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Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:49 PM

 

Health care should be completely free or no more than $20 a month for incomes under 50k/year

Who agrees with me? The rich should just pay more. It is not fair that I have to pay $307 a month for basic bronze healthcare, which is more than a basic car payment. I can't afford my bills anymore. I used to hate people who go off the books to get free benefits, but now I understand why they do it.

I regret signing up. I should have just taken the fine. Sorry to sound like I'm wining, but with rent and everything it hurts.

34 replies, 2806 views

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Reply Health care should be completely free or no more than $20 a month for incomes under 50k/year (Original post)
Reter Oct 2014 OP
samsingh Oct 2014 #1
Reter Oct 2014 #3
upaloopa Oct 2014 #5
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #9
samsingh Oct 2014 #13
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #16
samsingh Oct 2014 #18
kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #28
Reter Oct 2014 #25
Logical Oct 2014 #2
Reter Oct 2014 #4
samsingh Oct 2014 #14
SheilaT Oct 2014 #6
onethatcares Oct 2014 #7
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #15
truedelphi Oct 2014 #20
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #10
CK_John Oct 2014 #11
SheilaT Oct 2014 #21
mmonk Oct 2014 #8
Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #12
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #17
truedelphi Oct 2014 #19
Puzzledtraveller Oct 2014 #22
moriah Oct 2014 #23
nitpicker Oct 2014 #32
moriah Oct 2014 #34
meow2u3 Oct 2014 #24
WinkyDink Oct 2014 #26
KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #27
PowerToThePeople Oct 2014 #29
Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #30
davidpdx Oct 2014 #31
DrDan Oct 2014 #33

Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:55 PM

1. it's far better than not having healthcare access at all

as someone who's rich i don't like class warfare

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Response to samsingh (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:57 PM

3. Easy to say for someone who can afford it

 

n/t

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Response to samsingh (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:17 PM

5. Class warfare doesn't exist.

Tax laws have been written to transfer wealth away from middle class and lower to the wealthy. It is only right to get back to fairness .

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Response to samsingh (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:21 PM

9. Paying a little more in taxes is not "class warfare."

No one wants to take all your money away, but those who've disproportionately benefited from society should disproportionately contribute to it.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:07 PM

13. no you're right.

i'm not sure the original poster is being serious. Part of it sounds like a setup. The poster also has low posts.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:11 PM

16. I gave him a rec out of sympathy for his situation, but you may be correct about that. n/t

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:13 PM

18. it just reads suspicious to me

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Response to samsingh (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 12:42 AM

28. Me, too. Some of these are literally cookie cutter set ups/flamebait.

 

Truly laughable in their lack of originality.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:59 PM

25. Low posters always get accused of being a troll or stirring up situations

 

At one time, everyone was low. I'm also not really a low poster at all, if you know what I mean. According to the IRS, I made $28,000. Seems low income if you ask me. $307 a month is unacceptable.

I won't start any more threads until I have 1,000 posts. That seems to be the threshold here.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:56 PM

2. Who is going to sponsor it? The government? The Canadian system or the UK system? nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:59 PM

4. Maybe I'm delusional, but I thought we were getting free health care in 1993/1994

 

It never passed, so I didn't think about it again until ACA. When that was signed into law, I never dreamed I'd have to pay more than a few dollars a week, and thought it would automatically come out of my check.

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Response to Reter (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:07 PM

14. did you write to the repugs in congress who scuttled the whole thing with their fear based ads?

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:38 PM

6. Basic health care needs to be completely free.

 

Medicare is a good model for that, and that a higher level of care can be purchased. Such as cataracts. Medicare will pay for the surgery and a basic implant. If you want one better than the basic, you're going to need to pay something out of your own pocket.

I honestly think that the biggest underlying factor in how expensive health care is in this country, quite aside from just how it's covered, is that over the years more and more ways of treating or curing more and more conditions have come about. Yes, there is a huge problem with some medications costing a small fortune, thousands of dollars a month. There are devices and surgeries that cost far more than they should. But we can also treat things we never could before, and no matter how you look at it, there are going to be greater costs involved.

I don't have a perfect answer. Companies that research new drugs or devise new kinds of surgeries need to be able to benefit from that. But how much? Maybe all such companies should be in effect public utilities, allowed to make a limited but reasonable profit. It's an idea, anyway.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:11 PM

7. another aspect of an answer

medical school should be free for those that graduate but upon graduation those folks should spend the same period of time working for the U.S. government providing healthcare to the citizens. When they finish their stretch they are home free. Of course while treating citizens they should receive a good income

For specialty areas there would be an increase in the amount of time serving the country.

it's a win/win. Jobs for the grads, no large medical school bills and healthcare for all of us at a reasonable rate.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:10 PM

15. Excellent idea

Medical training is, IIRC, about six years. So they do their training and then spend six years working for the USHS (for lack of a better name) and, at the end of that, their tuition fee loans get written off. While they're working for the USHS, they receive a decent upper-middle income. Not the lap of luxury but enough for a nice upper-mid life. New car every five years or so, couple of weeks holiday a year, that sort of life. That's how doctors here (UK) are paid.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:22 PM

20. That is a great idea, and one idea that would not be difficult to implement.

But it would allow for "competition" to those established hospitals and clinics, so it is out of the question, for the Greedy who are in charge.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:22 PM

10. Medicare for all. I agree.

And I'm one of the "lucky" ones - I was able to get a decent health plan for about $300 a month thanks to Obamacare.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:24 PM

11. Medicare is not free, they take out $104 of my Soc Sec .

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Response to CK_John (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:04 PM

21. That's for Part B.

 

Basic Medicare is free.

And there are not a lot of plans that give us what Medicare Part B gives us for a mere $104/month. If you have a Part D, there's more money for that. Plus, if last year's income tax return shows you earned above some amount, you pay more for both Parts B and D.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:18 PM

8. You must be young.

We were paying over $1,000 a month plus a $5450.00 co pay before insurance kicks in and pays part before "Obamacare". Our premiums are in the $300 to $400 range with a $5 co-pay with the ACA. Different worlds I suppose on what unaffordable is.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:07 PM

12. Not exactly "free" as such

but paid for by taxation in the usual fashion. The NHS here (UK) had been working fairly well for most people until the bastard scum Tories started privatizing it by stealth.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:12 PM

17. And we in the U.S. can only dream of an NHS of our own...

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:17 PM

19. Totally agree. Another web discussion forum has

up several discussions of how those who're not making even a survivable income have "the benefit' of now having insurance, but they cannot use that insurance due to the deductibles, co pays etc.

Even New York Times, usually rather benevelont to the Big Industries that put ads on its pages, has turned some sharp toothed reporters onto the issue of "Health Insurance is a great thing for us if it were not such a scam" --

Abby Goodnough and Robert Pear October 17, 2014

Unable to Meet the Deductible or the Doctor
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article


From this NYT's article:
Patricia Wanderlich got insurance through the Affordable Care Act this year, and with good reason: She suffered a brain hemorrhage in 2011, spending weeks in a hospital intensive care unit, and has a second, smaller aneurysm that needs monitoring. But her new plan has a $6,000 annual deductible, meaning that Ms. Wanderlich, who works part time at a landscaping company outside Chicago, has to pay for most of her medical services up to that amount. She is skipping this years brain scan and hoping for the best. To spend thousands of dollars just making sure it hasnt grown? said Ms. Wanderlich, 61. I dont have that money.

It gets worse:

About 7.3 million Americans are enrolled in private coverage through the Affordable Care Act marketplaces, and more than 80 percent qualified for federal subsidies to help with the cost of their monthly premiums. But many are still on the hook for deductibles that can top $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for families the trade-off, insurers say, for keeping premiums for the marketplace plans relatively low. The result is that some people no firm data exists on how many say they hesitate to use their new insurance because of the high out-of-pocket costs. Some $2,907 for an individual and $6,078 for a family.

SNIP

Ms. Wanderlich, who had suffered the brain hemorrhage, was even avoiding preventive care until last month, when she had to get a prescription renewed and her doctors office required her to be seen first. Grudgingly, she went for an annual physical exam on Sept. 12. She was relieved to learn that she owed only $30 for the visit; the provider billed her insurer more than $1,200. When the next open enrollment period begins on Nov. 15, Ms. Wanderlich said, she will probably switch to a plan with a narrower network of doctors and a smaller deductible. It will probably mean losing her specialists, she said, but at this point she is resigned. A $6,000 deductible thats just staggering, she said. I never thought Id say this, but how many minutes until I get Medicare?
########

So a woman who has decent specialists will probably be giving them up as otherwise she can't afford her premiums or the deductibles. And given her condition, this should be a crime. But since what this really is about is how the monies we poorer folks are spending, with very little given us in return, as we can't afford to use the product due to the out-of-pocket costs, then those monies augment the abiities of the richer people to have the services they get through our pain and suffering, so what we poorer folks are dealing with all gets swept under the rug.

I was reading some article the other day, in one of the Big City newspapers, and the campaign contributions to candidates of both parties that come to them via the Big Health Insurers are staggering amounts of money. So where does the Health Insurance Industry get these monies to spend on buying up the politial process? Well, there was a small discussion about how much the four or five biggest insurers in California receive from premiums, let's call tht X amount. And the amount those same Big Insurers then paid out for the treatments and health care of the insured was 1/6th of X!

Granted there are many other legitimate expenses for Big Insurers. There are salaries, rent for buildings, maintenance costs, etc. But I also watch Shark Tank, and those money experts would laugh themselves sick if they heard anyone say that there was very little profit left in a 6 to 1 gross income to expense margin scheme! And when I hear people here on DU exclaiming that the ACA prevents the Big Insurers from having too much money left over (what is the stipulation 80% to 20% ?? with no more than 20% profits?) these CEO's simply see to it that their brother in law comes in and "remodels" something or other, and there are built in kickbacks as part of that remodel. Any facility manager who has set it up so that the hospital will charge parents for three circumcisions for one baby boy will certianly know how to cook the books on their expense to profit arrangements!













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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:18 PM

22. It's going to get worse

much worse.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:31 PM

23. I pay 82.94 for a silver plan with a $1200 max out of pocket.

Admittedly, I make about 20k.

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Response to moriah (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 05:11 AM

32. You are the sort of person the ACA was designed for

I volunteer at tax time with VITA (volunteer income tax assistance), incomes of less than about $52 K.

From my reading of the draft Form 8965:

People can apply for an exemption from "the fine" if "minimum essential" health care coverage would cost more than 8% of household income.

It's easy to calculate this if the employer offers coverage.

BUT most of the VITA clients (if here legally) would qualify for premium tax credits if the only insurance option was to buy an ACA plan, so "does the net of Bronze minus premium tax credits exceed 8%?"

I expect the VITA tax offices to put in extra hours on this issue.

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Response to nitpicker (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 01:18 PM

34. Yes, and I'm grateful for it.

The specialist copay is rather high -- $50 -- but that and my meds equals a little over $150 a month. I should end up with free health care next year by about August (was on Medicaid through the ACA until my disability hit -- thank you Arkansas for expanding Medicaid!

BCBS was the cheapest Silver plan available, the rest were more expensive for a higher out of pocket cost.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:25 PM

24. K&R for fairness

I strongly agree that health care should cost no more than $20/mo. if you make $50K/yr or less. It should be on a sliding scale, including mental health care.

MH care should be on a 100% par with care for diseases that strike the rest of the body.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 12:01 AM

26. It should already be covered by taxes, just like our drones, bombs, and carriers are.

 

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 12:04 AM

27. You sound like a friggin' Commie! (JK, JK! :)

 

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 12:48 AM

29. Sometimes it is cheaper to be unemployed or very low wage

 

unless you are well above median income. No need to burn out on a lower end job barely making it. Take a few dollars an hour less and get gov assistance. Fuck the rich bastards.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 01:00 AM

30. I think means testing for any benefits is a mistake somewhat unique to America

Public schools are universally supported by just about everyone. So is Medicare and Social Security. When benefits are seen as a social program for the less fortunate - they loose their base of popular support among ordinary people which is why workers comp and unemployment benefits are widely popular but public welfare is not. Europeans who supported social reforms such as universal healthcare learned a long time ago that if you want a program to have full public support it has to be for everyone. Besides, the conservative may actually have something of a valid point in suggesting that it is counterproductive to penalize upward mobility. Except they would deny it to everyone rather than proved it for everyone.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 01:18 AM

31. I agree and I have no problem paying something for health care

I also disagree with those who say it should be free. Nothing is free. You can have no monthly premiums, but the money has to come from somewhere. The somewhere would be taxes.

South Korea has a great system of universal health care. We pay based on our income level. Those who are unemployed or elderly can get health insurance for cheap. I pay about $110 for both my wife and I (about $55 each). I can go to any clinic or hospital I want to at any time.

It's hard to argue for a completely free system when it in fact is not free.

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Response to Reter (Original post)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 05:13 AM

33. basic healthcare provided free to EVERYONE

if you want something more, then you pay for it.

It should simply be an entitlement for everyone, regardless of worth.

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