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HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 02:35 PM Mar 2015

I gave my child autism, by Juniper Russo.

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/03/i-gave-my-child-autism.html

"It wasn’t because of vaccines. It wasn’t because of tuna. It wasn’t because of formula. It wasn’t because of Tylenol, ultrasounds, antidepressants, Pitocin, tobacco, television, or pesticides.

How do I know? Because she wasn’t exposed to any of these things when she was first diagnosed with developmental delays.

...

“Maybe,” she said, pursing her lips carefully and jotting something down in her notebook, “You might want to consider getting yourself an evaluation. Most autistic people of your generation weren’t diagnosed, especially if they were verbal.”

...

But it wasn’t because of something I did wrong. It wasn’t because of her shots, or her environment, or my parenting. It was because of the little chains of carbon inside all of our bloodstreams, the chromosomes my kids inherited from me and only me. It was because we have a very special family, and it’s full of brain problems and love.

..."



-------------------------------------------------------------


A beautifully written, and very powerful piece.

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I gave my child autism, by Juniper Russo. (Original Post) HuckleB Mar 2015 OP
There is a very strong genetic link/element in autism spectrum disorders. hifiguy Mar 2015 #1
I've seen a lot of silly woo in my lifetime. Monsanto is more dangerous than all of the woo in the Zorra Mar 2015 #2
I'm not really sure why you found the need to post this rant on this thread. HuckleB Mar 2015 #3
I'm with you n/t SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #4
Because Environmental Pollutants May Precipitate Genetic Disorders KittyWampus Mar 2015 #13
thanks. Voice for Peace Mar 2015 #19
Then why is Autism virtually unknown outside the western world? jeff47 Mar 2015 #22
First you'd have to indicate what places outside the western world are more polluted. KittyWampus Mar 2015 #24
Yeah, China's such a backwards place they'd never understand something as complex as Autism. jeff47 Mar 2015 #25
Autism in China A Silent Epidemic KittyWampus Mar 2015 #28
That's fiction. proverbialwisdom Mar 2015 #42
Ah, cherry picked studies. HuckleB Mar 2015 #33
Yes but you know what has to be there for a chemical to trigger a genetic disorder? LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #41
And, in a more mobile and affluent world... HuckleB Mar 2015 #43
That is one of the top 10 dumbest things I've seen this week. hobbit709 Mar 2015 #5
This doesn't belong here Warpy Mar 2015 #6
It does belong here because the pollutants that are around us impact our health and DNA KittyWampus Mar 2015 #15
Anti-Monsanto hysteria has been linked to out-of-place proselytizing Orrex Mar 2015 #8
You know....as the mother of a child with Asperger's, I am truly msanthrope Mar 2015 #9
It isn't uninformed. Science does indicate that environmental toxin/pollutants KittyWampus Mar 2015 #14
In general, science is moving away from that being much of a factor, if any. HuckleB Mar 2015 #34
Science indicates environmental factors play a part yes... Lancero Mar 2015 #45
WTF? etherealtruth Mar 2015 #11
Because Monsanto! hughee99 Mar 2015 #12
Breast feeding circumcised pit bulls at the Olive Garden. awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #16
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #31
Thanks. I'm not sure why your post made so many people cranky but I am in complete Voice for Peace Mar 2015 #20
... NuclearDem Mar 2015 #40
I can look back on my own life Warpy Mar 2015 #7
Looking at my family tree, "Autistic Spectrum" is almost certainly a dominant gene... hunter Mar 2015 #21
I'm not entirely convinced medicalizing it did high functioning people a lot of good Warpy Mar 2015 #32
Well, a diagnosis and modern meds have been somewhat helpful to me. hunter Mar 2015 #38
A lot of Juniper's description fit me Warpy Mar 2015 #39
While I share Zorra's hatred of Monsanto... gregcrawford Mar 2015 #10
Thank you. HuckleB Mar 2015 #36
K&R awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #17
Um, no. DNA doesn't work like that. You can inherit genes but DNA Is not absolutely deterministic. KittyWampus Mar 2015 #18
Yes, DNA works like that. jeff47 Mar 2015 #23
LOL! You are claiming I said something different. Round up in the environment certainly may impact KittyWampus Mar 2015 #26
Again, those changes in expression are also controlled by genetics. jeff47 Mar 2015 #27
LOL! The mother is saying her genes determined absolutely that her child had autism. KittyWampus Mar 2015 #29
And the way those environmental factors play a role is by affecting other genes. jeff47 Mar 2015 #30
Umm. Epigenetics has become one of the classic terms most misunderstand. HuckleB Mar 2015 #35
A recent study shows genetics are responsiable 74 to 98% of the time. Lancero Mar 2015 #46
That essay is one of the tenderest and most hopeful I have read in years Hekate Mar 2015 #37
Thank you. MadrasT Mar 2015 #44

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
2. I've seen a lot of silly woo in my lifetime. Monsanto is more dangerous than all of the woo in the
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 03:30 PM
Mar 2015

world combined. As are many other for profit entities who wish to maximize profits by producing and hawking toxic substances, and engage in practices which clearly damage the environment.

Care to share a pint of cold, refreshing Roundup?

Toxic environmental pollution is deadly. Corporations and their shills would have us believe it is just fine to spill and spread toxic substances all over the planet. They would have us believe that it is just fine to ingest toxins, chemicals, and untested hybridized biologically altered substances invented 30 years ago.

Why do they do this?

They do it for MONEY. People lie, spread information to deceive others, steal, and kill for MONEY every day single day, maybe hundreds of thousands of people do this every day, maybe tens of millions do it every day.

Am I going to believe you, or what I see?

Yes, autism may very well be, primarily, the result of inherited genes. It's very possible.

But we don't know if these genetic anomalies are the result of DNA damaged by environmental toxins 60 or 100, or 20 years ago, and then passed down as a mutation from parents to children.

I have a fair amount of experience with a very large number of people over the years who have massive developmental challenges. Some we know are the result of genetics. Some we don't know. Autism, we don't know. One thing that really pisses me of is people putting out information claiming they know what causes these disabilities, when, in fact, they don't know, and there is not nearly enough evidence to conclude that they do "know".

This goes for the purveryors of silly woo, "scientists" mostly concerned with furthering their careers and notoriety by pushing their studies or theories, and particularly internet propagandists who work for corporations, who get paid to lie, by, and for their corporate masters.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. Because Environmental Pollutants May Precipitate Genetic Disorders
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:04 PM
Mar 2015

Autism spectrum disorder: interaction of air pollution with the MET receptor tyrosine kinase gene

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24240654

Environmental toxicants and autism spectrum disorders: a systematic review

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n2/full/tp20144a.html

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
19. thanks.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:27 PM
Mar 2015

environmental toxins fucked up my body and thus to some extent my life.
Some pre-birth, a lot through earliest infancy, childhood and beyond.
Each person is utterly unique in causes, effects, sensitivities, and so on.
But there is no question that these toxins play a big role in autism.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
22. Then why is Autism virtually unknown outside the western world?
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 06:43 PM
Mar 2015

There's a hell of a lot of places that are much more polluted than the western world. Yet autism is virtually unknown in these places.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
24. First you'd have to indicate what places outside the western world are more polluted.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 06:48 PM
Mar 2015

Then you'd have to indicate said area has equal capacity to recognize and diagnose autism.

Even many western countries are having higher and higher rates of autism as ability to recognize the condition improves and stigma associated with it lessens.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
42. That's fiction.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:15 AM
Mar 2015
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg66778/html/CHRG-112hhrg66778.htm

House Hearing, 112 Congress
From the U.S. Government Printing Office


[center]GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES ON AUTISM--A GROWING PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS

=======================================================================

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,
AND HUMAN RIGHTS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

__________

MAY 31, 2011[/center]

The Honorable Christopher H. Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey, and chairman, Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, and Human Rights, presiding.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o'clock
p.m., in room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon.
Christopher H. Smith (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Smith. Good afternoon, everyone. And welcome to our
witnesses and those who are joining us for this first ever
congressional hearing examining the magnitude and the severity
of the global public health crisis of autism.

<>

I would note to my colleagues that on a trip to Lagos in
Nigeria in 2007, which was designed to look at an issue that I
also work very vigorously on--human trafficking--while there I
met with Mr. Chiti Azuwa, the parent of an autistic child. Mr.
Azuwa is the Executive Director of the
Public-Private Partnership Resource Centre in Abuja, and
his wife, Dr. Doris Azuwa, is the Executive Director of the OLG
Health Foundation and Autism Centre in Port Harcourt. They told
me of the large numbers of Nigeria, children suffering with
autism, and the lack of government or other supports.


<>

There are a wide range of autism prevalence figures between
countries and individual studies. Here in the United States,
CDC estimates that close to 1 percent of the population is
affected by NASD. Autism Speaks, the Nation's largest autism
science and advocacy organization, describes a scientific
consensus that 1 percent of the world's population, or some 67
million people--I repeat, an estimated 67 million people--are
affected with some form of ASD. According to the World Health
Organization--and I will include their testimony and hopefully
at a later date they will testify as well--but in their
submission they note that ``tens of millions in Africa are
affected by autism.'' Tens of millions.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
33. Ah, cherry picked studies.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:54 PM
Mar 2015

That have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

Please don't act like there is a justification for that post.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
41. Yes but you know what has to be there for a chemical to trigger a genetic disorder?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:17 AM
Mar 2015

The genetic disorder.

They are perfectly capable of popping up without environmental interference, too. Because they're genetic.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
43. And, in a more mobile and affluent world...
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 11:58 AM
Mar 2015

... the fact that people of similar personalities might find each other and then have kids has probably increased, making the genetic combination even more likely. I'm not saying that even plays a role, but the science isn't much better in regard to the assertions about other environmental factors.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
15. It does belong here because the pollutants that are around us impact our health and DNA
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:06 PM
Mar 2015

and the health and DNA expressed in our offspring.

So any mother saying she gave her child autism is not considering what environmental factors may have caused a particular gene to be expressed.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
9. You know....as the mother of a child with Asperger's, I am truly
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 04:08 PM
Mar 2015

attempting to stifle my initial and primal urge to tell you where to stick a cold, refreshing pint of Roundup.

Instead, I'm going to only wish that you delete your uninformed and inappropriate rant on an otherwise thoughtful thread.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
14. It isn't uninformed. Science does indicate that environmental toxin/pollutants
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:05 PM
Mar 2015

may indeed precipitate the expression of genetic disorders like Autism.

I posted two links above.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
34. In general, science is moving away from that being much of a factor, if any.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:56 PM
Mar 2015

It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise, and it is ridiculous to pretend that that post is justified at all.

Lancero

(2,984 posts)
45. Science indicates environmental factors play a part yes...
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:07 PM
Mar 2015

But what specific factors those are have yet to be determined, and even then recent studies are showing that genetics - and not environmental factors - are by far the main reason for autism.

http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/03/17/autism-genetics-study/20139/

Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #16)

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
20. Thanks. I'm not sure why your post made so many people cranky but I am in complete
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:36 PM
Mar 2015

agreement.

When you think about the fact that the eggs of human offspring
are produced inside the body of the maternal grandmother,
there's a long period of time during which environmental toxins
do their damage, imprint their information. How/if it translates into
genetics, I don't know -- but I do believe that our own DNA evolves
with our life experiences and environmental influences, so a bodily
flaw, for example the effects of mercury, or pcbs, over long time
-- a brain malfunction becomes a future genetic feature.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
7. I can look back on my own life
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 03:53 PM
Mar 2015

and pick out a lot of people I knew who were likely on the spectrum. They were just labeled odd or clumsy or sometimes brilliant but a little over focused on one thing. There was no diagnosis of a full spectrum of autism, only the dreaded "mental retardation" for kids who were nonverbal and largely non functional.

Autistic people who were brilliant or just odd were usually my friends.

They're only now discovering that high functioning autism is expressed very differently in girls than it is in boys. I suppose now we'll see another spike in cases that will set off the alarmists.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
21. Looking at my family tree, "Autistic Spectrum" is almost certainly a dominant gene...
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 06:04 PM
Mar 2015

... similar to your observations. Everything from obsessive, extremely focused math and engineering types to people who were not and are not fully functional in ordinary society. I used to wonder why my great aunt treated me a little differently than other kids. Now I realize it was because I was one of the odd clumsy obsessive kids. She knew, but she couldn't name it, and her generation didn't talk about it. My grandfather, her brother, passed as an eccentric and occasionally brilliant engineer, but she had two siblings who were not fully functional in ordinary society, supported and often protected by family. Even though they were still living when I was a kid, I was never introduced to them. Such family secrets were "kept in the closet," very similar to how homosexuality was hidden.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
32. I'm not entirely convinced medicalizing it did high functioning people a lot of good
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:24 PM
Mar 2015

I think it was a bit easier to be a brilliant oddball than it is to be a high functioning autistic. The bullying in school and even after it hasn't stopped. However, it's better than blaming Mom for the fact that her kid was a little weird and having social problems in junior high school.

Still, for years, it was hidden, denied, glossed over, and simply taken for granted as a variation in human personality.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
38. Well, a diagnosis and modern meds have been somewhat helpful to me.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:25 PM
Mar 2015

It certainly explained a lot of my childhood.

"Clumsy," oh God yes, I was banned on the swings and "monkey bars" because I was a danger to myself and others. I wasn't even allowed to climb on the awesome geodesic playground dome, one of the first in the nation. But as a consolation prize, I guess, I did get to shake hands and have a conversation with Buckminster Fuller a few years later.

I was hyperlexic too. I was reading well, probably better than many sixth graders, when I entered kindergarten. I don't remember not being able to read. But I do remember not talking. While the other kids were reading about "Dick and Jane" I was sent out to the speech therapist, up until the third grade. I also had a "posture and movement" class, as they called it. Some of the kids in that class with me were a lot more messed up then I was, with tremors and other involuntary movements and stuff, one I remember I can now identify as Tourette syndrome. But no matter how bad I'm fidgeting or rocking or whatever, it never feels involuntary to me.





Warpy

(110,913 posts)
39. A lot of Juniper's description fit me
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:36 PM
Mar 2015

but I'll still take "oddball" over anything else. Early reading, check, freakish math ability and memorizing numbers, check, clumsy, check, late walker, check. Still, there are just some of us who prefer to spend our time alone with our noses in books rather than trying to play team sports we're ill suited for.

"Introvert" suits me fine.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
10. While I share Zorra's hatred of Monsanto...
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 04:19 PM
Mar 2015

... casting aspersions on HuckleB's piece is just mean-spirited and unwarranted.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
36. Thank you.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:59 PM
Mar 2015

I'm working to have more constructive discussions, so that was a frustrating response to see.

Take care.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
18. Um, no. DNA doesn't work like that. You can inherit genes but DNA Is not absolutely deterministic.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:19 PM
Mar 2015

It is probablistic.

What is epigenetics, and what does it have to do with autism?


https://www.autismspeaks.org/node/123021

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
23. Yes, DNA works like that.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 06:48 PM
Mar 2015

Epigenetic effects are largely caused by genetics. "Turning up" production of a protein in response to environmental factors is controlled by genetics. It isn't turned up by magic Monsanto demons.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
26. LOL! You are claiming I said something different. Round up in the environment certainly may impact
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 06:51 PM
Mar 2015

the expression of certain genetic traits.

I have provided several links to scientific studies already in this thread.

Edit- and NO, DNA is not deterministic. It's probability.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
27. Again, those changes in expression are also controlled by genetics.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 07:04 PM
Mar 2015
and NO, DNA is not deterministic. It's probability.

You really don't understand what you're talking about. But your lack of understanding tells the tale you want to tell, so charge ahead, right?

Transcription is affected by environmental effects - you make more insulin when you have more glucose. That regulation is not done by magic. It's done by other genes. The whole of the organism is still deterministic. What's changed is we've discovered more feedback loops that are part of that.

To say "DNA is probability" is to say that if you expose a genetically identical clone to the exact same environment, you will get different results. That is not the case. It it were, we could not detect epigenetic effects. They'd look like random noise.

Varying environmental conditions can get you different results, but the same genes and same environment always produce the same results.

This fits perfectly with the studies you linked, btw.
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
29. LOL! The mother is saying her genes determined absolutely that her child had autism.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 07:08 PM
Mar 2015

Environmental factors can play a role.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
30. And the way those environmental factors play a role is by affecting other genes.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 07:16 PM
Mar 2015

To make this simpler, let's pretend there's an autism gene. It is normally turned off by the effects of another gene. But if you are exposed to enough Monsanto brand Satan Piss, it turns on in your eggs.

It's still deterministic - the same result happens from the same inputs. Same genes, same Monsanto Satan Piss, same result.
It's still genetic - it's just the regulation gene that is now important instead of the autism gene itself.

How could the mother's genes change that? Well, first she could not have this autism gene. Second, she could have a mutation of the regulation gene that makes a lower dose of Monsanto Satan Piss have this effect. Or she could have a mutation that makes her regulatory gene immune to Monsanto Satan Piss.

Lancero

(2,984 posts)
46. A recent study shows genetics are responsiable 74 to 98% of the time.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
Mar 2015
http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/03/17/autism-genetics-study/20139/

You can argue probability all you like, though when the chances are this high then it is correct to say that it is determinate.

Hekate

(90,202 posts)
37. That essay is one of the tenderest and most hopeful I have read in years
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:23 PM
Mar 2015

Thank you so much for bringing it here.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
44. Thank you.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:02 PM
Mar 2015

I was diagnosed at age 47. And it is clear now that my mother is also on the spectrum, though at age 72 she is not likely to ever pursue a formal diagnosis. I suspectmy grandmother was, too.

When I was a child in the 60s and 70s, it just wasn't on the radar, especially for girls.

There are loads of undiagnosed adults around. I remain unconvinced that autism spectrum disorders are increasing, it seems just as likely that we are getting better at recognizing it.

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