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Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 02:43 PM Nov 2013

Rep. Elijah Cummings Nails Issa for Leaking Obamacare Misinformation

Dear Mr. Chairman:

Yesterday, you went on national television and made extremely serious allegations against U.S. Chief Technology Officer Todd Park and White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, essentially accusing them of lying to the American people about the Healthcare.gov website. You then used these alleged falsehoods to justify your threat to subpoena Mr. Park to force him to appear before the Committee next week to answer your allegations. Based on information obtained by the Committee a full week ago, however, it appears that your attacks against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney are unfounded and that your statements yesterday either misunderstood or mischaracterized the information the Committee obtained. In either case, I believe it is important to correct the public record, and I request that you apologize to these officials for the unsubstantiated accusations against them.

Unfounded Accusations Against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney

Yesterday, you launched a public attack against Mr. Park and Mr. Carney, accusing them of intentionally making false statements about the number of users that were anticipated for the Healthcare.gov website.

More: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254152/-Rep-Elijah-Cummings-Nails-Issa-for-Leaking-Obamacare-Misinformation#comments

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Rep. Elijah Cummings Nails Issa for Leaking Obamacare Misinformation (Original Post) Faux pas Nov 2013 OP
FFS Issa is one of those people chowder66 Nov 2013 #1
There's nothing to like Faux pas Nov 2013 #3
It's not just in government chowder66 Nov 2013 #11
My experience to a T... Buns_of_Fire Nov 2013 #12
Yep. It frustrates me to no end but I've chowder66 Nov 2013 #15
I have found that "The Peter Principle" usually comes around and bites them in the butt LiberalArkie Nov 2013 #22
Never heard of that before, makes sense to a degree chowder66 Nov 2013 #24
Most of the executives at the company I retired from came from the parent company LiberalArkie Nov 2013 #26
Strangely enough chowder66 Nov 2013 #37
It is strange that in my early years with Western Electric/DOD that is was very apparent. LiberalArkie Nov 2013 #44
Priorities and paying attention chowder66 Nov 2013 #46
I think for the young kids out there is to not move to a managers position that is outside of LiberalArkie Nov 2013 #52
I agree but one exception chowder66 Nov 2013 #56
Ineptitude Faux pas Nov 2013 #28
I wonder how many criminals chowder66 Nov 2013 #31
That's what pisses me off the most, Faux pas Nov 2013 #33
I wish... but I've been annoyed chowder66 Nov 2013 #42
It all started with raygun Faux pas Nov 2013 #45
Sucks and Blows would chowder66 Nov 2013 #47
The dynamic duo, Sucks and Blows, Faux pas Nov 2013 #50
: D .nt chowder66 Nov 2013 #57
He's the worst form of human. Evil incarnate. A true sociopath. nt valerief Nov 2013 #8
Look, I don't like Issa one bit but chowder66 Nov 2013 #16
No, Issa is Cheney-level evil. nt valerief Nov 2013 #17
How? nt chowder66 Nov 2013 #18
Take your pick. valerief Nov 2013 #19
Okay chowder66 Nov 2013 #20
More Kabuki theater dotymed Nov 2013 #30
Kabuki Clown theater. Faux pas Nov 2013 #36
Good. These idiots need to be called to task for every damn thing they do like this. n/t cui bono Nov 2013 #2
Yes, yes, yes! Faux pas Nov 2013 #4
Same shite approach Grand theft auto used against malaise Nov 2013 #5
lmao.... cui bono Nov 2013 #6
Bwaaaaaaaaaaah hahahahaha malaise Nov 2013 #10
I didn't get the gta reference before. Faux pas Nov 2013 #38
Wish it was my original malaise Nov 2013 #48
The farther it spreads Faux pas Nov 2013 #51
And corporate media won't expose this. Iliyah Nov 2013 #7
Yeah Faux pas Nov 2013 #39
Grand Theft Issa will NEVER apologize. Couldn't keep track of his own lies, likely. freshwest Nov 2013 #9
lol Faux pas Nov 2013 #32
Shiny enough to get hours of air time where the truth is never told... freshwest Nov 2013 #43
It just doesn't compute does it? Faux pas Nov 2013 #49
It does when you know who's paying these shills. Their allegiance is to their paycheck. Not the 1A. freshwest Nov 2013 #54
Lying cheating greedy Faux pas Nov 2013 #61
I wish that just one person hotrod0808 Nov 2013 #13
ROFL malaise Nov 2013 #14
Me too.. Gary 50 Nov 2013 #27
... Faux pas Nov 2013 #29
Typical mid level beureaucrat The Wizard Nov 2013 #21
So true! Faux pas Nov 2013 #60
thank you, rep. elijah cummings, hopemountain Nov 2013 #23
K&R! nt sheshe2 Nov 2013 #25
Issa never lets the truth get in the way of a good witch hunt Jack Rabbit Nov 2013 #34
I'm surprised he hasn't. Faux pas Nov 2013 #41
Hope someday he becomes Darryl Wassa. Blue Owl Nov 2013 #35
works for me! Faux pas Nov 2013 #40
Republicons need to read and honor their Bible, instead of just thumping it Berlum Nov 2013 #53
Ah, the thumpers... Faux pas Nov 2013 #58
Leaking a lie seveneyes Nov 2013 #55
The show is only exciting to that side. Faux pas Nov 2013 #59

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
1. FFS Issa is one of those people
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 02:53 PM
Nov 2013

who spends hours bitching about a problem that is being worked on then interrupting and delaying that work by taking up time with said complaints.
I really dislike people like this.

It's like trying to do the dishes when someone is grabbing your arms and pulling them away while bitching about how you need to hurry up and do the dishes. (which is what a boyfriend of mine did as a joke...I admit it was pretty funny in that context).

Issa has some serious issues.

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
3. There's nothing to like
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 03:17 PM
Nov 2013

about people like that. Having worked for the government, I was always amazed how the deadwoods could spend their whole day trying to get out of doing anything. I never could understand why they never figured out it was easier and less stressful just to do the job. Logic and common sense are things your born with, you can't buy them. Sheesh.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
11. It's not just in government
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:11 PM
Nov 2013

I see it mostly at upper management and executive levels. Almost always and I would even argue "always" it comes from people who are very apt at bullshitting their ways into higher level positions. They can present themselves well, have the confidence (or faux confidence), speak the language and play the "I'm a professional" game but they really... REALLY.. don't know what their doing.

They half-ass it, try to delegate it out but when they do this.... they do such a bad job of explaining it (because they don't understand it themselves) that when the person who takes it over fails.. the person who delegated it complains and bitches about it and typically berates the underling for their own terrible explanation of what to do or how to do it. They ultimately get in their own way while shitting everywhere.

It's a cover for ineptitude. He shouldn't be in the positions he's in as well as other like him. They get paid to blow smoke, look the part and speak in certain but very limited terms about the subject the don't know much about.

It's one of my pet peeves in the corporate/business world. People getting paid and getting positions they do not really know shit about.
All spin and no work make Issa and his ilk incompetent. They are a drag on us all. I find it remarkable that these people do not get fired or lose elections. And it will keep going on until enough people understand this and start calling them out for being frauds.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
15. Yep. It frustrates me to no end but I've
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:28 PM
Nov 2013

managed to "cope" with it. It's difficult when others are "sold" on a person. Anything you say to the contrary of their "belief in a person" is seen as disruptive and that you have some issue.
Those "believers" that get duped by these types don't want to admit they are wrong and revel too much in their "team"/their "hire".
They turn a blind eye to reality until it bites them... and boy do I love being there when it does.

It doesn't help me, it just validates what I know to be true.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
24. Never heard of that before, makes sense to a degree
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 08:14 PM
Nov 2013

or in some instances. I have seen it come through the door into a high level position right off the bat though but I imagine that the reason they are coming through the door in the first place is because of unemployment based on the peter principle from earlier positions.

Interesting. Thanks.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
26. Most of the executives at the company I retired from came from the parent company
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 10:30 PM
Nov 2013

The board hired an outside COO to do the COO stuff and report directly to the CEO and board. His talks reminded me of of the Ken Lay style. About 1-1/2 years in, he was escorted off the campus and his personal stuff was delivered by cab as he was not allowed on the campus. None of the executive admins ever talked at all about it. His phone was still active and office not occupied for another six months. So yep it does happen at the top level.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
37. Strangely enough
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:46 PM
Nov 2013

I spoke to my dad last night after learning about the peter principle from you and I hadn't told him about this post. He just was talking about semi-retirement and asked me if he had told me the "Vince" story. I said no, he then related a story about how the company he works for recently hired a guy who went out of business (cabinetry for homes) due to the economy and went into bankruptcy.

They brought in "Vince" and "Vince" decided he knew every problem the company was having and he would fix it and asked my dad for important backend coding, etc. My dad said "Nope, I think you are getting ahead of yourself". This caused my dad to suspect there might be a problem.

This guy then basically created some interfaces over my dads coding but in the end it was just smoke and mirrors. However, upper management and the owners were hyped up on the guy because he was so assertive and spoke as though he really did know the issues and could fix them.

Vince was going into each department and pissing each Head off but he helped set up a younger guy who my dad is training to replace him when he goes into retirement and my dad said "I'm coming to the meeting with you" referring to the younger guy. Vince then tried to beat this other guy down who had nothing to do with any of the issues Vince was railing about. I guess it was at this meeting when people started to finally understand something was wrong and this guy really doesn't know what the eff he is doing.

Vince resigned, gave a two-weeks notice, left half way through day 10. Poof!!! Vince who?

That's when I said hey dad, have you heard about the Peter Principle and he said "Oh yeah and maybe they need to update the name to the Vince Principle".

Weird how things connect sometimes.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
44. It is strange that in my early years with Western Electric/DOD that is was very apparent.
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 03:06 PM
Nov 2013

To the point that I swore I would never work for another corporation again. Hire hotshots and they would just about always rise to their own level.
I saw it all the time at the last telecom I worked for. I was funny I saw them keep moving in managers for different departments, they would naturally let some people go, and give it a year and the manager was history.

I kept getting asked to move up the ladder and I kept saying no thanks. I topped out in pay and could no longer get raises, but I would get one every so often. I did not worry because I was getting close to being 65.
I could have doubled my income, but I was happy at what I did. I was a simple "telephone man" at the corporate campus.

I had a lady chew me up and down my backside (she was better than me) for some weird ass problem she was having. Naturally all I can say is "yes mam, no mam" The CEO came in wearing his running clothes and slaps me on my back and calls me by my first name and asks me how everything was going, I said Fine and called him by his first name and he said great, see ya later and asked me go for a run with him some time. The lady started saying "I really didn't mean to say I was having a really bad problem" and walked away. I loved that job.

The month after I turned 65 they offered a severance package to operations people and only about 5% of those applying for it got it. It had to be approved by so many people up and down the ladder. However I got it. 6 months pay with full retirement benefits although I was 6 months shy of the number of years to qualify.

I think if I had done like everybody else and just climbed the ladder, I would have been toast a long time ago.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
46. Priorities and paying attention
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 03:24 PM
Nov 2013

Seems you knew what to watch for and what the cost was. I learned about this luckily and while I have been given opportunities (in essence) to take on a new title that sounds fancy I have declined based on the fact that the title just means "we will hold you responsible for our mistakes" and we will throw more work at you with little to no pay raises. No thank you. I know my limitations and my strengths and I"m keeping some of that for myself. I find no worth in exploitation without benefit to match.

Thanks for sharing your experience, it's been very interesting and it feels really good to know there are others paying attention. I sometimes wonder if enough are seeing this or if the societal pressures to "succeed" are making people ignore what is really going on.
Obviously there are great employers, great upper-management and the goal to succeed can be a good one but at what cost?

While I have learned many of the tricks to get ahead I cannot employ them, it's not in me and if it was I would hope I would examine it and figure out another way to be.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
52. I think for the young kids out there is to not move to a managers position that is outside of
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 04:43 PM
Nov 2013

the group you are in. A lot of people move up to a position managing a group that they were not involved with. Those are the ones that don't make it. If a person is promoted from within their own group they seem to do very well. Managers especially the low level ones are the most expendable.

It is entirely possible to get that managers position managing the group that the person was in and do a very good job, and then move to a second level managers position again managing the people you were working with before but also picking the other groups doing approximately the same thing.

Those are the ones who successfully migrate up the food chain. But at some point upper management will want that person to take over something they know nothing about. Upper management feel that managers can do any managers job. Just like a telecomm CEO can easily move to be the CEO of a car company. Yea Sure.

A manager dealing with large customers will not make it if they put in for a managers job of a data center. Easy fail

I once installed a phone on the CEO floor for a director and put it in again 3 weeks later for another director (same position) and 2 months later did it again. Their admin and I felt sorry for the 4th kid that moved in.

Large corporations are really weird entities.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
56. I agree but one exception
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 05:16 PM
Nov 2013

is if you move into a managers position in another department and get to hire your staff or the staff is tiny...like one. That is at least one instance I think it can work if the person is suited for the position.

I have only been in one large corporation, the others were smaller but most have been start-ups. The start-up structure eventually follows suit into the corporate management model. That's when start-ups stop being fun and the politics come into play. Ohhhh the politics.

And to your point about the success of one taking over another area (unless it is interim) which really wouldn't log as a success, I haven't seen it work and I've seen a lot of that in start-ups. I never really thought about that and you're right.

All one has to do when moving up the ladder is ask themselves "What happened to the person before me and the person before them?".
I suppose if your ego is strong and you have the goods - the actual goods, it can work but boy is it rare.

Typically weird is a good thing but in corporations, not so much.


Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
28. Ineptitude
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:25 PM
Nov 2013

That's the word I couldn't think of, thanks!

I've seen it all in the prison biz. I'd write a book but they know where I am lol. One example i could give is when a warden and 2 chief deputy wardens (yeah, they were always too many bosses) were caught embezzling millions from the prison. The warden was transfered to a new prison in podunkia, one chief deputy retired, and the other was demoted and transfered. All nicely swept under the rug. The big joke was not all the cons were behind the bars.

Ineptitude, BS and fancy dancing seem to be the way to get ahead.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
31. I wonder how many criminals
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:32 PM
Nov 2013

I have worked for. I'm sure plenty. And if they aren't criminals they typically have access to people to help them bend the rules and use loopholes while sleeping well each night.

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
33. That's what pisses me off the most,
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:42 PM
Nov 2013

they're paid well, live well and sleep well.

Hopefully enough people will wise up and join the rest of us in taking down the circus.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
42. I wish... but I've been annoyed
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:59 PM
Nov 2013

about these practices going on a couple of decades (I'm sure there are others who have seen it for far longer than I have).
What's troubling is that it is getting worse. I still haven't fully figured out the formula but it goes something like this;

1) Know the right lingo to cause physical and/or mental stimulation in executives
2) Show the right kind of confidence (ego + bragging + trumped up achievements + dirty tricks that get the short term results)
3) Be brutally selfish
4) Delegate anything especially if you don't fully understand something
5) Throw others under the bus for your ineptitude
6) Never, EVER, apologize
7) Don't take any benefit unless you can get more upfront
8) Always get more upfront
9) Be willing to be an asshole everyday and be nice or at least passive/aggressive when it is the exception

I'm sure there is more.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
47. Sucks and Blows would
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 03:28 PM
Nov 2013

be a good descriptor for those that take advantage selfishly.

Example: Sucks and Blows get promoted without qualification or Sucks and Blows are overpaid and treat those below them with contempt.

I'm liking it....

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
50. The dynamic duo, Sucks and Blows,
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 04:24 PM
Nov 2013

has been sanctioned, recalled, impeached and imprisoned! I'm loving it lol.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
16. Look, I don't like Issa one bit but
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:32 PM
Nov 2013

I know of others that fit your description much better. Cheney comes to mind as does Manson... but Issa is more pathetic to me.
Incapable... and because he has the position he does he's just fucking around and hoping he can get through his term without anyone actually doing anything but then there's Cummings who has become a thorn in Issa's side and I hope he keeps at it.

Squirm Issa, squirm.

chowder66

(9,011 posts)
20. Okay
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:58 PM
Nov 2013

there are some things there that I did not know so thanks for those. But much of it I did and after reading the one guys experience that Issa is the most evil person...I'll bet that person is stating that from a real place.

I see Issa as pathetic but I should have added that he is a corrupt and dirty bastard as well. I still think there are more evil people in the world but he sure does come damn close.

I need to take a shower after reading those links.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
30. More Kabuki theater
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:30 PM
Nov 2013

Misdirection. IMO, "they" are all in on it.
This is reality. It is not the reality that "we the people" want. Screw the misdirection.
We need to keep our goals in sight and ignore the crap.
Every day is a new day and by God we should treat it that way.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
6. lmao....
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 03:22 PM
Nov 2013

I just spent a minute or two thinking about how this must be a story line in the new GTA game before I realized that was your pet name for him.



Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
7. And corporate media won't expose this.
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 03:32 PM
Nov 2013

Their only concern is how bad Obamacare is and how low Pres O's ratings are w/o mentioning Congress' ratings and nothing whatsoever about the shutdown, $24 billions lost, and that ugly sequester. No mention about the need for creating jobs, fixing America's economy nor its infrastructure, et al.,

Nope, its all about tearing down the Pres and his party. . .propping up their miracle and new President Christie and allowing the TBs to run rampage.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
9. Grand Theft Issa will NEVER apologize. Couldn't keep track of his own lies, likely.
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 03:33 PM
Nov 2013

AND IF HE EVER DID, it will NEVER be carried on media. They just plant the seeds of deception non-stop.

IMO, they are more complicit in wrecking this country than crooks like Issa. He's just a shiny thing they wave around.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
54. It does when you know who's paying these shills. Their allegiance is to their paycheck. Not the 1A.
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 05:00 PM
Nov 2013

hotrod0808

(323 posts)
13. I wish that just one person
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:22 PM
Nov 2013

who is called to testify before one of his hearings would respond to his insane accusations with, "well, I made a mistake, but it's not like I stole a car or burned my own warehouse down. Because that would be felonious."

Gary 50

(381 posts)
27. Me too..
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 01:47 PM
Nov 2013

I would love to see Issa's face after that burn. I would love to see him squirm and mumble incoherently in response. Please please please let this happen.

The Wizard

(12,482 posts)
21. Typical mid level beureaucrat
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 05:00 PM
Nov 2013

runs around waving his arms telling everyone how much he's doing, and at the end of the day nothing gets accomplished. We all worked with slugs like this.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
34. Issa never lets the truth get in the way of a good witch hunt
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:42 PM
Nov 2013

Does anyone want to reopen a certain arson investigation? Or is Issa going to call hearings after charging that President Obama burned his car alarm factory?

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
41. I'm surprised he hasn't.
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 02:57 PM
Nov 2013

But how can he when the 'real' problem is ObamaCare?

Projection seems to be the only weapon these reptiles have.

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
58. Ah, the thumpers...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:09 PM
Nov 2013

Those are the one's who bug me the most. Thumping with one hand and stabbing someone in the back with the other, SINFUL.

 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
55. Leaking a lie
Sun Nov 10, 2013, 05:01 PM
Nov 2013

Still trying to wrap my head around how that can even happen. Ignoring that, of course they are going to milk any aspect of the ACA and its support structure. It's all just another episode in the ongoing political theater. Once this crisis settles into its inevitable acceptance, we will be on the edge of our soapboxes for the next exciting show.

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