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Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:35 AM Aug 2014

Islamic State fanatics kidnap more than 3,000 women and girls in 2 week rampage

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/islamic-state-fanatics-kidnap-more-4062810

Up to 3,000 women and girls have been kidnapped by Islamic State thugs on the rampage in Iraq over the past two weeks, it is feared.

They face the terrifying prospect of being forced into marriage or sold as sex slaves, reports the Sunday People.

Amnesty International said the victims, some just babies, were snatched from villages overrun by the heavily-armed jihadists.

Hundreds of male villagers who refuse to convert to Islam have been mercilessly shot dead.

Meanwhile US jets continued to pound Islamic State positions and British planes airlifted relief supplies to refugees yesterday.





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Islamic State fanatics kidnap more than 3,000 women and girls in 2 week rampage (Original Post) Rhinodawg Aug 2014 OP
And ... Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #1
The US, UK and France are doing something. Turkey (whose fault this partially is) TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #2
Turkey doesn't want refugees.. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #4
There's only so much we can do without a ground presence. TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #5
So true... Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #7
I agree Little Star Aug 2014 #24
OMT. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #3
It's time for other countries to take action ...for a change. L0oniX Aug 2014 #6
Everyone agrees with you. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #8
Well then it is on the other countries for a change or will they sit back... L0oniX Aug 2014 #9
Thank you. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #10
All the barbarians have their loot (woman/kids) with them, so when they bomb the positions.. :( Sunlei Aug 2014 #11
Something you may find interesting. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #13
heartbreaking. Even if she escapes, will her own country help her? Sunlei Aug 2014 #15
Time For People To Stop Babbling About Incubators, Sir.... The Magistrate Aug 2014 #12
I don't understand what you are saying. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #14
A Common Response Here To Accurate Description Of I.S.I.L. Atrocities, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #16
Thank you. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #18
Oddly enough, enlightenment Aug 2014 #20
Quibbles, Sir... The Magistrate Aug 2014 #21
So, in other words, enlightenment Aug 2014 #22
What Does Not Matter, Ma'am, Is Quibbles Intended To Salvage The 'It's All Lies' Line The Magistrate Aug 2014 #23
I never said it wasn't happening. enlightenment Aug 2014 #26
Again, Ma'am, Quibbles, And Quibbles Aimed At Minimizing Bleed Into Quibbles Aimed At Denying The Magistrate Aug 2014 #28
The US response so far has been appropriate, I think. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2014 #17
So far... Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #19
Well, this has only been a "crisis" for a few weeks. The response is just beginning. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2014 #29
Hmmmm...good post. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #30
Basically... This is genocidal ethnic cleansing. Rhinodawg Aug 2014 #25
Were it possible to isolate these stone age lunatics hifiguy Aug 2014 #27
 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
1. And ...
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:39 AM
Aug 2014

the world does nothing.
the UN does nothing.
Turkey has done nothing.
Egypt has done nothing.
Jordan has done nothing.

Who is going to stand up for these women ?

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
2. The US, UK and France are doing something. Turkey (whose fault this partially is)
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:43 AM
Aug 2014

is offering some relief supplies and trying to seal its borders to stem the flow of the terrorists. Germany flew some airdrops. The rest of the ME is kind of a no-show.

 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
7. So true...
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:55 AM
Aug 2014

And therefore this will continue with impunity

The civilized world should be ashamed of itself.

 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
3. OMT.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:44 AM
Aug 2014

As a feminist, I want to know why my sisters have remained so silent.

Speaking for women's rights doesn't stop at the water's edge.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
6. It's time for other countries to take action ...for a change.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 11:55 AM
Aug 2014

We have an epidemic of human trafficking & slavery right here in the USA. It's a huge crime here in my area.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
9. Well then it is on the other countries for a change or will they sit back...
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:02 PM
Aug 2014

and blame the US for the illegal Iraq war ...which many of them participated in? They will blame the US IMO ...and those war hawks, the MIC's complicit media shills and the Bush war crimes gang ...or the people we elected and the TV talking heads we listen to.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
11. All the barbarians have their loot (woman/kids) with them, so when they bomb the positions.. :(
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:16 PM
Aug 2014

The people who managed to flee before their homes were pillaged, have been moved out, flow out off the mountain places to refugee camps. Not such a great place to be either but at the least there is shelter, food and the organized Red Cross.

I fear there probably are not many of the 'kidnapped' woman who will survive whatever hell they have had to endure.

 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
13. Something you may find interesting.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:32 PM
Aug 2014

Please, let American jets bomb my prison... death is better than to be forced off with a strange man: 8 months pregnant, captured by Islamic thugs waging 'Sexual Holy War' - one woman issues a heartrending plea


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726894/Please-let-American-jets-bomb-prison-death-better-forced-strange-man-8-months-pregnant-captured-Islamic-thugs-waging-Sexual-Holy-War-one-woman-issues-heartrending-plea.html

The call came in the early hours, the voice muffled, furtive and shaking with fear. ‘If they see me talking to someone they will kill me for sure, maybe kill all of us.’
This was Nisreen, a 17-year-old seized by the vicious Islamic State forces who have swept through Iraq and Syria spreading fear and panic.
She told how she was one of 96 Yazidi girls kidnapped when their towns and villages fell to the fanatics.
Now these teenagers wait in terror to be sold into slavery or forced into marriage with militant Islamists.
‘I know this exact number because I hear them talking,’ said Nisreen. ‘We are sure they have sold us. We do not fear for our lives but for our dignity as women.’
It was a brave phone call from a desperate woman.
The world has heard the hideous stories of refugees fleeing the jihadists but here, for the first time, was a voice from the other side: from a kidnap victim trapped in IS’s newly-won territory.


The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
12. Time For People To Stop Babbling About Incubators, Sir....
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:29 PM
Aug 2014

"The important thing to remember is that these things happened. They happened even though Lord Halifax says they happened."

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
16. A Common Response Here To Accurate Description Of I.S.I.L. Atrocities, Sir
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:44 PM
Aug 2014

Is people engaging in ritual chants of 'just like Saddam tossing babies out of incubators in Kuwait', to convey that they are people of superior clarity of mind and understanding who refuse to be fooled by trumped up propaganda suggesting anyone but the United States commits atrocities; I.S.I.L. opposes the United States, and the United States intends to harm I.S.I.L., therefore any statement that I.S.I.L. behaves badly is false, and only concocted to whip up hysteria and support for war, probably by neo-con agents of the P.N.A.C., and no one should be taken in by such claims. With an Amnesty International report verifying the atrocities, people really ought to face up and drop that line, but I expect a hard core will continue it, even so.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
20. Oddly enough,
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 01:33 PM
Aug 2014

Amnesty International's website does not mention the kidnappings of 3000 women and children and the mass slaughter of the men. It does discuss the massive displacement and does call what is happening, to the Yazidi and other minority groups in Iraq, ethnic cleansing.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iraq

The last "tweet" on their twitter account is dated August 12 and also does not mention mass kidnapping and murder.
https://twitter.com/AmnestyOnline

The Amnesty reporter who is on the ground in Northern Iraq tweets that there apparently was a massacre - but she is uncertain of numbers. Survivors told her:

#Iraq Harrowing testimonies of survivors of Kocho massacre; scores men killed by ISIS in cold blood + 100s missing. Survivors looking 4 them

https://twitter.com/DRovera

The BBC reported on the Kocho massacre as well. They suggest 80 men were killed and "women and children" taken. The Washington Post also indicates 80 men - but gives a number, 300, for the number of women taken. (I'm not linking - google "kocho massacre&quot .

Both reports indicate that the information for this came from a Pesh Merga military commander who was citing accounts of people who lived in villages near Kocho.

If people are doubtful about the veracity of the information offered in this OP (and yesterdays, as well), it might be because of the sources being offered up. The Mirror is a rag, only slightly better than the Daily Mail. Are we suddenly supposed to swallow what they say simply because they say it? Are we to believe that suddenly the international news community is conspiring to keep the truth from us and the Mirror is the only reliable source?

Other sources indicate that something awful happened in Kocho, and the death and torture of innocents, however few, is horrible and wrong. However, according to the apocryphal statements of those nearby, the numbers, while awful, are nowhere close to what the 3000 the Mirror reports.

Adding a zero doesn't make it more important, of course. What is happening is wrong and needs to be stopped. What adding that zero does do is undermine the Mirror's tenuous credibility and make it less likely that people reading reports will believe what they are reading.

There are perhaps a few on DU that believe it is all smoke and no fire - but the majority of those who are skeptical are skeptical not because they are so vehemently opposed to engaging in another ground war in Iraq, but because they are not being offered any credible sources of information.



The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
21. Quibbles, Sir...
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 01:42 PM
Aug 2014

From the report:

“Those trapped on Sinjar Mountain make up a tiny percentage of the hundreds of thousands from minority communities displaced by the conflict, now stranded in dire conditions,” said Donatella Rovera, Amnesty International’s Senior Crisis Response Adviser, speaking from northern Iraq.


ISIS has mounted systematic attacks on minority communities in northern Iraq, including Turkemen and Shabak Shi’a communities as well as Christians and Yezidis, aiming to drive non-Sunni populations from the areas under their control.

“ISIS has given minority communities an unambiguous message – convert, leave or die. This is ethnic cleansing,” Donatella Rovera said.

“Survivors have told me how their male relatives were rounded up and executed and the women and children in their families abducted. A number of families from one of Iraq’s minorities, still living under ISIS rule, have told me they were recently forced to convert to Islam and are not able to leave the area.”

No good purpose is served by trying to pretend this is all fabrication, or by trying to keep in countenance people who pretend it is all fabrication. It is happening, and people who try and pretend it is not ought to be ashamed of themselves.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
22. So, in other words,
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 01:51 PM
Aug 2014

facts don't matter.

They do matter and you do your own credibility no favors by ignoring what I posted and suggesting that I am "trying to pretend this is all fabrication".

Doing it politely (if gender inappropriate) doesn't up the quality of your remarks.

Good day, Sir.

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
23. What Does Not Matter, Ma'am, Is Quibbles Intended To Salvage The 'It's All Lies' Line
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 02:13 PM
Aug 2014

There is no doubt whatever men are being murdered and women being abducted as spoils of war in considerable number. It is a bit much to expect precise information concerning the total number these fates have befallen, in present circumstances. What numbers have emerged, for particular instances, do not suggest that a total approaching three thousand abductions, over the previous two weeks, and the whole of the area the I.S.I.L. is operating in, is unreasonable. Even should the thing prove out at somewhat less, once the crisis has subsided and accurate count can be taken, it would still have been a reasonable estimate in conditions prevailing, with information available when made. And nothing about that figure alters the fact, which is reported by A.I., and on the basis of survivor testimony, that a great many men are being murdered, and a great many women being abducted as spoils of war, by I.S.I.L., and that I.S.I.L. is doing this in furtherance of a campaign, openly declared, to eradicate believers in a particular religion. This is not something fabricated by Western governments, not something made up by neo-cons: it is actually happening.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
26. I never said it wasn't happening.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 03:37 PM
Aug 2014

I agree that it is difficult to get precise information - but it is not difficult to do sufficient research on the topic to reach a more accurate assessment than the Mirror presents.

The Mirror is not a source of accurate, well-researched information and if people turn a jaundiced eye toward it as a source it is not because they do not believe I.S.I.L. is committing atrocities or that this is all some sort of fabrication. It is because they want something approaching a valid and researched report instead of inflamed hyperbole, loaded with modifiers:

From the article:

"More than 3000" - a statement without qualification in the title
"Up to 3000" - modified further with "it is feared" (i.e., we don't really know how many)
"Seems they took"
"Said to be held"

Are people being murdered and kidnapped? Yes, they are. But this sort of unverified reporting is not journalism - it is designed to gin up a response. You want a response (what sort I will not speculate on), so you're willing to defend the report. Your choice. I'll remember that the next time the Mirror publishes some poorly sourced and unverified piece on something you don't agree with - it will be interesting to see what you think of their reporting in that case.

You seem to be taking a 'my way or the highway' approach to this - either I swallow the article whole or I am a naive idiot who refuses to accept the truth, as you see it.

I'll take the highway and continue to believe that the Mirror isn't a good source for information.

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
28. Again, Ma'am, Quibbles, And Quibbles Aimed At Minimizing Bleed Into Quibbles Aimed At Denying
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 03:53 PM
Aug 2014

I am basing very little on the tone or presentation of the article. My focus is on the undeniable fact that murders and abductions are being committed in considerable number, as reported by Amnesty International on the basis of survivor testimony. People attempting to deny this fact, because it does not suit their preconceptions and ideological view of the world, present a repellent spectacle, and by now they have no excuse; there is no legitimate ground of uncertainty or refuge to be had in claims it is only self-interested government sources saying these things occur. The people who greeted news of this with the ritual chants of 'oh, yeah, emptied 'em out of incubators' when it first appeared were wrong, they were denying real atrocity, and as they continued doing so last week and even into this week, they were even more wrong, and to continue denial at present is to be both wrong and knowingly mendacious. In fact, people who trotted out the facile dismissals early ought to apologize for their failure to get it right, and stand down for a while and seriously examine their views and attitudes.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
17. The US response so far has been appropriate, I think.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 12:57 PM
Aug 2014

I am not an avid proponent of US military interventions. Quite the opposite, in fact.

That said, we bear some responsibility for the current state of affairs. Our invasion of Iraq provided an opening for Islamic radicalism and led to the creation of ISIS's predecessor, Al Qaeda in Iraq. And our support for the failed ginned-up rebellion in Syria opened space for ISIS to operate there.

Obama is not going to send in the cavalry, nor do I want him to. But I'm okay with the use of US air power to blunt ISIS's advance. The US can provide weaponry and other assistance to the Kurds and the Iraqi state.

In Iraq, the Kurds and the Shia will hold their own. It will be largely up to the Sunnis to decide whether they want to live in a caliphate or not. There are some signs the Sunni tribes are weary of the ISIS fanatics, and there are alternate military formations, like the tribal militias and the Naqshbandi Army (Saddam's old buddies). It could be like 2007-2008 all over again.

In Syria, we could start by cancelling that $500 million for "good" Syrian rebels. The attempt to overthrow Assad has failed, at the cost of nearly 200,000 lives, and with the additional cost of providing breathing room for ISIS.

Iran is the regional power that is doing the most to stop this. It is a bulwark of support for both the Assad regime and the Iraqi government in Baghdad. Maybe we need to work with Tehran on this?

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
29. Well, this has only been a "crisis" for a few weeks. The response is just beginning.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 04:44 PM
Aug 2014

In the past few weeks, we've seen:

1. The ousting of Maliki, with hopes, however dim, of forging a government in Baghdad that doesn't alienate the Sunnis.

2. The arrival of US air power.

3. Moves from both the US and European powers to arm the Kurds.

Nobody is going to be able to just click their fingers and make ISIS vanish.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
27. Were it possible to isolate these stone age lunatics
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 03:44 PM
Aug 2014

in one place, with all innocent people removed to somewhere safe and distant, a couple of neutron bombs would work a brisk and thorough remedy and possibly provide an object lesson from which even the equally lunatic could learn.

Too bad it can't be done.

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