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Mark David Chapman will remain in prison. (Original Post) raven mad Aug 2014 OP
VERY GOOD! nt LiberalElite Aug 2014 #1
Yay! shenmue Aug 2014 #2
34 years... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #3
He was NOT mentally ill. He is a sociopath. raven mad Aug 2014 #5
I cannot say... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #9
The records are out there. raven mad Aug 2014 #29
Not defending a damn thing - but Manson didn't kill anyone directly. Chapman did. boguspotus Aug 2014 #31
I was going to point that out. alphafemale Aug 2014 #41
Chapman's lawyers put forth an insanity defense... GReedDiamond Aug 2014 #6
Do you feel the same way about John Hinkley? Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #15
Apparently Hinckley has already been allowed out... GReedDiamond Aug 2014 #19
Legal strategies aside, both were mentally ill at the time... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #22
I have to agree with raven mad's post #5, above... GReedDiamond Aug 2014 #24
But, 34 years for a murder committed while mentally ill may be a bit much. kwolf68 Aug 2014 #8
A rather emotional response... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #13
I am certainly no fan of Chapman. Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #17
Nope. It should not. Murder is murder. raven mad Aug 2014 #25
Agreed alcibiades_mystery Aug 2014 #11
I agree - if he's legitimately a danger to others, then that's one thing. But in petronius Aug 2014 #18
If he wants out sooner, he can die. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #37
He was clearly mentally ill at the time... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #38
... conservaphobe Aug 2014 #39
Compassion is a gift... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #40
Right where he belongs! RunAwayGranny Aug 2014 #4
Welcome to DU, RunAwayGranny! raven mad Aug 2014 #30
I can dig it! RunAwayGranny Aug 2014 #35
Good. He's a fucking nothingburger. DinahMoeHum Aug 2014 #7
Good BeyondGeography Aug 2014 #10
Good! Rhiannon12866 Aug 2014 #12
... Cooley Hurd Aug 2014 #14
DU is very forgiving of mentally ill murderers unreadierLizard Aug 2014 #16
Teach me YOUR tolerance. No, don't. n/t UTUSN Aug 2014 #21
+1 raven mad Aug 2014 #27
I don't forgive murder. Ever. raven mad Aug 2014 #26
R#12 & K for, YAY!1 n/t UTUSN Aug 2014 #20
Yeah, thanks for the reminder. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #23
Good. Stay there 'till you die. I won't waste time with unctuous equivocations. NBachers Aug 2014 #28
agreed samsingh Aug 2014 #33
for him, i would support the death penalty samsingh Aug 2014 #32
I hope he spends the rest of his miserable life in prison, Aristus Aug 2014 #34
He should stay there until he leaves with a toe tag. hifiguy Aug 2014 #36
 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
3. 34 years...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:30 PM
Aug 2014

Trust me, NO ONE was more crushed on the morning of December 9, 1980 upon hearing the news. I was too young to be an original Beatles fan (I was 15 in 1980), but I grew up hearing my older siblings crank their albums. That made me a Beatlemaniac by the late 70's.

But, 34 years for a murder committed while mentally ill may be a bit much.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
5. He was NOT mentally ill. He is a sociopath.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:40 PM
Aug 2014

And has been deemed still dangerous to others. He killed for kicks. Should we let Manson out, too?

 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
9. I cannot say...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:46 PM
Aug 2014

...as I am not a professional who deals with mental illness or criminal matters.

That said, Manson killed several people 45 years ago. Chapman killed one. Regardless of either's capacity to kill more or less at the time, the fact remains that Chapman killed one person 34 years ago.

If you have access to both of their medical/correctional records and can lend a professional opinion on both, please let us know.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
29. The records are out there.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 10:44 PM
Aug 2014

And the Parole Board determined that he is still dangerous. I agree with them. He killed for kicks and shits and giggles and recognition. He got it.

I'm not arguing with your position on mental health. The last really nasty murder we had here was an obviously psychopathic individual who slaughtered (literally) a mental health nurse who was escorting him, unrestrained, to a neighboring facility and a dental appointment. He went to a better facility. She went to a grave.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
41. I was going to point that out.
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 04:59 PM
Aug 2014

At least I don't think Manson killed anyone.

He was just a very scary man with the power to influence what had been seemingly normal kids to do shockingly evil things.

GReedDiamond

(5,299 posts)
6. Chapman's lawyers put forth an insanity defense...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:42 PM
Aug 2014

...but Chapman rejected that defense and entered a guilty plea with the court.

As a result, he has been imprisoned ever since, and prison is where he should stay until he's dead, IMO.

Sorry, but I cannot find any sympathy for Chapman, and I do not feel he deserves to ever be freed, for any reason.

 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
15. Do you feel the same way about John Hinkley?
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:04 PM
Aug 2014

The crimes took place 15 months apart and the circumstances are very similar. One outcome was different that the other, but both could've gone either way.

GReedDiamond

(5,299 posts)
19. Apparently Hinckley has already been allowed out...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:27 PM
Aug 2014

...for 17 day visits, each month, to his mother's house.

Here is a HuffPost article about that.

Unlike Chapman, Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

Hinckley has supposedly been free of his mental illness for "decades" - see the end of the HuffPost article linked above.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but, I do not believe that the Chapman/Hinckley cases are comparable.

GReedDiamond

(5,299 posts)
24. I have to agree with raven mad's post #5, above...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:43 PM
Aug 2014

...who comments that Chapman was a sociopath, not necessarily mentally ill.

In Hinckley's case, having been judged not guilty by insanity, he was committed to a hospital where he received decades of therapy for his illness.

If it's true that his mental illness has been in recession for decades, as Hinckley's attorney asserts, than it would seem reasonable to start letting him out, under the conditions set forth by the court.

I would not choose to associate with him, though, if the "opportunity" came up.

kwolf68

(7,365 posts)
8. But, 34 years for a murder committed while mentally ill may be a bit much.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:44 PM
Aug 2014

Are you fucking kidding me?

He took away a man's life...Lennon may still be here today writing great songs and inspiring a new generation. We don't know what John could have accomplished.

Chapman can burn in fuckng hell.
 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
13. A rather emotional response...
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:49 PM
Aug 2014

...and, in all fairness, that response might be my own, but my mentor John Lennon taught me to look towards love and forgiveness when faced with anger and hate. Think to yourself... WWJLD?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
17. I am certainly no fan of Chapman.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:22 PM
Aug 2014

But should the penalty for murder be higher when the victim is a creative genius than if the victim works on a factory production line or is homeless?

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
25. Nope. It should not. Murder is murder.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:51 PM
Aug 2014

Legal defense is tricky. Should Manson have been given an out because he is a psychopath? Nope. He didn't plead that way, though.

I wish, however, that there were NO victims of selfish, self-involved, uncaring sociopaths out for their own gratification and ego, like Mark David Chapman.

And when he dies, I'll pee on his grave. Sorry. He murdered my childhood/adulthood hero.

petronius

(26,581 posts)
18. I agree - if he's legitimately a danger to others, then that's one thing. But in
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:23 PM
Aug 2014

this case it seems possible that the identity/status of the victim is carrying undue weight, and to the extent that that happens, it's a shame...

 

conservaphobe

(1,284 posts)
37. If he wants out sooner, he can die.
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 12:34 PM
Aug 2014

That's the point of a life sentence.

No murderer should never have a chance at parole.

RunAwayGranny

(12 posts)
4. Right where he belongs!
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:32 PM
Aug 2014

Good! He's right where he belongs. He needs to stay there 'til he leaves in a pine box.

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
30. Welcome to DU, RunAwayGranny!
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 10:47 PM
Aug 2014

We argue about everything; I'd opt for cremation so that his remains are GONE.

DinahMoeHum

(21,737 posts)
7. Good. He's a fucking nothingburger.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 08:43 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

You can bet your ass Yoko and Sean will never ever consent to turning him loose on society, because if he were to show a hair of his a-hole outside of prison, well, let's just say there are bounty hunters out there.

 

unreadierLizard

(475 posts)
16. DU is very forgiving of mentally ill murderers
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:13 PM
Aug 2014

Until they kill someone they love, then they want them locked up and/or executed for life.

The great double standard. "I'm against harsh punishments EXCEPT FOR YOU YOU KILLED JOHN LENON I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE MENTALLY ILL ROT FOREVER YAAAY oh no that double murderer pedophile is being denied parole we have to help him!"

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
26. I don't forgive murder. Ever.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:53 PM
Aug 2014

I don't care if you're legally nuts, not legally nuts, pissed off, not pissed off, in a passion, in a rage, whatever. Mental illness is NO EXCUSE for murder.

Aristus

(66,096 posts)
34. I hope he spends the rest of his miserable life in prison,
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 01:20 AM
Aug 2014

muttering to himself: "It totally wasn't worth it, man..."

The shit people do when they don't think about the consequences...

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