not be able to handle the initial inrush and that planning to sign up the day the exchange opened would be an unrealistic goal.

I understand and sympathize with your frustration. I'm thinking that if you can be patient a few days this will wash out and you will have plenty of time to get enrolled in a plan before the deadline.

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
18. Thank you for understanding my upset, and not thinking less of me because I expressed it.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:02 AM
Oct 2013

It seems to me that folks do not understand (or don't want to understand) how anxious people get when important functions don't work.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
41. Anyone who tries to file their taxes online should expect the logjam ...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:25 AM
Oct 2013

Hell, anyone who has seen the lines at the I-store prior to a new release should have expected similar problems with the ACA online exchange.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
17. Doesn't the site tell you that there's heavy traffic and to try again later?
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:00 AM
Oct 2013

I dunno. Some common sense has to come into play here. You've got 180 days to register or whatever you do. If there's heavy traffic, you go away and try again in a few days when the initial rush has died down. What the person said who explained it to you is correct. I don't have all the technical knowledge, but I have worked doing webby stuff on a site that has a real spike in traffic for a period of time each year. You can bring on more servers to try to cope with the load, you can test it all as much as possible beforehand, but the reality is that any website that gets a massive amount of traffic over a short period of time is going to end up with its servers being overloaded. I'd also question the cost of bringing on a whole lot more servers (which wouldn't do much to drastically help with the load) for a short period of time, knowing that the peak period will be over in a few days or a week and that spike will probably never happen again.

So my non-technical input is the surefire way to ensure that you don't encounter problems is to have some patience and try again in a few days...

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
20. Aren't there any commercial services that can be contracted on a temporary basis?
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:03 AM
Oct 2013

Can't they contract to Amazon perhaps?

Trekologer

(994 posts)
29. They ARE using a distributed content distribution system by Akamai
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:26 AM
Oct 2013

The likely issue is that there is a backend bottleneck that can't be solved simply by throwing more hardware at it. And even if it could, there is a point of diminishing returns. Why spend an extra $10 million plus up front (plus additional recurring costs) simply to handle the opening days' crush?

Trekologer

(994 posts)
35. Based on some of the problems people have been reporting here
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:57 AM
Oct 2013

Specifically some parts of the pages not having data populated in them and saved input not getting saved, I'd guess it was a database/data store. That's one of, if not the, hardest parts to solve. For a database to be useful, you need to be able to read and write data concurrently, sometimes the same data. You can improve some of the reads by caching commonly-read data but you also have to solve issues of updating that data and making sure it is in sync (for something like the healthcare.gov site, you absolutely don't want to be displaying stale data).

A common database in enterprise applications is Oracle. Oracle is a beast in many ways (some good, some bad, some meh). If your Oracle database is properly tuned (something you might not be able to do unless you analyze real traffic for a while) and still run into performance issues, you're likely left to throw more hardware at the problem (buy more servers). A high performance server for an Oracle database can be very, very expensive (we're talking sometimes at least $100,000/unit for the hardware alone, not to mention the software). Consider that you might not need those after a week or so. Does it make sense to buy it?

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
39. But aren't they going to put all our records online? How can they possibly manage that...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:23 AM
Oct 2013

If they can't even manage a percentage of the uninsured?

Trekologer

(994 posts)
47. The two are not an equal comparison
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:54 PM
Oct 2013

First, you aren't going to have thousands of concurrent reads of the same data with digital health records. Second, using techniques such as sharding/federation, the health record data can be distributed where that might not be possible with the signup website. Third, retrieving health records isn't as sensitive as generating a webpage to display signup options/calculation results/etc. Finally, you often cannot predict how your application traffic will look like until you open it to the public. Therefore, it is difficult to know what performance issues will occur until they occur.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
24. I agree. They probably stress-tested in the past few months,
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:06 AM
Oct 2013

but I don't know of any way they could stress test such a large amount of traffic without going live.

While I am curious to see the sites, I will not visit because I have no need yet and I don't want to add any unnecessary traffic. I suspect there may be others who visited the sites anyway AND others with nefarious plans to crash them.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
38. Nine women can't make a baby in one month.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:17 AM
Oct 2013

That's a quote I often use when some exec suggests throwing more resources at a project to make it go faster.

But it also applies here.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
45. With cloud computing technology you could scale up and scale down very easily.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:31 AM
Oct 2013

Im an IT systems guy and IMO its a very poor design.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
7. There is plenty of time to sign up.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:44 AM
Oct 2013

It isn't as if there is a 24hr time frame to sign up.

We have the ACA as the big good news.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
8. Well then be mad at EarlG and the Admins... and any other website that get's slammed with traffic.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:46 AM
Oct 2013

When a site get's slammed all kinds of shit happens.

I fully expected the site to have problems on the first day.

liberal N proud

(60,298 posts)
9. If you have ever rolled out an electronic system you would understand
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:48 AM
Oct 2013

That the first few days and even weeks can be filled with system glitches and slowness. There is not amount of testing that will eliminate this.

In this case, testing could not account for the sheer numbers of people who would hit the site so early in the roll-out. As supporters of the ACA, we should be pleased that so many are swarming to the sites to sign up. This means that all the propaganda against the program is failing. People want health care.

As a systems administrator, my advice is to hang in there, keep trying. You will succeed. Don't let the glitches turn you away from what you deserve.

MelungeonWoman

(502 posts)
13. Coverage starts January 1st.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:53 AM
Oct 2013

Not only do I consider that exceptionally good news in and of itself, I've also found it to be a comforting thought to those who are struggling with signing up.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
14. Grand Theft Auto experienced server issues this week....
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:54 AM
Oct 2013

As did EA Games with their Sim City launch.

AND THIS IS THEIR BUSINESS

If the government software was a little glitchy on the roll-out, just chill.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
19. Urgh, the Sim City launch brings back bad bad memories...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:03 AM
Oct 2013

What was even worse was after they brought on more servers and I could finally get on, the game was crap, the grids too small to do much, and not nearly as good as Sim City 4, which I've gone back to coz I like playing it on my own and not storing my city on some server...

Hayabusa

(2,135 posts)
22. Valve Software has the largest digital retail and gaming service in the world.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:05 AM
Oct 2013

Everyday, more than 4 million people are logged on to their services, at least half of them actually playing games. During their annual Summer Sale this year, around 10 AM Pacific, when they update their site, the servers were put on such a heavy load that the site crashed.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
27. It is frustrating, first days are over busy. I'm waiting untill next week when the servers calm down
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:12 AM
Oct 2013

Here's something beautiful to do online in the meantime

http://americanart.si.edu/collections/highlights/

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
28. How about the President warning people? (Because he did.)
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:14 AM
Oct 2013
NPR Interview, October 1, 2013

http://www.npr.org/2013/10/01/227916696/transcript-and-audio-npr-interview-with-president-obama

NPR: Are you prepared for significant glitches as health care exchanges go up for business in the coming days and months?

OBAMA: Absolutely. Absolutely. Keep in mind that the way this is going to work — and for everybody who's listening, if you don't have health insurance, if you got family members who don't have health insurance, starting tomorrow you'll be able to go on the website healthcare.gov. It'll direct you to your respective states, where you can look and see exactly what plans are available, how much they cost, whether you're available for subsidies or not, what your bottom line is, and you can choose what's best for you.

But there will be a six-month enrollment period. In the first week, first month, first three months, I would suspect that there will be glitches. This is 50 states, a lot of people signing up for something. And there are going to be problems. And I guarantee you, there will be problems because we've got precedent. When Massachusetts, just one state, set this up, it took quite a long time. It took several months before everything was smoothed out. Of course, the same was true with Medicare and Social Security and every other social program that we've set up, the Children's Health Insurance Program.

But what we're confident about is that people will be able to take a look and find out whether this is something that is going to be good for their families. They don't have to take my word for it. They don't have to take the word of some of these groups that have been running ads saying Obamacare is a disaster. Discount all the political talk, go to the website healthcare.gov directly, and see whether or not this is something that's good for you.

And I am very confident that despite some glitches — right, there may be some websites that, you know, crash early; there may be some call centers where it's taking a little bit too long — that despite all that, the basic prices that are going to be available to people and the choices that are going to be available to people provide us for the first time the possibility, the prospect that any American out there who does not currently have health insurance can get high-quality health insurance.

That's setting aside all of the consumer protections and benefits that are currently provided by the Affordable Care Act that a lot of people don't know they're getting from, quote-unquote, Obamacare. So if your kid is getting health insurance and staying on your plan until the age of 26, that's because of Obamacare. If — if the insurance companies are providing you free preventive care right now on your insurance plan, that's because of Obamacare. If you are getting a rebate because insurance companies weren't spending enough money on care and too much money on administrative costs, that's because of Obamacare. Seniors who are getting discounts on their prescription drugs, they're getting it right now because of what we're doing. And we're certainly not going to repeal benefits that right now a lot of people are enjoying and appreciating, even if they don't know that Obamacare is a — the — the responsible party for making sure they've got those protections.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
30. Well, Ticketmaster can't even prevent this type of thing, and they have way more $$
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:31 AM
Oct 2013

to spend on preventing this.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
33. Succinctly put.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:47 AM
Oct 2013

We're lucky that the various web sites have been budgeted at all. If they can eventually handle the traffic, registration can be more or less complete when coverage begins next year.

And voters are being registered, too!

 

Sivart

(325 posts)
34. So sick of this being made into an issue
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:56 AM
Oct 2013

Every online service or website that gets hyped and hyped and hyped and hyped deals with this issue.

You build an infrastructure for your system to accomodate a certain amount of traffic.

Then weeks,. months, years, before launch, you start hyping it up.

You create so much buzz that when launch day comes, its everyone and their mother trying to get on at the same time all day long those first couple of days that causes the issues.

If you are an online gamer, you know exactly what I mean.

Within a few days the buzz dies down and things are fine.

Anyone here try to get onto GTA V online Tuesday? I did. I couldnt get on. No big deal. This is par for the course with over hyped launch dates.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
37. Im an IT guy and this astonishes me also.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:13 AM
Oct 2013

There are ways to deal with high volume and it doesnt have to cost alot of money. They could have a used replicated servers that would bounce the user to an alternate server once one site is overloaded. Or just simply provide a user with a message "Sorry the site is unavailable.. please try again later." .. instead of just sitting there spinning. Really poor design.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
42. Bear in mind...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:26 AM
Oct 2013

That many of the IT people who probably could be creating fixes are....um....furloughed right now.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
44. To be fair, it doesn't "just spin" ... it parks you in a queue ...
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:30 AM
Oct 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3769293


See my post/screen grab from yesterday.
After an hour it did redirect me to register but my glitch came when I didn't hit the link to validate my email address 'fast enough' and it kicked me out. The 'fast enough' was < 2 minutes and it was primarily because the link was spinning, deep in thought.


Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
43. I understand it's frustrating.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:29 AM
Oct 2013

However, I think that is part of the reason everyone has three months to complete.

With anything new, you will have those log jams.

I'm helping people in my area get signed up. So far, we have done nothing except get names and personal information together, and set up a time and place to assist them over the next two months.

This is good news, friend! It's just good news that doesn't go into effect until January 1.

I'm sorry you are depressed and hope you feel better soon, Ninga!

bullwinkle428

(20,626 posts)
46. Have you ever visited DU on election night?
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:31 AM
Oct 2013

DU has a great staff when it comes to managing technical issues, but there's only so much they can do when there's a ridiculous amount of traffic on the site.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
50. Are you personally trying to sign up?
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:15 PM
Oct 2013

Between the people trying to sign up, the lookiee-lous and the DOS attacks, it's completely unsurprising that the first day was a logjam.

By the end of October, millions will have successfully enrolled.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
52. I am going to save upset and angry until last day before enrollment ends and I still can't get in.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:16 PM
Oct 2013

Even though it would be awesome to access, it's not the end of the world.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
53. You have plenty of time to enroll.
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
Oct 2013

The reason for the "logjam" is because so many people are trying to access the site to get insured.

That is a good thing.

steve2470

(37,456 posts)
54. I guess you forgot that healthcare.gov is probably being DDOS'ed like crazy....
Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:17 PM
Oct 2013

as well and the NY exchange and the other ones ?

Everyone else said it well, too.

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