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daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 12:54 PM Sep 2014

Does the Concept of Nerd-Shaming Make Nerd-Related Activities Impervious to Criticism?

Problem: things happen within the context of nerd-related activities that may attract criticism. If the nerd-related activity is also male-dominated, the reinforcement of misogyny might be one of those things that attract criticism. This doesn't mean all nerds are misogynists, but only that they are on the scene that is attracting criticism and may bear some responsibility for listening to and responding to that criticism.

Over the last few days there has been some debate as to how to convey that criticism when the system itself is structured to facilitate the suppression of claims of misogyny. In other places I've outlined the 3-step technique used at all male-dominated Internet "nerd spaces":
1) Adopt a superior rational/pseudo-neutral stance, and use cheap rhetorical tricks to get the woman to self-censor the criticism.
2) Bring in friends to mob/bully the woman. Attempt to make her feel outnumbered and unpopular - use the system's "voting" system if available.
3) If the woman can't be dominated, exploit obscure rules that can get her kicked out.

The purpose of all these is to except men in these "nerd spaces" from listening to/acting on criticism. And probably so they can have a good laugh about how they "conquered" the situation as well.

I've noticed another emerging trend over the last few days. Nerds are baffled and confused because they are still being criticized: they consider their failure to shut their critics up a challenge to their right to disagree, they regard anything they don't want to hear as a thread "hijack" even if they hijacked it themselves, and, of course, they are now framing criticism of how they evade discussion of misogyny as "nerd-shaming".

It took a few days for the threads on this topic to evolve. Now there is one simply a broad one on "shaming" - and I'm sure folks on DU will get behind that just like they would get behind complaints about "bullying".

Yes, shaming is lame form of argument. If you use it, your opponent is likely to ignore it. But more importantly, the people watching the argument will discredit the person who used shame to make the argument. And that's why these "nerds" - which are frankly men's rights activists trying to preserve their "right to misogyny" hiding behind the guise of nerds and making all nerds look bad - are trying to create this nerd-shaming victimization scenario now. This is part of the long game. They are trying to exempt certain "male preserves" from criticism.

Don't fall for it DU.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Does the Concept of Nerd-Shaming Make Nerd-Related Activities Impervious to Criticism? (Original Post) daredtowork Sep 2014 OP
What have I missed? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #1
I swear I know your writing style from somewhere, snooper2 Sep 2014 #2
Still fishing for whether this is a duplicate account? daredtowork Sep 2014 #12
I'm never wrong, I'm a GENIUS like 50% of other DU'ers snooper2 Sep 2014 #17
I have no idea what you are talking about Marrah_G Sep 2014 #3
What Marrah Said! ProfessorGAC Sep 2014 #23
Why even play their game? Populist_Prole Sep 2014 #4
Whether you're a nerd or not is not the issue daredtowork Sep 2014 #20
This is a big issue among "nerd girls" sweetloukillbot Sep 2014 #22
Don't forget all the Internet memes of fake nerd girls daredtowork Sep 2014 #24
The 1980s called, they want their word back. FSogol Sep 2014 #5
Hey, I didn't make up the concept. daredtowork Sep 2014 #11
Nerd-shaming disappeared years (maybe decades) ago. Most kids are proud to call themselves FSogol Sep 2014 #14
True daredtowork Sep 2014 #16
it is not a nerd/sports/frat issue. it is not a political party issue. it is not a religious/atheist seabeyond Sep 2014 #6
Exactly daredtowork Sep 2014 #9
+1000, yep, call them what you want smirkymonkey Sep 2014 #18
That's a problem, too daredtowork Sep 2014 #21
misogyny is wrong; anti-intellectualism is wrong. what's the problem? unblock Sep 2014 #7
Agenda? Action_Patrol Sep 2014 #8
I'm replying to a spate of other posts here. daredtowork Sep 2014 #10
Ok Action_Patrol Sep 2014 #13
LOL daredtowork Sep 2014 #15
I love The Big Bang Theory B2G Sep 2014 #19
 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
2. I swear I know your writing style from somewhere,
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:04 PM
Sep 2014

you are still new right? never been a DU'er?


Oh, and nerds are SOOO 20th century LOL, they are mostly called geeks now- It isn't 1985 anymore


daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
12. Still fishing for whether this is a duplicate account?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:23 PM
Sep 2014

See #3 tactic above.

And, by the way, you're wrong.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
4. Why even play their game?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:07 PM
Sep 2014

So many people in today's culture are such idiotic philistines that the word "nerd" is such a broad term and used too readily; as in: If your'e a hammer then everything looks like a nail.

To these dolts, a nerd is anyone non sports or pop-culture/celeb obsessed. Fuck them.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
20. Whether you're a nerd or not is not the issue
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:45 PM
Sep 2014

The majority of the college-educated population could probably be described as "nerdy" in some respect. In some circles, it's high praise.

The issue here is when a "nerd space" becomes a male preserve, men's rights activist can promote the right to conduct misogyny there, and then hide behind the concept of "nerd-shaming" to escape any critique. This dodge is a new one for me - but it's been trotted out a lot over the last 2 days, so it may be growing in importance.

sweetloukillbot

(10,816 posts)
22. This is a big issue among "nerd girls"
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:56 PM
Sep 2014

There is a lot of casual misogyny in comic stores, towards female cosplayers and especially female gamers. Attractive cosplayers are called fake nerds, comic clerks tell female customers where "the girly comics" are located, things like that.
I've even seen posts about how nerdy guys invented video game culture and women were intruding.
The recent attacks on the feminist gaming blogger and game creator are just the tip of the iceberg.
Read the "code of conduct" on any comicon website - there is a major problem with sexual harassment.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
24. Don't forget all the Internet memes of fake nerd girls
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 02:20 PM
Sep 2014

There's also the idea that when women are present, it's a trap to get men to buy stuff: hostesses and booth bunnies being paid to cater to male desires.

When I was in high school I wanted to be a comic book artist/writer. Wendy Pini was my idol as an independent woman who had done what she had wanted to do in life with her creative vision. At the time I was an outlier at my rural school because of my interests, but when I moved to an urban area I found camaraderie among both guys and girls because of my "nerd" interests.

Perhaps there has always been sexual objectification of women in this territory, but it seems to me the idea of the nerd space being a men's rights space is a relatively recent thing. And the sexual harassment is also part of a war to redefine that space as a male preserve.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
11. Hey, I didn't make up the concept.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:19 PM
Sep 2014

There was at least one post with that title yesterday, several similar theme posts, and it appeared in some comments.

I'm hoping to cut it off at the pass!

FSogol

(45,363 posts)
14. Nerd-shaming disappeared years (maybe decades) ago. Most kids are proud to call themselves
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:26 PM
Sep 2014

some version of nerd; science-nerd, comic book nerd, book nerd, whether they really fit the old definition of nerd at all. How many shows/movies have the nerd as hero?

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
16. True
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:38 PM
Sep 2014

Most of my own activities fall squarely in the "nerd" category.

The phenomenon going on here is men's rights activists claiming exemption for these spaces on the basis of "nerd-shaming". I didn't make this up - it was in the title of at least one post yesterday, and there were some related posts. I also suspect the general "shaming" post today was an heir to those posts from yesterday.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
6. it is not a nerd/sports/frat issue. it is not a political party issue. it is not a religious/atheist
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:08 PM
Sep 2014

issue

it is a man's issue.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
9. Exactly
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:13 PM
Sep 2014

Don't hide men's rights activism behind the "nerds" - that's what I'm saying.

Nerds are awesome. I consider myself one.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
21. That's a problem, too
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:56 PM
Sep 2014

Because not all men are trying to suppress observations of misogyny, and not all men are trying to preserve a right to conduct misogyny in "free" spaces.

So I suppose "nerd-shaming" is just a variety of the "man-shaming" argument intended to persuade all men that they are under attack so all men will shut down and not listen to the critique...? This was the whole #notallwomen - #notallmen debate carried on last summer, and I thought that resulted in a sort of breakthrough where men got that they had to listen to the issues without quibbling over whether they personally were being lumped in with "the misogynists" or not.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
7. misogyny is wrong; anti-intellectualism is wrong. what's the problem?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:09 PM
Sep 2014

no group should wield their victimization as a weapon to excuse victimizing any other group.

this applies to nerds as well as women as well as blacks or jews or irish people or differently-abled people.

that doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist against groups that may not make the big headlines. left-handers, roma, short people, nerds, etc. it just means that they have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

Action_Patrol

(845 posts)
8. Agenda?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:10 PM
Sep 2014

Where are you going with this? Your use of the word 'nerd' so much makes me want to paraphrase a line from the Princess Bride but I'll refrain.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
10. I'm replying to a spate of other posts here.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:17 PM
Sep 2014

My "agenda" is in my post: I don't think the concept of nerd-shaming should be used to exempt "nerd spaces" - such as gaming or comic books - from political critique.

Action_Patrol

(845 posts)
13. Ok
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:24 PM
Sep 2014

You mean trying to force socially inept shut ins from acting like what they are in an anonymous forum?

That's harder than herding kitties.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
15. LOL
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:33 PM
Sep 2014

I can't force anyone to do anything. But I can call out the behavior and personally refuse to kowtow to it.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
19. I love The Big Bang Theory
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 01:42 PM
Sep 2014

and I am well and truly fed up with the overuse of the word 'shaming'.

And there you have my contribution to this thread. You're welcome.

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