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gollygee

(22,336 posts)
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 01:46 PM Nov 2013

Obamacare horror story turns out to be Obamacare success story

What's worse than finding out your current insurance is no longer available? Finding out you were paying to not be insured.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/11/obamacare-horror-story-turns-out-to-be-obamacare-success-story.html

As we try to judge the short-term winners and losers from the Affordable Care Act, you can’t deny that it’s terrible to find out that your insurance plan has been cancelled. It happened all the time before Obamacare when it was a much worse fate, as there was a chance that no insurance might cover you again because of a pre-existing condition.

Still getting that cancellation letter can be disturbing. But what should be more even disturbing is discovering the insurance you were paying for is junk.

This week Diane Barrette was briefly the poster woman for the estimated 3% of America in the private insurance market who will lose their insurance and pay more to get coverage that meets the new minimum standards laid out by the ACA.

It turns out that she was paying $56 a month for a plan that covered — according to Yiddish experts — bubkis.

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Obamacare horror story turns out to be Obamacare success story (Original Post) gollygee Nov 2013 OP
kick gollygee Nov 2013 #1
I believe it's a safe bet Cirque du So-What Nov 2013 #2
AND your crooked insurance company sold it to you AFTER ACA too effect in 2010 KentuckyWoman Nov 2013 #4
allowed to be grandfathered, not required IronLionZion Nov 2013 #18
exactly KentuckyWoman Nov 2013 #24
Diane Burrette is the poster child for poutrage. KentuckyWoman Nov 2013 #3
+1 SunSeeker Nov 2013 #13
ACA supporters benefit from debunked stories, like this. JNinWB Nov 2013 #5
"Obamacare penalty"? Am I correct that paying the penalty also automatically subscribes you brewens Nov 2013 #6
I think the penalty is just a penalty -- nothing more. Buns_of_Fire Nov 2013 #7
Paying the tax penalty does not get you insurance Recursion Nov 2013 #10
I did go and find that explanation on the ACA web site and it wouldn't make sense, brewens Nov 2013 #16
The penalty gets you nothing. Uncle Sam is not going to buy a plan for you. IronLionZion Nov 2013 #17
There is no possibility of jail for not paying the penalty Orangepeel Nov 2013 #19
That's debatable since it was declared a tax IronLionZion Nov 2013 #20
It is not up to the IRS to handle it how they want Orangepeel Nov 2013 #21
That's interesting. I learned something new today. IronLionZion Nov 2013 #22
That's useful information for anyone determined to not take part in the ACA brewens Nov 2013 #23
K&R DeSwiss Nov 2013 #8
K&R n/t NealK Nov 2013 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #11
The government already has your personal info. You haven't lost anything. SunSeeker Nov 2013 #12
yeah Fox news is very concerned about that this week too! bettyellen Nov 2013 #15
K & R Scurrilous Nov 2013 #14

Cirque du So-What

(25,812 posts)
2. I believe it's a safe bet
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:05 PM
Nov 2013

that if you get a cancellation notice, your insurance wasn't worth having in the first place.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
4. AND your crooked insurance company sold it to you AFTER ACA too effect in 2010
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:07 PM
Nov 2013

Anything sold before ACA became law is grandfathered in.

IronLionZion

(45,261 posts)
18. allowed to be grandfathered, not required
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 09:40 AM
Nov 2013

so if the insurance company makes a business decisions to cancel cheap policies so they can try to sell you more expensive ones, Republicans will encourage them to blame Obama.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
3. Diane Burrette is the poster child for poutrage.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:06 PM
Nov 2013

From the article (which is pretty good BTW)

But shouldn’t she be able to pay $56 for nothing it she wants to! This is America where we believe in the sanctity of empty calories!

Sure, she can pay less for that under the ACA! Her penalty for not getting insurance would be $25 a month. In three years, it will be as much as $58 a month, which is about what her plan would be by then given inflation.

But here’s a spoiler: She’s going to get sick eventually.

Maybe she’d make it Medicare age before that happens, then we as taxpayers would cover most of it. Or maybe it would happen next year. Maybe she’d delay treatment when she discovered the costs. Or maybe she’d go broke and the taxpayers would end up covering the difference.

JNinWB

(250 posts)
5. ACA supporters benefit from debunked stories, like this.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:34 PM
Nov 2013

The Government shutdown, driving the Global economy to the brink of default, Congressional hearings, Ted Cruz, health ins. cancellation stories---all of these scenarios are publicizing "Obamacare" far more effectively than any advertising the Federal Government could have done.

Most Americans only respond to crises; so the Teapublicans have created multiple weeks of crisis focused on the web-site glitches alerting Americans to this new Federal program. Obamacare will take its place within the pantheon of crucial social programs---Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Snap.

So, rejoice in each debunked horror story and Tea Party over-reach.

brewens

(13,400 posts)
6. "Obamacare penalty"? Am I correct that paying the penalty also automatically subscribes you
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:44 PM
Nov 2013

to a minimum coverage? That's what I assumed from the start. I'm hearing people that think it's a fine and they still won't have insurance. I don't think that is being accurately explained much of the time.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,119 posts)
7. I think the penalty is just a penalty -- nothing more.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 02:55 PM
Nov 2013

Otherwise, there'd be no need for a second-year penalty, since everyone would have wound up being covered in the first year.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone more familiar with it will set me straight. And I thank them in advance.

On edit: By the way, that first-year penalty is $95 or 1% of your income -- whichever is greater.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. Paying the tax penalty does not get you insurance
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 03:57 PM
Nov 2013

It's just a penalty, to try to nudge people towards getting insurance.

brewens

(13,400 posts)
16. I did go and find that explanation on the ACA web site and it wouldn't make sense,
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 06:42 PM
Nov 2013

now that I think about it, for it to be like I was thinking. If the penaly got you a bronze plan or equivalent, you'd just take the penalty.

IronLionZion

(45,261 posts)
17. The penalty gets you nothing. Uncle Sam is not going to buy a plan for you.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 11:49 PM
Nov 2013

The supreme court has declared it a tax, and paying it will keep you out of jail.

If you want insurance coverage, you have to buy an insurance plan.

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
19. There is no possibility of jail for not paying the penalty
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 10:23 AM
Nov 2013

The ACA prohibits criminal penalties. Unless you show the IRS that you have insurance or that you are exempt from the mandate, they can deduct the penalty from your tax refund, should you be due one.

If you aren't due a refund, they can send you a stern letter, but that's it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/29/irs-hamstrung-on-collecting-health-law-penalties/3310355/

Exemptions include:

You’re uninsured for less than 3 months of the year;
The lowest-priced coverage available to you would cost more than 8% of your household income;
You don’t have to file a tax return because your income is too low;
You’re a member of a federally recognized tribe or eligible for services through an Indian Health Services provider;
You’re a member of a recognized health care sharing ministry;
You’re a member of a recognized religious sect with religious objections to insurance, including Social Security and Medicare;
You’re incarcerated, and not awaiting the disposition of charges against you; and
You’re not lawfully present in the U.S.
Your income is less than 133% of the federal poverty level ...

You may qualify for a hardship exemption if:

You were homeless;
You were evicted in the past 6 months or were facing eviction or foreclosure;
You received a shut-off notice from a utility company;
You recently experienced domestic violence;
You recently experienced the death of a close family member;
You experienced a fire, flood, or other natural or human-caused disaster that caused substantial damage to your property;
You filed for bankruptcy in the last 6 months;
You had medical expenses you couldn’t pay in the last 24 months;
You experienced unexpected increases in necessary expenses due to caring for an ill, disabled, or aging family member;
You expect to claim a child as a tax dependent who’s been denied coverage in Medicaid and CHIP, and another person is required by court order to give medical support to the child. In this case, you do not have the pay the penalty for the child;
You were determined ineligible for Medicaid because your state didn’t expand eligibility for Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/10/28/obamacare-penalties-and-exemptions/

IronLionZion

(45,261 posts)
20. That's debatable since it was declared a tax
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 10:28 AM
Nov 2013

because the IRS does have the responsibility of enforcing tax laws, they could bundle it in with your other tax liabilities.

You won't find this language in the ACA. Its up to the IRS how they want to handle it.

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
21. It is not up to the IRS to handle it how they want
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 10:51 AM
Nov 2013


But when it passed the Affordable Care Act in 2010, Congress banned the IRS from using any of its usual techniques to force people to pay the penalty for failing to obtain health insurance.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/29/irs-hamstrung-on-collecting-health-law-penalties/3310355/

The ACA bars the IRS from bringing a criminal enforcement case against someone who refuses to pay the non-insurance penalty. And it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for it to enforce a tax lien. Law professors Jordan Barry and Bryan Camp have a nice piece in Tax Notes explaining it all.

That leaves only one tool—the IRS can subtract the penalty from any refund it owes a taxpayer. But that applies only if the IRS happens to owe somebody a refund. These days, two-thirds of taxpayers get one, but it is usually their choice.

Only low-income households who receive refundable credits, such as the Earned Income Credit, always get refunds. But the ACA specifically exempts most of them from the tax because their income is so low.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/07/03/some-tax-few-will-face-obamacare-uninsured-penalty-and-irs-hamstrung-to-collect/


brewens

(13,400 posts)
23. That's useful information for anyone determined to not take part in the ACA
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 12:32 PM
Nov 2013

in any way. They probably need to adjust their witholding at work to make sure they get no refund. Not that I think it's very smart for someone employed to remain uninsured, but some will.

Response to gollygee (Original post)

SunSeeker

(51,377 posts)
12. The government already has your personal info. You haven't lost anything.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 05:03 PM
Nov 2013

You've gained protections against insurance company abuses, and don't have to watch 45,000 of your fellow Americans die each year for lack of healthcare coverage.

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