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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRep. Elijah Cummings Nails Issa for Leaking Obamacare Misinformation
Dear Mr. Chairman:
Yesterday, you went on national television and made extremely serious allegations against U.S. Chief Technology Officer Todd Park and White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, essentially accusing them of lying to the American people about the Healthcare.gov website. You then used these alleged falsehoods to justify your threat to subpoena Mr. Park to force him to appear before the Committee next week to answer your allegations. Based on information obtained by the Committee a full week ago, however, it appears that your attacks against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney are unfounded and that your statements yesterday either misunderstood or mischaracterized the information the Committee obtained. In either case, I believe it is important to correct the public record, and I request that you apologize to these officials for the unsubstantiated accusations against them.
Unfounded Accusations Against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney
Yesterday, you launched a public attack against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney, accusing them of intentionally making false statements about the number of users that were anticipated for the Healthcare.gov website.
More: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254152/-Rep-Elijah-Cummings-Nails-Issa-for-Leaking-Obamacare-Misinformation#comments
chowder66
(9,011 posts)who spends hours bitching about a problem that is being worked on then interrupting and delaying that work by taking up time with said complaints.
I really dislike people like this.
It's like trying to do the dishes when someone is grabbing your arms and pulling them away while bitching about how you need to hurry up and do the dishes. (which is what a boyfriend of mine did as a joke...I admit it was pretty funny in that context).
Issa has some serious issues.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)about people like that. Having worked for the government, I was always amazed how the deadwoods could spend their whole day trying to get out of doing anything. I never could understand why they never figured out it was easier and less stressful just to do the job. Logic and common sense are things your born with, you can't buy them. Sheesh.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)I see it mostly at upper management and executive levels. Almost always and I would even argue "always" it comes from people who are very apt at bullshitting their ways into higher level positions. They can present themselves well, have the confidence (or faux confidence), speak the language and play the "I'm a professional" game but they really... REALLY.. don't know what their doing.
They half-ass it, try to delegate it out but when they do this.... they do such a bad job of explaining it (because they don't understand it themselves) that when the person who takes it over fails.. the person who delegated it complains and bitches about it and typically berates the underling for their own terrible explanation of what to do or how to do it. They ultimately get in their own way while shitting everywhere.
It's a cover for ineptitude. He shouldn't be in the positions he's in as well as other like him. They get paid to blow smoke, look the part and speak in certain but very limited terms about the subject the don't know much about.
It's one of my pet peeves in the corporate/business world. People getting paid and getting positions they do not really know shit about.
All spin and no work make Issa and his ilk incompetent. They are a drag on us all. I find it remarkable that these people do not get fired or lose elections. And it will keep going on until enough people understand this and start calling them out for being frauds.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,119 posts)And the bigger the company/government, the worse it is.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)managed to "cope" with it. It's difficult when others are "sold" on a person. Anything you say to the contrary of their "belief in a person" is seen as disruptive and that you have some issue.
Those "believers" that get duped by these types don't want to admit they are wrong and revel too much in their "team"/their "hire".
They turn a blind eye to reality until it bites them... and boy do I love being there when it does.
It doesn't help me, it just validates what I know to be true.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)chowder66
(9,011 posts)or in some instances. I have seen it come through the door into a high level position right off the bat though but I imagine that the reason they are coming through the door in the first place is because of unemployment based on the peter principle from earlier positions.
Interesting. Thanks.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)The board hired an outside COO to do the COO stuff and report directly to the CEO and board. His talks reminded me of of the Ken Lay style. About 1-1/2 years in, he was escorted off the campus and his personal stuff was delivered by cab as he was not allowed on the campus. None of the executive admins ever talked at all about it. His phone was still active and office not occupied for another six months. So yep it does happen at the top level.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)I spoke to my dad last night after learning about the peter principle from you and I hadn't told him about this post. He just was talking about semi-retirement and asked me if he had told me the "Vince" story. I said no, he then related a story about how the company he works for recently hired a guy who went out of business (cabinetry for homes) due to the economy and went into bankruptcy.
They brought in "Vince" and "Vince" decided he knew every problem the company was having and he would fix it and asked my dad for important backend coding, etc. My dad said "Nope, I think you are getting ahead of yourself". This caused my dad to suspect there might be a problem.
This guy then basically created some interfaces over my dads coding but in the end it was just smoke and mirrors. However, upper management and the owners were hyped up on the guy because he was so assertive and spoke as though he really did know the issues and could fix them.
Vince was going into each department and pissing each Head off but he helped set up a younger guy who my dad is training to replace him when he goes into retirement and my dad said "I'm coming to the meeting with you" referring to the younger guy. Vince then tried to beat this other guy down who had nothing to do with any of the issues Vince was railing about. I guess it was at this meeting when people started to finally understand something was wrong and this guy really doesn't know what the eff he is doing.
Vince resigned, gave a two-weeks notice, left half way through day 10. Poof!!! Vince who?
That's when I said hey dad, have you heard about the Peter Principle and he said "Oh yeah and maybe they need to update the name to the Vince Principle".
Weird how things connect sometimes.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)To the point that I swore I would never work for another corporation again. Hire hotshots and they would just about always rise to their own level.
I saw it all the time at the last telecom I worked for. I was funny I saw them keep moving in managers for different departments, they would naturally let some people go, and give it a year and the manager was history.
I kept getting asked to move up the ladder and I kept saying no thanks. I topped out in pay and could no longer get raises, but I would get one every so often. I did not worry because I was getting close to being 65.
I could have doubled my income, but I was happy at what I did. I was a simple "telephone man" at the corporate campus.
I had a lady chew me up and down my backside (she was better than me) for some weird ass problem she was having. Naturally all I can say is "yes mam, no mam" The CEO came in wearing his running clothes and slaps me on my back and calls me by my first name and asks me how everything was going, I said Fine and called him by his first name and he said great, see ya later and asked me go for a run with him some time. The lady started saying "I really didn't mean to say I was having a really bad problem" and walked away. I loved that job.
The month after I turned 65 they offered a severance package to operations people and only about 5% of those applying for it got it. It had to be approved by so many people up and down the ladder. However I got it. 6 months pay with full retirement benefits although I was 6 months shy of the number of years to qualify.
I think if I had done like everybody else and just climbed the ladder, I would have been toast a long time ago.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)Seems you knew what to watch for and what the cost was. I learned about this luckily and while I have been given opportunities (in essence) to take on a new title that sounds fancy I have declined based on the fact that the title just means "we will hold you responsible for our mistakes" and we will throw more work at you with little to no pay raises. No thank you. I know my limitations and my strengths and I"m keeping some of that for myself. I find no worth in exploitation without benefit to match.
Thanks for sharing your experience, it's been very interesting and it feels really good to know there are others paying attention. I sometimes wonder if enough are seeing this or if the societal pressures to "succeed" are making people ignore what is really going on.
Obviously there are great employers, great upper-management and the goal to succeed can be a good one but at what cost?
While I have learned many of the tricks to get ahead I cannot employ them, it's not in me and if it was I would hope I would examine it and figure out another way to be.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)the group you are in. A lot of people move up to a position managing a group that they were not involved with. Those are the ones that don't make it. If a person is promoted from within their own group they seem to do very well. Managers especially the low level ones are the most expendable.
It is entirely possible to get that managers position managing the group that the person was in and do a very good job, and then move to a second level managers position again managing the people you were working with before but also picking the other groups doing approximately the same thing.
Those are the ones who successfully migrate up the food chain. But at some point upper management will want that person to take over something they know nothing about. Upper management feel that managers can do any managers job. Just like a telecomm CEO can easily move to be the CEO of a car company. Yea Sure.
A manager dealing with large customers will not make it if they put in for a managers job of a data center. Easy fail
I once installed a phone on the CEO floor for a director and put it in again 3 weeks later for another director (same position) and 2 months later did it again. Their admin and I felt sorry for the 4th kid that moved in.
Large corporations are really weird entities.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)is if you move into a managers position in another department and get to hire your staff or the staff is tiny...like one. That is at least one instance I think it can work if the person is suited for the position.
I have only been in one large corporation, the others were smaller but most have been start-ups. The start-up structure eventually follows suit into the corporate management model. That's when start-ups stop being fun and the politics come into play. Ohhhh the politics.
And to your point about the success of one taking over another area (unless it is interim) which really wouldn't log as a success, I haven't seen it work and I've seen a lot of that in start-ups. I never really thought about that and you're right.
All one has to do when moving up the ladder is ask themselves "What happened to the person before me and the person before them?".
I suppose if your ego is strong and you have the goods - the actual goods, it can work but boy is it rare.
Typically weird is a good thing but in corporations, not so much.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)That's the word I couldn't think of, thanks!
I've seen it all in the prison biz. I'd write a book but they know where I am lol. One example i could give is when a warden and 2 chief deputy wardens (yeah, they were always too many bosses) were caught embezzling millions from the prison. The warden was transfered to a new prison in podunkia, one chief deputy retired, and the other was demoted and transfered. All nicely swept under the rug. The big joke was not all the cons were behind the bars.
Ineptitude, BS and fancy dancing seem to be the way to get ahead.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)I have worked for. I'm sure plenty. And if they aren't criminals they typically have access to people to help them bend the rules and use loopholes while sleeping well each night.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)they're paid well, live well and sleep well.
Hopefully enough people will wise up and join the rest of us in taking down the circus.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)about these practices going on a couple of decades (I'm sure there are others who have seen it for far longer than I have).
What's troubling is that it is getting worse. I still haven't fully figured out the formula but it goes something like this;
1) Know the right lingo to cause physical and/or mental stimulation in executives
2) Show the right kind of confidence (ego + bragging + trumped up achievements + dirty tricks that get the short term results)
3) Be brutally selfish
4) Delegate anything especially if you don't fully understand something
5) Throw others under the bus for your ineptitude
6) Never, EVER, apologize
7) Don't take any benefit unless you can get more upfront
8) Always get more upfront
9) Be willing to be an asshole everyday and be nice or at least passive/aggressive when it is the exception
I'm sure there is more.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)and the 'I've got mine' mind set. Sucks and blows.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)be a good descriptor for those that take advantage selfishly.
Example: Sucks and Blows get promoted without qualification or Sucks and Blows are overpaid and treat those below them with contempt.
I'm liking it....
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)has been sanctioned, recalled, impeached and imprisoned! I'm loving it lol.
chowder66
(9,011 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)chowder66
(9,011 posts)I know of others that fit your description much better. Cheney comes to mind as does Manson... but Issa is more pathetic to me.
Incapable... and because he has the position he does he's just fucking around and hoping he can get through his term without anyone actually doing anything but then there's Cummings who has become a thorn in Issa's side and I hope he keeps at it.
Squirm Issa, squirm.
valerief
(53,235 posts)chowder66
(9,011 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)there are some things there that I did not know so thanks for those. But much of it I did and after reading the one guys experience that Issa is the most evil person...I'll bet that person is stating that from a real place.
I see Issa as pathetic but I should have added that he is a corrupt and dirty bastard as well. I still think there are more evil people in the world but he sure does come damn close.
I need to take a shower after reading those links.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)Misdirection. IMO, "they" are all in on it.
This is reality. It is not the reality that "we the people" want. Screw the misdirection.
We need to keep our goals in sight and ignore the crap.
Every day is a new day and by God we should treat it that way.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)And not 'clown' in the funny way. More like the one in 'It'.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Faux pas
(14,582 posts)malaise
(267,812 posts)the IRS
I just spent a minute or two thinking about how this must be a story line in the new GTA game before I realized that was your pet name for him.
malaise
(267,812 posts)Faux pas
(14,582 posts)Now I do and lol.
malaise
(267,812 posts)but it was another DUers original idea.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)the better for all.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Their only concern is how bad Obamacare is and how low Pres O's ratings are w/o mentioning Congress' ratings and nothing whatsoever about the shutdown, $24 billions lost, and that ugly sequester. No mention about the need for creating jobs, fixing America's economy nor its infrastructure, et al.,
Nope, its all about tearing down the Pres and his party. . .propping up their miracle and new President Christie and allowing the TBs to run rampage.
money makes their world go round. I believe greed is the most deadly sin.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)AND IF HE EVER DID, it will NEVER be carried on media. They just plant the seeds of deception non-stop.
IMO, they are more complicit in wrecking this country than crooks like Issa. He's just a shiny thing they wave around.
come on, he's not that shiny! Not unless you mean shiny like a slug's trail?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Faux pas
(14,582 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Faux pas
(14,582 posts)bastids. It would be so easy if nobody cared.
hotrod0808
(323 posts)who is called to testify before one of his hearings would respond to his insane accusations with, "well, I made a mistake, but it's not like I stole a car or burned my own warehouse down. Because that would be felonious."
I would watch that - you'd have to pick me up from the ground. I'd be choking with laughter
Gary 50
(381 posts)I would love to see Issa's face after that burn. I would love to see him squirm and mumble incoherently in response. Please please please let this happen.
The Wizard
(12,482 posts)runs around waving his arms telling everyone how much he's doing, and at the end of the day nothing gets accomplished. We all worked with slugs like this.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)the truth will never get old for this man.
sheshe2
(83,338 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Does anyone want to reopen a certain arson investigation? Or is Issa going to call hearings after charging that President Obama burned his car alarm factory?
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)But how can he when the 'real' problem is ObamaCare?
Projection seems to be the only weapon these reptiles have.
Blue Owl
(49,916 posts)Soon.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)Berlum
(7,044 posts)Faux pas
(14,582 posts)Those are the one's who bug me the most. Thumping with one hand and stabbing someone in the back with the other, SINFUL.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Still trying to wrap my head around how that can even happen. Ignoring that, of course they are going to milk any aspect of the ACA and its support structure. It's all just another episode in the ongoing political theater. Once this crisis settles into its inevitable acceptance, we will be on the edge of our soapboxes for the next exciting show.
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)Real humans find it quite ridiculous.